[Closed] Going to gigs yourself

I used to, get there when you know the support will have started so there's not too much awkward standing around with the house lights up.

Do it regularly as most of my mates have shit music taste, am 49 now and really couldn't care less...

[i]Going to gigs yourself[/i]

No, I usually send someone else 😉

We dun a fred last year - https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/do-you-go-to-gigs-on-your-own/

I do, usually when my mate's been abandoned by his wife at late notice.

Oh yeah, - brilliant gig last year, Cabbage. Went to pick up the (mad)woman on the way, she flipped about nothing at all, so I left her and went alone. Support act called The Rhythm Method were superb and Cabbage were great. Very glad I went.

I've started doing that, I didn't go home alone tho 😂

Frank Turner fans started a group called Solo Armada for people going to gigs alone to meet up before the show. It's not just for Frank Turner shows, and they usually have a list of gigs members are going to. If you are uncomfortable it might be worth googling them?

I go to gigs on my own most of the time. I prefer it that way.

I have never gone to a gig alone (because we usually make a day/night of it with beers and a curry then an overnight stay in a hotel), but most of the time I leave my mates and go off by myself (usually trying to get to the front).

Haven't done so before, but I'm thinking of seeing Van Morrison later this month in London, although at £120 a ticket for a notoriously petulant performer, I'm in two minds still.

although at £120 a ticket

I am shaking my head in disbelief. Absolutely ridiculous.

Yep, it is a small venue, hence the price, and I'm tempted to treat myself as it's also my birthday, which I'm sure the Belfast Cowboy would be happy to go out of his way and spoil by playing with his back to the audience and leaving after 20 minutes.

Do it, it might be the best gig you've ever been to. The last one I went to some was!

As long as people are prepared to pay ****ing stupid ticket prices, they'll keep going up.

Should be going to see Bob Mould (by myself) in a couple of weeks in Leeds, which should be ace. But month old baby may make that unfeasible. Boo.

I went to see Anthrax and Motorhead on my own back in 2012 - the day after coming back from honeymoon - the wife isn't a fan of either of them.
Although you can make it look like you have mates by buying a couple of drinks at the bar and then wondering round making it look like you can't find your mate......

I use to quite a lot , my thinking was I would rather do something on my own rather than miss out on seeing a band  I liked  . Having said that if something like that frank turner thing was about then I might of given that a go .

2 young kids means I don’t go out at night at all now .

I used to all the time, then I got to know someone who’s become my best mate, we share similar tastes in music, books, cinema etc, so we’ve been going to gigs together since the mid 90’s, and we still go when my work shifts allow. My g/f really doesn’t have particularly wide tastes, mostly albums she got to like thirty-odd years ago, so it’s pointless taking her, she’s just not interested.
One of the best weekends ever centred around a gig my mate wasn’t interested in, which was David Byrne and St Vincent at the Roundhouse; I really wanted to go, so I got a ticket, found a cheap B&B just north of Hyde Park, got a coach up and booked into the hotel. Dropped off my stuff, got the tube up to Highgate and explored the cemetery, then walked back to the Roundhouse, had a meal and a pint over the road. The gig was outstanding, just incredible.
Next morning I booked out, walked across Hyde Park and got the tube over to Southwark and had a pint and a meal in Borough Market, then went over to The Shard. Spent over an hour at the top taking photos, back to Borough Market for another pint, then tube back to the coach station and home.
The weather had been perfect, I had the best time, and I could be selfish and do just what I wanted.
Go to gigs on your own, many do, get chatting to others there and have a bloody good time!

although at £120 a ticket

I am shaking my head in disbelief. Absolutely ridiculous.

😳 Sweet Baby Jesus! I have paid more than that, for the Kate Bush concerts in London, but it was an amazing experience, a real theatrical show rather than a gig, plus I had front row seats, and I wouldn’t have missed it for anything, but generally I baulk at paying more than around £30-40.

Seems apt today, but the last couple I went to solo were the Prodigy.... 🙁

Didn't matter if you weren't in a group as everyone was 'bouncing' so hard 🙂

Off to see Suede and the good the bad and the queen in April on my own, been to plenty recently like that if the gig is good it doesn't really matter

If you've got a spare ticket for Beth Orton in Frome, I'll come with you.

(Just got tickets for The Orb there, but taking the boy)

I go to a lot of concerts, most of them on my own as Mrs Jate is a lot more choosy than me. I really enjoy it, particularly when I am staying away on work and would otherwise be Billy No Mates in a hotel; much better being Billy No Mates at a gig. In any event I often get chatting to people (indeed there is a group of us who seem to bump into each other at alt-country stuff in the Leeds/York area).

Since I started going to gigs regularly again 6-7 years back as the kids got older I always went with my elder daughter. However she went off to uni in September so since then I generally go on my own. Quite enjoy it tbh, and it’s a lot cheaper as I always bought my daughter’s tickets and drinks.

She is coming home this weekend though as we’re going to see Stiff Little Fingers on Sunday. Fourth time we’ve seen them together, always down the front, always battered black and blue!

My husband and I used to go to gigs together, but now we have a sprog and childcare. So he stays at home because he's a hero, and I go with my brother. My brother doesn't get a huge say in the matter, as I've usually bought him a ticket for his birthday or Christmas, because I'm a terrible human being.

Went to see the cancer bats last month on my own, first time as I usually drag someone along, this time the guy I would have gone with had a work commitment he couldn't get out of. I could have offered it up at work, but I fancied a solo trip. Was nice not having to think about other people and in a crowd with loud music it's not like you have much time for chat anyway.

I have paid more than that, for the Kate Bush concerts in London

Seems to be a badge of honour. Seeing as people [i]always[/i] mention it and how much it was! 😆

I think the reason gig tickets for big performers are so expensive is because that's how they make their dosh these days. In the past you would lose money on a tour but you would be showcasing your new album which in turn would earn the money. Now they make all the money on the show and the recording gets streamed for relatively little. There was a good series on BBC4 the other week about the music business, and this was mentioned.

I think the reason gig tickets for big performers are so expensive is because that’s how they make their dosh these days.

This has been said before. Doesn't really explain why the already rich old bastards charge the most though does it.

Because they mugs will pay.

Yeah, prefer not to but tbh as soon as the band's on I might as well be there by myself anyway so it's no biggy.

Can't see any issue with going to gigs on your own, I've done it several times. It's not like you're going to be chatting with your mates throughout the entire gig, ARE YOU?! It's like going to the cinema, sitting silently in a darkened room for two hour isn't exactly a social experience.

I used to have to travel for work and routinely found myself having to go to restaurants or pubs on my own. It was weird at first, felt like Billy-no-mates, until I had the 'sod it' revelation. I'm there on business so have a legitimate reason for being out on my own, and in honesty WGAF if a complete stranger turns up their nose at me. Sitting in a hotel room for six hours would be way sadder, I was quite happy to go for a pint and chuck a few darts on my Jack Jones after I realised that.

for the last 10-15 years, almost all the gigs i've been to i have gone on my tod, but there's almost always been at least one other person there that i know so it's not really felt like i've been there alone.

I'd wouldn't give it a second thought. Bugger what anyone else at gig thinks.

Seems to be a badge of honour. Seeing as people always mention it and how much it was!

Mmmmmmmm, I know what you mean, but that was the last thing I was thinking when I booked the tickets, it was, basically, will there ever be another chance, and the conclusion was, probably no. There have been a good many bands and artists who I never had the chance to see, and never will, like Sandy Denny, Joni Mitchell, the original Genesis lineup, Talk Talk...
I took the opportunity while I could actually afford it, the experience made it worth every penny.
I missed out on seeing Tom Waites the last time he played over here, although I have a feeling the tickets all went to the scalping sites like getmein.com, and maybe there will be another chance, but Kate? No, it’s highly unlikely, tbh.

Ticket prices are what they are because the previous music industry model of Record Label advance to cover recording costs, with the artist taking a percentage of record sales revenue has been broken by streaming services like Apple Music and Spotify where artists receive a tiny fraction of what they would have once received from record sales. Apple Music for example pays just £0.0046 per stream.

On this basis live music and for songwriters publishing is the only viable income stream. Because of the income profile of gigs versus a constant stream of percentage returns from record sales the income from tours needs to pay the bills for a,long time between gigs. Granted for major artists the streaming revenue alone would be significant so they are taking advantage, albeit production costs are higher but for smaller artists playing smaller shows with lower numbers of streams this is the only viable business model. Either that or don't have any new music because musicians aren't going to work for free.

I’d go to a gig alone if I really wanted to see the band and no one else was available to join me. I don’t like to hang about at the back, so I often spend the entire gig up near the front if my friends want to stay at the back.
Mr Pea and I go to a lot of live music together but I draw the line at Genesis tribute bands so he goes to those on his own 😉

shakers97

Ticket prices are what they are because...

Mugs will pay it. Pure and simple.
Don't know what "smaller artists" you mean - for most of them there is no "business model". A fair few gigs I go to are like £5 for 3 bands. They are purely doing it for the love of it, not for any income stream. It's not a business model for rich old gits like Van Morrison. He charges £120 purely because mugs will pay it.

I would suggest that there's a lot of things happening between the two extremes of bands playing for the love of it 3 to a bill for £5 and worldwide artists like Van Morrison. Professional musicians making a living from being a musical artist that now needs to charge £30 plus for a ticket whereas in the past when they were getting paid for their recorded music they would charge a lot less. Maybe you think artists should produce art for you to enjoy and somehow manage to live on next to no income.

Price inflation has got out of control across all entertainment at the top end - look at the price of premier league football tickets. Probably reflects a lot of economic inequality too - loads of rich Americans fly in to Belfast to see him play small gigs, with table service; same with corporate packages at the football. Van Morrison is a canny businessman, worth 70 million big ones, yeah it's basically greed - but the problem isn't just mugs being mugs, but price inflation from the very top of the economic pyramid.
The ideal would be to see an upcoming uniquely gifted, artist playing small gigs for a fiver.
I've gone to a lot of small gigs and have to say it's a bit like watching non-league football, you get about 4 minutes of quality and 88 minutes of bang average dross.
The other point I'd make is that we won't see the same quality of popular music as the boom period between the 50s and early 80s - it was a once off. So there is something to be said about seeing Van Morrison, Dylan, the beach boys etc before they kick the bucket, but from what I hear a lot of the concerts are disappointing as they obviously lack the youthful energy that made them great performers in the first place.

As I said originally the bigger artists are undoubtedly taking the p*ss but the general inflation of gigs tickets, and as you point out entertainment generally has made doing that easier. What I'm taking about is smaller and medium sized artists, and I'm not confining that to popular music. As a jazz musician myself I have seen gig prices more than doubled in the past decade because of the reasons I have given, and every tour seems to ramp that up.

Fish has some intereting posts on the costs of touring, obviously at the lower end of the market, he's no longer selling out Wembley Arena with Marillion...

http://fishmusic.scot/touring-view-fish-eye-lens/

The dates I have posted for this year are the only shows I am playing in Europe. Some of you have asked why not Italy? France? Spain? etc etc.

The bottom line is that with band and crew wages,agency commission,local/national taxes, nightliner bus and hotel costs, fuel, food and all the other sundries associated with day to day touring working on an average of 5 shows a week I need at least £5000 a gig to pay for it all. And that is before I make a penny!

To put it in perspective the offers I have had from Italy so far are on guarantees of around 2000 euros.I only work to guarantees as the percentages I get if more people show up mean nothing if they don’t and I have been clobbered in the past taking gambles.I am personally responsible for all my costs and to the people I employ.

It’s all very well posting here about such and such a town or country but turning up in such and such a town or city because 12 people have posted here doesn’t mean that the thousand or so I need to make up the numbers will appear.

The promoters make their offers on what they think is the tickets they know they will sell for definite. They don’t want to lose their shirt and neither do I.

My agent does his best to find me the shows but if promoters aren’t willing to pay the money to support my costs then there is no show.There’s no point in throwing the toys out the pram on this it’s just a reality.I accept that.

Too many bands are touring because they can’t make money on physical album sales and ‘Johnny Punter’ has only so much disposable income to spend on concert tickets never mind the time in their lives to attend gigs.Some bands and promoters are getting hurt out there especially when ‘premier’ bands come out with tickets at £65 plus and hoover up that ‘disposable income’ leaving the ‘championship’ and ‘lower league’ bands struggling to sell venues.. It’s the way the music business is these days. I accept that.

So what do I do? Hike ticket prices higher and play to a more ‘select’ and well heeled audience to get the guarantees higher? I don’t think a lot of fans would be happy about that and I think the attendances would suffer.

Play more shows in a week to spread the costs? Physically I can’t play 4 shows in a row anymore without it having detrimental effects on my voice and 3 on day off 3 doesn’t work either as we have travel movements and venue availabilities to take into account.- and that is a tough call on a long tour even if we could get the rabbits in a row!

I’m not going to go over the North America question again here as I am tired of dealing with explanations. All I will say is there are even more costs involved there and I couldn’t make 13 shows work with guarantees of $150 000.

In 2016 I was harangued by Spanish fans to replace shows in Madrid and Barcelona after cancelling them through illness on the previous tour. I made the effort and came down with 2 shows in 5 days due to travel distances. I played to around 800 people across those 2 gigs. The promoter lost money as did I. He hasn’t offered what I need this year.

I’d like to get out in April/ May 2019 and play those countries missing on this years schedules but I can’t take risks and cannot afford to lose money especially at this time in my life. My agent is continuing to try and bring touring together and he will continue to haggle best he can to make it happen but I’m afraid the bottom line is if the guarantees aren’t there then I have to stay at home.

And just to add to the difficulties I already have making budgets work in a couple of years the shambles that is Brexit is potentially going to make things far worse than is now in the coming years.

Working visas for every European country for band and crew, Carnets at every border crossing with VAT checks and accounting meaning long delays getting to shows on buses and trucks whose drive time is regulated which will threaten shows as we can’t guarantee arriving on time. Reciprocal tax agreements potentially thrown out the window meaning we can’t claim – for example – 19% tax we pay in Germany on all shows after production costs. The list goes on and on.

Touring is a very hard and difficult undertaking and requires a lot of logistical thinking and financing to pull it off. If it works then great but if it doesn’t the downside is potentially disastrous.I prefer not to court disaster these days.

I love playing shows and this 50 date tour this year is a massive exercise that has proved and will prove very demanding. We have managed to make the figures work on these gigs but even then there are a couple of gambles in order to make the routing work.

Just because we aren’t playing in your town , city or country shouldn’t be taken personally. It’s not through choice it’s through lack of viable offers from promoters and,sad to say, demand.

Some will say “oh here he goes moaning again”. I’m not. I accept the reality of my situation and I wish some people out there would accept it too.

I am retiring from the music business in 2020 and it’s the right time. Until then enjoy the shows while they are still there and I sincerely appreciate your support on this upcoming tour.
We will have some fun 🙂

Fish

and

I’m sitting here in the control room listening to the rough mixes of the Saturday night performance at the Leamington Spa convention last year while contemplating the May touring figures in the UK. Many of you were interested and surprised at the last blog regarding the state of the music industry with regards to distribution and my survival ideas. I touched on the touring situation and the difficulties therein and after talking to Yatta I have decided to take it a step further and open up with some details that may surprise you.

What I am about to disclose is a picture of a typical tour costs assessment using an unnamed venue from the May tour with explanations where needed as to the figures and what they mean.

Firstly I am showing the costs from the promoters perspective and where the money goes. As I said this is a “typical” venue but sometimes there are variations which I’ll point out and explain-

“Venue”

capacity 700 ( on the tour we are playing venues from 400 cap ( x3) to 1200 (1) the rest average around 650-700)

Ticket price (all prices in pounds sterling) 22.50 net after VAT 18.75 net after PRS (publishing on songs played during performance, takes over a year to come back minus percentages to society) 18.19

Total receipts at Box office on capacity sell out 12 731.25

Expenditure

Support 50 (standard fee)

Catering 300 for 10 people (sandwiches, teas coffees,soft drinks, water -lunch, main meal at night (normally a 10 “buyout” = fend for yourselves), 6 bottles of wine + soft drinks, water and snacks for dressing room

Venue Hire 1100 normally this is inclusive of PA and lights as most venues have their own installations, it also includes security, local crew (“humpers”), towels etc.Cheapest venue hire is 250 but PA and security add on 950. Most expensive is 2250 ( and that is a 400 capacity) Average is around 1500

PA/Lights/Security/Crew/Barriers/Towels as I said are inclusive at this level of gigging. Next one up they become extras or venue hire rates go up accordingly.

Rep 120 this what we pay per show for the promoters representative who liaises with the venue and ourselves and takes care of the fees due on the night of show.

Local/National press budget 700 this is based on the total budget split between the 12 shows The Gig Cartel are promoting for me.This covers ads and the cost of a press officer who deals with the tour in advance setting up interviews and notifying local and national press.

Insurance 75 this is the insurance the promoter takes out for cancellation/public liability etc etc again split across 12 shows. It does not cover me.

Ticketing as with most venues nowadays the ticketing is outsourced to agencies who charge what I consider exorbitant fees and earn a tidy profit for very little in my opinion. A 4.50 charge in some cases to process a ticket plus postage which again appears more than enough to cover delivery. Just more middlemen eating the ever decreasing pie.

total expenses for this example are 2245

The Gig Cartel have dealt with my last couple of tours and they are easy guys to get on with and total pros, well versed at dealing with bands at this level. There are no hidden office expenses or extras that seep away at the expenditure.They guarantee a fee to Yatta and myself, cover their rep and like me hope that we “break percentage” on the show. That means we earn more money as we pass the “break even” figure where all venue costs and expenditure is met.The guarantee is based on the number of tickets they expect to sell. It is in no ones interests for promoters to go out on a limb with unrealistic figures as that means busted promoters and busted promoters can mean busted and potentially derailed tours and other bands getting hit in the aftermath if they are going through the same promoter ( as happened to me in 91 when I took a kicking on the Exile tour through a bankrupted company called Bandstand who’d booked me ,sold my tickets and lost the money before they went down through other busted tours just as I hit the road with my tour!. I took a 75k hit to the head with no comeback available)

Yatta haggles over the guarantee as our costs have to be met within that but after all I have said above a realism has to exist on all sides.The percentage splits after the break work accordingly, usually 70-30 in favour of the artist with the Gig Cartel not making any money themselves until after the break even is hit.

My guarantee on every gig on this tour is 2250

The break even on this show requires 273 tickets

And now we move onto my costs! (all minus VAT)

Band wages 750 5 musicians, I am not included in calculations for wages

Crew wages 400 4.Sound tech, backline tech,video/light tech and Yatta. As with the musicians these are not top notch wages but what I can afford and I am lucky I have great band and crew guys that have remained loyal and give and make time for me.

Agency 113 This is Yatta’s fee of 5% of the gig guarantee for setting up and booking the tour with the Gig Cartel, booking hotels, sorting out transport, organising and printing itineraries, phone bills, laminates and all the other work that goes into organising a tour before we go out. It can take months sometimes when dealing with European bus tours across a 6-7 week itinerary. The agency percentage also covers my side of earnings after we pass the “break even” point. A mainline “London” booking agent can take between 10-20% of a show fee and they generally don’t do anything apart from book the gig and only liaise with the band’s production manager with regards to all the other details. Mainline agents (especially the good ones) are more in demand and more difficult to get than record deals these days as the live scene takes over as the artist’s main income supplier from selling recorded product. As I said in the previous blog the album sells the tour and not the other way around as it used to be years ago when I started in the business. I couldn’t afford to deal with a mainline agent as it would mean it would be unlikely to get the numbers of gigs I do get as promoters either couldn’t afford the fees (re read the busted promoters section above) or I couldn’t fit the agents percentage in my budget at the level I work on. (add a managers 20% on top and you understand why I don’t have management!). Yatta and I have been around the block enough times to know a good selection of European promoters, the ones we trust, the ones we want and like to work with and who Yatta can pick up the phone and put together a tour with. By not having “London” representation we might lose out on some festivals and other gigs but we have our “meat and potatoes” and the lower costs mean we can work more often. With no major record company behind me and at 55 years old with the numbers I normally do it would be highly unlikely that either a mainline agent or decent manager would look at me anyway. I don’t take it personally. I am just realistic which is why we operate as we do.Anyway back to the costs!

Hotel (4 twin and 2 single) 400 ranges again go from 280 up to 550. This UK tour is not on a sleeper bus. The journeys are only a matter of a couple of hours which would mean sleeping parked up outside venues. On European tours the distances are greater and we couldn’t travel those hours on a gig day. On bus tours we get a hotel every 4 days unless there’s horrendous traveling involved ( as we have on a long section of the September tour with only a ferry cabin in 8 days). Bus tours can mean a day room on gig day where everyone showers etc unless there’s facilities in the venue.Bus costs are around 450 a day for something not luxurious! This UK tour there has to be doubles which means sharing for the band and crew. Yatta and I have singles .. It’s the only thing I “pull rank” on as I need my sleep to recover the voice and need the peace and quiet to chill and steady myself. Yatta deals with after show figures, advancing gigs etc and also needs his own space.Not ideal but necessity as you’ll see further down the page.

Insurance 42 this is another of those figures split over 12 shows. This is my cover for public liability and canceled shows in the main. It only covers the guarantees not any potential percentage break no matter how many tickets are sold in advance. It doesn’t cover merch loss or anything else. Only the costs I have incurred and lost through a “no show”.. Luckily my history has been relatively clean in recent years so although I don’t have a “no claims” bonus the premiums are not horrendous.

Splitter Van Hire 110 the new all singing and dancing “Clown Carrrier” driven by Shaun the “FTC” who also, as most of you well know, is our sound tech. A 9 seater Merc van that also carries all our backline equipment and my merchandise. On a “big bus ” tour it goes in a trailer behind the bus which is an additional cost, about the same as a splitter van hire!

Fuel Van 47 an average as you’d expect

Fuel Car 25 Yes you did the figures right! There’s 10 in the party and a 9 seater Splitter van. This means yours truly will be following the Clown Carrier again driving to gigs with whatever passenger decides to join me.We haven’t even registered a “hire” cost here!

Strings/Skins etc 42 Not drug paraphernalia but the “throwaways” the musos go through again averaged out over the 12 days. Drum skins, drum sticks ,guitar strings, bass strings break, wear out and have to be replaced. It’s a tour cost not an individuals. Normal procedure.

Catering – Breakfast 25 The only meal we pay for on gig days and days off. Sometimes inclusive in the hotel charge and sometimes not. Some of us do and some of us – mainly me – don’t. Again an average.

Video Hire 75 This is for the equipment we use to provide the backscreen projections. I don’t have the budgets to go for a “Porcupine Tree” visual extravaganza but we do what we can in the constraints to put something up to make more of the show. I use “in house” lighting techs on the night who are briefed on what we need from what we get provided with in the venue. There are some fine guys out there on the circuit and quite a few I would like to have kidnapped! Again at this level I can’t afford a Lighting designer (LD) with another wage and another hotel room etc. I use “apps” in the form of the video operated by “Secret” on this tour. (he did 13th Star and is a talent!) Again this figure is averaged out over the 12 shows.

Merch facility fee 50 The fee we pay to venues to allow me to sell my merchandise. We get a space we need to set up a stall provided by the house and lighting.I can deal with that! I can’t deal and refuse to deal with percentages of the revenue.My average take at a venue is 3 a head which means on average I sell 3 pounds for every ticket holder. In a 400 crowd I therefore would take 1200 which includes VAT. Take off the VAT and it’s 1000. T shirts have roughly a 35% profit margin so that’s 350 but as there’s DVD’s and albums with slightly bigger margins and I don’t only sell T’s say the take after VAT is 500.If the venue takes their 25% then it’s off the 1200 figure. That’s 300! Then they charge VAT at 20%. That’s 360.Ok I can claim the VAT back my end but it means the venue makes more than me from my merch. Rough figures but you get the idea! If only I could get a percentage of the beer they sell to the audience i bring in? .2 pints on average each, 600 pints, 25% =150 pints @ 3 each? 🙂 If I had a separate merchandiser he’d be on 100 a show plus a hotel room/ breakfast so another 150 a night comes out the nett to give me 300 after the facility charge of 50. Once again I have to take the “guerilla” approach and Yatta will be handling the merch stall on this UK tour with the rest of us helping set ups.

Rehearsals 416 The average taken from 12 shows for just under 2 weeks full band rehearsals on half wages with a hotel room (I have 2 rooms here and potentially 3 are “out of towners” with Shaun up for the last few days) catering for the band and fuel to and from the farm. It comes in around 5k.

And that ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls is only the rough costing without any allowance for miscellaneous! It doesn’t take into account the days off of which there are 3 that have no income but still have crew wages (the guys get paid by the week, the band by show), the hotels, the splitter van hire ( it’s out with us for the duration) the fuel, breakfasts coming in at around 1100. These all go into the overall tour budget! But I am getting slightly ahead of myself. Meanwhile back at the “venue” it’s gig day so let’s add up the Fishy costs!

In total the rough costs on my end are approximately 2496.

This gives me a loss of 246 on the guarantee but 254 ahead if i bring the merchandise into the equation!

It’s not all doom and gloom though. Remember these figures are on the guarantee that requires 273 people to buy tickets out of a potential 700.For every extra 100 tickets I’d sell here I’d make another 1200 with a potential of 4800 if I sold it out! And there’s extra heads buying merch? But realistically in both my eyes and those of the promoters that is unlikely to happen.500 maybe with a fair wind and a walk up. Maybe, maybe , maybe! I’ve been hit before and ran a tour with only about 5 breaks in 20 shows. I never gamble. I nearly lost a house before being way way too optimistic.And it’s a recession and there are a lot of bands all chasing the same pie!

On the figures I have across the 12 dates with Gig cartel based on guarantees and without any merchandise sales in the equation and adding those empty 3 days off I am looking at a loss of 6.5k.

The lottery win of a complete sell out tour would be around 45k profit. Those numbers aren’t coming up! Half that and I would be a happy man but that’s doubtful . If it did hit say 25k there’s still the bogey man of HMRC and corporation tax at 24% taking 6k and leaving 19k. It’s still a lot of money which I would be lucky to be able to make in this day and age and which I’d be exceedingly grateful for.

But to throw that figure in perspective in the big picture it’s the only UK tour I could safely command for at least another 18 months without another new album and apart from the Fishheads Club tour that closed in 2011 my first full electric band touring since 2008 with only around 10 or so shows in 2012.

The European tour in the Autumn is a completely different ball game.Slightly bigger fees but way more expense with the added kick off witholding taxes by relative countries.And again it will be the last one for at least another 18 months.It’s a harvest of sorts after years preparing the ground and you have to make sure you gather what you can as it has to last a while. Unlike the band and crew I only get one hit at this while they can move onto other bands and tours.

No matter how you look at it It’s all a gamble which in previous scenarios I have lost my shirt and underpants by taking. If it comes off then everyone is happy. I just wanted to share this with you to give you a better idea of how it works and what lies behind the scenes of touring at the level I am working on.It’s not a cry for sympathy or anything else of that nature. It’s how it is and as i said before I have to deal with it the best I can and hope the sun shines on me occasionally and makes it a good night for walk ups on the doors!.

I am eternally grateful to have made it this far down the road and to still be able to even pull a crowd after over 30 years as a professional singer. There are a lot of burnt out wrecks in the ditch and even more musicians that never even got a ride that were left standing holding dreams a long way back. I got lucky but there’s gonna come a time when I have to pull over and park up and cut down on the driving as I don’t want to end up a casualty. I’d like to slow down and take in the view for a change as there’s still a lot of things i want to see and do. I am very aware of the changes that are occurring and not all of them I like or want to be part of. It’s always been a rough ride being an artist but there’s only so long I can keep this off roading up for. This year will be a challenging year for us all and it’s going to be interesting to see where I end up when the dust clears!

I actually read all that, and it does make me a lot more aware of where the money goes. I think in this day and age of 'supergroups' like U2 making x amount of millions on every tour they do, I think you forget about the smaller bands/artists who love to get out there but just can't afford to do it on the level they'd like to.