Whist it may not be obvious that such antisemitism exists on this thread, in my experience it is likely there is some, even if those who have such feelings aren't themselves aware of it.
Sorry that cannot go unchallenged. You are accusing folk of being antisemitic for expressing disgust at the actions of the Iseali government and the IDF. Thats a nasty accusation to make and an attack line used by the apologists for the actions of the Israeli government. Just have a think about that.
I don't need to 'have a think' about anything. As I said; just because YOU don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're asserting no antisemitism exists on this thread, which is something you cannot possibly prove. I'm challenging that assertion, is all. Trying to equate me with the Israeli government is a typical attack line used for people who want to pretend antisemitism doesn't exist. As anyone can clearly see, I am no fan of the Israeli government. To suggest otherwise is deeply offensive.
You said "hate Isreal" in reference to folk on here. That is conflating abhorrence at the actions of the government and the IDF with hatred of a nation. You are actually doing what you accuse others of. You are not listening
I am, I'm just not agreeing with you, is all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Trying to shout down others simply for having different perspectives is absolutely in the realm of 'not listening'. Just have a think about that.
Whist it may not be obvious that such antisemitism exists on this thread, in my experience it is likely there is some
Ah, throw in the utterly worn out "anti-semitism" allegation when Palestine is being discussed. Benjamin Netanyahu uses it on a daily basis against anyone who dares to criticise him.
And what "experience" btw? You only started posting on this thread not much more than a week ago!
Your "experience" of the last one or two weeks? If so it should be fairly easy for you to provide examples of this alleged anti-semitism.
And btw since you are apparently new here, despite registering a year ago and not posting for about the first 12 months, you might not be aware that there's a report button?
The report button is at the top right of a post, I can assure you that the moderators on here will not tolerate anti-semitism or any other form of racism so just hit it next time you see an example of anti-semitism.
You're asserting no antisemitism exists on this thread, which is something you cannot possibly prove. I'm challenging that assertion, is all. Trying to equate me with the Israeli government is a typical attack line used for people who want to pretend antisemitism doesn't exist
Of course he can't. Just as you can't prove that it does, no matter how many times you accuse others of it, albeit in a sly and deniable way. But it doesn't really matter. The ritual accusation of antisemitism has robbed it of all of its meaning and power. You can call me an antisemite all day long, I really don't care.
No one said they saw anti-semitism in any post here 🙄
He just said that in his (life) experience, there's often some anti-semitism, possibly subconscious, behind some of thoughts he's seeing expressed here.
FWIW: a) I don't agree 😉 and b) I also lurked for a long time before ever posting anything here, does that make my opinions invalid for X amount of time? Ernie you're better than this 🙂
Enough with the "just report it" line... it's totally fine to question the attitudes and comments of other posters... and people in wider society isn't it? Don't you? Don't we all?
Criticism of the Israeli government is often greeted with false claims of anti-semitism (especially by the Israeli government). Anti-semitism still is an actual and real problem though. And isn't helped by directing hate indiscriminately at everyone living in, or supporting the continued existence of, the only Jewish state, as if all culpable for the acts of a vile war hungry government.
It's quite telling that two individuals (with whom I probably have a lot in common in terms of attitudes regarding the current genocide), who have posted comments such as :
Given a choice between a dead Palestinian or a dead Israeli Sir Keir Starmer would very clearly prefer a dead Palestinian. I on the other hand would prefer a dead Israeli.
And:
Israelis are rabid dogs
...Seem to want to shout me down so much. I haven't accused anyone of being antisemitic, this is fact. Yet I'm being compared to Benjamin Netanyahu. I've not wished for anyone's death, nor have I dehumanised an entire nation, yet here we are. Interesting.
Be interested to know exactly how all this is helping to bring peace to Palestine.
No one said they saw anti-semitism in any post here
No, just that it's "likely" there is anti-semitism on this thread.
The term "anti-semitism" has now been weaponised so much that now some people believe that just shouting it enough, no need for any actual evidence of anti-semitism.
And the more they use it the more meaningless the term becomes.
But attempting to defend the indefensible isn't easy so stuff like "anti-semitism" and remember the Holocaust has to be wheeled out in the absence of any credible defence.
I haven't accused anyone of being antisemitic, this is fact.
Yes, that is a fact. But what did you mean when you said?
Starting to see the veil slipping from one or two posters here
I think part of the problem is that social media in general and this topic in particular are SO binary, and social media does not allow for nuance. 🙁 I had a discussion on Facebook with a chap I vaguely know about whether what's happening is genocide. Now, as far as I'm concerned, as adults we should be able to discuss that and, if we can't jointly reach a conclusion, then we should be able to agree to dissagree and go about our seperate ways. Didn't quite happen like that... 🙁
It feels similar in here - I think the voices we're hearing are mostly almost completely aligned, some are completely partisan, some are suggesting there is some nuance around the matter. I have sympathy with both viewpoints. But I don't think this is a discussion either side can "win", and it's unhelpful and divisive to think otherwise. I dunno. 🙁
Given a choice between a dead Palestinian or a dead Israeli Sir Keir Starmer would very clearly prefer a dead Palestinian. I on the other hand would prefer a dead Israeli.
And? Have you got some sort of problem with that?
In the current conflict I fully support Palestine, not Israel. It is Israel which is violating international law, committing war crimes, illegal occupying territory, and committing crimes against humanity
If people are going to have to die in this war I would much rather that it wasn't people on the side that I support, which is exactly the same position as Sir Keir Starmer takes.
And what is the point of you quoting that post of mine, is that suppose to be an example of "anti-semitism"? If so as an expert on Israelis you should be aware that Israeli is not a race, not all Israelis are Jews.
On the other hand pretty much all Palestinians are Arabs so using that logic Sir Keir Starmer is clearly a racist for preferring dead Arabs to dead Israelis.
I think part of the problem is that social media in general and this topic in particular are SO binary, and social media does not allow for nuance. 🙁 I had a discussion on Facebook with a chap I vaguely know about whether what's happening is genocide. Now, as far as I'm concerned, as adults we should be able to discuss that and, if we can't jointly reach a conclusion, then we should be able to agree to dissagree and go about our seperate ways. Didn't quite happen like that... 🙁
It feels similar in here - I think the voices we're hearing are mostly almost completely aligned, some are completely partisan, some are suggesting there is some nuance around the matter. I have sympathy with both viewpoints. But I don't think this is a discussion either side can "win", and it's unhelpful and divisive to think otherwise. I dunno. 🙁
It doesnt have to be about 'sides'. The only side that is justified in taking here is the one that opposes genocide. We're all in agreement with that, from what I can see. We're all essentially on the same 'side'. But as you point out something I've said a few times now, nuance is important. It's no good calling an entire nation 'rabid dogs', or wishing for certain people to die over others, that leads nowhere but more hatred and division. As is usually the case, a small minority of very vocal 'extremists' want to shout down anything that doesn't fit in with their narrow perspective. Such people use a variety of tactics including personal attacks, to deflect away from the inflexibility and narrow-mindedness of their own position. It takes some emotional intelligence to move beyond this, as I said earlier.
I think such discussions and debates can be helpful; tbh it's by coming out of my comfort zone, and not wishing to remain in an echo chamber, that has taught me more about 'Pro-Israeli' attitudes and sentiments than any interaction with people that are on 'my' side. I now have a better understanding of how such minds work, what influences them, how those ideologies are promoted. Many years ago, I worked with various organisation trying to combat racism. And there, I encountered the same shrill extremists on 'our' side, that we see proliferate discussions like this one. People who were totally unwilling to try to understand what drives racism, what are the underlying causes. To them, the BNP etc were just scum, dehumanised to the extent they were never going to have any dialogue with them. What helped us most was actually shutting such individuals out (that was hard work!), and inviting former far-right members to come and give their perspectives. We made a lot of progress and left a legacy that remains to this day. Fighting fire with fire doesn't work; you all just get burnt. But an approach that actually involves empathy and trying to understand, is always more successful.
But as you point out something I've said a few times now, nuance is important. It's no good calling an entire nation 'rabid dogs', or wishing for certain people to die over others, that leads nowhere but more hatred and division.
Yes, nuance “may” be important in situations, as to rabid dogs? - Daniel Levy said the following, I think I may have quoted him way back in the thread
“The US have created in Israel a mad rabid dog it can no longer control.”
Yes, nuance “may” be important in situations, as to rabid dogs? - Daniel Levy said the following, I think I may have quoted him way back in the thread
“The US have created in Israel a mad rabid dog it can no longer control.”
There's a difference between "Israel is a rabid dog" and "Israelis are rabid dogs".
Edit: And yes, I am aware that even when someone says "Israelis are rabid dogs" they don't necessarily literally mean "every single Israeli", but still, even so...
A message from a friend. No doubt a Hamas sympathiser. Nevertheless- maybe you can help
You may remember that back in May I put out an appeal for help on behalf of my friend Eman Tamer. There was a very serendipitous response to that post because someone who read it (my friend Mairtín de Búrca) was asked by a friend of his if he could suggest someone to donate to in Gaza. Mairtin suggested he donate to Eman which the friend then did. The donation was a thousand pounds which has certainly helped Eman a great deal and she has been very grateful.
Now, however, eight weeks on and Eman is struggling again and has asked me to put out another appeal.
I have been communicating with Eman for many months. She studied social work at university before getting married and having two children.
Sadly, her husband was killed in the early days of the genocide. Eman misses him greatly.
Now she is alone with her two young children. She has been displaced several times all over Gaza. She had to walk with her children from place to place. At each destination she had to find or buy sticks and materials to build shelters. All her cooking is on open fire.
When the opportunity came in January, she returned to northern Gaza where she came from and where she is now.
I’m going to share with you some of her messages sent to me over the past few months. She sent more in the past but Meta deleted them along with a couple of her Instagram accounts. This effectively took away her means of asking for support.
“We went back to the north of Gaza, and we cannot open the Internet, because the situation is very difficult and all the houses are destroyed.
My condition is very bad, I'm tired, my children didn’t eat for two days, I can't buy food, please stand by me, I want people who can help my children, please.
You are a writer. Can you create a book for me? Expresses my life, my story and the story of my children? I can tell you my whole story. You can do this in a short way so that it does not require much from you. I want to tell the world about my suffering, but I can't communicate with them. I'm tired. I swear I'm tired. I don't know what to do.
I cry every night about this life that I live. I feel as if my heart will stop. Who will listen to me? I want to send my voice to the world so they can stand with my children and help them.
What we are going through and what we endure is unbearable for anyone. I've been in a state of collapse since my husband died. This isn't easy.
Not only that, but we live among rats and insects, and I also suffer from burns on the fire when I cook food. Sometimes I can't even find food and can't buy what I need. My life is like hell.
I swear I'm tired, not only that I can't have a gallbladder operation (Eman sent me a photo of the doctor’s report) because I don't have the money. Even now, as I am talking to you, I have a stomach ache from gall stones. I am patient with that.
How do I tell you about the rest of my miserable life? There is nothing beautiful in my life.
When I was displaced from my home, I moved to a school in Rafah. After that, the occupation evacuated Rafah, so I went to a tent in Khan Yunis. After that, the place became almost dangerous. I also moved to a tent in the Al-Mazayda area.
My hope for the future is that I will be able to provide for my children’s needs and not deprive them of anything
It was a difficult night to bombard, we don't know when the war will end. I wish it would end I can't take it anymore.
I feel the loss of hope in this life, how difficult it is, I don't see a good day since the beginning of the war.
I swear I'm trying to bear it, but I feel suffocated and tight in my chest. I can't bear what's happening to us. The war has become more difficult than before, and the situation here is catastrophic.
I apologize to myself for not being able to bear it. I swear I'm trying to bear it, but I feel suffocated and tight in my chest. I can't bear what's happening to us. The war has become more difficult than before, and the situation here is catastrophic.
I am tired, I can't sleep, I am in pain from gallstones, life has become so dark for me.
I wish the war would end so that our lives would be stabilized. I am tired, I swear, I am so tired.
If I hadn't lost my husband, life would be better now, regardless of the war. I don't know how I will continue my life without him. How will I bring up my children and help them and compensate them for everything we have lost?
I was living a happy life. My husband and I used to live in a house full of love. He was bringing me gifts and fulfilling all his children's needs. Nothing was missing in our lives.
In war I only think about how to get flour, so that we can eat bread, I swear, I'm ashamed to say this, but I don't know what to do.
I lost a lot of weight. I now weigh 45 kg due to the lack of food. I do not eat because I save bread for my children. Also, my teeth hurt me a lot, but I can't afford to go to the doctor.
My stomach is constantly hurting me. I went to the doctor and did the tests which showed I have a gallbladder problem (Eman showed me a photo of the doctor’s report). I should have an operation but I can't because I can’t afford it. I don't know what to tell you, in short, my life has become like hell.”
If you’re able to help Eman and her children, her Chuffed donation account is linked in the comments. Thank you to my friends who have already donated to Eman, she is very grateful to you.
Here are photos of Eman’s children Farah (4) and Murad (3). When I showed my wife the photo of Farah, she thought it was our own daughter Bee.
https://chuffed.org/project/supportafamilyingaza
Netanyahu, with trump at his side, has just said, without a hint of irony: ‘Gaza should not be a prison.’
He then added ‘Palestinians should have the freedom to leave”
So, Ethnic Cleansing then?
It seems that in 2025, international law and a rules based order is now utterly meaningless
In other news, Dr Crippen nominated Harold Shipman for the Medicine Prize.
It seems that in 2025, international law and a rules based order is now utterly meaningless
But to be fair there are only two countries which don't have to comply with international law , everyone else is expected to.
I have no doubt what should happen to these ****s anymore, jail time will never be served by these genocide enablers so I can only hope for natural justice
https://twitter.com/SecRubio/status/1942998936874054046
Yeah United States and Israel are now firmly in the hands of criminals. That of course is appalling but what is equally appalling, or maybe even more appalling, is how the rest of the world of the world is so unwilling to uphold the rule of law.
Any governments with any sort of moral integrity should be announcing full support for the United Nations Human Rights Council and imposing sanctions on Marco Rubio.
Yeah United States and Israel are now firmly in the hands of criminals. That of course is appalling but what is equally appalling, or maybe even more appalling, is how the rest of the world of the world is so unwilling to uphold the rule of law.
Not only that but busy helping with the enterprise. I saw that in Holland the cctv footage of rioting Israeli thugs has mysteriously disappeared so they cannot be prosecuted. It makes you think!
What I don't get is, seeing that the Israeli Army have been so effective in Iran, how come they have only managed to kill 5% of the Gaza population in this so-called 'Genocide' ?
If they are aiming at Genocide why issue evacuation orders before bombing buildings, surely they should just leave them in the building ?
Hamas's attempt at genocide, which would have been better if they had managed to coordinate the attack with Hezbollah as they were trying to, didn't issue any warnings and seems to have been a lot more effective in terms of people killed in a short time. They also managed to pack a lot more war crimes into a short timeframe as well.
It seems like issueing warnings/evacuation orders is not a smart strategy, I am surprised no one has been fired over it.
I’m
What I don't get is, seeing that the Israeli Army have been so effective in Iran, how come they have only managed to kill 5% of the Gaza population in this so-called 'Genocide' ?
Are you trying to be a ****?,
Are you trying to be a ****?,
no, just trying to question a narrative that appears to be extremely dubious and more like just virtue signalling.
92% of residential properties destroyed yet only 5% (and that is using the higher estimate mentioned on the previous page) of the population killed, and the percentage is a lot lower if you remove the Hamas fighters.
And that percentage would be lower if everyone actually evacuated from an area that had an evacuation notice against it, like they did in Iran, instead of some of them staying behind to be martyred - saw reporter footage only yesterday of casualties in a bombed area where eye witnesses confirmed that they had been evacuation warnings issued. Even if I was determined to stay in my apartment block, I'd probably move out of the area to see if a bomb hit it and then move back afterwards, rather than stay there and ride it out.
Posted by: gravedigger
Are you trying to be a ****?,
no, just trying to question a narrative that appears to be extremely dubious and more like just virtue signalling.
Username checks out
how come they have only managed to kill 5% of the Gaza population in this so-called 'Genocide' ?
I reckon you either don't understand what the term genocide actually means or you are deliberately trying to misinterpret it.
This is the United Nations definition of genocide and the one used under international law :
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. It involves acts like killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction, imposing measures to prevent births, or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
And it is the reason why an international arrest warrant has been issued for Netanyahu. What is currently occurring in Gaza is without doubt a genocide.
And that percentage would be lower if everyone actually evacuated from an area that had an evacuation notice against it, like they did in Iran, instead of some of them staying behind to be martyred - saw reporter footage only yesterday of casualties in a bombed area where eye witnesses confirmed that they had been evacuation warnings issued.
I think Somafunk is on the money here with regards to your comment.
Gaza is not Iran, it is a tiny strip of land with over 2 million people on it, they have nowhere to evacuate to. The orders to evacuate are designed to instill nazi-style terror, the IDF knows full well that there is nowhere safe for them to evacuate to, they have made very certain of that.
Next you will no doubt suggest that it is the fault of starving Palestinians for being shot dead by the IDF for not dispersing, you do after all appear to be regurgitating IDF shite.
With reference to the above United Nations definition of genocide and this point :
imposing measures to prevent births, or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The Israelis are not bothering with transferring Palestinian children for adoption by other groups, they are just killing them.
What I don't get is, seeing that the Israeli Army have been so effective in Iran, how come they have only managed to kill 5% of the Gaza population in this so-called 'Genocide' ?
If they are aiming at Genocide why issue evacuation orders before bombing buildings, surely they should just leave them in the building ?
Hamas's attempt at genocide, which would have been better if they had managed to coordinate the attack with Hezbollah as they were trying to, didn't issue any warnings and seems to have been a lot more effective in terms of people killed in a short time. They also managed to pack a lot more war crimes into a short timeframe as well.
It seems like issueing warnings/evacuation orders is not a smart strategy, I am surprised no one has been fired over it.
According to dictionary definitions, 'genocide' is defined as killing a large number of a population in order to destroy that community or nation. It doesn't have to be a majority, and there are no defined proportions or percentages that need to be killed in order for it to qualify as genocide. It can also be about forcing people from a land in order to destroy that national identity. What we are seeing most definitely qualifies as genocide. Unless you're part of the fascist regime of Israel or apologists for them. Genocide is all aobut destroying a people, a nation, an identity, and Israel are definitely trying to do that.
Hamas never attempted 'genocide', in spite of what their aims ultimately are. They merely wanted to rape, torture and murder a significant number of Israelis. Hamas are genocidal in their intent, but not through their actions (a matter of resources, quite simply; Hamas' leaders would happily nuke Israel if they could). Israel could not perform the genocide that they are, without US and UK assistance. Therefore, the USA and UK (and other nations) are complicit in genocide. Obviously leaders of those nations don't want to be considered as such, which is why they are so reticent to call it what it is. Doesn't change the fact they are most definitely complicit in genocide, though.
As for the 'warnings'; this is reported in media outlets favourable to Israel, but how often are they made, if they happen at all? And how much time do people actually have, to flee? And we know for a fact that Israeli forces have murdered many thousands of Gazans attempting to flee, or trying to get food aid. Now the relatively (and I use that term cautiously) low number of deaths proportionate to the volume of buildings destroyed, may suggest that Israeli forces are issuing 'warnings', but destruction of a nation's infrastructure, peoples' homes, is still included in the definition of genocide. Of course, we don't actually know the true death toll, it could be higher even than the 'Hamas' figures. Perhaps we will never know.
To talk of Hamas 'packing in a lot more war crimes in a short space of time' does highlight the fact that Hams operatives committed such acts, there is documented evidence of this. The Israeli forces however are much more careful in covering their traces, so we cannot begin to know the full extent of the reality of what they are doing. But we do know it's horrific and extensive. It's not a championship of who can commit more war crimes; any war crimes are horrific and evil. Saying 'oh but Hamas/Israel/IDF' etc is utterly pointless and unhelpful. It's all bad.
What Israel does have to it's 'advantage', is a massive system of what they call 'intelligence'. A large proportion of conscripted service personnel work in 'intelligence'. 'Intelligence' in this context involves gathering front line information, intercepting radio and electronic communications, jamming such communications and helping to create a particular narrrative to feed to the rest of the world. Individual personnel will have little to no idea about what the 'intelligence' they are gathering actually means, less how it may ultimately be used. For eg; it might be a mobile 'phone conversation between a husband and wife, which security forces will then manipulate and selectively edit to try to show that 'terrorist activity' is being planned.This will then be used as justification for bombing a residential area, or a hospital etc. Of course, some of it may be genuine terrorist activity, but I suspect very little indeed. But it's worth knowing how ordinary Israelis are used as pawns in this whole nasty game; I have female relatives who have worked in 'intelligence'; they don't put the girls on the front line generally, but in this case they are like worker bees or ants; the individual is insignificant compared to the whole. As for front line troops; they are often selected from poorer/less advantaged backgrounds, and tend to be less European and more Middle Eastern in ethnic origin. This shows the extent of just how racist Israeli society is, even to its 'own'. The nice white middle class kids are kept well away from the horrors. Add in heavy state censorship and control of media, in the 'only democracy in the Middle East', and you have a population who are largely ignorant of what is actually going on. Hence the support the Israeli government continues to get. Genocide cannot exist without controlling people's minds. It's all about Intelligence.
So what is Israel suppossed to do, back off and leave the rest of the tunnel network in place, and leave Hamas in place and armed so they will rebuild and do exactly the same thing again in a few years, as their track record shows that they will do?
And how come the palastinians that live in Israel, dating from 1948, are OK - if there is a genocide against Palastinians then why aren't they being targetted as well, there are 2.1 million of them, all not living in apartied conditions. It's not going to be a genocide unless they are targetted as well.
Why isn't there anywhere for the Gazans to go, in any other war refugees flee to neighbouring coutries but they can't here as their friendly neighbouring Arabs have bordering walls that are more significant than the ones Israel put up.
Why even do the Gazans need to be moved around - anything to do with Hamas building the tunnel network instead of getting on with the job of governing Gaza?
Perhaps if they built decent temporary accomodation for the Gazans whilst they destroyed the tunnels and flushed Hamas out and told them that they would be employed, and therefore earning, in the rebuilding of Gaza, without the tunnels, perhaps using money siezed from the leaders of Hamas, which is billions (how did they come to have so much money???) then they might see a Hamas free path and help give Hamas up.
Are you trying to be a ****?
Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends if it just comes naturally.
So what is Israel suppossed to do
Oh I dunno - maybe obey UN resolutions and international law and agree to live in peace with a fully functional Palestinian state, like any reasonable state would do.
So what is Israel suppossed to do, back off and leave the rest of the tunnel network in place, and leave Hamas in place and armed so they will rebuild and do exactly the same thing again in a few years, as their track record shows that they will do?
And how come the palastinians that live in Israel, dating from 1948, are OK - if there is a genocide against Palastinians then why aren't they being targetted as well, there are 2.1 million of them, all not living in apartied conditions. It's not going to be a genocide unless they are targetted as well.
they are being targeted - killed and forced off their land in the west bank and in other places. Its obvious the aim is to get rid of all the Palestinians
Israel might have had a right or even a need to defend itself, this does not include deliberately targeting civilians at food distribution points, deliberately killing all the medical staff, using starvation as a collective punishment etc etc
So what is Israel suppossed to do, back off and leave the rest of the tunnel network in place, and leave Hamas in place and armed so they will rebuild and do exactly the same thing again in a few years, as their track record shows that they will do?
Israel could start by not continuing to try to illegally seize Palestinian land, and murder innocent people including children. Hamas exists because the Israeli state has repeatedly prevented Palestinians from forming any sort of reasonable democratic government, leaving Palestinians with no leadership. This inevitably leads to violent reaction which the Israeli state wants as it can then justify more oppression and murder.
Palestinians living in Israel are not ‘ok’. For one, they really are living in apartheid conditions, as Israeli law actually puts Jews above all others. So gentiles do not have the same rights and privileges as Jews, in Israel. This is fact.
Why should Palestinians go anywhere? Would you demand Israelis be forced form their homes? Gaza is their home, their land, Palestine is their nation. Israel is the aggressor and the invader. Israel needs to withdraw from Gaza completely. It is not their country and they have no right to be there.
If Israel doesn’t murder Palestinians, there is no tunnel network. It’s really quite simple.
Perhaps if Israel just withdraws from Gaza, and removes its illegal settlements in the WestBank, and recognises the Palestinian state, stops murdering innocent people and respects international law, then we won’t be having to have stupid conversations like this one.
Why isn't there anywhere for the Gazans to go, in any other war refugees flee to neighbouring coutries but they can't here as their friendly neighbouring Arabs have bordering walls that are more significant than the ones Israel put up.
Okay I am starting to see the problem here, you obviously don't know anything about the subject nor the history behind it.
There are approximately 15 million Palestinians in the world and the majority of them are actually refugees. Of the over 8 million Palestinian refugees more than half are stateless.
The reason for this state of affairs is that Israel was built on a lie. And that lie was, "a land without a people for a people without a land".
Palestine is slap bang in the middle of the Fertile Crescent, the actual birthplace of human civilization. The idea there was no one living there is patently absurd, people have been living there for at least 12 thousand years.
So Western colonialists and settlers started driving the indigenous people off their land (where have we heard that before?) eighty years ago.
And now we are where we are today......colonial settlers establishing and expanding their settlements throughout the region backed up of course with regular massacres against mostly unarmed people.
The European powers abandoned naked colonialism with settlers and regular massacres in the last century, the United States and Israel still obviously have a passion for it.
How ****ing utterly pathetic
We've been banned from advertising on the London Tube.
How petty can political policing and interference get... After using the tube to advertise loads of times for gigs, records and our movie, all without issue.
The below poster has been rejected because: "it is likely to cause widespread or serious offence to reasonable members of the public on account of the product or service being advertised, the content or design of the advertisement, or by way of implication."
Speak out against genocide and they'll use every single angle they can to silence you.
Join the IDF, murder kids, fly to London and nothing happens - you'll be welcomed and applauded.
https://twitter.com/KNEECAPCEOL/status/1943309572434804757
Meanwhile we have this…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gd01g1gxro
Why isn't there anywhere for the Gazans to go, in any other war refugees flee to neighbouring coutries but they can't here as their friendly neighbouring Arabs have bordering walls that are more significant than the ones Israel put up.
Okay I am starting to see the problem here, you obviously don't know anything about the subject nor the history behind it.
Sorry, but if we're talking about understanding history, I must pull you up on this bit:
The reason for this state of affairs is that Israel was built on a lie. And that lie was, "a land without a people for a people without a land".
According to Google, this was a phrase attributed to Christian Evangelists, and was never something any Jewish people ever said. As for it being a 'lie'; all borders and nationalities are based on 'lies', ultimately. If you are trying to suggest Jewish people have no claim to that land, or right to live there, then that becomes extremely contentious and tbh isn't worth getting into, as we can then argue about the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the whole of South America, etc. There is historic evidence that practising Jews lived in that area of the Middle East, thousands of years ago. Whilst I don't personally support the notion of being part of a religious group affording you certain rights and privileges over others, many Jewish people hold that notion as a core part of their cultural identity. Neither you, nor I or anyone else gets to dictate to anyone else about their identity.
Palestine is slap bang in the middle of the Fertile Crescent, the actual birthplace of human civilization. The idea there was no one living there is patently absurd, people have been living there for at least 12 thousand years.
And before any Muslims existed, many of the people living there were Jews.
So Western colonialists and settlers started driving the indigenous people off their land (where have we heard that before?) eighty years ago.
Many of those 'indigenous people' were Jews. Most of those forced from their homeland were Muslims. But it was the British who orchestrated the colonisation.
And now we are where we are today......colonial settlers establishing and expanding their settlements throughout the region backed up of course with regular massacres against mostly unarmed people.
All aided and abetted by those same Western powers who sought to establish a Western controlled stonghold in the region, in order to suppress and subjugate the indigenous peoples and better control the flow of money from the exploitation of natural resources. Israel must be seen in the wider context, as part of modern Western Imperialism, rather than a 'Zionist' project.
The European powers abandoned naked colonialism with settlers and regular massacres in the last century, the United States and Israel still obviously have a passion for it.
The UK has been (largely indirectly) responsible for far more imperialism in the last 80 years than Israel. And is continuing to support it to this day. We're just more subtle about the murders committed in our name.
According to Google, this was a phrase attributed to Christian Evangelists
I am not talking about the "phrase", I am talking about the lie. The lie is that no one was living there, that phrase simply sums it up in a nice catchy slogan.
And before any Muslims existed, many of the people living there were Jews.
And? What on earth has that got to do with anything? Do you think Muslims arrived on an alien spaceship?
The semitic people of the Fertile Crescent have followed a variety of religions through the course of history, including Christianity, Roman paganism following the Great Jewish Revolt, and Islam.
Neither you, nor I or anyone else gets to dictate to anyone else about their identity.
Have you turned on the news lately? Quite a lot of dictating about folks' identity going on, mostly at the end of an Israeli (or is that Jewish, it's so confusing?) gun. Or bomb. Or drone.
According to Google, this was a phrase attributed to Christian Evangelists
I am not talking about the "phrase", I am talking about the lie. The lie is that no one was living there, that phrase simply sums it up in a nice catchy slogan.
But that's got nothing to do with the actual formation of the modern state of Israel. You can use terms like 'lies' pejoratively if you wish, but it doesn't really strengthen your argument any. Nobody alive in modern Israel today is responsible for a phrase attributed to Christian Evangelists over 150 years ago. There has existed a belief for thousands of years, that Jews shall one day return to 'their' homeland. L'Shana Haba'ah B'Yerushalayim predates the prhase you've decided is the foundation of modern Israel, by quite a bit.
And before any Muslims existed, many of the people living there were Jews.
And? What on earth has that got to do with anything? Do you think Muslims arrived on an alien spaceship?
As you seemed keen to 'educate' another poster on Israel, I thought it only right to include facts you'd chosen to omit, in the interests of historical accuracy.
I thought it only right to include facts you'd chosen to omit, in the interests of historical accuracy.
You thought not everyone might have been aware that there were no Muslims among the semitic people before the birth of the Prophet Muhammad ?
As I previously said Palestine along with the rest of the Fertile Crescent has been inhabited by people for at least 12 thousand years.
The recent arrivals from mostly western countries have attempted to perpetuate the "empty land myth" much loved by colonialists and settlers to justify their land grabs from indigenous people. In the case of Palestine an early exponent of the myth was Mark Twain and the deeply dishonest slogan "a land without a people for a people without a land" was enthusiastically embraced by zionists.
And the slogan is deeply dishonest on multiple levels, eg the idea that an American Jew, for example, can't acquire land or property in the USA and should therefore be entitled to drive a Palestinian family off their land or property in Palestine is patently absurd.
I actually don't know what you're arguing about now. Getting fixated on something someone said over 150 years ago is kind of pointless really. Whatever your personal feelings about the 'validity' of the existence of the State of Israel, that's an insignificant irrelevance, as what is important now is finding a way to stop genocide. Continuing with hateful rhetoric, and suggesting that some are more entitled to something than others, and that some lives are more important in your mind than others is pretty much identical to how the very people you despise, think. Not exactly getting us anywhere, is it?
I actually don't know what you're arguing about now.
LOL! I am not arguing about anything, I am simply pointing out the historical fact that the "empty land myth" has been used to justify grabbing land from the Palestinian people, it's you that appears to be in some sort of arguing mode.
Continuing with hateful rhetoric, and suggesting that some are more entitled to something than others, and that some lives are more important in your mind than others
So it is "hateful rhetoric" to point out that an American from Brooklyn does not have the right to kick a Palestinian family off their land, and I am suggesting that some lives are more important than others? Get a grip.
Btw I really can't get over how the content and style of your posts completely mirrors a previous poster on here, he seemed to be tormented over Gaza by the divided loyalty of being a Muslim married to a Jewish woman with family in Israel, I know that you claim to know quite a few Israelis but do you actually know any Muslims?
