[Closed] Fare-Dodger 'may' take legal action......

So all you people who think it was OK to assault the lad. I hate people who park illegally. is it oK for me to assault tehm to make tehm move their car to a legal space? If not why not as you think its OK for this lad to be assaulted?

is it oK for me to assault tehm to make tehm move their car to a legal space?

I don't. But I also don't think it's right for everyone else to pay the price and the lad to be treated as some sort of victim who's rights take precedence over everyone else he happens to encounter.

He's not a lad. He is a 19 yo prick. At his age I would've been mortified if my parents seen me act like that. Still would to be honest.

Personally TJ - I would take them outside and execute them in front of their families 🙄

Now, if you want to [b]really[/b] see how to get someone off a train...

He's not a lad.

Fair point. I was trying to be polite. Use the term 'arrogant selfish ****er' instead please.

boblo - Member

I don't. But I also don't think it's right for everyone else to pay the price and the lad to be treated as some sort of victim who's rights take precedence over everyone else he happens to encounter.

And who is saying that?

So all you people who think it was OK to assault the lad. I hate people who park illegally. is it oK for me to assault tehm to make tehm move their car to a legal space? If not why not as you think its OK for this lad to be assaulted?

the 19y/o 'lad' was somewhere he shouldn't have been - so gets ejected
the car is somewhere it shouldn't be - so gets ejected

Simples, although highly annoying when you don't realise you've made an @rse of it and Edinburgh City Council **** off with your car 🙄

Boblo - I have intervened when needed and I am sure I will do again. Both dealing with antisocial behaviour and with stopping violence.

So legend I can tow an illegally parked car away and chuck it in the river? Glad to hear that

Both dealing with antisocial behaviour and with stopping violence.

TJ I simply can't be bothered to try.... As the Loreal ad goes... 'Cos, You're not worth it...'. No offence and all that.

A spot of music anyone?
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So its Ok to assault a fare dodger but not a illegal parker?

An illegal parker isn't inconveniencing a whole train of people.

So legend I can tow an illegally parked car away and chuck it in the river? Glad to hear that

yeah go nuts.

although in the context of this thread, a platform isn't quite as bad as a river (unless the platform is Croy) so doesn't really lend weight to any arguement

An illegal parker isn't inconveniencing a whole train of people.

I don't think he's been convicted of assault yet has he TJ?

kaesae - Member
I'm gonig to go with NO, D'OH!

Simply because he just gave authorisation for a complete stranger to have control over the situation

Not only is he responsible for everything the bigman does after that point, he has also escalated the situation and lost all the control that he had.

Genius!!!

Eh? I said nothing at all to do with what happened after

I was replying to your rather rambling post where you said the 'big man' should have 'varifyed' the ticket for himself. No need, as the conductor has already done so, and given that he is in a position of authority in this situation it is totally reasonably to trust his judgement.

kaesae - Member
HAHAHA! HEEHEEHEE!! HOHOHO!!!

I'm sure there will be a lot of mixed feelings and opinions on this matter/incident.

However the bigman did not check the ticket for himself or even attempt to understand what was going on, he looked over checked the size of the guy and then intervened.

Had it been necessary to call the police and had the smaller man/youth tried to leave the scene, then intervention would have been acceptable.

However to act like that, without even varifying the information on the ticket or trying to gain a better understanding of the situation before choosing a course of action, is illogical as well as irrisponsible and can only be applauded by fools.

THERE WILL BE NO SHORTAGE OF APPLAUSE!!!

It is necessary that we come to understand situations before we choose our courses of action, if your parents or culture has not taught you to respect that simple obvious fact, then they have failed to teach you something of great value and importance in life!

I would have to at this point wonder, what else they have failed to teach you
Posted 14 seconds ago # Report-Post

I don't think he's been convicted of assault yet has he TJ?

He's been convicted in the court of TJ, and thats enough 😆

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bobbyg81 - Member

An illegal parker isn't inconveniencing a whole train of people.

round here they are - either blocking pavements or cause gridlock with the buses - I see both every day one parked car delaying hundreds of people

~so do I wait for the police to deal with them or do I take action myself and remove eh car even if that means damaging it - and damaging a car is less than damaging a person.

according to you guys I Can simply take action myself removing the car and assaulting the driver if necessary

Illegal parking is a traffic offence. Fraud is a crime. The powers available - to the police and the public - to deal with them differ. Poor analogy.

[quote=TJ]...I have intervened when needed and I am sure I will do again. Both dealing with antisocial behaviour and with stopping violence.

[quote=don simon]How can you do that without assaulting anyone?

An interesting question, that has been asked before on another thread, and didn't get an answer then either ??

TJ carries pepper spray at all times.

An interesting question, that has been asked before on another thread, and didn't get an answer then either ??

Just think of all the knowledge you've missed out on DS.

How does the killfile work again? 😆

An interesting question, that has been asked before on another thread, and didn't get an answer then either ??

I did answer it. You have a defence against assault if the force you use is reasonable and the minimum required

Some of the incidents - like restraining a guy who was attempting to beat up a woman would be perfectly reasonable, Others might not be. Do you want me to go thru half a dozen interventions over a period of decades? I would do them all again.

Do you want me to go thru half a dozen interventions over a period of decades?

What's inertesting about this, isn't the facts of the incident, it's people's interpretation of events. Unsurprising that certain individuals have chosen to interpret the Law to suit their own particular adgendae.

What is perhaps not noticeable at first glance, is an undercurrent of anger within quite a few people, and a sense of frustration that things aren't as they would like, in life. This manifests itself in the frequent displays of vitriol directed toward the target du jour, in this case those what don't pay for things everyone else is expected to. Understandable. There's something else on here about tube drivers pay/striking, I notice. Similar sort of attitudes in that one too.

And I get the feeling that those condoning and applauding the actions of Big Man would themselves like to be in a position of power over others, as they perhaps don't feel this so much in Real Life. Almost as though they need the occasional Big Man standing up to injustice and wrongness, in order to feel better about themselves. They can, for a moment, be a Big Man by proxy.

It's understandable that people's initial reactions may well be to support the actions of those believing they are doing the right thing by others, but it's important that people don't lose sight of why the Law is the way it is. The Law is an often strange and complex beast, that at times does not in any way seem to make immediate sense, but is there mainly for the Greater Good of all citizens, without prejudice. It's not a perfect animal, but then neither is Humanity.

I think it's good to step back and take in a wider perspective, wherever possible, or there's the risk of getting sucked into a narrow tunnel of blinkered self-interest.

And it's helpful to take a step back, and think 'does this really matter a great deal in the Big Scheme Of Things?'

X

a guy who was attempting to beat up a woman

[u]Attempting[/u]? So, he hadn't [i]actually[/i] used violence, just you thought he [u]might[/u], eh TJ?

interesting 😉 Seeing has he hadn't actually beat her up, then by your standards, that was assault!

Come on - next example please

so by your "logic" I cannot stop an attempted murder till death occurs then or i will be done for "assault"

that big man was lucky, ive know people get stabed for much less.

that's deffo don simon's best santa smiley contribution yet

So because people aren't happy in their own lives or feel powerless somehow it encourages agression towards those who choose not to not buy a ticket?
Nothing to do with the fact they're trying to get home / work / somewhere / anywhere and they're being stopped by some little nyaff who's a bit tired and emotional after a hard [s]exam[/s] session on the ale.
This is not a situation to be considering the criminal because he has "rights", this is about the needs of the many, the people who paid their fare, sat down and behaved themselves.
I grabbed a shoplifter in the street running away from a shop and restrained them until security arrived. I wasn't acting under anyone's instruction / jurisdiction. Did I assault her by doing so? I was holding her against her will in a public space after all.
Big man removed nyaff with minimal force and prevented said nyaff from re-entering train. Nyaff runs at big man to try and get back on the train and is put on his arris, twice. Sounds fair and proportionate to me. Disproportionate would be dragging the little twerp out by his hair and puching him when he tried to get back on.

Besides Linlithgow has the Four Marys pub, a splendid place to sit by the fire and drink some quality ale. Only a minutes walk from the Station too.

Which of us doesn't dream of being the caped-crusader, the avenger of wrongs, the punisher of neds...

But we can't be. So TJ - despite his track record of shouting at numpty driver HR bosses of organisations he finds he is leaving shortly afterwards.. is right.

Leaving on one side the way that there are lots of documented examples of capricious and unreasonable implementation of ticket rules by ticket inspectors in the UK, the way that there was no viable way of dealing with the scrote without third party intervention is Scotrail's problem, not its passengers, and Scotrail must expect to be exploited by scrotes and willing to backdown unless they change their system.

Tempting though it must be to slam dunk the little git, that doesn't exactly teach any lesson other than to carry a blade next time.

Hopefully this assault - for that is what it was - will not result in a charge. I'd love to think the family of the scrote would be ashamed.... somehow I doubt it,

That's deep, Elf, very deep

bigyinn - you and the shoplifter. IMO you are on the right side of the law there - its a fine line - and if I can without being patronising I say well done for being a pubic minded citizen.

You approve, that's alright then...

That's deep, Elf, very deep

Thanks, overthehill. 🙂

So because people aren't happy in their own lives or feel powerless somehow it encourages agression towards those who choose not to not buy a ticket?

Yes. It's a form of displacement; someone can be angry at someone or something, yet powerless to deal with that situation, then seek out an easier target for their rage. Bit like a bloke gets peed off at work, gets shouted at by his boss, can't do owt, goes home to kick the cat and beat the wife.

Or as in this case; be Big Men by proxy; fantasise about teaching No Pay a lesson. No Pay becomes a convenient target for their ire, and represents all that the person is angry with. Yet as has even bin admitted by some, in Real Life they woon't do anything at all. Big Man represents who they'd like to be, rather than the impotent powerless individual they actually are.

It's also kind of similar in a weird way to you know that girl at school you used to tease her and pull her hair? Well, secretly, deep down, you fancied her...

Don't ask me to explain that right now I'm too tired and I've got some lovely tasty Chinese/Vietnamese food to enjoy. 😐

Do you want me to go thru half a dozen interventions over a period of decades?

Aye go on then, I've got a quiet evening.

Elf,

Where you see dark motives, there could also perhaps be the chance of light.

Big Man could also attract advocates because he represents someone taking a stand against selfishness - an admirable, civic-minded act.

To borrow a bit of Tolstoy: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Actually elf you may well have a point. Perhaps if more people acted and did they may feel empowered rather than impotent.
The trouble is the neds are usually better equipped.

Thanks TJ, although being older and wiser I wonder if I'd do the same now?

Quite frankly he's a wee bawbag and them yoof have no respect whatsoever. I applaud the Big Guy for chucking him off. That the little bawbag decided to use force to get back onto the train, without a ticket and with no intention of buying a ticket as he had no money, then stopping him was reasonable and in the process he may have hurt himself. Good.
If we let people get away with this sort of behaviour it becomes normalised and I for one am scared about how little respect we give each other these days.
<engage internet hardman mode>If it was me i would have leathered the little sh1t as well</engage internet hardman mode>

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

I thought that quote was attributed to Edmund Burke?

Elf,

Where you see dark motives, there could also perhaps be the chance of light.

Sadly, there is but little illumination within the souls of those who chose to stay blinkered. 🙁

the way that there was no viable way of dealing with the scrote without third party intervention is Scotrail's problem, not its passengers, and Scotrail must expect to be exploited by scrotes and willing to backdown unless they change their system.

This.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't the scrote holding up 100s of people on the train, it was the ticket inspector. I have to wonder whether it's their policy to encourage other passengers to do their job for them by acting in this way.