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Are people really suggesting that we should execute a 15 year old child with mental problems? Amazing.
Is he really ill or is it a line of defence? If the former, lock him and try to help. Otherwise - no mercy IMO.
I want a reduction in crime via capital punishment for the most severe crimes
We have worked this out but can you give us some examples of where this has worked ?
There is no relationship betwewen the death penalty and murder or indeed crime rates. it actually seems to be less effective.
Eighty-eight percent of the country's top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide
The removal of capital punishment from the Canadian Criminal Code in 1976 has not led to an increase in the murder rate in Canada. In fact, Statistics Canada reports that the murder rate has generally been declining since the mid-1970s. In 2006, the national murder rate in Canada was 1.85 homicides per 100,000 population, compared to the mid-1970s when it was around 3.0.
Perhaps if you know you will be killed if you are caught you are more likely to kill someone to escape ?
Stop trying to confuse matters with your sensible arguments and convincing statistics, SOMEONE NEEDS TO DIE!!!
I've been in to a lot of prisons, 40+ from Dispersals to YOIs.
None of them are holiday camps, some, Leyhill for example have less strict regimes but make no mistake you have no liberty and you certainly can't get out for a ride in the Cotswolds.
I remember one story a governor told me at Thorncross in Warrington, about a lad who had been neglected all his life, who's parents had ignored him, not cared for him and basically kicked him out at 15, the lad survived by stealing, food, then cars, then whatever he could, I don't recall if there was any violence involved but eventually he was sent to the YOI.
Here they offered a 'boot camp', 3 months of getting up at 6am, education and discpline, you didn't have to do it, but if you did then they guarenteed a job at the end, this lad struggled at first and eventually succeeded and completed the course.
The governor told me how much it meant to get a letter from the lad a couple of years later thanking him for helping him get a trade (think it was bricklaying, they could do decorating, plastering, motor mechanics and so on) and that he was now working, had a girlfriend and a flat.
I heard plenty more stories like this, it was inspirational to see the commitment the staff made to ensuring that those in their care were helped to make amends for their past by turning their lives around, I find it incredibly disrespectful to them when I read threads like this or read newspaper decrying attempts to rehabilitate.
We should always always always try to help each other, even if the crimes are heinous, if one or two can be helped to make a positive contribution, even if it is from behind bars, that must always be the first and favoured option.
As ususal with these threads, what the likes of the hang em and flog em brigade spectacularly fail to realise is that the current regime is not working, neither did capital or for that matter corporal punishment.
Simply put, a reasonable definition of insanity is to do something that doesn't work, then repeat it incessantly expecting a different outcome. So how about we collectively MTFU in this area, and let the folks who actually handle this sh1t, have a proper run at dealing with the thing, with appropriate funding and resources, other than spouting utter bollocks all the time?
Nick
I agree with what you have said above (I too occassionally have to visit both young offender and high category prisons) but isn't there a vast difference between this alleged crime and the relatively minor misdemeanours carried out in your example ?
Some acts are so inhuman that society should never again be placed at risk by allowing the perpetrator back into that society.
Simply put, a reasonable definition of insanity is to do something that doesn't work, then repeat it incessantly expecting a different outcome.
Bit like TJ on this thread and many others 🙄
Some acts are so inhuman that society should never again be placed at risk by allowing the perpetrator back into that society.
By killing them?
And who should get to decide that? Dedicated, experienced and trained professionals, or some people who read about it on the internet?
That is a good case for rehabilitation. That is one good case. How many more convicted criminals have just learnt more criminal activities in jail. I believe that the moral fabric of society is breaking down due to the excessively lenient sentencing that is occuring. Too many times the media have publicised cases of crimes going un-punished or by using some great social experiment to try to prevent them commiting any more crime.
It hasn't worked. Here's an idea how about the victim or victims family help decide the punishment. That would appease all you looney lefty types that think the criminal have been done wrong by. For us who think that they should be suitably punished for trespassing against us will get our justice.
Or will that lead to more looney lefties getting killed because the criminal fraternity will learn whos best to attack and whos not!
That is one good case. How many more convicted criminals have just learnt more criminal activities in jail.
That is because they are not rehabilitated!
Here's an idea how about the victim or victims family help decide the punishment.
And that really is a recipe for justice!
That would appease all you looney lefty types that think the criminal have been done wrong by.
And who has said that and where?
I simply am pragmatic on this. I want to see crime reduced. From much research worldwide it is clear that reducing the causes of criminal behaviour is the best way to do this. This means rehabilitation of the offenders and removal of inequalities in society along with other measures that the daily wail brigade decry.
It is simple - rehabilitation works, punitive punishments don't.
Too many times have people based their opinions on the massively distorted picture provided by tabloid newspapers.
Research has shown that in fact sentencing is largely in line with what most people think it should be, but the same sample consistently thought that current sentencing was much more lenient than it really is. The papers only highlight cases where they consider an especially lenient sentence has been given.
Also, the fact is that the ONLY method of reducing re-offending is education and rehabilitation. The statistics are very clear - re-offending rates are still pretty high, but these programmes are the only thing that can be shown to make a significant difference. Reducing re-offending even by a very small amount actually saves the taxpayer a lot of money because of the costs involved in locking people up and processing them through the justice system.
But hey let's just forget all that so we can satisfy some kind of base urge for revenge eh?
Too many times the media have publicised cases of crimes going un-punished or by using some great social experiment to try to prevent them commiting any more crime.
Can you pick out the key word in that sentence that points to utterly flawed logic?
Here's an idea how about the victim or victims family help decide the punishment
If you are interested in justice, these are the last people who should be involved as they will, quite understanably, be interested in retribution rather than justice.
Dont know about all the comments above (and this might sound callous) but the lads only 15yrs. Which means we have another 4 decades or so of having to manage his care, pick up the pieces of subsequent offending etc. He'll probably come into contact with hundreds of dedicated professionals throughout his life and he'll be back in Manchester when hes released like many others like him at somepoint.
Sad all round really. Nothing tub-thumping on a handringing-mountain bike website you can do though.
That would certainly solve the rehabilitation aspect but was not what I said or advocated.By killing them?
And who should get to decide that? Dedicated, experienced and trained professionals, or some people who read about it on the internet?
I was merely offering an opinion. As for the 'dedicated, experienced and trained professionals' - I frequently come into contact with those unfortunates who have been deemed fit to return to society by those same dedicated professionals and who, quite evidently, are not !
Hora fair point, Well made!
shands - Member
I believe that the moral fabric of society is breaking down due to the excessively lenient sentencing that is occuring.
There you go a brilliantly uninformed statement at a time when we have more people locked up and for longer than at any time in the history of the nation!
Too many times the media have publicised cases of crimes going un-punished or by using some great social experiment to try to prevent them commiting any more crime.
And again! The recidivism rate for conventional jail is in the high 80 to low 90 percent area, whilst the "Great social experiment" rate is the opposite.
It hasn't worked. Here's an idea how about the victim or victims family help decide the punishment. That would appease all you looney lefty types that think the criminal have been done wrong by. For us who think that they should be suitably punished for trespassing against us will get our justice.
What? The justice of putting the offender into a system that almost guarantees that they will reoffend?
Or will that lead to more looney lefties getting killed because the criminal fraternity will learn whos best to attack and whos not!
Loony? As I said, the definition of insanity amply demonstrated by Monsieur Shands. I thank you sir, I believe my case now stands as proven.
TJ - you are kidding with that entirely inappropriate/irrelevant link........aren't you ?
I like the way the hang em and flog em lot are just ignoring all the clear evidence about why it's a good thing the justice system isn't run by angry Sun readers.
Wunundred!
I have nothing to add, that hazzunt already been said by TJ, Grumm and other sane people.
I just feel really, really sad for that poor little innocent girl. 😥
[i]This means rehabilitation of the offenders and[b] removal of inequalities in society [/b][/i]
I didn't really want to get involved, as I don't have an answer. I was wondering if TJ did, as all I've seen him do is argue against the opinions of others without providing an alternative. Then the above.
WTF does that mean? Nothing.
coming from the same person as "stupid unworkable suggestions without any thought or idea of reality."
Some acts are so inhuman that society should never again be placed at risk by allowing the perpetrator back into that society.
I don't agree that an 'act so inhuman' should automatically prevent someone from reentering society, how is this defined? What were the circumstances? If possible they should be allowed back and we should try to forgive them, not suggesting that this is 'easy'.
The right thing to do must surely be to try to find a way that enables the purpetrator to lead a life that has a postive effect on themselves and others, in doing so we learn more about ourselves and humanity, if that's from behind bars that should be because all the evidence supports that as the most sensible option, not because the baying masses desire it.
chewkw - Member"Insane in the main brain"
It's "membrane". FWIW
to be fair
hes insane he's got no brain
so he has an excuse 8)
Firing squad for scum like him, so what if he is mentally ill how and why is that an excuse. If ANYONE did that to my kid i would personally maim them.
PS TJ not a daily mail reader - just someone angry at an appalling crime, no punishment or rehabilitation is fitting for such an evil act. defend all you like but at the end of the day he is scum until proven innocent!
Just as a matter of interest, its also worth not shooting people like this so that we can learn from them and thereby perhaps avoid a repetition elsewhere.
I have a very simplistic view on things like this (Probably because I dont read any newspapers as I feel they're all slanted to which ever notion that the editor, owner, etc want to put in the public domain). The view is if it was my child that had been murdered like this how would I react. I am sorry but some looney lefties would obviously think I am babaric. I d want retribution.
Again I go back to asking the victims and families of victims to be involved in sentencing. Those who wish to turn the other cheek can and those that want their view of justice can also be represented. Unless this of course goes against you ejits that want to protect all convicted criminals from any sense of responsibility for their actions. After all some of the very strange notion that nobody is responsible for their own actions it obviously has something to do with something or someone else.
Nick
The right thing to do must surely be to try to find a way that enables the purpetrator to lead a life that has a postive effect on themselves and others, in doing so we learn more about ourselves and humanity
All very worthy and in an ideal world that would be the correct solution.
However, bearing in mind that many 'good' people die on a daily basis due to a lack of funding or medical care, is it really an appropriate use of finite resources to attempt the rehabilitation of someone whose only contribution to society is likely to be contained in a psychiatric study ? I am not talking about this specific case as the full facts are not available, but generally for cases of this type.
G - I would be more inclined to agree with you were it not for the fact that thses cases are relatively rare and it is debatable whether any amount of analysis could prevent re-occurrence.
SO let me get this straight TJ is saying that crime rates down but G is saying we have more people locked up. I am obviously very stupid cause I can't see how both can be true. Maybe you better decide which stats you want to spout to better define your points of view people.
Lies, damn lies and statistics someone once said!
Dezb.
It is clear that inequalities of opportunity are [i]one[/i]of the drivers of crime. In times of rising prosperity and decreasing inequality crime goes down. One way of reducing crime is to reduce inequalities of opportunity.
I am also a believer in restorative justice - as in the link I posted above - again proven to work [i]in some cases[/i] Such things as those "graffitti artists" who were jailed. They should be made to paint public buildings - preferably in magnolia 🙂
Much crime is strongly linked to drugs. A more rational drugs policy taking it out of the judicial system into the healthcare and education systems would reduce crime. In some areas the majority of crime is drugs linked. this would also have the effect of freeing up police time to detect the other crime that is not drugs related.
Much tougher non custodial sentencing as well - re offending rates are much lower for non custodial sentencing. [i]Again where appropriate.[/i] ie where there is no risk to the public.
There is a wealth of research on what works. I would like to follow this research. I like evidence based practice.
There is no one simple solution. Much of what works requires money - but money spent on rehabilitation = money saved in the consequences of crime. Reducing crime saves money.
There are general things such as I have outlined above. There are also more basic things for individuals. One thing is to intevene earlier in a criminals career.
I am purely pragmatic in all this. I claim no moral basis in any way. I simply want to see things that are proven to work used rather than the continuation of our failed policies.
the problem is the things that are proven to work do not play well with the "daily Wail" tendency ( a convenient shorthand)
I am obviously very stupid cause I can't see how both can be true.
In order to satisfy the cretinous members of the public who lap up stories of the breakdown society, people are being sent to prison for crimes that would be better delt with without resorting to detention.
It's really not a difficult concept to grasp 😉
Shands, because people are getting longer sentences or getting put in prison for things where previously they wouldn't have done? It's not that hard really.
Of course if you were a bit cleverer you might have suggested that this means that locking up lots of people works (but you'd still be wrong).
shands - MemberSO let me get this straight TJ is saying that crime rates down but G is saying we have more people locked up. I am obviously very stupid cause I can't see how both can be true. Maybe you better decide which stats you want to spout to better define your points of view people.
Lies, damn lies and statistics someone once said!
Both are true. People are now locked up for longer than they used to be for the same crime and more people are locked up for crimes that did not attract custodial sentences in the past.
so although crime is down - we lock up more people for these crimes. Also detection rates are up.
simple
I have a very simplistic view on things like this ............... The view is if it was my child that had been murdered like this how would I react. I d want retribution.
a perfectly reasonable reaction - but not one to base sentencing policy on IMO
I truly hope that chewkw is a troll and I can claim my £5...
Very very sad for the poor child, perhaps the parents can except some responsibility for leaving their child in the care of another child, their choice of child minder was obviously poor.
What the teanage boy has done is beyound belief, he needs to be kept away from people he can hurt, however no one has the right to take a human life. Even a floored human being has the right to a fair trial.
Having said this i am not sure i could stop myself from taking matters into my own hands if i was the affected parent. Perhaps that would make me a bad person.
What utter drivel. Whats it like up on your fluffy white cloud!
Crime rates may be dropping due to the police not wanting to accept anything they cant solve. Personal experience of only three occasions were I have been trangressed against. 1st nobody was interested in my car being stolen. Had to go and look for it myself, found it and phoned the police. Still not interested, would not attend. Informed them that was taking the car back, if there was trouble would deal with it ourselves. Strangely enough responded within 5 minutes. The scroat that stole it owned up a year later when being done for something else. Aprox 35 crimes all in one hit. He served less time, police look like theyre doing a wonderful job, not.
2nd time someone rammed the front of my property with a van and drove off. Called the police out and had a knob of a sergent tell me it wasn't a crime to damage someones property and drive away. Even when I insisted it must be criinal damage or leaving the scene of an accident. Strangely he got upset when I offered to come and slam my car into the front of his house if it wasn't a crime!
Thirdly had trees(trees for christ sake) stolen from my property and all the cops did was laugh. Not a happy bear with the way that the law is represented in this lovely country of ours.
So if I am I bit pesimistic with our ability as a soceity to deal with the less than productive members you will please forgive me! Not that I give a damn what you actually think.
Well been fun, I do like having debates with TJ. Always has an opinion, usually that differs from mine. But usually has some other link to back his opinion up
Have fun children!
Having said this i am not sure i could stop myself from taking matters into my own hands if i was the affected parent. Perhaps that would make me a bad person
Pretty normal I would say. I'm damned sure I would want the guilty party to suffer a similar fate to the child but preferably more painful and protracted !
G - I would be more inclined to agree with you were it not for the fact that thses cases are relatively rare and it is debatable whether any amount of analysis could prevent re-occurrence.
Possibly right, but it would be a shame if we were at the tipping point of a trend and actually didn't pick up on it, thus not acting and thus perpetuating it. I suspect if you look at things like the James Boulger case and one or two high profile others in the recent past you might well find that this sort of hard core crime carried out by minors is potentially more of an issue than you might think. .. . . I believe there is an ever growing list of stabbings for instance.
Also on the take them out and shoot them front, just take a look at the long list of miscarriages of justice going back to the Birmingham 6. Its very easy to pontificate, not so easy to carry out the sentence and even harder to go and apologise to the family when you find out that you've killed the wrong person judicially.
Shands - the crime stats that show crime reducing are nothing to do with the police, with "solved crime" or anything but interviews with real people about their real experiences of crime.
I suggest that we try to seperate out our emotionally retarded vigilante fantasies from the intensly complex and difficult work society needs to do to improve itself.
There will always be crime and violence, there will always be inequality, there will always be drugs, we can choose to bury our collective heads in the sand and just bin those who don't fit the model 'we' want, or we can try to continue to include everyone whoever they are and whatever they have done, ultimately because this will better us all.
I believe there is an ever growing list of stabbings for instance
A gaggle of psaychiatrists could have a field day trying to prove the link between this case and youth stabbings, no doubt with evidence supported theories taking into account variables of pollen count and moon phase when the act was committed 😉
Nick
As a matter of interest, are you wearing a tie dye t-shirt and dancing around with flowers in your hair while you type ?
No, unfortunately, sounds like quite a nice way to spend the afternoon !
In fact I'm the complete opposite, I firmly believe that we need to face up to the very difficult questions about humanity this sort of case raises and continue to work to find ways to understand and then hopefully reduce it, we have immediately failed as a race if we give up and throw away the key.
Albert Perripoint,who was the hangman for the British legal system believed the death sentence was little more than state sanctified murder and he also believed it did little good.
I agree,theres plenty of modern countries that despite a death sentence,still have high numbers of murders per year.
.
As you increase the sentence you increase to risks the criminal is willing to take to get away.
shands - You are a star ! .......not much entertains and amuses me more than tabloid-fuelled rantings !
And the ranting in your last post was simply priceless. I really felt after reading it that all coppers should be thrown into prison - they are clearly in collusion with the criminals !
.
So anyway, it's the "looney lefties" who are opposed to the death sentence is it ? 😀
What, do you mean like the 'looney left' government of Margaret Thatcher which refused to re-introduce the death penalty ?
In the recent EU elections right-wingers won a massive majority. As the looney left are clearly not in control of the EU, can we expect the EU to drop it's opposition to the death penalty ?
Because as you undoubtedly know, the EU will not allow any country with the death penalty to become a member state. In fact the EU campaigns vigorously for a global ban on the death sentence :
[url= http://ec.europa.eu/news/external_relations/070620_1_en.htm ]"Tireless champion for the abolition of the death penalty throughout the world, the EU proposes a European day against the death penalty. The EU wants to see the death penalty become a thing of the past everywhere on the planet"[/url]
And it's not just the looney left in the EU which has abolished the death sentence. The looney left has abolished the death sentence in most other countries of the world.
Which suggests that the 'loonies' are in fact 'normal', and it's the 'let's hang 'em brigade' which are, erm .............. [i]the actual[/i] loonies ?
Here is a list of all the countries which have abolished the death sentence. In brackets are the years when abolition took place (I bet the Venezuelans would be surprised to learn that they have had 'looney left' governments for almost 150 years!)
* Albania (2000)
* Andorra (1990)
* Angola (1992)
* Argentina (2008)
* Armenia (2003)
* Australia (1984)
* Austria (1950)
* Azerbaijan (1998)
* Belgium (1996)
* Bhutan (2004)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina (1997)
* Bulgaria (1998)
* Cambodia (1989)
* Canada (1976)
* Cape Verde (1981)
* Chile (2008)
* Colombia (1910)
* Cook Islands (2007)
* Costa Rica (1877)
* Côte d'Ivoire (2000)
* Croatia (1990)
* Cyprus (1983)
* Czech Republic (1990)
* Denmark (1933)
* Djibouti (1995)
* Dominican Republic (1966)
* East Timor (1999)
* Ecuador (1906)
* Estonia (1998)
* Finland (1949)
* France (1981)
* Georgia (1997)
* Germany (1949)
* Greece (1993)
* Guinea-Bissau (1993)
* Haiti (1987)
* Honduras (1956)
* Hungary (1990)
* Iceland (1928)
* Ireland (1990)
* Italy (1947)
* Kiribati (1979)
* Liberia (2005)
* Liechtenstein (1987)
* Lithuania (1998)
* Luxembourg (1979)
* Macedonia (1991)
* Malta (1971)
* Marshall Islands (1986)
* Mauritius (1995)
* Mexico (2005)
* Micronesia (1986)
* Moldova (1995)
* Monaco (1962)
* Montenegro (2002)
* Mozambique (1990)
* Namibia (1990)
* Nepal (1990)
* Netherlands (1870)
* New Zealand (1961)
* Nicaragua (1979)
* Niue (n.a.)
* Norway (1905)
* Palau (n.a.)
* Panama (1903)
* Paraguay (1992)
* Poland (1997)
* Portugal (1867)
* Philippines (2006)
* Romania (1989)
* Rwanda (2007)
* Samoa (2004)
* San Marino (1848)
* São Tomé and Príncipe (1990)
* Senegal (2004)
* Serbia (2002)
* Seychelles (1993)
* Slovak Republic (1990)
* Slovenia (1989)
* Solomon Islands (1966)
* South Africa (1995)
* Spain (1978)
* Sweden (1921)
* Switzerland (1942)
* Turkey (2002)
* Turkmenistan (1999)
* Tuvalu (1978)
* Ukraine (1999)
* United Kingdom (1973)
* Uruguay (1907)
* Uzbekistan (2008)
* Vanuatu (1980)
* Vatican City (1969)
* Venezuela (1863)
LOL! Some of the countries listed above do not need death penalty as living there can already be deemed as a death penalty.
Also most newly formed "EU" countries only abolished death penalty not because they want to but because they have to if they are going to join EU.
As for Philippines because they want to be another state of USA.
LOL! I can see a trend in those countries ... incentives is the word.
Oh ya ... statistic correlation and significance ... eerrmm ... you don't want to go there. Statistic is merely numbers and you can interpret them as much as you like to fit the box.
Hmm, this has run to 4 pages but the OP answered the question in the first post!
"Why can't they name the ****er?!"
"put a bounty on his head!"
That's why.
As for Philippines because they want to be another state of USA.
The Philippines abolished the death penalty in 2006 because it wants to be part of the USA ?
The USA - a country world famous for having the death penalty ?
And when exactly are the Philippines going to become the 51st state of this 'death penalty free' USA then ?
.
Unbelievable ....................your stupidity knows no bounds.
.
BTW do you actually understand what the word 'statistic' means ? Saying that the Philippines abolished the death sentence is not providing a statistic, any more than me saying that you are some sort of idiot is.
Both are clearly FACTS
Which suggests that the 'loonies' are in fact 'normal', and it's the 'let's hang 'em brigade' which are, erm .............. the actual loonies ?
You can't tell them that, they are clearly to mental to accept it. I suppose this is what happens when they get released through the "care in the Community" scheme.
I dont want convicted murders back on the street with open access to alcohol, drugs and zero work opportunity for them.
Liberal society tells us that they deserve a 'second chance'. The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their 'second chance'. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.
Sorry, Im not sure on the death penalty however I think we should have wholelife tariffs for murder committed. Big jails? Yes but it'll be safer on the streets.
As for Paedophiles, there is no cure so they should never be released. Sorry if that offends anyone.
Liberal society tells us that they deserve a 'second chance'. The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their 'second chance'. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.
Ah! I've got it. Execute at the first transgression and future crimes are prevented. Great work Hora, I always wondered why we didn't take our policies from the movies. Always seems so simple up there on the silver screen. Now then wheres the speakers Darth Vader outfit.....
PS: Don't you dare break the speed limit, otherwise its curtains for you m'lad
The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their 'second chance'. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.
So what if the previous offences weren't murder? You going to lock them up permanently for shop lifting? This isn't minority report.
Agree that life should mean life and Peadophiles are mentally ill so shouldn't be released.
No Im talking about the 'started their crim record at 13, lots of different convictions ending with their first murder'.
The two yardie lads who were locked up recently will get out in their late 40's. Does that mean they will be 'safe' then? Is that guaranteed? They've paid their 'dues' to soceity. Hmmmm, I think if you murder someone you should expect it back.
Hora - in that sort of case it simply strengthens the case for effective rehabilitation before they murder to prevent that murder.
anyway - the vast majority of murders are not like that - they are domestic incident s of one sort or another - ie it is someone known to the victim who murders in temper
And finally - life does mane life. they are released from jail on parole once the parole board believe that they do not represent a danger to society. They remain on parole and are subject to recall to jail at any time for any reason.
[i]Firing squad for scum like him, so what if he is mentally ill how and why is that an excuse. If ANYONE did that to my kid i would personally maim them[/i]
Let's say your kid has an accident or catches a virus that leaves him brain damaged but physically ok, stuck forever with the mind of a 4 year old. And let's just say, unaware of his own strength and not being completely understanding of the differences between "right" and "wrong", accidentally kills/harms another child - you'll be right there calling for the execution without trial of your own child would you?
And let's run that a little bit further - let's say you have 2 children, and the damamged one kills the other one - you'd be right there, ready to pull the trigger, right?
BigButSlimmerBloke, sad to say that whilst you are absolutely correct, you are wasting your valuable time. I suspect his mother was in the queue for gob when she should have been in the one for intellect. 😉
he suffered an abnormality of mind which impaired his responsibility.
You do know its the Defence Solicitors job to sieze on the thinnest of defence dont you?
'Mentally ill'? You do realise that you need a screw loose to kill someone dont you?
A perfectly sane, normal person doesnt kill someone because they felt like it.
In prison he'll receive training and indoctronation to set him up for life- after all, theres definitely no honour amongst thieves.
When did the UK general population become soo Liberal? Look to France, would a UK Prime Minister ban all headcoverings as insulting to women? NO. Spineless and I wonder who teaches our children this blend of Liberalism.
Second thoughts, lets help him with his abnormality of mind and shoot him twice in the back of the head. Then hang his body up in Salford as a warning to any other loonies. ****s.
🙄
Hora your bizarre drivel just gets worse every day. Please be quiet.
grumm, I'm sure there is a liberal handringing class somewhere waiting on a late-student. Run along dear? 😉 (puts tin-hat on)
See what happened when Thatchers lot closed all the loony bins?? 😯
They are all out, (its Ok until they forget to take their meds).
Handringing? Campanology? If you are going to try and insult someone you could at least spell the words correctly. Numpty.
Campanology? Is that the study of homosexuality? 😕
🙄
Is it Thatchers fault?I wonder who teaches our children this blend of Liberalism.
Is this thread still going? 🙄
Is it Thatchers fault?
Either that or the Major's
Whoa just seen this topic and read the report. If anyone did that to my son I'd be up on a murder charge. Easy as.
tommo999, careful. In reality you would need to meet with him, except his apology, keep a correspondence with him whilst he is in jail whilst understanding that he had a hardlife/upbringing.
Whoa just seen this topic and read the report. If anyone did that to my son I'd be up on a murder charge. Easy as.
Read my last post - what if it was your kid that did it?
It's a long time since I've read such self-righteous uneducated Sun reading p1sh. Millions of years of evolution and the like of you knuckle dragging halfwits are the result. I'd like to see Darwin explain that.
tommo999, careful. In reality you would need to meet with him, except his apology, keep a correspondence with him whilst he is in jail whilst understanding that he had a hardlife/upbringing.
Yes because that's what the family members of murdered people are made to do isn't it. I read it in the Daily Mail.
By the way it's 'accept'.
Why does anyone care? Get a grip, stop reading the news if it causes you to get a fit of the vapours.
As the goverment has borrowed heavily for the future perhaps the cost saving should be taken out of the prison system. After all a bullit for every prisoner could save huge amounts of money. If we just look at it as an accounts issue. Simple really.
Penguinious - MemberWhen did the UK general population become soo Liberal? Look to France, would a UK Prime Minister
I'm sorry Penguinious, what's the point you're making ?
That we don't put people in prison because unlike France this country is too liberal ? 😕
Because not only does France not have the death sentence, but it also has a much smaller prison population than England and Wales.
France imprisons 91 persons for every 100,000 compared to the 142 per 100,000 England and Wales imprisons - a huge difference. Which by your reckoning must make France a far more liberal country ?
BTW, the USA imprisons 714 persons per 100,000 by far the highest rate in the world - obviously not a very 'liberal' country then.
Shame they don't have a crime-free society to show for it though.
as stated before "kill the bastard"
ernie_lynch I'm talking about Sarkozy's speach on seculalism and Muslim headwear. A political stance, true. However I admire his stance. Its degrading to women.
Anyway, going back when we had the death sentance- alot of mistakes/miscarriages of justice happened. Now though we have advances in forensics/DNA...why should we have the scrote back on our streets again in the name of a modern society...read into that what you like.
it is [b]secularism[/b]
I am certain the advance in science means no innocent people are in jail 🙄
I read into that you are fairly diwittted and lacking in forgiveness and empathy 😉
Ah. Tis like nostalgia. Back to the days of nazi-style spelling tribunals STW/online 😆 8) 🙄
I'm talking about Sarkozy's speach on seculalism and Muslim headwear.
So what has that got to do with Demi Mahon being battered to death by another child, eh ?
Go on .......... hit me with it
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The death of Demi Mahon is indisputably, a truly tragic story.
The only way I could see this story becoming [i]any more[/i] tragic, would be if the State decided to execute the 15 year old responsible for her death. Or as the OP desperately wants, the 15 year old's name was released and he was hunted down and murdered by a band of vigilante ****wits.
I would rather live in a society where neither individuals, the State, nor vigilantes, acted in a barbaric way.
Unfortunately sometimes some individuals [i]will[/i] behave in a barbaric way - it would be foolish to believe that this can ever be stopped from happening. But I see no reason whatsoever why the State should ever be reduced to that level. And it is perfectly reasonable to expect it never to do so.
Obviously Penguinious you feel that this [i]scrote's[/i], as you call him, life is worthless. And like chewkw you believe he should be 'culled'. But I fail to understand why anyone who clearly attaches so little value to human life, should claim to be particularly concerned with the level of unlawful killings in society.
.
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For your information :
[i]Manchester Crown Court was told that when the 15-year-old boy was later in secure residential care he said to a member of staff : "I'm not proud of what I've done and everyone will think I'm a monster.
"But no one can ever punish me as much as I punish myself." [/i]
And :
[i]The court heard that the boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has a mental disorder.[/i]
If a person murdered someone, after blah blah blah lawyers argued this and that including all the technical stuff (mental health, underage whatever - underage murderers is a bit tricky ... off with the head when they reach adulthood?), that indeed the person committed a heinous crime. Guilty as hell as judged.
Then the choice should be as simple as:
1) The person's life is to be expired by the state. As Henry VIII would say "Off with the head!" ... the modern equivalent might be something more humane like lethal injection.
Or
2) Life imprisonment with no parole for 40 years. (in the meantime we can reduce his sentence by several years if the person let the state harvests the person's organs ... Muuwwwhhhaaaaa!)
Obviously not all punishments should automatically be "off with the head!", some rehabilitation might be called for example, starting with the softly softly approach first ... bugger that if they think they are hard enough then put them to hard labour therapy (depending on what they are not all are hard labour), 10 person to a cell, porridge diet - only sufficient to keep them healthy.
If a person re-offends then more rehabilitation therapy - harder labour, smaller cramp cell and more porridge diet.
Some murderers simply do not deserve to be alive to be frank and I am not interested in rehabilitating them.