[Closed] Exercise related "Over-training"... please share your knowledge and experiences.

cheers for the vid DG, if they're TRX straps then there was a set of them hanging up next to the olympic rings so i can give that exercise a go tomorrow morning before spinning 🙂

Dirty - jack-knife would be with straight legs.. no?
Add dumbells to you press-ups to T 🙂

Why don't people just add beetroot to salads??

Tricky - just do some stuff for fun then! Exercise instead of train. What time is the Bath crit? Is C.Combe on tomorrow?

That's what my body-dysmorphia allows me to think I look like. Actually I think I'm a bit leaner.

i actually eat a lot of beetroot anyway. Might try some before this race tonight. It's at 7.10 tonight.

Castle combe is tomorrow yes. Think i need to get back into he chain gang rides... but i do have this fear that these have got faster and faster each week and my pace would have dropped off. Then again. got to get back on the horse

Hmm, a jack knife should be straight legs yes, but the youbtube video says its press up to jack knife so i used that name but its not with straight legs. Its the same as in the video ^^. I do add dumbells from time to time when doing them, ouchie! My shoulders/arms have changed shape since i started doing more press ups/pull ups/body weight exercises and ditched the weights...i've lost a lot of weight from that area.

Tricky, i can go faster/harder for longer when i take it. I think its used differently by the body at race pace compared to just a training session. Do something different or fun then for motivation. And def get back into the chaingangs as it doesn't feel like training. The pace of our chaingangs has noticeably gone up each week! The Tuesday night run i do is like a race pace chaingang but thankfully they re-group at the top of the hill as i can't climb at the speed they do! 😯

always take beetroot 4-5 days before a race (i juice about 200-500ml beets with some lemon squeezed in) It is seriously disgusting but it works.

I thought the research suggested 1-3 hours before a race as it works on elevated nitrate levels in the blood which dissipate fairly quickly.
Could be wrong though.

I found it simple to merely eat 400 less calories a day that was needed to stabilise my weight, and walk 6.5miles morning and evening @12mins a mile, 6 days a week. I was losing 3.5lbs a week and got down to where I was happy, energy levels were through the roof and I only needed to sleep 7hrs a day.

After two months of this (I had excess weight to lose, I wasn't going to do this forever!) I started suffering tingling in my toes and fingers after I came in the door after exercising, slight pressure in my upper left arm and some breathing issues. I stopped exercising and the issue went away immediately. The doc I saw said I was overdoing it, as ECG readings said I had a strong heart. That's over-training to me. Cycling doesn't really get me fit as I seem to really need to overdo exercise to benefit.

Sorry, I meant i start taking it 4-5 days before a race and daily from then til the race. There's varies studies about it and the amount needed per day. Some i've read suggest that if you want to take larger doses then take 3 days before a race. I can't drink that much of it, so i have less over a longer time period.

I just did the TRX workout I posted., with some added cable stuff and assorted core work.. crikey, I feel over-trained.

those TRX things look good, jsut checked out that video....

it looks simple, but i know i'll struggle to do any of it!

😯

That Vid....

😯

Phil, get someone to show you how the TRX straps work; the straps are adjustable so for the press ups vid i posted, adjust the straps to just below knee height. Really focus on your form/what your back and abs are doing as most blokes i see using it are all over the place. The most i can do of them is 10 before i feel it in my lower back and have to stop.

For things like pull ups/lunges/jumping squats, i have them on the shortest setting. Its also worth noting that for floor based exercises, the further away you are from where the strap is attached to the wall/ceiling, the easier it is. For standing ones like pull ups, the closer to where the strap is attached is harder.

This thread is hilarious

I think I missed the funny part. Are you maybe pouring scorn on people talking about exercise?

What's funny SkyWalker?

I'd say it's ridiculous more than anything...

[img] [/img]

I had no idea tumbleweeds were so large.

Still resting up...

Kick your shoes off and smoke a cigar Darcy.

Crikey !.

Its how I'd imagine what waiting for a bus must be like.

Think that today I may subscribe to the DD exercise regime.

EDIT:

Cough !, except for the Cigar bit.
😯

Haven't read all of this so this may have been covered...

A few years ago I was finding I was exercising regularly but my fitness was getting worse and worse, plus I would get a cold after every ride. I went to the Docs and was brushed off with a "there's a bit of it going around"

Looking back now I was seriously over doing it - I would rarely rest up and would always be on the go - riding or something for a few hours at least every day. My idea of exercising was full on all the time rather than training in my HR zones. I look back now at my HR logs and see that I was constantly up at my MaxHR everytime I went out with no real aerobic training / time. In fact my idea of resting was to go trail building which would be 4-5 hours digging or clearing.

Then I'd get home and with two young kids and a stressful job it wasn't like I'd put my feet up - but I'd say MTFU to myself!

Everything finally came crashing down when I caught a virus and rode for two days over a weekend - I spent the next 18months with PVF/CFS/ME whatever you want to call it and gave me the biggest learning experience of my life.

Looking back, I wish I'd spent more time training to build that base aerobic fitness, spent more time recovering and listened to my body rather than pushing on through it.

Kick your shoes off and smoke a cigar Darcy.

Oooh, it's sunny outside, I could just pour a beer and light up a café creme bleu right now.

Here have a piece of nicotine gum. It makes your fillings hurt.

I'm more of a sucky sucky lozenge man myself. Oh, and pop some of those protein shots in the post will you. Thanks.

I have to administer them personally. As a wise man once said to me... he couldn't test my BF% via the post.

Ssshhhh...

Modz be moddin'

I know it sucks. But we abide by the rules of this place and I think that on balance they do a great job.

Back on topic...

Bushwacked - I think that you highlight a key point (IMO) MTFU is sometimes knowing when to not train. Or to take it easy. Not just pushing yourself through sessions that you've planned.

The difficult balance is knowing when you're knackered and when you're wimping out.

[i]Ssshhhh...

Modz be moddin'
[/i]

[img] [/img]

whats been modded, what have i missed?

there's an ant in my office.

[i]there's an ant in my office. [/i]

Think yourself lucky its not a Rabbit.

whats been modded, what have i missed?

We can't discuss modding decisions in open forum. Yeti and I have had the emails.

i'm going for a ride tonight, think of me x

Bushwacked,

My experiences are very similar to yours. Despite regularly exercise and a "healthy" diet my fitness just kept going down hill for many years with "flu" like symptoms after even moderate exercise. I also suffered really badly with post exercise blues.

I would ride/exercise to my max on every session. And always pay the price. But never learnt.

However, the Docs just kept saying that I had probably had a virus and that nothing was wrong. So like you (and I expect most Type A personality types) I just kept pushing on and manning up.

Was just about hanging in there until work ramped up and a new baby arrived. Then one day I totally crashed and was diagnosed with ME.

Whilst I was clearly "overtraining" (given that I had an underlying illness that I wasnt aware of), the level of exerise I was doing was nowhere near what I knew I was capable of. So kept thinking that I was just being lazy. So went out and bought a SS to make things harder for myself!!

With hindsight I should have listened to my body, backed off, put my feet up and taken it easy.

Two years on and fully recovered I still find it very easy to "overtrain" and not listen to my body (I guess thats just my personality type and my military background), but these days I dont get the flu type symptoms/blues, just really tired/heavy/fatigued legs.

think of me

I do, lots of the time anyway Philly.

Nah.

😀

LOL - I just checked my e-mail attached to STW... Solo I can't beleive you reported me 🙁

[i]Solo I can't beleive you reported me[/i]

When ?.

For implying you use emoticons a lot.

Maybe it was someone else. 😀

[i]For implying you use emoticons a lot.

Maybe it was someone else.
[/i]

Ah, that, then.
Back in the late unpleasantness.

Much as I may hate to admit it.
Nope, don't blame anyone else.

No hard feelings... I just need to watch my P's & Q's or I shall be spending a long time in the box.

I was half tempted to report you at one point but couldn't be bothered to write the complaint!

TwoUndred. 😀

[i]No hard feelings... I just need to watch my P's n Q's or I shall be spending a long time in the box.

I was half tempted to report you at one point but couldn't be bothered to write the complaint!
[/i]

What can I say.
It all got a bit silly.
I will take this opportunity to take back some of my less than flattering remarks.
You, Phil and wider community have my apology.

FWIW.
I have only ever made two reports in all my years here.
Its not like its a habit.

So back in the make believe exercise thread...

Is Darcy still resting?
Did Dirty do her time trial?
Has skywalker died in a fit of laughter?
Where are Phil's sexy pictures?

I actually got bored of resting and went and did some intervalz yesterday afternoon. 😐

Careful now... if it wasn't in the schedule you're in danger of over-training.

After getting the WunUndred and TwoUndred on the thread, I felt I needed to capitalise on my awesomeness.

Darcy - I noticed that next week it will be the wunhundruff mid-week mini movies.

This pleases me in ways that even Philly can't.

Last night I washed the outside of the car, wheels too....

Now its flippin rained this morning !.

EDIT:
[i]Where are Phil's sexy pictures?[/i]

I think he's getting them developed at the same shop as MolGrips.
So they could be a while, coming back.

Nope, i did some unstructured jumps instead. It was freezing and i got an ice cream headache from descending in the cold. I'm struggling with knee pain since my bike fit and getting quite stressed out over it 😥

Solo, so its your fault its raining and i got soaked on my commute then? 👿

[i]Solo, so its your fault its raining and i got soaked on my commute then?[/i]

Sorry DG.

When they explained [i]Rain Dance[/i] to me.
I thouhgt I actually had to do a dance (mind bleach time).
I did't think washing the motor would work also.
Still, its an Audi, so perhaps this is par for the course.

DG.

Actually, your betroot thing.
How does that go exactly ?.

You are buying raw beets and just blitzing them.
Or do they need cooking up first ?.

Well your bike fit was wrong then! Adjust it back to what was right for you!

I went out and did your training ride for you Dirty. 3 miles in 7m 12secs... now if I can keep that up for an hour I've got the 25 mph challenge in the bag.
Followed it up with some HIIT sprints to complete 35k in total.

The womens target time was 10 mins btw.

Went out for an active recovery spin this morning but got a bit excited.

[i]i got an ice cream headache from descending in the cold[/i]

That reminds me of last winter (is it over yet ?).

I was riding into very cold wind and rain.
It made my forehead hurt so much I almost got off the bike to throw a tantrum in the middle of the road.
I never knew I could feel pain like that.
Even breaking my wrist didn't hurt that much.

[i]active recovery spin[/i]

Can you learn me what that is, please.
Obviously I see the word [i]recovery[/i] there ^^.
But how would doing more exercise actually assist recovery ?.
Genuine Q

This is a quick overview what I have stolen...

"Research indicates that after hard workouts, very easy workouts accelerate recovery more than complete rest. Easy aerobic training stimulates circulation which speeds up healing of tissues that have been damaged by hard training. For this purpose, it is absolutely critical to maintain an intensity that is enough to increase blood circulation and to trigger a growth hormone release, but not intense enough to increase the damage from which the athlete must recover."

Solo, i'm buying beets and juicing them at home and adding in lemon juice too. I've tried adding in other things, celery, ginger, carrots, apples etc but it just makes the juice much longer and i struggle to drink it all. So now its just a mug of beet with lemon, down in a oner with something to take away the taste afterwards!

TSY i'm going back to get the bike fit sorted, maybe on saturday pm but i'm racing on sunday...i find the whole fit thing stressful/tiring and not sure its best prep for racing. But then with knee pain, i'm not in much shape to race properly either... I can only see as far ahead on my training plan as Sunday so not sure if/when i have another 3mile TT to do. How did you find it, and did you keep to the right HR zone or did you just go flat out?

Active recovery, lol TSY you stole that from me! :p I have one session per week of active recovery (in zone 1 which for me is 121-152). What did you think of the rest of the zone info?

Ta

🙂

It wasn't a lot of fun. Could've carried on for a fair bit longer but when Garmin said 5k was up I was releived.

Don't exactly know what my HR zones are so I went on feel. I could've pushed harder than what I did. Avg'd 174 I think for that interval.

I didn't steal active recovery from you... I did plagerise from your training plan for Solo's benefit though. I'm still undecided on the rest of it. It's very interesting but I'm possibly thinking that getting overly worried about what zone you're in, what zone you should be in etc, takes away some of the enjoyment.

Why do you find it stressful? Just chill and enjoy it... I loved seeing me riding on a screen, chatting about the science and stuff. As for your beetroot drink... I had a good bottle of recovery red win last night! This morning I had black pudding and bacon. The wine is the same colour as beetroot and my breakfast began with 'B' so all good IMO.

What's this new challenge? 3 mile TT? I might have a go at that, maybe down Maindy track.

Don't they so some crit racing at the maindy track?

Not a challenge as such Mol... it's part of Dirty's training plan and also a fitness test in one of Chris Carmichaels training plans..

Essentially though, yep, a 3 mile TT with HR at approx 85% of max.

How are you getting on with your training for doing a sub 30min 20k at Blenheim?

Mol, its on my training plan; A 20min warm up raising hr to 10beats below lowest zone 5a number. Then ride 1.5miles out and back keepig hr 9-11 bpm below lowest zone 5a number.

TSY, Get your hr zones set!! It wouldn't be that hard an effort in that zone and you should def be able to go harder/faster.

It does take away the enjoyment 100%...being coached isn't that enjoyable compared to my own self coaching. That's why i asked for club runs to be included otherwise i'd be riding on my own 6 days a week looking at my hrm all the time for intervals/cadence/hr zones etc. But the plan won't work if i ignore what zone i should be in! The club runs are a chance to work on skills, ignore the hrm and have some fun.

I'm just not that interested in the bike fit science as i don't believe in the one rule for everyone for all aspects of the fit; my cleats were set up to my measurements/flexibility but my inaccurate way of setting them up was better than science as i didn't have knee pain before and now i do! Plus the last one took nearly 5 hours instead of 2 so its mentally tiring too. Maybe i should have a bottle of red wine before the fit?!

It does take away the enjoyment 100%

What's the ****ing point then? Seriously? Why bother? If it's not fun I'd rather be in the pub! What does Mustard think of your training plan?

Maybe I should have a bottle of red wine

Don't take this the wrong way but I do think you should take some time out to relax and get some perspective... the sense I get is that all the coaching, bike fitting, desire to succeed is getting you down?

Then ride 1.5miles out and back keepig hr 9-11 bpm below lowest zone 5a number.

Oh, so it's not a test then.. not going flat out? Just one of those doesn't sound too hard... I used to do 4x10 mins at z5 which for me was about 95%.

Yeti - forgot to say, I'm not going to Blenhim now. Very annoyed about it, but we are required to be in the USA at that time.

the sense I get is that all the coaching, bike fitting, desire to succeed is getting you down?

Well that can be an issue sometimes, but think of it like say, decorating or something. It's fine to hate decorating, but you do it because you want the results, so overall it's worth it. I totally understand.

Do it as fast as you can then Mol... give us something to aim for 😀

Regarding the decorating analogy... depends how much it's impacting on you... I'd never want to lose sleep over wall papering.

The TRX straps i saw yesterday weren't there this morning, apparently they belong to one of the personal trainers... i only ever see him at the gym on wednesday mornings so i'm going to try and remember to ask him if i can use them next week when i see him... that or i'll fill in a suggestions form as they've got a new manager and now would be the time to suggest things 🙂

You can do pretty much all the exercises in that video with standard gym equipment if you can't use TRX straps Philly.

I don't think anyone slaves away training when they don't really want to.

Some people might Mol... I was thinking more about the impact on the non-training hours?

Sure, if you exercise with the aim of improving there will be times when you're not particularly enjoying the activity... it'll hurt, be tiring, frustrating to learn a new technique etc. But it shouldn't be really stressing you out... unless it's how you earn your money.

IMO etc.

Some people need pressure and stress. I'd expect most people to know if they want it or not 🙂

'Need' stress?

I suppose it depends how you deal with it.

I work better with some stress, gives me some focus. But that's for my professional work. Exercise is a means of dealing with stress for me, not causing it.

If you have a stressful job, and then exercise is also making you stressed are you not pushing one of the big 'over-training' buttons?

Wow, I can't believe I've brought this back OT!

It depends if it's too much or not.

I have been stressed out about missing training sessions before. But that's because I want to get better, and if I don't then I get annoyed.

[i]You can do pretty much all the exercises in that video with standard gym equipment if you can't use TRX straps Philly. [/i]

I didn't even know what TRX straps were until I watched the video of the Shouty, muscle boy.
I have to hand it to him though.
He had large stomach muscles.

Theres a super lean muscle man at my gym (not me 😉 )
His abs appear to protrude further infront of him than his pectoral muscle.
He wears tight clothes too 😯
He is very, very lean.
But also bald.

The other week.
He was lying on his back, on a bench, hands holding near his head.
He was then lifting his entire body upwards, legs stretched straight out.
Moving through about 110 degrees.

I can't even imagine how strong you'd have to be to pull that off.
He speaks a bit on the loud side too.

Does having lots of muscle make you shoutier ?.

What really stressed at missing a training session?

Like not being able to sleep/eat stress? Feeling properly anxious stress?

Or just a bit annoyed with yourself that you wimped out?

Sounds like a bit of an attention whore Solo... that makes you shoutier 😀

Well obviously not the former. Ideally no stress should be that bad, goes without saying.

What's your point again? Is DG losing sleep?

[i]I work better with some stress, gives me some focus. But that's for my professional work. Exercise is a means of dealing with stress for me, not causing it.[/i]

Good point.
While you, DG, Molgrips, etc, are exercising.
How are you occupying your mind ?.
Cos sometimes I get really, really bored.

TV helps.
I don't have an opeational TV at home.
So the only time I see TV is at the gym when on the bike.
I can't here what Sid James is saying, but it does at least distract me for a few mins.
Try as I might though.
I can not stand the Cricket.
I'll never understand the attraction of watching Cricket.

If you have a stressful job, and then exercise is also making you stressed are you not pushing one of the big 'over-training' buttons?

Exercise is stress of a certain type, is it not? You're pushing your systems beyond their comfort zone and putting them under stress. I agree - it's about whether or not you find that enjoyable in some way I think determines what you get out of it.

For example I occasionally do a boot-camp and aside from the exercise side it completely does my head in. There will be 5 or 6 people of various levels of fitness but the level of commitment varies to the point you wonder why some people bother. It's clear that some completely loathe the gym / pool / boot-camp but feel they've got to go to lose weight / get fitter etc - in my somewhat limited experience, those who struggle to find the desire to push the last rep, get off their backside for the last burpee etc are those who find the whole thing 'stressful' in the usual sense of the word (and hence seem to get injured more frequently for example).

I have a stressful job - plenty of pressure, working hours can be a handful etc. I also exercise rather a lot - it maybe painful but I find the release enjoyable. My wife thinks I'm insane; I get up at 4am and run 7 miles to the station to get on a train so I'm at my desk for 6:30am but I wouldn't say it stresses me out; pushes myself physically yes but that's a different thing. If I loathed running or being shouted at by my PT then I don't think I could stick the commute or bother paying ££ for training twice a week...

(I had started to type out my exercise schedule - you'd have thought I'd be a prime candidate for 'over-training' but it started to look ridiculous so I'm not going to bother)

Does having lots of muscle make you shoutier ?.

I would imagine consuming steroids and testosterone possibly might?

How are you occupying your mind ?

What do monks think about when they are meditating?

Theres a super lean muscle man at my gym (not me )
His abs appear to protrude further infront of him than his pectoral muscle.
He wears tight clothes too
He is very, very lean.
But also bald.

The other week.
He was lying on his back, on a bench, hands holding near his head.
He was then lifting his entire body upwards, leg stretched straight out.
Movign through about 110 degrees.

You don't exercise in London, City Wall do you? That sounds very much like the bod who does our boot-camp and does my personal training. Not very shouty outside telling you to do stuff though so maybe it's not him...