[Closed] Fare-Dodger 'may' take legal action......

the way that there was no viable way of dealing with the scrote without third party intervention is Scotrail's problem, not its passengers, and Scotrail must expect to be exploited by scrotes and willing to backdown unless they change their system.

This.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't the scrote holding up 100s of people on the train, it was the ticket inspector. I have to wonder whether it's their policy to encourage other passengers to do their job for them by acting in this way.

So, someone says "I'm not paying", standoff, guard gives up, train carries on, person gets off.

So WhyTF exactly would anyone pay ever then ?

Most ****n stupid thing i have ever read on the whole interbongo ever. Seriously. Some of you lot have your heads up your arse. Our moral and social fabric is fukked because of exactly this attitude. Someone who is prepared to stand up for decent behaviour and sensible respect gets applauded in my view.

When I come to a burning building, and there are little orphans trapped inside begging to be rescued from their horrible fate... If I am scared, I just ask myself; "What would TandemJeremy do?" And I wander off to argue with dozens of people over a number of threads.... 🙂

Most ****n stupid thing i have ever read on the whole interbongo ever. Seriously. Some of you lot have your heads up your arse. Our moral and social fabric is fukked because of exactly this attitude. Someone who is prepared to stand up for decent behaviour and sensible respect gets applauded in my view.

Could you not have said all that without resorting to using foul and abusive language?

yes if you spoke like that in front of me I would assault you and await your applause for my decent behaviour 🙄

Our moral and social fabric is fukked because of exactly this attitude.

What attitude is that? My attititude would be "I've paid a large profitable company for a train journey, therefore I don't expect to have to get into a fight ON THEIR BEHALF because they can't deal with a fare dodger and I want to get home on time".

I think big man did this for his own selfish "NEEDS" he is a bully for this, yes the boy was stupid talking to him like that, but it wasn't for him to get up and show his masculine side now was it? And NZCOl, you sound like an idiot! Obviously the boy was in the wrong, but it could have been dealt with correctly by the police, at the station! And it would have too! Do you think big man would have "shown off" if the train dodger had been bigger than him? Hmmm, I had a stepfather like him who use to like throwing his weight around! Not a nice person, let me tell you.

Fare dodger was in the wrong and his behaviour was not acceptable but neither was the Conductor. Standing there shouting "OFF OFF OFF" is not a professionally way to deal with it.

He should have given him the three choices pay, get off or be met by BTP at the next stop.

He will have been on CCTV etc

No one would have been inconvenienced and life would have been good for most of the people on the train.

Now through his actions some member of the public could be facing an assault charge.

Just because some people behave badly does not mean we have to sink to their level.

but it could have been dealt with correctly by the police, at the station! And it would have too!

I think this has been covered already.

Next station only a few minutes away, unmanned at that time of night and police response times would mean they would not be there to meet the train.

So how would you deal with it without delaying everyone on the train, and no doubt other trains as a result ???

He should have given him the three choices

pay

the yoof is heard on the video quite loudly saying he has no money

get off

thats the option the conductor offered him

or be met by BTP at the next stop.

we dont know if this was mentioned, but not a likely ending to scenario for reasons discussed at length above.

try to familiarise yourself with the sources before posting.

A similar thing happened when I was on the train. He had a sob story about his wallet being nicked. I was feeling rather unwell and eager to get home so I gave the bloke the money for his ticket and we all got home on time. 8)

davidrussell - Member
He should have given him the three choices
pay
the yoof is heard on the video quite loudly saying he has no money
get off
thats the option the conductor offered him
or be met by BTP at the next stop.
we dont know if this was mentioned, but not a likely ending to scenario for reasons discussed at length above.
try to familiarise yourself with the sources before posting.
POSTED 7 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Exactly! No need for any macho man to intervene! He would have been caught and prosecuted and he would have been on CCTV.

try to familiarise yourself with the sources before posting.

I was quite aware of what had been said about this in the past.

It does not matter if the BTP could be there or not, it probably would have been enough to get all but the most idiotic people off the train.

The fare dodger was an low life and the Conductor was crap at his job. This lead to a putting members of the public in an awkward position and it did not need to happen.

Who cares if the little git got away with it, next time he won't when its possible to call the BTP. Sometimes you have to look at the greater good.

If I was on the train and faced with a 1/2 delay or just getting on with it I would not give a damn if he was done or not I would just want to get home. Which I guess is the position of 90% of the people on the train.

Exactly! No need for any macho man to intervene!

i think we are all agreed that big man didn't "need" to intervene, but he did. Nobody knows the exact circumstances why he did or what he felt etc, but he intervened.It was a decision he took and i'm sure he will have reviewed that decision many many times since then, not least for the amount of publicity that's been generated since the event.

The bottom line is that he did what he felt was right at the time. We'll see whether he was right or wrong to do that in the eyes of the law.

i don't think there is much doubt though that no pay was in the wrong on several counts too, and i find his (constantly changing)version of events particularly distasteful.

Exactly! No need for any macho man to intervene! He would have been caught and prosecuted and he would have been on CCTV.

Wouldn't that be lovely, meanwhile, back in the real world...

What I'm seeing here is a sad attitude of 'not my problem' dressed up as legal justification. The same attitude that sees people walk on by when someone is getting abused or assaulted on the street. (Not you TJ, you've made that clear. You are a much more complicated case...)

Who cares if the little git got away with it, next time he won't when its possible to call the BTP. Sometimes you have to look at the greater good.

And so when some "little git" nicks your bike in broad daylight and nobody does anything, and you moan about on here.

Will you be ok with me saying

[b]"I'm glad nobody did anything to stop him, who cares if he got away with it, he'll probably get caught next time"[/b]

I dont feel the kid should have been allowed to travel without paying for the ticket.
whatever circumstances, he should have been ejected based purely on his language and attitude.
The old guy was not in a position to physically do it, so accepted help.

seems pretty simple and the greater good was seen to be done. (at least from the reaction of the passengers)

The bottom line is that he did what he felt was right at the time. We'll see whether he was right or wrong to do that in the eyes of the law.

i don't think there is much doubt though that no pay was in the wrong on several counts too, and i find his (constantly changing)version of events particularly distasteful.

Morally FD got what he deserved but and this is a big but this is all with hindsight.

What if the FD had some form of mental illness ?

There is no way the conductor should have said yes to big man intervening. He should have told him that he was dealing with it and not to get involved.

Conductor could not do his job and was out of his depth. Its sad but its the truth of the matter.

Its like the 15 year old that nicked my bike, he had a real full on fight with the police when they caught him, it took three officers to get him in the van, and yet he claims he was assaulted.
And I mean the first officer tackled him off the bike, the kids reaction wasnt to start running it was to square up and start throwing punches.

Sorry but anyone can claim assault but Im tired of it.

Conductor could not do his job and was out of his depth

what else would you have him do?

EDIT - we've been over this ad nauseum already so unless its a revolutionary idea not posted above, then i dont think there is anything else he could have done. He may have refused to accept the passengers help in getting him off the train, but that doesn't mean events wouldn't have played out as they did.

and yet he claims he was assaulted

He can claim whatever he likes, can't he? It's whether or not his claims are justified that is the problem. I don't expect a bike thief (or a fare dodger for that matter) are very keen on accepting responsibility for their actions so he's likely to try every excuse in the book I reckon.

According to some he should have not made a fuss and let him go as what if he had been;
a - a woman
b - a pregnant woman
c - mental problems
d - old

etc etc

one from personal experience here..

many years ago when I was still a tiny wee pimple on the arse of society, me and an associate were trying to steal a pair of jeans from C&A.. (I'd been sent into town by my mum with cash for new jeans and I had spunked it on hash and cider)

long story short.. we got chased through the streets by store detectives until I was forcefully apprehended by a large and capable member of the public.. the broken fingers and cuts and bruises didn't hurt even half as much as getting frogmarched back to the shop through a mile of appreciative onlookers.. I don't think that I can honestly say that I turned my life around that day but it certainly made me think twice about choring stuff from shops..

we used to think it was us against the world when we were lads.. and that we were invincible and could act with impunity.. I think that sometimes you need to realise that the world is more than capable of fighting back..

EDIT - we've been over this ad nauseum already so unless its a revolutionary idea not posted above already, then i dont think there is anything else he could have done.

I told you what I thought he should have done. It really did not matter that much if BTP were at the next stop, he would have been on CCTV and he should have been pursued this way.

I have to assume that ScotRail have a procedure for this and I am guessing it does not involve help from a member of the public.

I think he worried too much about him "getting away with it" so much so he forgot about the safety and service to the paying customers on the train.

Yunki, nice one. Good of you to share an experience from the flip side of the coin...

"a procedure for this"
I love that mentality.

I think that sometimes you need to realise that the world is more than capable of fighting back..

Exactly !

But they need to be allowed to fight back otherwise we're ****ed.

"a procedure for this"
I love that mentality.

Care to elaborate ?

many years ago when I was still a wee little pimple on the arse of society, me and an associate were trying to steal a pair of jeans from C&A.. (I'd been sent into town by my mum with cash for new jeans and I had spunked it on hash and cider)

😆

Why did you not do the 'take two pairs into the changing room and put one pair under your baggy jeans then put the other pair back on't shelf' trick?

I remember being chased down Oxford St by two big security guards; being small and agile gave me a massive advantage in the dense crowds, and helped me evade capture. I ended up by an upstairs floor window in I think it mightuv bin Olympus Sport, laughing my head off as the two big lumps wandered around outside, scratching their heads. 😀

No Pay 2, Big Men 0.

And the couple of times I've bin stopped by ticket inspectors without a ticket, I've just given a false name and addy. Simples. 🙂

Well put Yunki, trouble is there are too many dogooders looking for a reason to justify his behaviour when the long and short of it is he was a prat and living in these parts you know if you behave like that at some point you will be challenged about it, and for all that are going on about what if he was old/pregnant/mental health issues well he wasn't, ( as my old gaffer would say 'if your mum had a c£*% she would be your dad')

The produres for this, the police, they are all there because WE THE PEOPLE authorise them to enforce the law of the land on our behalf. When they are not available, there are situations that I feel that as a member of civilised society, I am morally obliged to step in, if I can do so safely and capably. I should imagine that big man felt similar. It's not about the legal definition of assault, or who's job it is, it's about knowing right from wrong. In my opinion.

avoid a decision, and let someone else take the blame.

the im just doing my job culture,
there's a procedure for that,

partly why a lady died in a hole whilst fire crews were prevented from saving her life.

they didnt have a procedure, they had to wait for the right equipment etc, it stops people applying common sense to a situation.

Bollox in my view, I hate it with a passion.

No Pay 2, Big Men 0.

our usual trick was to go in mob handed and help ourselves to armfuls.. there would be so many of us it was like someone had emptied a bucket of psychotic rats into the shop..

we were a bit short-staffed that day however..

well isnt Elfin so great for getting away with it.

good on you Elfin for stealing.
Im glad you feel so smug for stealing from someone and getting away with it.

You remind me of the 15 year old who tried to steal my bike. or the guys trying to break in to my shop.

It's good to know there are people on here that feel good that they can get away with theft.

Conductor could not do his job and was out of his depth. Its sad but its the truth of the matter.

So far the only answers I've heard are: "Wait for BTP" which is fine but disrupts not only the 100 people on that train but about 600 travelling on that line in general. "Let him go" - not much point on having ticket inspectors if you just need to get lippy to not have to pay. CCTV isn't going to prove he was travelling without a valid ticket, or that he was being abusive on the train, even if it was good enough to ID him.

The best answer was 'put his bag on the platform' - but I can see him lashing out in that process whereas he was restrained as he was removed.

A similar thing happened when I was on the train. He had a sob story about his wallet being nicked. I was feeling rather unwell and eager to get home so I gave the bloke the money for his ticket and we all got home on time.

laughing my head off as the two big lumps wandered around outside, scratching their heads.

No Pay 2, Big Men 0.

And the couple of times I've bin stopped by ticket inspectors without a ticket, I've just given a false name and addy. Simples.

I'm sure it's of no interest to you, but you've just lost a lot of my respect. Still boasting about it, eh? 😐

t's good to know there are people on here that feel good that they can get away with theft.

I don't think he's off on a spree this afternoon though is he..!?

he's barely capable of riding a pushbike these days.. let alone evading capture in a busy high street..

I'm sure it's of no interest to you, but you've just lost a lot of my respect. Still boasting about, eh

Yup. Me too.

The produres for this, the police, they are all there because WE THE PEOPLE authorise them to enforce the law of the land on our behalf

So the Germans are in charge of us after all?

So the Germans are in charge of us after all?

Yunki, it's not his admission, I think it's the proud tone that it came across with. Yours didn't. I know where they're coming from, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, he has got an, ummm, inimitable style of prose.

I still got no answer to this:

those of you that think it was acceptable for the big man to get involved., is it acceptable for me to use force to remove a car that is parked illegally?

well isnt Elfin so great for getting away with it.

good on you Elfin for stealing.
Im glad you feel so smug for stealing from someone and getting away with it.

I was about fourteen or fifteen. Shoplifting was a bit of a 'phase' I went through; I did it for the buzz more than anything.

As for 'feeling smug'; as a kid I spose I did feel a sense of 'power' having got one over the two big guards. Probbly something to do with the natural rebelliousness of yute, the wanting to show authority I coon't be controlled, that sort of thing. Y'know, the kind of thing most kids go through...

What I won't do, is feel [i]guilty[/i] nearly 25 years later about something I did as a misguided, misdirected yute. Cos it's done, no going back now and undoing it, is there? And why waste energy and emotion feeling full of guilt, if I don't need to? In the past, done, dusted.

I'm sure it's of no interest to you, but you've just lost a lot of my respect.

Whatever. If you want to judge me by mistakes I made twenty five years ago, up to you I spose.

I don't think he's off on a spree this afternoon though is he..!?

he's barely capable of riding a pushbike these days.. let alone evading capture in a busy high street..

😆 I'd mess meself if I even thought about shoplifting these days. My bottle went many years ago. As for the fare-evasion thing; well there were times when I just coon't afford the fare to get to college or wherever, and me bike weren't working/had bin nicked, so I bunked the fare. Hardly a crime in the same league as the Brinks Mat Robbery...

London Transport seems to still be running (and making a profit too!) in spite of my attempts to bring it to it's financial knees...

our usual trick was to go in mob handed and help ourselves to armfuls.. there would be so many of us it was like someone had emptied a bucket of psychotic rats into the shop..

Ah, 'Steaming'. I always operated alone, far more effective, individually speaking. In fact, I only ever got propperly caught once, and only chased about two or three times. Which, considering how prolific I was, was pretty remarkable considering. 😀

Oh and I've paid for other people's tickets when they've had no money, given people a bit of change in a supermarket when they've bin a few pence short, that sort of thing. Am I redeemed?

Or doomed to be forever condemned by the Self Righteous Never Done Nuffink Wrong Me Whole Life Honest To God Guv Brigade?

*Sigh*

TJ, talk is cheap.

Just Go for it, if you think it's the right thing to do ?

See what happens.

Just like Big Man did.

People will have lots of differing opinions on it I'm sure (after the event)

Elfin - ok, so you dont need to feel guilty perhaps but some remorse/reflection might not go amiss.

Plus gloating about juvenile criminality is probably taking it too far. Silly posts, perhaps?

TJ - still harping on about irrelevant factors.

Its settled FACT that there was an existing legal power for the scrote to be removed by force from the train.

The only possible issue you can raise here, is WHO used the force.