Someone I know very well works for Lotus in Detroit. His UK colleagues are telling him that nobody is buying the cars, suppliers have pulled down the shutters due to non-payment of invoices and the Malaysian owners are refusing to bail them out due to, er, over-ambitious UK director aspirations. In the USA he reckons Lotus are so far behind technically that the ideas they are offering car makers are ten years out of date.
You read it here first.
Sad news indeed. I wonder where it all started to go wrong?
my mates sisters cousin says delorian are finished too
USA he reckons Lotus are so far behind technically
So far behind who?
I'm surprised to be honest that Lotus even attempt to sell cars in the US - given how the are the opposite of what most American petrol heads seem to want.
Interesting use of the word "first".......... 😉
Lotus are so far behind technically that the ideas they are offering car makers are ten years out of date.
Ten years behind European and Japanese automotive technology, or ten years behind American automotive technology? If it's the later that really is worrying. Leaf springs and pushrods then.
They don't just sell cars in the USA, they are technical consultants, same as people like Ricardo.
It's not just automobiles, it's anything that moves including military vehicles, golf buggies, industrial vehicles, airport equipment, you name it....
ven how the are the opposite of what most American petrol heads seem to want.
What, as in they're really good for overtaking?
😉
mikewsmith - Membermy mates sisters cousin says delorian are finished too
First DeLorean, now delorian... who's next?!
yep crap typing but my mates brothers,uncles butler knows someone who cleans the crappers in British Leyland and reckons they might be in the rocks tooFirst DeLorean, now delorian... who's next?!
What, as in they're really good for overtaking?
In my experience Americans need three miles of straight clear road and a V8 to pass anything at all. Which they frequently have, so it's just as well really...
somebody will buy the name and it will still exist in some form, too much heritage to disappear.
EDIT: I think i said the same about TVR... exit stage left.
Global are you saying the consultancy side is folding as well, would be a shame to see the Hethel test centre going, it;s only had recent investment..
I thought the Toyota lumps superseded the K-Series so they could sell it over there and comply with emissions?They don't just sell cars in the USA
news just in: rumour mill is in overdrive.
my mates sisters cousin says delorian are finished too
[url= http://http://www.lingscars.com/DeLorean-leasing/cheap-contract-hire.html#models ]Oh no they're not![/url] 😉
There are a lot of rumours going around about this, the SELOC forum seem to get regular factory visits and the last one I read said that they had improved their QC to the point where they were rejecting full batches of parts, and then falling out with suppliers.
Obviously they are in trouble financially but I can't see how their ideas are 10 years out of date considering the performance of their cars relative to the competition.
I blame thatcher
[i]In my experience Americans need three miles of straight clear road and a V8 to pass anything at all. [/i]
Indeed. It's their gear boxes, they use up more horses than Findus.
In my experience Americans need three miles of straight clear road and a V8 to pass anything at all. Which they frequently have, so it's just as well really...
So..... You're american then?
Shonky build quality, out of date designs, cold, windy, noisy, bits don't work in them, they leak, they break down frequently.
The only think they made that was any good was the 7.
I had a Europa for 6 weeks back in the 90's, shocking POS.
my mates sisters cousin says delorian are finished too
[b]Bugger, [/b]I'd just ordered one of them off Ling's Cars!
Fantastic!Indeed. It's their gear boxes, they use up more horses than Findus.
Lots of trouble, usually serious
I had a Europa for 6 weeks back in the 90's, shocking POS.
And that is your basis for the quality of their current cars...?
Lots of trouble, usually serious
Owned an S2 K Series Elise from new in 2004 and (OK this is where things probably will end up in serious trouble...) I've had absolutely no problems with it. Not even the dreaded K Series HGF (but then I deliberately had the replacement seal fitted to avoid the problem) or leaky window/roof seals (and it's been exposed to eastern Mediterranean monsoon conditions in Cyprus).
So..... You're american then?
My wife is, been over there a lot.
I thought the consultancy side of things was still doing fairly well.
Things as of Jan this year sounded fairly hopeful on the car side of things too.
http://www.seloc.org/articles/guides/on-the-line-with-the-exige-v6/
Reaction to the new Exige certainly seemed to be positive.
Apparently Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious sold 1 car in November. Which makes a Citroen C6 look like a big seller.
Yes the Europa was my only experience, it will be the last.
I have owned 2x7's one a pinto engined and the other the K Series, both most excellent cars and I knew exactly what they would be like to own/drive. I'd have another and will do one day.
I hope the design side continues to flourish, the cars, well you are only as good as your products, lets leave it at that.
As good as your current products, or your products from 20 years ago?
The whole car industry is suffering from over supply, global down turn, rising fuel costs. Only the top end and the more value brands are growing right now, everyone else is being squeezed.
I've worked there. It was a very frustrating experience on many levels.
I can't see how they can get it back. Look at the Evora. Plastic bodied car, with severe short comings when compared to what you get from Porsche or Audi for similar money.
There are lots and lots of problems there and I can't see it ever being properly sorted unless it all implodes, someone buys up the name, etc. And starts from scratch.
Most Americans can't fit in a lotus - obvious flaw to the business model!
Who are they ten years behind? Its certainly not the Americans! Lotus make fast track cars. They go round corners very well and are not bad in a straight line.
There are lots and lots of problems there and I can't see it ever being properly sorted unless it all implodes, someone buys up the name, etc. And starts from scratch.
That seems to it, they're a niche car maker who has really overstretched themselves.
Who are they ten years behind? Its certainly not the Americans! Lotus make fast track cars. They go round corners very well and are not bad in a straight line.
Lotus build quality is appalling. A friend recently took delivery of a brand new Evora that fell apart over the course of the first weekend. He had them take it back after less than two weeks ownership because of this.
Using an Elise every day is a miserable experience. I tried and hated it. If you want something to use every day, start every time you go to it and maybe use it on the odd track day, buy an M3. If you want a track day specific car, buy a Caterham or Westfield. Those than can afford to rinse £35k+ on a weekend only car will probably buy a GT3 or something similar, not an Exige.
Lotus tried to compete with Porsche and failed.
[i]Who are they ten years behind?[/i]
Its not easy to explain to the public, but believe me. If it was my 50K, I'd be spending it with Porsche.
[i]they're a niche car maker who has really overstretched themselves.[/i]
Not sure about that. All I would say is that Lamborghini and Ferrari have survived, but only for the assistance of a parent company. You can sell relatively low volumes of cars at high prices to the super rich. But the product has to be right and this, ime, is where Hethel could never get it right.
Depends what you mean by behind....suspension wise America still uses live axles on some cars. But gadgets inside then yes the American cars can be loaded with rubbish.
The Evora is a really nice car with great handling yet you can live with it on everyday roads. But I think it's just overshadowed by more prominent cars/makes (Porsche, Merc etc) and the market for the car is too small. It does use a Toyota Camry engine though which people may find odd but it works well and is reliable. I did say in a few years I will get one as a third car 2nd hand as with the rear bench I can get the dogs in the back.
Now if they brought out a reasonably priced, competitive spec warm/hot range of saloons I reckon they could sell some cars. The cost of development and tooling up just seems too great though. It's a shame they haven't teamed up with Jag to produce some smaller BMW 1 and 3 series competitors.
When you understand the car industry and you are selling technology to vehicle manufacturers for possible use in production models, you soon get to know which R&D companies are lagging behind and which are coming up with new technology. This is not something you can measure by looking at the dealer specs on their production cars!
Doesnt the Lotus Elise come with a ejector-tree finder option?
Blamed on a supplier rather than design flaw
[i]Now if they brought out a reasonably priced, competitive spec warm/hot range of saloons I reckon they could sell some cars. The cost of development and tooling up just seems too great though. It's a shame they haven't teamed up with Jag to produce some smaller BMW 1 and 3 series competitors[/i]
Arguably, that was the market for Proton, the parent company.
The issues, ime, were more fundamental. Extremely poor middle management, politics, misguided adherence to "this is what we've always done" and "its good enough", when obviously it very much wasn't.
There were some shocking types there in positions they really shouldn't have been in, imo.
Clean slate and the brand might just be salvageable, but as it was when I was there. No chance, when you can get, for similar money.
A metal bodied car, with an interior which employs contemporary materials and production techniques. That goes and handles very well.
As before, with 50K burning a hole in my wallet, then between an Evora and an equivalent Porsche. It would be the Porsche for me.
I can see the appeal as a track car, but as a road going car it just seemed horrible compared to, say, an entry level Porsche, which is far more refined and reliable. I'm amazed they've lasted this long.
[i]I'm amazed they've lasted this long.[/i]
They didn't, the patient has been in the ICU for a long time, being supported by the parent company.
In my time there, there were 6 Esprit replacement programs launched. None ever made it to market. All that money, those opportunities, wasted.
Their problem is that their only real strength is the driving experience and "bang for your buck". They have to be considerably cheaper than cars with equivalent performance from larger manufacturers, because they can't level the playing field on specification. If you take their cars against the equivalents from Porsche, usually you're heading towards the top of the range Porsche until you reach the performance figures of the Lotus. Unfortunately for Lotus nearly everyone will drive the base-spec Porsche and decide it offers nearly all of the performance in a much better package.
I hope not, lotus S2 Elise is my dream car. Hate to see them go the same way as TVR. That would only then leave Aston Martin left to buy my cars from when I win the lottery
Erm, you could buy a Morgan.
Shandy.
Lotus are in the poo because their [i]strengths[/i] were far, far outweighed by all their many weaknesses. Producing a car with class leading (perhaps) ride and handling, does not mitigate the woeful short falls in other areas. Modern customers have tasted the goods from Germany and have more sophisticated demands. Its no longer enough to make a car fast and fun to drive. It must also have a good interior, convey the sense of quality, solidity, reliability. Admittedly, all manufacturers suffer varying degrees of all those things, but they normally work to improve them, at least to bring them within reach of the competition. Lotus just kept going back to what they knew, plastic bodies, aluminium extrusions and modular 'tubs' for the chassis, etc.
Not good enough for todays market, the sales,lack of, show us this.
Unfortunately for Lotus nearly everyone will drive the base-spec Porsche and decide it offers nearly all of the performance in a much better package.
That's their problem - you can't drive any car at their full potential around the roads (well, maybe a Smart 2-seater..) so it's often the badge name rather than spec people buy. 50k to spend on a fancy car? Probably middle aged, overweight, midlife crisis so go directly to Porsche.
Similar to Nissan Skyline - yes corners at 5.2g, 0-60 in a second, etc. etc. but a Nissan badge on the key fob as you chuck them into the bowl at the swingers party...
Modern customers have tasted the goods from Germany and have more sophisticated demands.
Maybe I'm in a very small minority then but when I bought my Elise, the short list consisted of Elise, 350Z, Z4, S2000 and Boxster, all of which I test drove. None of those offered what I wanted in terms of driving fun and connection - they were too refined and I felt I may as well have been driving a souped up saloon...
That said, having had some experience of Hethel, especially as an enthusiast, I'd have to agree with Solo about why they are where they are now...
My father did a stint there in the 60s after the aircraft industry imploded...
...most of the stories about quality control (or lack thereof), unpaid invoices and the constant threat of action by suppliers was true even then. My father describes a lot of the Lotus management at the time as "crooks" and/or "arseholes". Allegedly, there was also more than one shop floor sabotage attempt on a senior manager's life by filling a polythene bag full of oxy-acetylene, stashing it under the bonnet and wiring it to the starter motor.
They did have a lot of fun with the prototype Lotus Cortinas though.
Also, I cannot remember the last time I saw a new Lotus on the road.
I do know they do an awful lot of consultancy work (I believe that they had a hand in the 1998 Astra and Focus chassis development for example) and that the car making is very much a small, niche activity.
2 pages in & no mention of Dany Bahar and his 'vision' for the Lotus brand?
Even if they made an absolutely perfect sportscar, i don't think it would matter. Since about, oh, 2008, MPG has been the new MPH !
Some folk on here are remarkably well informed.