So to get this straight, that after the exodus from Egypt, the 'Jews' fled to Canaan -the so called 'promised land',encompassing where they proceeded to murder every man, woman and child living there to claim the land as their own.
Canaan encompasses roughly the territory of present-day Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, and parts of Syria.
The biblical account -
The current Israeli finance minister is a very strong supporter of Greater Israel and passionately argues the case for it.
Edited as fact checking did not back up a claim
I actually don't know what you're arguing about now.
LOL! I am not arguing about anything, I am simply pointing out the historical fact that the "empty land myth" has been used to justify grabbing land from the Palestinian people, it's you that appears to be in some sort of arguing mode.
But what's the point of continuing to spout the same tired old tropes that have been used for many decades now? A quote from a 19th-century Evangelical Christian isn't why the modern state of Israel was formed. Even if you wrongly believe that to be the case. So it's irrelevant to keep saying it.
Continuing with hateful rhetoric, and suggesting that some are more entitled to something than others, and that some lives are more important in your mind than others
So it is "hateful rhetoric" to point out that an American from Brooklyn does not have the right to kick a Palestinian family off their land, and I am suggesting that some lives are more important than others? Get a grip.
Where did I say anyone had the right to do such? I haven't said that at all. YOU, on the other hand, have expressed the sentiment that certain lives are worth more than others. Which to me, is eerily similar to certain extremist groups worldwide. Particularly those you claim to be vehemently opposed to.
Btw I really can't get over how the content and style of your posts completely mirrors a previous poster on here, he seemed to be tormented over Gaza by the divided loyalty of being a Muslim married to a Jewish woman with family in Israel, I know that you claim to know quite a few Israelis but do you actually know any Muslims?
This is now getting into the realms of personal attack, and is really quite bizarre. Resorting to such ad hominems betrays the paucity of your own arguments. My personal life has absolutely nothing to do with you. If you wish to actually discuss the issues in a civil matter, I'm happy to debate with you, but if you're going to just go on the attack (as it's clear you have little in the way of 'defence'), then I shall not be interacting with you.
So to get this straight, that after the exodus from Egypt, the 'Jews' fled to Canaan -the so called 'promised land',encompassing where they proceeded to murder every man, woman and child living there to claim the land as their own.
Canaan encompasses roughly the territory of present-day Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, and parts of Syria.
The biblical account -
"Command to Destroy:The Book of Deuteronomy describes a divine command to utterly destroy the Canaanite inhabitants and their culture to prevent them from corrupting the Israelites with their idolatry"Justification indeed, when you want to steal someone elses land
Again, I think drawing from ancient scripture as the 'reasons' why the current situation exists, is really quite pointless. Whilst some fundamentalists might be guided by such, the majority of Jewish people globally don't think like that. The majority aren't even all that religious really; celebrating Jewish culture is much more to do with identity than it is about ancient beliefs. The current genocide is a result of Western imperialism, and has little to do with the Old Testament. Which is why we need to move away from the smokescreen of religious animosity. Fundamentalists in Israel are being manipulated by those who wish to see us all divided and in fear of one another. Makes us all easier to rule and control. One could argue that Christian Evangelism has more to do with it all than Judaism.
As for 'stealing someone else's land'; I'm not seeing the weekly demonstrations opposing the White European colonisation of North America, or Australia, New Zealand etc. I'm not seeing the outcries of demands to give those lands back to indigenous people. No; the illegal land-grab by Israeli settlers is utterly abhorrent and wrong, and yes, vast swathes of land should rightly be given back to the Palestinian people. I think we're all pretty much in agreement here. As we sit here typing away furiously on devices containing components made from raw materials extracted from lands where the indigenous people often have little to no say over such exploitation. Human history is rife with such colonialism; why is it some are only interested in Israel's? Ah....
But what's the point of continuing to spout the same tired old tropes that have been used for many decades now? A quote from a 19th-century Evangelical Christian isn't why the modern state of Israel was formed. Even if you wrongly believe that to be the case. So it's irrelevant to keep saying it.
Maybe you should have a word with renowned Israeli historian Ilan Pappe who, like me, believes that reminding people of the colonial-settler "empty land myth" is very relevant today, he discussed it in his book which is currently in print.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Myths-About-Israel-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1804297046
In this groundbreaking book, the outspoken and radical Israeli historian Ilan Pappe examines the most contested ideas concerning the origins and identity of the contemporary state of Israel. This has been updated with a new afterword on the 2023 invasion of Gaza.
1. Palestine was an Empty Land
2. The Jews were a people with out a land
3. Zionism is Judaism
4. Zionism is not Colonialism
5. The Palestinians Voluntarily Left their Homelands in 1948
6. The June 1967 War was a war of 'No Choice'
7. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East
8. The Myths about the Oslo Agreement
9. The Lies we tell about Gaza
10. The two state solution is the only way forward
Look at the two top myths according to the Israeli historian.
This is now getting into the realms of personal attack
That's really taking the biscuit considering that you have launched a personal attack on me because I dared to point out that Israel was built on the lie of an empty land.
Anyway since you believe that claiming you know some Israelis somehow strengthens your argument then I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask if you know any Muslims.
As I said, there was a guy previously on this thread who was a Muslim married to a Jewish woman and claimed to have relatives in Israel, he tried his very best to project a position of neutrality with regards to this conflict, you seem to be doing exactly the same.
Personally I don't take positions of neutrality in cases of genocide. And I make no apologies for that.
This is now getting into the realms of personal attack
That's really taking the biscuit considering that you have launched a personal attack on me because I dared to point out that Israel was built on the lie of an empty land.
Anyway since you believe that claiming you know some Israelis somehow strengthens your argument then I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask if you know any Muslims.
As I said, there was a guy previously on this thread who was a Muslim married to a Jewish woman and claimed to have relatives in Israel, he tried his very best to project a position of neutrality with regards to this conflict, you seem to be doing exactly the same.
Personally I don't take positions of neutrality in cases of genocide. And I make no apologies for that.
What I'm curious about, is that although we clearly share a lot of views regarding Israeli state and the actions of its military, you seem to keen to attack me simply because I challenge certain aspects of your narrative. I have no idea who the person to whom you are referring is, and as I've said, my personal life is none of your concern. You don't get to ask me questions that aren't pertinent to this discussion, who the hell do you think you are? And for the record; I did not launch a 'personal attack' on you, I merely challenged your outdated assertion of a tired old trope.
It's very clear that in any discussions about such contentious subjects, that there will be very shrill minorities on both sides, who seek to dominate and enforce their own views and narratives, and who will immediately attack anyone who dares question them. So many such discussions then becomes sidetracked with arguments and attacks, and anyone who did actually want to discuss anything in a civil matter ends up becoming disillusioned and gives up. Leaving only the shrill minorities shouting at each other. And nothing ever gets solved. This thread is just one example; it's really just 2 or 3 individuals who wish to control the narrative, and woe betide any dissenters.
But the rest of us really can have a proper discussion, if we ignore the extremists.
Personally I don't take positions of neutrality in cases of genocide. And I make no apologies for that.
Good for you. I bet that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Doesn't actually solve anything, buy hey; as long as you're feeling righteous whilst kids are being murdered, eh?
. I bet that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
🤣 At least try to change your style if you want to remain incognito!
But the rest of us really can have a proper discussion, if we ignore the extremists.
"The rest" have given up. Most people know and say that the government of Isreal is in the wrong, that they are asking their armed forces to carry out crimes against humanity. Both as regards the ethnic cleansing and flattening of Gaza, and the illegal and violent settler expansion in the West Bank. The line that keeps people away from this thread is the suggestion (or more) that Isreal shouldn't exist... when no one says that Russia shouldn't exist, or the USA, or ****stan, or any other country whose government uses war to further their own ends. That's the discussion that creeps people out, and means this thread is left to "extremists", as you put it.
Maybe you should have a word with renowned Israeli historian Ilan Pappe who, like me, believes that reminding people of the colonial-settler "empty land myth" is very relevant today, he discussed it in his book which is currently in print.
So in the second chapter, 'A People Without A Land', Pappé writes:
"The ominous signs of how these seemingly religious and mythical beliefs might turn into a real program of colonization and dispossession appeared in Victorian Britain as early as the 1820s. A powerful theological and imperial movement emerged that would put the return of the Jews to Palestine at the heart of a strategic plan to take over Palestine and turn it into a Christian entity. In the nineteenth century, this sentiment became ever more popular in Britain and affected the official imperial policy: “The soil of Palestine ... only awaits for the return of her banished children, and the application of industry, commensurate with agricultural capabilities, to burst once more _ into universal luxuriance, and be all that she ever was in the days of Solomon.”© Thus wrote the Scottish peer and military commander John Lindsay. This sentiment was echoed by David Hartley, an English philosopher, who wrote: “It is probable that the Jews will be reinitiated in Palestine.”/
The process was not wholly successful before it received the support of the United States. Here, too, there was a history of endorsing the idea of a Jewish nation having the right to return to Palestine and build a Zion. At the same time as Protestants in Europe articulated these views, they appeared in a similar form across the Atlantic. The American president, John Adams (1735-1826), stated: “I really wish the Jews again in Judea as an independent nation.”® A simple history of ideas leads directly from the preaching fathers of this movement to those with the power to change the fate of Palestine. Foremost among them was Lord Shaftesbury (1801-85), a leading British politician and reformer, who campaigned actively for a Jewish homeland in Palestine. His arguments for a greater British presence in Palestine were both religious and strategic.”
It's clear that nobody with actual knowledge believed Palestine was empty. That was myth perpetuated by those with a vested interest in establishing a Jewish homeland, not for benevolent reasons, but for power and influence in the region. That must be seen as distinct and separate to the earlyZionist movement. It is, in essence, Western non-Jewish construct. This is what I've been getting at in previous posts. So to speak of it in reference other modern day Israel is disingenuous and misleading. By the time of the formation of the State of Israel in 1948, such a myth had largely been forgotten. Hence why it's irrelevant to use it now to justify your use of the term 'lie' when referring to the formation of modern Israel. You'd have realised this had you actually read Pappé's work.
So now we have established the reality of why the West (mainly the USA and the UK) have supported Israel for so long, we can start to understand the machinations of Western colonialism. And why our governments are traditionally so unwilling to challenge Israel and complicit in genocide. And also, why Jeremy Corbyn had to be stopped at all costs. Which is why the focus should not be so much on Israel, its people or even its government but on our own leaders. Because without their complicity, Israel could not perform as it does. But it serves the interests of our governments and their global corporate supporters, for people to continue hating 'Israel;' and blindly continue with the 'good vs evil ' populist narrative. The way to achieve change in Israel and Palestine, is through achieving political change here and in the USA. But while the gravy train of war and human bondage continues, so Palestine will never be free. We have to break the cycle, starting here. I think people are really starting to get why Palestine Action were proscribed; the smoke is starting to clear, and people are removing the scales from their own eyes.
But the rest of us really can have a proper discussion, if we ignore the extremists.
"The rest" have given up. Most people know and say that the government of Isreal is in the wrong, that they are asking their armed forces to carry out crimes against humanity. Both as regards the ethnic cleansing and flattening of Gaza, and the illegal and violent settler expansion in the West Bank. The line that keeps people away from this thread is the suggestion (or more) that Isreal shouldn't exist... when no one says that Russia shouldn't exist, or the USA, or ****stan, or any other country whose government uses war to further their own ends. That's the discussion that creeps people out, and means this thread is left to "extremists", as you put it.
Exactly. Well put. The more vocal on this thread may well have something of value to input, but they have to accept this is a discussion, and others are allowed to hold different views and opinions, and challenge assertions they don't agree with. But it's a pattern that's common across the internet; for example, if you challenge a call to 'boycott Israel', say by arguing that a blanket boycott actually hurts Palestinians as many Israeli lawyers, doctors, academics etc who actively stand for Palestinian rights end up being cancelled, you get screamed at and accused of being a baby-killing Zionist or something. Unhelpful. Such people just don't seem to possess the ability, the emotional intelligence to understand that we don't all think exactly alike, and there are myriad shades of grey. As I said; hating is easy. Understanding takes a lot more effort.
As an aside; it's kind of disturbing that the over-zealous swear filter stars out the first part of P a k i stan. That needs attention I'd say. AI gone too woke?
Some poor Jewish lad, victim of an inhumane system
I think people are really starting to get why Palestine Action were proscribed; the smoke is starting to clear, and people are removing the scales from their own eyes.
Waves at hanch 🖐️
Israels acts with total impunity and is planning on building a concentration camp but hey……….Hanch has something to say about posts on the forum
Israels acts with total impunity and is planning on building a concentration camp but hey……….Hanch has something to say about posts on the forum
You just say that because you lack emotional intelligence. Or maybe there are <lowers voice> "other reasons" !!!
China has its 50 cent propaganda army, I imagine the Israel propaganda gig is better paid.
I particularly enjoyed the AI written posts in the football thread to build up your forum presence, and AI is getting better, but there are still tells.
That's the discussion that creeps people out, and means this thread is left to "extremists", as you put it.
What I find quite creepy is labelling those who want a secular democratic Palestine for all "extremists".
What do you call the current UK government's position of supporting a genocidal apartheid regime......"moderate"?
That sort of moral logic fits nicely in an alternative universe where those who starve and murder children are not labelled terrorists and actually helped, but those who spray paint on stationary aircraft are labelled terrorists and risk prosecution.
Wanting countries to be secular is an honourable cause I agree with. Talking about wanting the destruction of Israel, but none of the other states born out of western imperialism, will drive people away from the thread to avoid engaging. That’s understandable.
What do you mean by "the destruction of Israel" ?
It doesn't bother me in the slightest if Israel exists, it is the abhorrent political system which I want to see the end of. Call Palestine Israel if you will, Israel is after all mentioned approximately 43 times in the Quran, it's the racist apartheid system which I want to see end of.
My opposition to apartheid in South Africa wasn't based on wanting "the destruction of South Africa".
will drive people away from the thread to avoid engaging. That’s understandable.
What a disingenuous comment. You know full well that If criticism of Israel is now mostly unchallenged on this thread it is because Israel is involved in a horrific genocide.
Engaging with those who criticise Israel (which now appears to be most human beings who have an opinion on the matter) is always going to be a pointless task because it is impossible to defend the indefensible. That’s understandable.
video clip is 3min long
Speaking to the New York Times, Jewish actors Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody heavily criticised Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his policies in Gaza.
The pair spoke out against the conflation of criticism of Israel's government with antisemitism and said Netanyahu's actions were "endangering Jewish people" around the world.
Patinkin implored Jewish people to question "how it could be done to you and your ancestors, and you turn around and do it to someone else
Complete 50min video of interview below
The pair spoke out against the conflation of criticism of Israel's government with antisemitism and said Netanyahu's actions were "endangering Jewish people" around the world
I think Netenyahu and co have been doing it for so long…. creating an alternative reality where the Israeli regime is the brave and plucky underdog fighting a tide of antisemitism, rather than the genocidal industrial killing machine it has become… that they now actually believe the ridiculous world they’ve created
Whereas if you’re outside the land of make believe of their bunker, things look very different
that they now actually believe the ridiculous world they’ve created
When you are taught it in schools and brought up led to believe nothing else that is always going to be the way.
That level of anger expressed by Mandy Patinkin in the first clip is something which I have regularly seen among Jews who are critical of Israel's genocide in Gaza.
I have been to meetings in support of Palestine where Jewish speakers have been the most emotional and angry. And for very good reasons.
that they now actually believe the ridiculous world they’ve created
When you are taught it in schools and brought up led to believe nothing else that is always going to be the way.
People are essentially like sheep; they want to be led. It's far easier to just do what you're told, than to have to think for yourself. The UK is no different in this regard really; see: Brexit. But yes; Israeli state propaganda and the control of media is a lot more insidious and overreaching than it is most in other places. Israelis I talk to say how they are constantly having to relay factual information to family and friends there, as they're just not seeing it on their TVs etc. Haaretz, the Israeli version of the Guardian, is one of the few lone voices of dissent in anyway (and even then it's very careful in its coverage), but like the Guardian, it isn't read by all that many people outside of a wealthy middle class elite. It's important to always look for parallels between societies, as the reality is that the UK is not so far off where Israel is right now; as mentioned, we've had Brexit, and are now seeing the bleak probability of a far-right wing government in just a few years. Understanding just how easily led people are, is key to being able to affect any form of political change.
We in Britain also have to acknowledge that our society is a lot more socially liberal than much of the rest of the world, it might not seem like it but most nations are far more conservative in their social structures. Our education system, particularly at university level, has been far more open and diverse in nature, than that which exists in many other countries. Britain is still at the forefront of global intellectualism. Yet in spite of that, we're witnessing political regression. So shifting back to Israel, which has not enjoyed such intellectual and social diversity, it's easy to see why so many people gladly follow the mainstream political doctrine. But Israel is not that different to many other countries; we've seen the election of far-right wing governments in places like Hungary, Poland, Italy and of course now the USA. The cause of all this is very complex, but the bottom line is that people are kept in the dark, fearful of others, and that xenophobia is manipulated to control.
Another aspect is that people are also essentially tribal; we all have an inherent human desire to belong to something, a group, a community, a nation. In a secular society such as ours, we seek out other like-minded people who share our own political and social ideals and opinions. It's heartening to see most people apparently opposing the genocide in Palestine right now. But this has brought with it its own form of tribalism; there are myriad 'pro-Palestine' groups and organisations, but of course it's always the more extreme, vocal ones that seem to gain prominence. They will use extremely graphic imagery, and highly emotive language, with little subtlety or nuance, to push their own agendas. And in all of this noise, it's easy for insidious divisive rhetoric to slip in unnoticed. And then, individuals become too afraid to speak out against things they aren't comfortable with, lest they become ostracised and ejected from the 'tribe'. So the more extreme views are challenged less and less. And those most vociferous will attempt to shout down any dissent lest it weaken the tribe; as we've seen demonstrated so perfectly on this very thread.
In essence, we aren't so different, people. We in the UK aren't so different from most Israelis, when it all boils down. Which is why we should be looking for that which unites us, not divides us. If more Israelis understood just how much support they have globally, then perhaps more would find the courage to speak out there. Whilst all they see is shrill hysteria constantly attacking 'them', they will remain in their ideological bunkers.
It's important to always look for parallels between societies, as the reality is that the UK is not so far off where Israel is right now
Well, you speak for yourself, but personally I'm quite a way off from going out and shooting a child in the head.
It's important to always look for parallels between societies, as the reality is that the UK is not so far off where Israel is right now
Well, you speak for yourself, but personally I'm quite a way off from going out and shooting a child in the head.
Plenty of British troops have committed war crimes in various parts of the world in the last couple of decades. I think you misunderstood the point that we are all capable of unspeakable things, if indoctrinated enough. I'm guessing you've not ben subjected to social indoctrination from birth, so probably impossible to relate. It's very easy to say something when you've never been exposed to a certain situation. In Rwanda, an estimated half a million men were murdered, often by close neighbours, and an comparable number of women raped. It's easy to sit there form the comfort of your armchair, and claim you wouldn't' do this or that. Ordinary human beings carry out the most horrific atrocities; you cannot say you would never be cable of such yourself.
As I said; easy to hate, much harder to actually understand.
- Blimey, these bots don’t half go on
I struggle with long sentences!
- Blimey, these bots don’t half go on
I struggle with long sentences!
Good point, well made.
Hanchenkuchen - maybe you should just write "I support Israel!" in all your posts from now on, because that's all anyone appears to be able to translate them as.
🙄
- Blimey, these bots don’t half go on
I struggle with long sentences!
Good point, well made.
Hanchenkuchen - maybe you should just write "I support Israel!" in all your posts from now on, because that's all anyone appears to be able to translate them as.
🙄
I can't be held responsible for others' lack of comprehension and ignorance. You'd have to be particularly thick to think that I support 'Israel', given my posts here. I think some people are incapable of reading properly, given the amount of vitriol I'm receiving. But it doesn't bother me; that some have no course of action other than to abuse and attempt to smear just shows how shallow and empty their own arguments are. What's at the root of it is the fact that they haven't actually ever really sat down and considered their own chosen tribalism; to admit flaws in their decision making process, and the choices they've made, would be to admit weakness. And as soon as the weakness of their position is exposed, they react angrily. It's common, in such debates. Which is why it's good to weed out the shrill bullies from the start, so that actual sensible discussion can be held.
As I said, there's many layers of nuance, many shades of grey. But some can only see things in absolute black and white terms. Which is why their arguments don't get them anywhere. They aren't interested in actually listening, or engaging with dialogue they just have an insecure need to be heard. Even if they've got nothing of any value to say.
For those who are actually interested in listening and learning, this is a good podcast series. It's by two Israelis, so will automatically be dismissed as 'hasbara' by some of the hard of thinking. But for those who are open-minded, it's actually very enlightening:
https://open.spotify.com/show/5CT8QicPO31pe7AX0jA4Wp
You'd have to be particularly thick to think that I support 'Israel', given my posts here.
Guess that makes me thick then. Suspect I am not alone.
Would be better to just provide the prompts being entered into chatgpt as they will be shorter than the responses but enough to see what they are trying to say
Blimey, these bots don’t half go on
Not a bot, but clearly mainly written by AI, with a few personal flourishes, a human poster using using AI to construct their argument of obfuscating genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Did you think that up all by yourself, or did you get help?
Anyone listened to that podcast yet? No? Ok....
You'd have to be particularly thick to think that I support 'Israel', given my posts here.
Guess that makes me thick then. Suspect I am not alone.
Ok, so if you genuinely think I support 'Israel', please; go ahead and give examples.
Because if I do, then surely that task should be easy, no?
This might help…
Ok, so if you genuinely think I support 'Israel', please; go ahead and give examples.
Because if I do, then surely that task should be easy, no?
The pretence of balance to unbalanced events is very obvious, but at least you have shown some emotion now, unfortunately unlike Mandy Patinkin on the previous page who is angry about the slaughter of a nation, the sniping of children, the destruction of cities, the use of aid to lure starving families into killing fields, you get angry because you have been worked out on a mountain biking forum.
Ordinary human beings carry out the most horrific atrocities; you cannot say you would never be cable of such yourself.
Nice straw man, since I've never said that. Clearly the evidence is that ordinary people can be persuaded to do very nasty things. You mention Rwanda, and there are many other examples including lab experiments. It's so obvious it doesn't need to be stated - though that doesn't seem to stop you doing so at inordinate length. What is less obvious is where our personal responsibility lies. Is it enough for the Israeli on the Tel Aviv omnibus to claim innocence on the basis that he heard racist stuff his whole life? Should we be excusing Hitler because his mother locked him in a cupboard?
Ok, so if you genuinely think I support 'Israel', please; go ahead and give examples.
Because if I do, then surely that task should be easy, no?
The pretence of balance to unbalanced events is very obvious, but at least you have shown some emotion now, unfortunately unlike Mandy Patinkin on the previous page who is angry about the slaughter of a nation, the sniping of children, the destruction of cities, the use of aid to lure starving families into killing fields, you get angry because you have been worked out on a mountain biking forum.
Angry, nah mate. Things like genocide and the needless murder of tens of thousands of innocent people makes me angry. You, on the other hand, get angry at someone whose words you don't actually understand. Bless. You know, you can ask me questions if it's all a bit too complicated for you.
So, any examples? No, didn't think so. That must be somewhat embarrassing, eh? To make up a blatant lie then get called out on it?
Now, I wonder who else does that...?
Ordinary human beings carry out the most horrific atrocities; you cannot say you would never be cable of such yourself.
Nice straw man, since I've never said that. Clearly the evidence is that ordinary people can be persuaded to do very nasty things. You mention Rwanda, and there are many other examples including lab experiments. It's so obvious it doesn't need to be stated - though that doesn't seem to stop you doing so at inordinate length. What is less obvious is where our personal responsibility lies. Is it enough for the Israeli on the Tel Aviv omnibus to claim innocence on the basis that he heard racist stuff his whole life? Should we be excusing Hitler because his mother locked him in a cupboard?
If you want to work out what drives people to do stuff, in order to try to prevent it from happening again, then yes, it's kind of important to try to understand. If we are to change anything about the current situation, then we most certainly have to understand the motivations for such behaviour. Like; if we want to understand why people in the UK are so fearful of migrants, for example, we need to listen to them. Then, we can at least challenge those fears, and try to educate them towards a better path. Now I accept we are a very long way past that point with a lot of people in Israel, but there are at least younger generations growing up who could be better educated and enlightened, and hopefully less fearful and hateful as they grow up. Indeed, many of the big anti-government/anti-war demonstrations in Israeli cities are led by young people. How can we best use the resources we have available to us now, to try to affect change? This is what many small peace organisations in Israel are doing right now. They are having dialogue with others, and discussions about how to move forward. Did you listen to the podcast I linked to? Those are two such young Israelis who are doing just that. It's depressingly little, but you have to start somewhere. And those young people are doing a **** load more positive and progressive actions than this forum is.
Angry, nah mate. Things like genocide and the needless murder of tens of thousands of innocent people makes me angry. You, on the other hand, get angry at someone whose words you don't actually understand. Bless. You know, you can ask me questions if it's all a bit too complicated for you.
Too little too late, I am genuinely angry about the one sided slaughter going on in gaza and have expressed that anger many times, unlike your crocodile tears now your little charade is over.
Those are two such young Israelis who are doing just that. It's depressingly little, but you have to start somewhere. And those young people are doing a **** load more positive and progressive actions than this forum is.
People in Israel are in a better position to influence the situation in Israel than a UK MTB forum. Amazing, I know, but since you're keen on statements of the bleedin' obvious, you should approve.
It's a little old, obviously the BBC wouldn't dare run this story now, but it should be noted that the sources are Isreali newspapers, and of course Isreal will have significantly ramped up its efforts over the past 2 years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
Those with foreign language skills who receive these "scholarships" would not identify themselves as being in the pay of the government. Instead, Israel's Ha'aretz, external newspaper says, the plan is to make the programme appear to be based on the activity of politically-neutral students, with the Prime Minister's Office also hoping to recruit from pro-Israel student groups from around the world.
Guys - Hanchenkuchen has attempted to be even handed ( and has condemned the genocide) and has been brave in sticking his head above the parapet and I get his point about looking to understand the motivations of the Zionists. I get the temptation but its a becoming a bit of a pile on
Good expose by Double Down News
And…..
Why did Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy host the far-right Israeli ambassador and say she understood Israel's 'serious concerns' about the BBC, Glastonbury, and Gaza?
https://zeteo.com/p/uk-governments-support-for-israeli?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
He may have "condemned" the genocide but read through his words again. It's not explicit but there is a definite leaning towards supporting Israel seasoned through the word salad and in my opinion, stress my opinion, he is deliberately pushing buttons to provoke. I get the impression that far from being a pile on, he is relishing the attention.
