[Closed] Gove goes.

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

I seem remember them holding Blunkett hostage, walking out on Morris and Clarke was booed and hissed and called the worst ever.

so no more interviews of Hague by Reeta Chakrabarti in Benghazi 🙁

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

Probably not, as they keep trying to make themselves and their governments look good by pandering to populist ideas about how schools should be run, whilst completely ignoring the people who actually understand education and the kids.

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

I know you hate him and I didnt agree with much of what he did but Balls didnt seem completely awful.
You have to also remember that Teachers Unions are not teachers and most teachers are only in a union for legal cover.

[quote=convert ]Whispers it quietly - quite liked Ken too - especially his constant vocal pro stance for Europe within a party pretty anti the idea.

+1, despite disagreeing with him on Europe.

Ken seemed to be of the 'standup for what I believe in - but have room for compromise' type.

Ken will go back to flogging fags to Chinese children.

I think the broad thrust of what Gove was doing was the policy of the Government. I would imagine the new incumbent will try and be a bit more diplomatic if for no other reason than the election is due soon, no point rocking the boat. I believe he lost his job due mainly to his ridiculous public spat with Theresa May, those anti-gore here should bear that in mind, little in reality will change.

FWIW I think politicians interfering in education to the extent they do is a travesty. Education needs less politicians (none in fact) trying to "make their mark"

Hague told the PM he was going to stand down as an MP last year so he's effectively retired. he stayed around long enough to do the glamour bit with Ms Tomb Raider and now he's off.

I guess he can spend more time on his writing: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-I-know-about-teaching/dp/1492912417/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Ken was affable but he did sell fags to kids without any moral issue

On balance it is a no from me as he was principled on Europe and little else.

he also liked jazz....shudders

I have to say I'm very disappointed,read the thread title,was just tying my dancing shoes,when I heard on the radio he'd only been sacked.Paah.

Ken was affable but he did sell fags to kids without any moral issue

Well, it makes a nice change for Tory MP's to be selling fags to kids rather than k...

(sorry, had to be done)

This is Dave's election mode reshuffle, freeing up the mouth pieces for some PR...

Sounds like they want to use Gove as a bit of a spokesman, more than likely to attract some of the swivel eyed floaters back from UKIP in time for the election...

the chief whip role is just to keep him [I]sort of[/I] in the cabinet/senior sounding role, without any actual remit beyond being "Head boy", post election He'll want a proper ministerial role again, or else He'll most likely start sharpening his dagger...

Expect to see Gove saying all sorts of things on all sorts of topics, while Hague trys to calm things down in his wake, and trys to make the Tories seem more reasonable...

I just hope she can pull a u turn on the scraping of A*-G grades which is completely fit for purpose and didn't need changing.

It's good to see she is wanting to pull the free school idea too.

Things can only get better for teachers with Gove elsewhere.

[i]It's good to see she is wanting to pull the free school idea too.[/i]

have you got a link for that?

chilled76 - Member

It's good to see she is wanting to pull the free school idea too.

are you talking about Liz Truss, I thought she was very neo-liberal and all for the private sector taking over public sector roles?

Hagues gone. He was the only one out of the lot of them who came across as an actual human being, and looked like he might actually know what he was doing

+ another. Awful leader though.

he also liked jazz....shudders

Oi! 👿

I know you hate him and I didnt agree with much of what he did but Balls didnt seem completely awful.

He was pretty crap. A big difference was that there was more money in education - schools weren't being run on third world budgets.

are you talking about Liz Truss

Nope Nicky Morgan takes over from Gove... whoever she might be.

Hagues gone.

Not quite yet, He's been made Leader of the Commons, He is stepping down at the next election though and Dave needs him free to face the press in the run up to that, He's pretty good with the press...

TBH I think a few of the new ministers are probably just there to keep other's seats warm...

ninfan - Member

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

Probably not but this is the closest they've come to throwing one into a volcano for a while.

cb - Member

Gove did what he thought was right without giving the slightest hint of a toss about what people thought of him for doing so. We need more people like that in politics

Little bit from column A but it's nice when they also take advice from experts and don't just presume that what they think is right, is actually right. So there's probably a sliding scale and a lot of politicians could do with being a bit more Gove. But not a lot more.

There's a piece in the Telegraph from one of his supporters saying that the latest teachers strike action was the last nail in his political coffin as far as support from Cameron was concerned.

"The most effective piece of industrial action in this parliament"

So a one day strike can have a positive effect 🙂

[img] [/img]

He did seem as if he formulated 'policy' based on whatever had popped into his head as he woke up that morning. Without feeling the need to consult anyone else, or seek any advice on whether it was a good idea, or indeed if it was actually viable

Today I shall scrap the entire countries exam system and replace it with something else. I'm not sure what yet, but if I come up with something, then its bound to be absolutely brilliant.

And from now on, children will only be allowed to read the books that I've got on my shelf in the front room

[i]from now on, children will only be allowed to read the books that I've got on my shelf in the front room[/i]

Although that's one up on the prisons minister who arbitrarily decided that prisoners shouldn't be allowed to have books at all. They put idea in their heads or something.

This shower really are a bunch of utter and complete ****-wits, aren't they? Trouble is; you look at the other lot and get the distinct feeling that though maybe not in the same level for gleeful nastiness, they've got the potential to be even more incompetent

[i] they've got the potential to be even more incompetent [/i]

I'd take some comfort if I thought the poor results of their policies were by accident rather than design though...

[img] [/img]

Indeed. This lots **** ups are a result of their blindly evangelical worship of all things 'The Market' does, without letting anything as inconvenient as facts getting in the way, or it being tempered by anything as pointless and irrelevant as empathy or compassion.

And from now on, children will only be allowed to read the books that I've got on my shelf in the front room

😆

Brilliant.

Indeed. This lots **** ups are a result of their blindly evangelical worship of all things 'The Market' does,

Nope. If that were the case, failed banks would have been allowed to fail, instead of having squillions of taxpayer's lolly shovelled at them.

They are fans of Corporatism, not Capitalism.

Fair point Wopster

It was a completely exaggerated faith in the market which caused things to go tits up. "Light-touch regulation" was all that was needed they claimed.

But this exaggerated faith in the market wasn't restricted to the Tories in the Conservative Party it was also shared by those in the Labour Party.

They are big fans of capitalism, but even the biggest fan of capitalism recognises that the market can never function satisfactorily without government intervention.

That is why the most important political office after prime minister is almost always finance minister. Far from having a minor role in government, as they sit back watching the market functioning freely, finance ministers across the world are constantly having to deal with a permanent state of crises.

On the question of Gove's demotion I'm somewhat puzzled as to why Cameron has decided that he should be the "Tory face on TV". Surely he must realise that the smuggest most slappable face in government probably isn't the best choice ?

So we are talking about a Minister of Education moving job and this gets confused with unbridled faith in markets. The clue is in the title and what he did that made him so unpopular. They love meddling in education, the lot of them. What has that got to do with markets or capitalism?

But teachers will never be forgotten for this one 😉 Gove fronting the election campaign. That means most days in the media. How could that happen??? Does CMD really reckon that he is a vote winner?

Loved the bird from the defence minister claiming that new job has nothing to do with her gender. Let's hope she understands her brief better than the reason for her appointment.

[quote=ernie_lynch ]On the question of Gove's demotion I'm somewhat puzzled as to why Cameron has decided that he should be the "Tory face on TV". Surely he must realise that the smuggest most slappable face in government probably isn't the best choice ?

You have to assume that even CMD isn't really that stupid, in which case there's something else going on here - most likely internal party politics I'd have thought given Gove's ambitions, maybe Dave is setting him up?

CMD has a long list of incredibly bad choices of people to keep close to him and he has suspect judgement IMHO.

He may actually just be that daft he has not realised just how hated Gove is. he is this generations Portillio

Gove is not a credible risk to his leadership[ but possibly arrogant enough to think he is] but GO is.

They are big fans of capitalism

Shame they don't act like it, then.

Loved the bird from the defence minister claiming that new job has nothing to do with her gender. Let's hope she understands her brief better than the reason for her appointment.

Indeed thm. I was pissing myself yesterday listening to Dave explain, in his usual face-smashingly patronising plummy way (like he's talking to a retarded 3 year old) how this showed how inclusive and representative of our great nation his new cabinet was. Yeah... right. We've spent four and a half years being ruled by a cabal of Eton and Bullingdon Club, White, over-privaledged, Upper middle class, male, London-centric mafia. And then less than a year before an election, with the last queens speech containing no legislation of any consequence, he appoints a couple of token women. I don't know if you've noticed it - he may have pointed it out - but one of them even has a northern regional accent. Whatever next?

He must think we've all just fallen out of a *ing tree. The condescending *!!!!

There's now 5 MP's working at the Department of (or is it for?) Education and they all went to private schools.

Very inclusive.

Initially I saw this as capitulation, but I've been reading some interesting counter arguments on this - that it [b]could[/b] be quite an intelligent move,

Argument is that much of the 'radical reform' is already done, (it was always going to be front loaded in the electoral cycle) and a disproportionate amount of the oppositions effort over the past years has been spent on attacking the people involved rather than the policies themselves, (good example being Gove)

by removing the controversial characters from the pubic arena, its the equivalent of pulling back your troops from the Seelowe Heights just before the Russian artillery bombardment - there's just no-one left to attack - its easy for Labour to jump up and down attacking Gove, but bloody difficult to attack Liz Truss or Penny Mordant, who have little baggage and are pretty uncontroversial - which of course means that Labour have to start talking about policies... and thats where their weaknesses really show up.

Not entirely convinced, but I can see an element of truth in it!

ninfan, you are quite correct here. Nothing will change in education the only difference is the new person will be less abrasive and make conciliatory noises whilst carrying on Goves work

ninfan I think you are falling for a bit of spin tbh.

Basically polling showed he was toxic so they knew they had to get rid. It had nothing to do with planning and was forced on them it was not their plan to do this but they may have then chosen folk for the reasons you suggest.

That is how they will spin it but the reality is he is an albatross around the parties neck and as despised as portillo was.

An interesting article on a point we picked up on yesterday

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/15/tale-of-two-careers-michael-gove-iain-duncan-smith ]A tale of two careers - Michae Gove and Iain Duncan Smith[/url]

[i]Both men are passionate and sincere reformers, determined in their own way, to give greater opportunities for the poor. One, in his own terms, has succeeded, and done exactly what he and Cameron promised in the Conservative manifesto.

The other has failed, leaving the Treasury, the National Audit Office and Major Projects Authority exasperated.[/i]

Mr Woppit - Member

They are big fans of capitalism

Shame they don't act like it, then.

You don't appear to understand what capitalism is. Or more likely being deliberately disingenuous.

Both men are passionate and sincere reformers, determined in their own way, to give greater opportunities for the poor

they could not give a flying **** for the poor