[Closed] Exercise related "Over-training"... please share your knowledge and experiences.

Phil.

Intriuged by the order of exercise.

I do my cardio stuff, Bike, first.
Then move weights.
I note you are doing the reverse.

Is there any significance ?.

When I get to exercise, Fasted.
I'm thinking that the bike will see the body have to run on the glycogen, which may have a knock-on effect on any stored BF ?.

I was advised not to exercise the same muscle group on consecutive days.
So, one day might be chest and shoulders.
another might be back and biceps, or whatever.

EDIT:
[i]so you probably do more in one gym session that i do in 3[/i] 😳

In mitigation, until very recently I have been without a bike.
But I now have the TCR and I have just completed a new build.
So I should be getting more road miles from now on.

I try to use the bike for all trips possible.
When the weather improves I'll be bringing the bike to work and when I go shopping, I want to leave the car at home and take the pushy as I use to when I lived in Norwich.

I'm in meetings all day so I'll be brief..

Solo 1 3/4 hours is longer than I do in the gym for a normal session.

I was going to go for a swim in the lake this morning but the frost on my windscreen put me right off the idea so did an hour in the pool instead.

solo, not sure why philly does his in that order but years ago i used to do weights and then spinning or a run. I wanted to get the most out of my weights session so i did it first when i was fresh. Now i'm trying to fit in more of my training plan, i'd still do it that way round.

I over-train my mushroom tip regularly.

Nice to see Solo staying true to form and still talking crap.

Solo - I read some stuff on the effects of cardio and resistance training on certain hormones that accelerate and inhibit the benefits of the two.... I've forgotten it so I'll have to dig it out.

I think you're better off doing it the way Phil does unless you can allow for a significant rest period between the two.

Dirty the Tempo TT is part of the Chris Carmichael training program... for Advanced level as a guy the 3 miles needs to be done in under 8 mins.

[i]Solo - I read some stuff on the effects of cardio and resistance training on certain hormones that accelerate and inhibit the benefits of the two.... I've forgotten it so I'll have to dig it out.

I think you're better off doing it the way Phil does unless you can allow for a significant rest period between the two.
[/i]

Yes, I am interested.
Anything you can provide will be read, ta.
🙂

the weights before spinning is purely down to timings, gym opens at 06:30, spinning runs from 6:45 to 7:35-40ish, i need to be on the road on the way to work essentially before we've finished stretching after spinning so the only way i can fit in any weights is before hand, no theory or science behind it, just timing really 🙂

i exercise exactly the same muscles 5 mornings in a row, but its only 1 set of reps on the spinning mornings. i focus on protein a LOT in my diet and sleep is important, if anything the 2 day rest over the weekend makes the weights more challenging come monday morning. i'm not looking to bulk up with resistance training, its all about strengthening my back and shoulders, promoting a healthy metabolism to counteract a relatively sedentary day job and improving my core strength. for example i've never once done a bicep curl and dont do any weights to focus on my arms, only deltiods and the various back muscles.

i understand the theory behind rest days, but the way i look at it is if my job involved lifting some stuff every day i'd adapt pretty quickly, and thats what happened with the gym.

i forgot to mention, the 30 mins stretching is started with some core exercises whislt i'm in the corner on the mats like a loner 🙂

It was in a magazine... I'll try and find something online.

Re the fasting stuff... I just don't think it's for me. Suppose I could try a 16 hour fast... then eat nothing but lean protein for a day and see what happens...

Phil - you should shake up that routine!

for Advanced level as a guy the 3 miles needs to be done in under 8 mins.

Actually i've just looked at my zones and my hr only needs to be around 174...that's less than a race or the recent TT I did so maybe not that nasty after all. BTW i have some good info on hr zones i can send you if you like? Its broken down into my 7 zones (what they are) plus what happens to your body/fuel burnt etc during each zone.

[i][b]i'm not looking to bulk up [/b]with resistance training, its all about strengthening my back and shoulders, promoting a healthy metabolism to counteract a relatively sedentary day job and improving my core strength[/i]

Me too.
When I first went to the gym, I was surprized how little weight I could move.
So the weights are as you say, to kick the metabolism up the backside, as I too am a desk jockey.
People talk about [i]toning up[/i] and while that may not be techincally correct, I think you know what I mean.
🙂

phil, i've seen huge improvements using the TRX and also press ups into a T position. If you don't have TRX at your gym, do you have olympic rings - TSY tried some of the stuff my PT set me using olympic rings instead of the TRX and IIRC it worked just as well.

Yep send it over Dirty...

IIRC it was a min and half / 2 mins down for a girl.

Essentail was picking a flat 3 miles, relatively free from traffic. You need to know the wind direction / temperature any other conditions that may impact and try and recreate the TT under the same conditions in 4 or so weeks time.

perfect timing, walked over to the mats to do my core/stretching routine this morning and walked straight into a set of olympic rings that had appeared from nowhere 🙂 i'd need to ask the gym guys to show me how to use them properly though!

agreed yeti, i do need to shake up the routine... i'm considering ways of doing so, but at that time in the morning i'm very much on autopilot and only really remind myself i need to shake it up when i'm not at the gym.

Solo, i've been in and out of gyms for the past X years with varying results, when i've tried to bulk up i've ended up taking it too far, when i've then taken a break and started at a new gym i always go in 'too big, too quickly' and shock myself at how much strength i've lost.

this time i've found the level of weights that i want to stick to (gotta make sure i still fit in my wedding suit!) so any shaking up has to mean i can maintain a size, not increase it

and also press ups into a T position

Into a side plank??

eugh, i should re-add the plank into my morning core work shouldn't i....

i dont want to be one of the guys who wanders around with a checklist, but it sounds like i might need to go that way.

with regards to upper body strength i think i'm where i want to be, goal would be to maintain it. core however can always be improved.

[i]Solo, i've been in and out of gyms for the past X years with varying results, when i've tried to bulk up i've ended up taking it too far[/i]
I haven't been to a gym for 20 yrs 😳
But when I got as far as I thought the iDiet could get me.
I then felt a desire to try some gym stuff.
A friend of mine was working on my office at the time.
He was a real gym rat.
So I just tagged along with him.
The rest is history.

[i]so any shaking up has to mean i can maintain a size, not increase it [/i]

Yes.
I can now move greater weights, but I do not think that any of the muscles are signifcantly larger.
It would seem that they have just got better at moving weights ?.
I have plateaued on the weights I select.

Fortunately, there are a few very large fellows in the gym.
I look at them as a warning how not to turn out, physically that is.

I also agree with your opinion that had I been born in a different era, I might have had a more physically demanding job.
To which I would have had to adjust.

This thread is making me tired with all he talk of training.

I'm still proper demotivated. Haven't done any intervals, tough rides, training, racing for over a month now.

Always wondered how much fitness you lose after no activity?

(Saying that I'm doing a bath crit tonight which I'm told is 30 minutes full bore racing with lots of sprints to stay on)

I need to get motivated again 🙁

[i]I need to get motivated again[/i]

I've been reading a lot of cycling books recently.
Its defo made me want to get out on the road bike.

Into a side plank??

Plank is great for core. Once you have mastered the olympic rings phil, put your feet in them and do press ups into a jack knife. My core has never been better as a result of these! Having issues linking sorry 😳

anyone tried this beetroot larky?

[url= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22526247 ]Influence of acute dietary nitrate supplementation on 50 mile time trial performance in well-trained cyclists [/url]

[url= http://www.andjrnl.org/article/S2212-2672%2811%2901948-4/abstract ]Whole Beetroot Consumption Acutely Improves Running Performance[/url]

Yes.
I can now move greater weights, but I do not think that any of the muscles are signifcantly larger.
It would seem that they have just got better at moving weights ?.
I have plateaued on the weights I select.

my muscles have got bigger, the way i look at it is that if i'm at my limit on what i'm willing to lift then if it gets to the point where it doesnt feel like a challenge to do 3 sets of 12 reps, i need to do more reps, not add more weight.

although at present it still feels like a struggle getting through the second half of my 3rd set so i'm not rushing to add more just yet!!

I think my core is really good, partly form having to carry my kids about.

anyone tried this beetroot larky?

DG> in what way do they work?

cheers for the vid DG, if they're TRX straps then there was a set of them hanging up next to the olympic rings so i can give that exercise a go tomorrow morning before spinning 🙂

Dirty - jack-knife would be with straight legs.. no?
Add dumbells to you press-ups to T 🙂

Why don't people just add beetroot to salads??

Tricky - just do some stuff for fun then! Exercise instead of train. What time is the Bath crit? Is C.Combe on tomorrow?

That's what my body-dysmorphia allows me to think I look like. Actually I think I'm a bit leaner.

i actually eat a lot of beetroot anyway. Might try some before this race tonight. It's at 7.10 tonight.

Castle combe is tomorrow yes. Think i need to get back into he chain gang rides... but i do have this fear that these have got faster and faster each week and my pace would have dropped off. Then again. got to get back on the horse

Hmm, a jack knife should be straight legs yes, but the youbtube video says its press up to jack knife so i used that name but its not with straight legs. Its the same as in the video ^^. I do add dumbells from time to time when doing them, ouchie! My shoulders/arms have changed shape since i started doing more press ups/pull ups/body weight exercises and ditched the weights...i've lost a lot of weight from that area.

Tricky, i can go faster/harder for longer when i take it. I think its used differently by the body at race pace compared to just a training session. Do something different or fun then for motivation. And def get back into the chaingangs as it doesn't feel like training. The pace of our chaingangs has noticeably gone up each week! The Tuesday night run i do is like a race pace chaingang but thankfully they re-group at the top of the hill as i can't climb at the speed they do! 😯

always take beetroot 4-5 days before a race (i juice about 200-500ml beets with some lemon squeezed in) It is seriously disgusting but it works.

I thought the research suggested 1-3 hours before a race as it works on elevated nitrate levels in the blood which dissipate fairly quickly.
Could be wrong though.

I found it simple to merely eat 400 less calories a day that was needed to stabilise my weight, and walk 6.5miles morning and evening @12mins a mile, 6 days a week. I was losing 3.5lbs a week and got down to where I was happy, energy levels were through the roof and I only needed to sleep 7hrs a day.

After two months of this (I had excess weight to lose, I wasn't going to do this forever!) I started suffering tingling in my toes and fingers after I came in the door after exercising, slight pressure in my upper left arm and some breathing issues. I stopped exercising and the issue went away immediately. The doc I saw said I was overdoing it, as ECG readings said I had a strong heart. That's over-training to me. Cycling doesn't really get me fit as I seem to really need to overdo exercise to benefit.

Sorry, I meant i start taking it 4-5 days before a race and daily from then til the race. There's varies studies about it and the amount needed per day. Some i've read suggest that if you want to take larger doses then take 3 days before a race. I can't drink that much of it, so i have less over a longer time period.

I just did the TRX workout I posted., with some added cable stuff and assorted core work.. crikey, I feel over-trained.

those TRX things look good, jsut checked out that video....

it looks simple, but i know i'll struggle to do any of it!

😯

That Vid....

😯

Phil, get someone to show you how the TRX straps work; the straps are adjustable so for the press ups vid i posted, adjust the straps to just below knee height. Really focus on your form/what your back and abs are doing as most blokes i see using it are all over the place. The most i can do of them is 10 before i feel it in my lower back and have to stop.

For things like pull ups/lunges/jumping squats, i have them on the shortest setting. Its also worth noting that for floor based exercises, the further away you are from where the strap is attached to the wall/ceiling, the easier it is. For standing ones like pull ups, the closer to where the strap is attached is harder.

This thread is hilarious

I think I missed the funny part. Are you maybe pouring scorn on people talking about exercise?

What's funny SkyWalker?

I'd say it's ridiculous more than anything...

[img] [/img]

I had no idea tumbleweeds were so large.

Still resting up...

Kick your shoes off and smoke a cigar Darcy.

Crikey !.

Its how I'd imagine what waiting for a bus must be like.

Think that today I may subscribe to the DD exercise regime.

EDIT:

Cough !, except for the Cigar bit.
😯

Haven't read all of this so this may have been covered...

A few years ago I was finding I was exercising regularly but my fitness was getting worse and worse, plus I would get a cold after every ride. I went to the Docs and was brushed off with a "there's a bit of it going around"

Looking back now I was seriously over doing it - I would rarely rest up and would always be on the go - riding or something for a few hours at least every day. My idea of exercising was full on all the time rather than training in my HR zones. I look back now at my HR logs and see that I was constantly up at my MaxHR everytime I went out with no real aerobic training / time. In fact my idea of resting was to go trail building which would be 4-5 hours digging or clearing.

Then I'd get home and with two young kids and a stressful job it wasn't like I'd put my feet up - but I'd say MTFU to myself!

Everything finally came crashing down when I caught a virus and rode for two days over a weekend - I spent the next 18months with PVF/CFS/ME whatever you want to call it and gave me the biggest learning experience of my life.

Looking back, I wish I'd spent more time training to build that base aerobic fitness, spent more time recovering and listened to my body rather than pushing on through it.

Kick your shoes off and smoke a cigar Darcy.

Oooh, it's sunny outside, I could just pour a beer and light up a café creme bleu right now.