[Closed] Fecking teenagers!

Grumm the only views you seem to have are it's not their fault, it's not getting worse, and the only alternative is move to Saudi Arabia

the uk already has gated commnunities - my sister lived in a gated up block of flates in leeds a few years ago and drove to the corner shop because she perceived the area to be too dangerous to walk through.

I don't know the area so can;t comment if her perception was correct or not - but the flats had been designed to keep anyone but residents and their guests out

OK so I'm narrow minded. I'm not the one throwing hysterical nonsense at people I don't agree with. hahaha

Apart from claiming in your previous post that the entire generation are feral animals, of course.

Grumm - I agree with much of what you've said, and the sentiment in general. I'm just honest enough with myself to know that I'd struggle to deal with a situation like the OP described in a law-abiding and rational manner.

One was very lippy to me, calling me all the names under the sun, I turned round and said, "Excuse me, you're too poor to talk to me."

That shut the little shit up. No comeback what so ever, his facial expression was one of the funniest I've ever seen.

Grumm - part of me wants to agree with you and part is screaming that the liberalism that you seem to be advocating is the root cause of the problem.

Yeah gated communities are appearing.

BTW, organizations like Spear are doing the right sorts of things to deal with the growing underclass.

http://www.spearcourse.org/about_spear.html

Grumm - so what's the solution? Sterilisation?

We have cheeky little gits here in Mid Wales too who have even been disgustingly rude to my heavily pregnant wife. I have explained to them not to worry but the dark winter nights are coming and will happily take them out one at a time with no witnesses - can't say I like doing it but if I had ever spoken to an adult like that I would have been ****tted

One of the little tw*ts mates knows me of old and I think he's explained to his mates what happened to him two years ago when I caught the little creep so the nonsense appears to have stopped.

Wrong, I agree but effective

Frankly if i could get my hands on the parents I'd do the same for them - these little sh1ts are turfed out of the house when the parents go to work / drinking / drugs etc then come back in when they're tired. And, get this - we're all paying for it!

The point is there are no boundaries - a mates a school teacher and you should hear the crap he has to put up with. In my old school the teachers beat up kids like that.

I don't blame Thatcher - I blame a wet eyed liberal society which has simply gone too far.

Chuckles at [i]"Excuse me, you're too poor to talk to me."[/i] That's horrible. 😀

British children are being "demonised" by a society that is locking too many of them up, according to watchdogs.

The joint report by children's commissioners for all parts of the UK said attitudes towards youngsters were hardening across the country.

[b]The experts said crime committed by children had fallen between 2002 and 2006, but the numbers criminalised had gone up by just over a quarter.[/b]

Their conclusions are part of a United Nations review of standards in the UK.

The four commissioners were appointed in a move to ensure children's rights are more effectively recognised by policy-makers.

Their report will be presented to the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child.

In their document, the commissioners said most children were happy and that policy-makers were trying to improve the situation.

They added that too many children were being put through the criminal justice system and the poverty experienced by one in three youngsters was unacceptable for a rich nation.

The experts said more children were scared in their neighbourhoods and, citing previous studies, drank more alcohol, had deteriorating mental health and felt more pressure at school than their European peers.
Public bodies are legally bound to put the best interests of a child first in decision-making. But the commissioners said this key legal safeguard had failed in some parts of the youth justice system for England and Wales.

"The system is dominated by a punitive approach and does not sufficiently distinguish between adult offenders and children who break the law," says the report.

[b]"Compared to other European countries, England has a very low age of criminal responsibility and high numbers of children are locked up.[/b] Too many children are being criminalised and brought into the youth justice system at an increasingly young age."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7443104.stm

We are much less liberal here than in many other European countries - eg France, Germany and Italy have much higher ages of criminal responsibility. Yet we have worse teenage pregnancy, drug use, and seemingly anti-social behaviour.

BD - Yes it was, but a well placed word went a lot further then a well placed punch.

Wunundred!

Grumm just a suggestion but maybe stop relying on the beeb for unbiased factual information?

Grumm

I can't think of a single time when I demonise children's behaviour - just bad ones.....

Most kids are spot-on. As usual its a small minority

That for me is a real issue - this country, this democracy is now about minority rule

It is the parents fault for not controling their kids. My dad was a teacher from back in the day when they used the cane, and he didn't have a problem with dishing it out to his own kids if we'd done wrong.

These values look to have skipped a generation and now parents are scared to tell their own kids off. This goes on for a couple of years and then they wont be told by anyone!!

My sister wouldn't give her son a clip when he was naughty, saying that you need to "bargain with them" to stop them doing things. Now he's a right little sh#'. Sorry for my sister adding to the problem 🙁

Grumm - I think you are viewing the word liberal too narrowly.
Having just come back from Crete I would suggest that children there are allowed more freedom but, if high spirits starts to cross the line of what an adult thinks is acceptable, a sharp word from an adult of any age seemed to calm them down without the tirade of abuse it would engender here.

European countries still have the family as the centre of their society, grandparents are cared for and respected rather than reviled and mocked. The have better social cohesion so values remain consistent. We have managed to destroy the family as the centre of society (Thatcher's fault again!) through large scale unemployment, mobility of workforce separating extended families etc etc.

Our version of liberalism towards children is "let them do as they will until it is so serious we haev to lock them up and criminalise them", perhaps if the guidelines were applied more firmly and earlier the problem would not arise.

My son was bullied at school. He pointed out the culprit to me when out riding one day. I (quite politely) told the child who I was and that I'd like him to stop bullying my son. By the time I'd got home, the police were waiting for me at my front door and told me that if i spoke to the child again, I'd be done for harassment or some such rubbish.

When questioned as to what they thought appropriate action, they said I should speak to the school. I did and they did nothing and my son is still being bullied.

You can be as liberal as you like, speak to the individual as calmly and politely as possible - it'll do no good. Don't kid yourselves that schools care - they can't control what goes on within the gates let alone outside.

At the end of the day, the problem with these children lays at home where generations of badly treated offspring grow up and treat their children the same. Your moment of reasoning will be lost in a sea of foul language, poor morals and probably violence once they return home. Therefore you can't expect them to understand.

HairyChested - Single out the individuals, catch them on their own and speak to them in a language they understand. No one will look after yours other than you.

Flange - one complaint will not resolve this.
Go back to the school, ask to see their complaints procedure.
If they refuse, go to the governors, if the do check what should have happened, get the head to confirm that it did happen.
If the bullying continues complain again and check the outcome - if nothing raise it with the governors and ask for a formal response.
If it continues go to the LEA and report exactly what has happened.
The LEA will take this seriously, the threat to go to the LEA should get a response.
Don't ever tackle a child directly and record what you did and when.
Can send you a sample complaints procedure if that may help.

This idea that no-one except a child's own parents, or possibly a timid and indifferent school, has any right or business telling children how to behave (up to the pioint they get in police trouble) is an important part of the problem I think.

I think we can all agree it comes down to respect and the lack of it today. I agree with the parent issues but surly any adult not just the parent should be able to remind a kid how to behave. It gets me why kids would think it's ok to shout an offend as well as harm normal everyday people of all ages. Is it so hard to let people go about their everyday business in a safe civilised society? I feel the problem is getting worse, much much worse. I was only a teenager 5 years ago and none of my friends would dream of doing such acts of mindless trouble making. I think we all want a peaceful, easy and safe society to live in, so maybe looking to the past for ways to control this mindless yobbish behaviour could be the way forward.

There's no such thing as bad kids, just bad parents.
If kids are bought up to respect in the first place then there shouldn't be a problem. If some kids still want to push the boundaries beyond that then that's a situation for the parents to address.

"proved this to my teacher by hooking up a deacent mics (SM57 and a 58) to an oscilasope and getting them to re-do the test, conveniently the hi-fi speeker stops working at the same frequency you'd expect the ear to stop!"
Unfortunatley SM58 frquency response only goes upto 15K so not very helpful

nobtwidler - Member

"proved this to my teacher by hooking up a deacent mics (SM57 and a 58) to an oscilasope and getting them to re-do the test, conveniently the hi-fi speeker stops working at the same frequency you'd expect the ear to stop!"
Unfortunatley SM58 frquency response only goes upto 15K so not very helpful

Or you could use quiet technology like a cross bow perhaps?

What about those annoying personal alarms or fire alarms?

[i] flange - Member

My son was bullied at school. He pointed out the culprit to me when out riding one day. I (quite politely) told the child who I was and that I'd like him to stop bullying my son. By the time I'd got home, the police were waiting for me at my front door and told me that if i spoke to the child again, I'd be done for harassment or some such rubbish.

When questioned as to what they thought appropriate action, they said I should speak to the school. I did and they did nothing and my son is still being bullied. [/i]

Schools are crap at sorting out bullies. Most pretty much endorse it by championing the sports teams, which are generally full of the sort of pricks that should be excluded for bullying.

As a nipper, i always taught not too lash out, but if you were pushed into a corner, to go for main protagonist and to hit once, hit as hard as possible and to cause as much damage as possible (e.g. make it look like you did something - smash a nose, bust an eye or even crush a testicle), and then to walk away.

Sadly, at middle school, being short and featherweight, i couldnt really back it up that easily!

Schools are crap at sorting out bullies. Most pretty much endorse it by championing the sports teams, which are generally full of the sort of pricks that should be excluded for bullying

Is that something based on any kind of fact or is it just something that you think ?

Sadly, at middle school, being short and featherweight, i couldnt really back it up that easily!

yea, but they go a weee bit higher than that (within the range of adjusting the EQ anyway, maybe not recoding quality)

Certainly worked better than the same experiment performed with 99p store ones that the science labs had. Just became a distorted mush above 12k.

Anyway, i prefer seinheiser mics, can't qualify it, just nicer 🙂

trailmonkey - Member

Schools are crap at sorting out bullies. Most pretty much endorse it by championing the sports teams, which are generally full of the sort of pricks that should be excluded for bullying

Is that something based on any kind of fact or is it just something that you think ?

Based on my experience of middle school

So hardly generally then.

The facts as quoted by Grumm are true. Independently gathered FACTS.

Just because it don't fit into some of your narrow minded views coloured by the moral panic over "feral kids" created by the press does not mean it is untrue.

Flange - there must be an awful lot more to that than you are telling us. If the story is as you say the cops simply would have ignored the kid. They have better things to do with their time and have no right to warn you off like that

trailmonkey - Member

So hardly generally then.

No, fair enough, but i cant see how it would be any different elsewhere

A lot of the time the bulies are the popular kids - the ones who are good at school-sports and make the school look good. The school (probably unwittingly) let them get away with murder as they want them 'on-side'.

I know this sounds like a rant based on a crap american teen movie 🙂

TJ thats bollox unless you actually believe that crime rates are recorded accurately..

deleted double post!

ah bloody browser!

TJ that's assuming you believe that crime rates are recorded accurately?

What is the correct term to refer to feral kids as? Mis-understood? Nice-people-really? Probably-not-their-fault? Children-of-Thatcher?

oh that's weird, double post....Mark I think you have a Friday afternoon IT problem...the worst sort!

Well enfit - the national crime survey is considered rigorous and valid. It is a huge statistical survey done to internationally accepted standards.

It is not recorded crime - it is actual peoples experience of actual crime.

Still - I am sure you know better than a team of internationally recognised statisticians

"feral kids" - tabloid speak and all part of creating the moral panic.

enfht - I think its because it doesnt jump to the latest post when you post - if its on a new page you don't notice at first

>no right to warn you off like that

Presumably the kids parents reported him alleging something like 'threatening behaviour', in which case they're probably obliged to talk to him.

Re bullying - I spent a significant proportion of my schools days being the fat/shy/quiet kid that got picked on/made fun off, etc, despite being bigger than most kids. Nothing *that* bad looking back but didn't feel like it...a constant drip, drip, drip. Only ended when I was about 15 and pinned/threw one annoying t*t up the wall, right off the floor. Put the sh*ts up him and it soon got round. I suspect some of those kids didn't appreciate how it gets to you (well, apart from the ones that try 'offering you out' I guess). With bullies the answer, I'm sad to say, when no-one else is gonna do anything, a bit of well-placed aggression can work wonders, or however you need to stand up for yourself.

I can certainly say my experience, grand scheme of things or otherwise, *isn't* irrelevant, and I wish I'd lost my rag years before and sorted it for good

The debate about whether or not children's behaviour is getting worse is an interesting one, but it's not helpful to the OP. We could have the best behaved kids in the world, but there will always be the odd bad apple. So the question is, when confronted with this situation, what's the most effective way of dealing with it?

Though for the record, we're not particularly liberal compared to many countries that are considered to have better standards of behaviour.

TJ I'd say the data is flawed if it doesn't show crime is getting worse, unless of course it's getting worse where I live and becoming less of a problem where you live, that may explain duff data if it only reports "total" crime. Reporting a crime and receiving an incident number doesn't mean the official data reports it as a crime.

I've spoken to the school office, they got a deputy principal onto it. He's coming round on Monday to try and see who they are. I'll be talking to the plod too, as per the school's request.
Funny, as soon as I mentioned the scumbags swearing at my wife and threatening my baby, the schools got serious.
To the point that the guy's just been here and we've arranged for him to come along and see for himself.
Wherever it take us 🙂

ebfit - but that is not where the data comes from. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html there is no question the overall trend in crime for ten years has been downward. It may not fit your prejudices but it is true.

But as I said - you obviously know better than the internationally regognised people collating this data using proper valid and rigorous statistical tools that stand up to any standard of critique.

You clearly showed your petty minded prejudices by stating that the BBC were not impartial on this.

TJ I'd say the data is flawed if it doesn't show crime is getting worse, unless of course it's getting worse where I live and becoming less of a problem where you live, that may explain duff data if it only reports "total" crime.

Given that you believe that an entire generation of kids are feral, we won't get too worked up about what you believe about crime data either.

enfht - Member
TJ I'd say the data is flawed if it doesn't show crime is getting worse, unless of course it's getting worse where I live and becoming less of a problem where you live

No increasing crime problem around here. No huge increase in teenage benefit claimants wheeling their kids to the schools. No noted increase in burglaries, thefts, muggings, gangland killings, drug wars. The odd gang of kids hanging around on street corners, who when spoken to normally reply articulately. I can leave my car outside on the main road or in one of the side streets with a fair amount of confidence.

I must be living in a different country.

(I live in a VERY working class area of South Wales.)

TJ - I am rusty on how that data is collected, but it presumably would [i]not[/i] show an increase in low-level crime and what is annoyingly called "anti-social behaviour" if in fact the people being victimised or affected by it got largely inured to it and stopped caring. It is, in other words, possible to imagine people under-reporting it to the BCS as well as not bothering to report it to the police.

I have no suspicion that that is the case particularly BTW.

Of course, we might say that if people aren't bothered by "an epidemic of feral youth" because they have got used to a very low standard of behaviour and very high insurance premiums then it isn't really a problem. Not attractive reasoning though... 🙂