This whole year has been about spectacle, it was never about sport.
Not forgetting the 4-5 seconds in one lap that Sergio Perez held up Hamilton in one single lap earlier in the race, acting as a purposeful mobile chicane.
That was fair though, and probably the most exciting action seen at the front of a race all year while still keeping it fair. A shame Botas was incapable of helping out in a similar fashion at any point of the year.
Chance for LH to show what a real champion looks like.
Very much this. Was waiting for Max to acknowledge his opponent and wasn’t expecting it; sure enough he didn’t.
Lewis is still class! where is toto?
New Race Director needed.
I get the feeling that the next series of Drive to Survive is now more of a priority than what takes place on the track
Lewis being very magnanimous and calm under the circumstances
Them two jokers at the back pissing around and then Latifi binning it. FFS. And Masi folding like a cheap suit after RB whinged. Unbelievable
New Race Director needed.
I suspect he has done exactly what liberty media told him to do.
Michael Masi - "We went car racing". WTF?
I can't believe how angry that's made me - it's the unfairness of it.
Yeah, Lewis showing his class....Max showing he has none.
Marsis answer to Toto..blimey! He needs to go.
where is toto?
I think Masi's asking the same, and then trying to be somewhere different.....
Is Lewis going to do a podium stomp off this week?
Same here - absolute fix.
At least in NASCAR it’s part of ‘the show’. This is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport.
I can’t believe how angry that’s made me – it’s the unfairness of it.
Absolute sham. I hope Mercedes appeal but cant imagine anything will be changed
Is Lewis going to do a podium stomp off this week?
Unlikely - he already showed in that post-race interview that he has far more class than Max.
I’m not a devout Lewis fanboi, but he was utterly robbed. The first full race I’ve watched in years, but if that’s how the FIA apply whatever rulebook they decide to use that day, I’ll not bother watching again. Ridiculous.
Hamilton has been weighed and he’s been measured and he’s been found wanting. Lewis the loser
Absolute farce, restart of the race should be based on time difference when it was stopped - easy enough to sort!
That's me finished with F1.
WWE with cars.
F1 is no longer about the racing, it's all about the show. Total shit show and if I was Merc I would be fuming. So much so I'd threaten to withdraw s they were totally robbed.
Well Max didn't win that race on merit. The championship? Well he raced clean so I guess so. If roles were reversed Lewis would have taken it...
I don’t think masi has the mental capacity needed to make the right decisions at pace needed during a race.
Hamilton has been weighed and he’s been measured and he’s been found wanting. Lewis the loser
Obvious troll aside it’s got to be a tough one to swallow because he can rightly look back and say that actually as a driver he did absolutely everything right and had that race fairly won.
burner
Free Member
Hamilton has been weighed and he’s been measured and he’s been found wanting. Lewis the loser
LOL Lost his way to 7 championships you absolute tool
Well Max didn’t win that race in merit. The championship? Well he raced clean so
I’m not entirely sure (a) which championship you were watching or (b) what you’re implying.
still I think the driver that has won the most races should ultimately win the championship. Great drivers ahead of the rest by a country mile. Also amazing support drive by Perez but where was Bottas?
Bottas should have stuck it in the wall
I don’t think masi has the mental capacity needed to make the right decisions at pace needed during a race.
He's certainly got a long way to go to fill Charlie's boots.
Jos Verstappen's response just now...
"during the race, I walked away from the pit cos I didn't believe he (Max) could do it any more, but I came back for that last lap"
Sums the whole debacle up for me! 🤦🏻
I’m not entirely sure (a) which championship you were watching or (b) what you’re implying.
My view before the race was whichever one of them won today, so long as it was a clean race, deserved the WC.
Max didn't do anything wrong at the end. He just took what was handed to him so I am sticking with my thoughts.
I'm a massive massive Lewis fan BTW and would have loved to see him win 8 and yes he was robbed today but not by Max personally.
Absolute farce, restart of the race should be based on time difference when it was stopped – easy enough to sort!
That has never been the rule. There is a strong argument IMO for not allowing tyre changes under the safety car unless you have a puncture. But over the past decade or so f1 has become increasingly dependant on artificial "plot devices" to increase the entertainment value rather than just sorting out a ruleset that allows better closer racing, so I wouldn't expect any rule changes that support sporting merit. This years nasty spectacle has just been the culmination of that.
With 20/20 hindsight Merc could've pitted Lewis under the last SC - if Max stayed out for track position that last lap would've been reversed, but I'm not 100% sure they'd both have finished.
In other news, Tsunoda was fourth!
4.12.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all teams via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams via the official messaging system.
None of that was followed correctly. Mercedes have multiple avenues to appeal this result.
That's me done with F1 now.
The obvious thing to do is red flag, let everyone change tyres, re-grid then have 3 laps of racing. Still a massively improved situation for Verstappen.
Unfortunately...
I don’t think masi has the mental capacity needed to make the right decisions at pace needed during a race.
@burner, I’m not a Lewis Fan what so ever, but he clearly was the better driver in this race.
I’m glad Max won, but to in anyway criticise Lewis is plain idiocy.
To me, if the general rules are always the same, let lapped racers through, then the right decision was ultimately made. Max won it on strategy.
I do think Lewis should have pitted, surely he would still have been 2nd when the lapped drivers came through?
Amazing how Jos Verstappen has been sport-washed by his son's efforts, I really don't want to hear the opinions of a violent misogynist on TV.
Ultimately I'm happy for Max, he's been relentless, and it was cool to see him smiling for a change. I think whatever decision Masi would've made there he was going to upset some-one! I do think both Mercedes and RB can complain about inconsistent decisions though. The FIA need to sort that out.
I do think Lewis should have pitted, surely he would still have been 2nd when the lapped drivers came through?
In retrospect, better than what he ended up with. But the risk is that the race then ends under the SC, or the lapped cars do not pass, and he's just handed over the position, the race and the championship.
It's either corrupt or completely incompetent from the race director. Either is unacceptable
Bottas should have stuck it in the wall
I wish he had, hopefully he wouldn't have gotten that wrong too
To me, if the general rules are always the same, let lapped racers through, then the right decision was ultimately made.
Almost right but not exactly. It should be all lapped cars let through not just a few. That decision should not be made immediately before pulling in the SC haven't previously been saying lapped cars would not be released.
why is no-one asking Horner whether he knows what the regs say?
Think this is going to end up in court, not all lapped cars were allowed to unlap and the safety car didn't pit the lap after lapped cars had unlapped themselves. It sounds like under the regs, the race should have finished under safety car.
With 20/20 hindsight Merc could’ve pitted Lewis under the last SC – if Max stayed out for track position that last lap would’ve been reversed, but I’m not 100% sure they’d both have finished.
But then Merc are taking a gamble that Max (on fresher tyres) stays out and that the FIA then arbitrarily apply some (but not all) aspects of the rules in order to artificially manufacturer a one lap shoot-out. Heck of a gamble to take.
So once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car comes in an the end of the next lap, they didn’t do that either did they?
It sounds like under the regs, the race should have finished under safety car.
Yeah, I think they were desperate to get a spectacle out of it. Any other race, I think they'd have done that.
So once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car comes in an the end of the next lap, they didn’t do that either did they?
Not enough time to do all that, allow the lapped cars to get through and out of the way and then for one more lap. They were already approaching final lap. The "solution" was a total mess to get around that.
In the absence of having a crystal ball, the decisions not to put LH under the VSC then the SC were not strategic mistakes.
Y'know I don't think it will (go to court), and it wouldn't be the right thing to do. No one could've foreseen Latifi crashing, and that's just the way it goes sometimes.
I don’t follow F1, I occasionally watch a race and quite enjoy it.
But
Why does F1 bring out so much of this kind of attitude?
Hahahahabahha Lewis the loser
I see it quite a lot, everyone seems to have a driver that they hate.
So once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car comes in an the end of the next lap, they didn’t do that either did they?
That's how I read it.
I think Merc called it right with the cards they were dealt, and Lewis drove superbly to hold of Max on newer tyres. They were absolutely robbed at the end by not sticking to the rules
It's hard to argue with the desire to go racing, or to create a spectacle. It's entertainment in the end.
So once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car comes in an the end of the next lap, they didn’t do that either did they?
Can anything happen with such a clear breach?
No one could’ve foreseen Latifi crashing, and that’s just the way it goes sometimes.
No, but there are a set of procedures on what happens should someone crash, so you can run scenarios based on crashes at various points, not whether or not procedures will/will not/will be sort of followed.
Well, I for one am pleased for Max. I am well aware that isn’t the STW consensus
There have always been controversial decisions made in F1, many more it would appear in recent years as money and ‘spectacle’ overtook the racing.
Hamilton gracious in defeat.
“Firstly a big congratulations to Max and to his team,” he says. “We have done a great job this year. Everyone has worked so hard in the most difficult of seasons. I’ve been feeling great in the car this past couple of months. I wish everyone to stay safe and have a good Christmas with their families.”
There's probably some get-out that says the race director can apply his discretion to interpret the rules....
If they hadn't let the lapped cars through and Max just got blue flags then it still probably would have been a good last lap given his tyres. There was no way Lewis was going to win with how they restarted
Proper nail biter. Would have loved to have seen Lewis win, but Max had the luck running his way today. Did get the impression that Masi didn't want to be seen to do anything that might upset RB. Turned off the TV as I didn't think I could stand to see Horner being smug and Coulthard kissing his arse.
He’d still have been well ahead by the overtaking points. It took Hamilton a couple of laps to get through those 5 in racing conditions.
It's Sky coverage, so Coulthard nowhere to be seen. Just don't watch the highlights show later
No, but there are a set of procedures
Ultimately it's up to the race director though, and I don't think it'll do anyone any good to change the decision after the race has finished.
It’s hard to argue with the desire to go racing, or to create a spectacle. It’s entertainment in the end.
At the cost of shafting the driver that had dominanted the race and coating him the championship because someone else binned it into a wall
I don't think Merc will appeal. I don't think Lewis would particularly want to win that way and Merc will look better for it also
I could well be wrong! Looks like they've lodged two protests 🙂
I’ve been happy to give Masi the benefit of the doubt all season, given how borderline some of the decisions were and his lack of experience - CW had been doing the job for years before we ever got to hear all this stuff on the radios.
But that was too much of a cluster****. He should make a decision, communicate it and then stick with it. Not make one and then change his mind, and end up doing something that’s not a correct application if the rules.
I don’t think Mercedes should bother protesting it though, and I’m not sure they will, beyond pointing out how much Masi cocked it up. If that race had finished under the SC nobody would have thought it an injustice.
It’s done Lady Luck blessed the Red Bull team, sport throws up crazy situations now and then. Wanted Lewis to win but no one has died, it’s just cars going around in circles. On to next season.
Ultimately it’s up to the race director though,
Only on grounds of safety. Not to decide on if there should be a spectacle.
So what happened there was the slower car won because the race director didn't follow procedure. In all fairness if Hamilton had won it would have felt a little hollow as he should have given the place back on the first lap anyway.
Very disappointing all round, my impression is that Masi buckled under pressure and made a rash decision. It wouldn't bother if he was replaced tbh.
Not a Hamilton fan, but liking him more today than last week.
He did everything that could be expected of him as a driver and when fate conspired against him came out of it graciously. Hats.
Max? Well I am glad to see someone finally taking one of the championships off Mercedes. If it had to be him, so be it.
Pity Mercedes still got the main championship. A boring era in championship terms.
I always liked (and I think I’m the only one) Vettel, and he’s looking like he’s got his head together again. Be interesting if he gets a decent car.
Alonso also hasn’t lost the ability to drive.
And there are a few decent less experienced drivers too.
Now we just need evenly matched cars that can follow and overtake.
Not going to happen is it?
Lewis needed a teammate to back him today, then either of the tyre change opportunities would have been different.
As for appeals, I think there’s zero chance of the result being changed because the race officials failed.
I’m think if even max had done a demolition derby there was only slim chance that the stewards/courts would have changed the championship outcome. To be clear, he did not. That’s not what I’m saying. *if…*
To think that they’ll change the result now is naive.
I think the last few laps were a farce, but that it’ll stay how it is
Only on grounds of safety. Not to decide on if there should be a spectacle.
Exactly. His priorty should be safety and safety only. This has made the sport feel cheap and I'm asking myself whether it's worth ny time watching it
I’m sure Merc will take the attitude that they take internally: assess what’s happened, identify what’s wrong, get it fixed, and move on. They won’t want to be remembered as the one team who won a championship in a court room, let alone to be the one who tried to do so and failed.
At the end of the day Max and Lewis both deserved the title, so there’s no injustice that it’s gone to the wrong person. At every point this season things have been balanced on a knife-edge of luck. It’s just unfortunate that there has needed to be a lot of difficult back room decisions all year long, many of which never really could have had a good outcome either way.
The one take-away for me is that it’s pretty inexcusable if processes are defined up front and then not followed on a whim, so if that’s what happened then the race directing and stewarding roles need looking at.
It’s hard to argue with the desire to go racing, or to create a spectacle. It’s entertainment in the end.
At the cost of shafting the driver that had dominanted the race and coating him the championship because someone else binned it into a wall
I don't think it was a good or (legally?) correct decision. Just making the point they wanted to create a race rather than end under a safety car.
I don’t think Mercedes should bother protesting it though, and I’m not sure they will, beyond pointing out how much Masi cocked it up. If that race had finished under the SC nobody would have thought it an injustice.
Just heard protests are being lodged. I agree with above - I think you'd get a lot more kudos from pointing out the inaccuracy and then shrugging and walking away. Show class above all.
Why does F1 bring out so much of this kind of attitude?
Hahahahabahha Lewis the loser
I see it quite a lot, everyone seems to have a driver that they hate.
Well, for a couple of guys I know, I'm not sure it isn't a different kind of race thing.
I'm not a huge F1 fan, and Hamilton has been a bit of a dick at times, but comparing his reaction this week to Verstappens last week, he's managed to keep it classy and I hope that Mercedes decide to take it on the chin and leave Red Bull and Max as being the controversial winners rather trying to have it overturned so Lewis can be the controversial winner.
Well I am glad Merc are protesting the result.
I imagine the only decision which the FIA will review is the one to allow the TV audience to hear conversations between the RD and team principals.
'Lapped cars will not pass'
'Michael, we only need one racing lap, please....'
'Lapped cars will pass, but only those ones'
Just sounds terrible.
Team principals shouldn't have ready access to the RD to whine and moan, anyway.
As Merc found out with their rear wing. Regs are regs and if you breach them. And their decision not to pit Lewis and to have been influenced by those regs. Hmm - not clear cut at all
They won’t want to be remembered as the one team who won a championship in a court room, let alone to be the one who tried to do so and failed.
I agree with this. How seeking an official explanation of what happened and a clarification of the rules might be appropriate though, plus an apology if Michael Messy recognises that he didn't make the best decision
Race result will be annulled on Merc appeal as the FIA race rules have been breached by the Race Director.
Get ready for a 5 lap Super-Sprint re-run race back to the order of the VSC to decide the title... Seems like par for the course for Liberty Media WWF1...!
Well I am glad Merc are protesting the result
+1 there's no point having a rule book if it's not applied. Hopefully this will at least trigger a proper review of the sporting regs to remove ambiguity.