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its not rocket scinece
lol
#3 is dependent on BTP having the resources and means to get to the next station (4 mins away someone mentioned, and also the scrote's intended destination) before the train does. The only way to ensure this is to hold the train (which is apparently what the guard had in mind before bigman waded in), or continue to the next station but delay opening the doors.
so no qualification TJ.
The only way to ensure this is to hold the train (which is apparently what the guard had in mind before bigman waded in), or continue to the next station but delay opening the doors.
I agree, it's not ideal. But put yourself in the kid's [position: if you know you can't escape, and the police are on their way, you might choose to be a bit more compliant, no?
I've seen this at first hand (gobby kid refusing to buy ticket. The conductor gave him three options:
1. Buy a ticket and continue with his journey.
2. Get off the train.
3. Have a chat with BTP at the next station.
Those are essentially the same options given in this case:
- said he doesn't have any money
- refused to get off train
- no point going to next station (4 mins away and his intended destination) there are no BTP there, so wait at this station 30+ mins for police to arrive from Edinburgh.
But put yourself in the kid's [position: if you know you can't escape, and the police are on their way, you might choose to be a bit more compliant, no?
Put yourselves in all the other passenger's position, you know you can't escape, you know you're going to be late for where you're going despite having paid for your ticket, all because Scotrail are trying to wring an extra tenner out of some kid because they're too tight to pay for station staff? I'd be pissed off.
no point going to next station (4 mins away and his intended destination) there are no BTP there, so wait at this station 30+ mins for police to arrive from Edinburgh.
At which point the rest of the passengers, who have paid for their tickets have to sit and wait, potentially miss connections while waiting for this little **** to be sorted out. Big man did good.
Put yourselves in all the other passenger's position, you know you can't escape, you know you're going to be late for where you're going despite having paid for your ticket, all because Scotrail are trying to wring an extra tenner out of some kid because they're too tight to pay for station staff? I'd be pissed off.
In which case, let the kid go.
hardly trying to get an extra tenner out the kid, just to get the correct fare.
Also hardly a problem with Scotrail, more a problem with a dumb abusive gob shite kid.
agree, it's not ideal. But put yourself in the kid's [position: if you know you can't escape, and the police are on their way, you might choose to be a bit more compliant, no?
Kid knew this would not be a feasible option and chanced his mitt,he is also known for being a dickhead. Also the big man is a fireman nealglover
I'm writing to my MSP to ask that to make sure the law protects citizens who come forward in such circumstances.
The poor little babby should be prosecuted for fare evasion and resisting reasonable efforts to remove him.
they don't have ticket barriers, so its a mute point the ticket inspector can't fix that. I suspect there isn't even any staff at Polmont station at 9pm.There's no 'good' answer for that. If Scotrail had manned ticket gates at each station then it would have been much easier for him just to continue with the journey and let them deal with it
if he doesn't take some "decisive action" then fair dodger gets off at next stop and walks away "the winner" and all the other passengers have lost out by having to pay when he didn't. Then the problem continues in the future and everybody's fares go up. The expectation from the "I can wait all night, I'm getting paid, its these 100 other people you are pissing off" I think is (quite reasonably) that he will be embarrassed enough to get off the train, the train can continue its journey and the young man (he's 19 - not a "kid") can work out how to complete his journey, without adding further disruption to everyone else or wasting BTP time by travelling half way across Scotland.Stopping the train, then claiming that 'he could wait, he was getting paid' was entirely the wrong way to do it. Why should all the other customers lose out because Scotrail don't have an efficient mechanism to stop fare dodgers?
Doubt he would have got away with that for so long if he was coming from Glasgow. He would have been filled in good an proper with some fare paying ned that just wanted to get home.
Then the problem continues in the future and everybody's fares go up.
This is trivially true. I worked out that the total claimed cost of fare evasion is equivalent to 14p per passenger journey.
Does anyone know the correct way to eject someone from a train without the risk of prosecution?
It's actually quite reassuring that common sense seems to out weigh handwringing on this thread. Fireman? Someone said Investment banker, although it may have been rhyming slang. Although it would have been more accurately aimed at the fare dodger.
14p per passenger journey
so regular commuters are forking out £1.40 per week for non paying passengers? If i commuted regularly i wouldn't be happy absorbing that cost.
Also hardly a problem with Scotrail, more a problem with a dumb abusive gob shite kid.
The problem is that Scotrail have no means of dealing with dumb abusive gobshites. One dumb abusive gobshite should not be able to paralyse a whole train full of people trying to get home on a friday night.
Ages ago I thought I'd be clever and buy my tickets the day before to save time the next morning. On the day the conductor wouldn't accept them as they were dated the day before, despite them obviously being unused and being for the correct day ticket fare. Instead of stopping the train and demanding that someone else chuck me off the train, she just told me that I could stay on but that the station staff would probably make me buy a new ticket. Problem solved, train doesn't get held up, and Scotrail get their money in the end*
*or not, as it turned out, as the gate staff were a bit more understanding than the conductor, but the point still stands.
I travel on that line all the time and have never heard of two singles costing less than a return. That is a lie for a start. Also, if he was travelling from Edinburgh to Falkirk then why was his single ticket from Polmont to Edinburgh Park.
I smell sh1te!!
The big fella was right to chuck the guy off. Maybe it was a bit heavy handed but the young guy was clearly going to throw a punch until the bigger fella grabbed his hand (and the two of them fell). Why should a whole train be inconvenienced by one wee scrote.
If the young guy just wanted his bag or to be able to produce the right ticket then why didn't he ask for the bag back rather than trying to charge his way back onto the train. If I was the big fella then I'd be saying that was when the grazes happened.
Does anyone know the correct way to eject someone from a train without the risk of prosecution?
Ring BTP and wait half a hour for them to turn up...
ncfenwick - Member
Does anyone know the correct way to eject someone from a train without the risk of prosecution?
Maybe if Big Man had picked up No Pay's bag, walked calmly out onto the platform, and hung it on the fence then got back on the train.
I reckon the beeps warning of the impending closing of the doors would have evicted the little cherub from the train fairly swiftly ?
(Also denying him the opportunity to take a cheese grater to his face at home in an effort to claim "compo")
TJ - you're wrong - there is no right to use force in ejecting a trespasser in Scottish Law, so A bouncer does not have the right you claim he does.
‘Bell’s Principles of the Laws of Scotland ’ 1899, para 961.the only way of enforcing exclusive
right of possession and excluding intruders is a civil process of
interdict; but this remedy will not be granted where no right is
asserted and no appreciable injury is done, at least in regard to
unenclosed ground open to the public. The use of force to eject a
trespasser is unlawful.’
Now, back to the train guard - he [b]does[/b] have a right to use force to eject a non paying passenger (railway bye-laws, s24)
I suppose TJ thinks that the, fairly elderly, train guard should have used his lawful power to eject the abusive 19 year old scrote, and all the while the innocent bystander train passengers are prohibited from going to his assistance as the yave no "right" to do so 🙄
Maybe if Big Man had picked up No Pay's bag, walked calmly out onto the platform, and hung it on the fence then got back on the train.
That'll be theft or robbery according to one of the STW barristers 🙂
Maybe if Big Man had picked up No Pay's bag, walked calmly out onto the platform, and hung it on the fence then got back on the train.
That may have been an elegant solution, untiL TJ comes along crying theft...
EDIT, darn, beaten to it.
14p per passenger journey
I hope this cost is being borne in its entirety by Scotrail customers! Or the Scots as a nation at the very least!
or [b]OR[/b], as per bloody usual, will the bloody free-loaders be looking south of the border to cover the shortfall? I thought so! Bloody typical! 🙄
Yeah right zulu. 🙄 😆
That'll be theft or robbery according to one of the STW [s]barristers[/s] nurses
Fixed it for you.
it will be more than 14p binners, because NFPWS* has upped the average for Scotland.
*Non Fare Paying Wee Scrote
so regular commuters are forking out £1.40 per week for non paying passengers? If i commuted regularly i wouldn't be happy absorbing that cost.
Only if you believe the train companies' claims. For a start, how would they know? Secondly, if the loss really is as reported, then that implies the train companies are not recovering it from other passengers, but instead are absorbing the lost revenue.
Bearing in mind the financial trouble his industry have got the country, in Mr Pollock has some brass neck throwing a kid off a train for not paying his fare - I wonder how much tax his clients avoid paying?
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-14/europe/30514982_1_fare-blackrock-train
If I recall from the video, doesn't big man ask the conductor if he want's the scrote removed? As the conductor is obviously quite old, would he be allowed to pass on his right to eject a passenger to a member of the public?
Theft - "intent to permanently deprive" IIRC so it wouldn't be theft 🙂 which is why we have the offence of TWOC for cars cos it ain't theft if you give it back again 🙂
The solution to this is simple. If conductors need to remove none-paying passengers, scrotes or not, without manhandling them, or requiring fat blokes to do so on their behalf, then I believe James Bond has already suggested a solution
[img] 
[/img]
All trains should be adopted so that at the flick of a switch, any wee scamp can be rocketed into the night sky
My god the boy has got it 🙂
Binners for PM
All trains should be adopted so that at the flick of a switch, any wee scamp can be rocketed into the night sky
does this apply if the shenanigans occur in a tunnel?
OMG - the humiliation just keeps piling up for boy. not only ejected from a train for behaving like a right fkwit, it goes on youtube for the world to enjoy. not only that, but thrown off by a banker, a ****IN BANKER. PMSL - seriously, that boy has a long future of being pointed to and laughed at. Most people would try and keep it quiet, but not this muppet.
The loss to the train companies can only be at best estimated, as how would you accurately record it?
Also it the Railway companies duty to its shareholders and also the government to maximise its profits, as many (if not all) TOCs no longer receive subsidies and have to pay a dividend to the treasury.
Why should the railway companies have to absorb fare dodgers abstraction of its revenue?
Its no different from stealing a set of brake pads from your LBS. Too many shoplifters = closed shop.
Bigyinn - Scotrail get a massive subsidy (over 50%) so its stealing from people who didn't even get on the train!
Slackin, I believe the references to Falkirk may have been inserted by the Media since nobody actually knows where polmont is. Two singles would not cost less than a day return - but a Full Price Single (bought before 9.30am) and a "Student Rail Card Single" bought for travel after 9.30am MIGHT cost less than a full price return. But at no point in the video does he attempt to explain this. He may have tried before the video started. If he doesn't understand that without a ticket that says Edinburgh Park TO Polmont he doesn't have a valid ticket then I wonder if HWU have relaxed their entry requirements since I went there.slackin101 - Member
I travel on that line all the time and have never heard of two singles costing less than a return. That is a lie for a start. Also, if he was travelling from Edinburgh to Falkirk then why was his single ticket from Polmont to Edinburgh Park.I smell sh1te!!
Nah - student rail cards have a minimum fare of £12 until 10am. He'd be looking at a tenner return of £8 for a single. He'd have bought a ticket from the dude at the station in the morning as it'd be the only way he'd get onto the train. He would then have got a late train home at a time when there are very few ticket checks and nobody at the gate at the staton.
Either of them instructed Max Clifford yet? I see more telly appearances from the pair.
I see more telly appearances from the pair.
Saturday early evening viewing like Little and Large or Morecombe and Wise or even The Two Ronnies?
Zero interested I drive to work, get a life and Bore your neighbour
Big boy's actions are perfectly legitimate. Mr Ammoral Little-Toad does not have a valid ticket, Little-Toad is therefore a tesspasser, Little-Toad is asked to leave, Little-Toad does not leave, Little-Toad is therefore physically ejected from the train by a person acting on the authority of the owner of the train. Little-Toad should never be allowed to use that train line again....EVER.
Little-Toad makes a fuss and nobody has the decency to tell him he's a W and to get stuffed and shut the f up.
End of really.....why are people discussing this?
Should happen at Westminster...Big-Toad member of parliament is thieving off the public purse/lying/malfeasant/insert other as appropriate, Big-Toad should be ejected and not allowed back....EVER.
This sort of sh1t just depresses me. 100's of fare paying people have their journeys interrupted by this and people are foaming at the mouth at the 'rights' of the twit that caused the problem...
How on earth did everyone elses right to get on with whatever they were doing get subjugated to the rights of one little selfish twit to behave in this way?
The predictable responses from all the beeding heart lefties/DIY lawyers is just too much. I just hope you're never in a position where you have to agonise over taking action and thereby compromising your liberal ideals.
<sigh>