The tricky thing IF we leave is the EU and those still in will want to show you are better off in than out, and as such have an interest in seeing the UK do badly.
Not an ideal position to negotiate from.
[I]elliott all those basic human righrs we will retain in a replacement uk bill. The ECHR has repeatedly stalled extraditions and is increasingly being used as a legal catch-all to frustrate the UK legal process. IMO its another thing, like benefit restrictions or movement restrictions, the EU couod have reformed quite easily at limited cost to them and which probably would have kept the UK in. However they took the position that they would not offer it [/I]
Ok, tell me I'm thick - but please show me where the ECHR has anything to do with the EU. I do keep asking and still seen no evidence that this isn't the same 'crowd' who we helped set up after the war.
I really do not see a scenario in 5 years time where we are worse off and certainly relative to Europe. We can start a new thread at the approproate time about the eurozone debt crises.
Well as you cannot interpret basic things like article 50, nor have the ability to admit your simple and obvious error, then forgive me if I fail to be reassured by your optimism which is almost certainly built on your inability to process facts appropriately nor reach reasonable conclusions ,as highlighted by the point Mike just made 🙄
So we'll have a lower GDP and have to pay in the same amount
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zms98
The tricky thing IF we leave is the EU and those still in will want to show you are better off in than out, and as such have an interest in seeing the UK do badly.Not an ideal position to negotiate from.
True but this means leave can blame the EU for all this as if it was ever realistic we could leave, stop paying and still get free access to their market.
It was a pipe dream that could never ever happen
The RWI will make sure we still blame the EU for at least a decade or so for the consequences of their decisions and their inability to deliver on promises that they have immediately back pedalled on
they sold a lie they wont be accepting this
Anti Brexit March planned for 9 July.
Seems like a life time away.
Things could be very different by the end of this week, let alone 2 weeks.
Just had the Italian girl that works for me in my office in tears. Very uncertain about her future. Also concerned for her sister who works here in scientific research on projects that are EU funded. A lot of uncertainty over the funding and longer term prospects for her contract. She's also extremely upset about the anti-foreigner agenda in the media. Very sad to see.
She's also extremely upset about the anti-foreigner agenda in the media. Very sad to see.
Perhaps we could organise "Slap a racist day" It's times like these where the country needs statesmen/women to stand up and calmly inform the nation of the state of play, and the rules by which we all should be playing.
Though I would settle for Farage being forced to read a pre written statement penned by some of us in here.
Perhaps we could organise "Slap a racist day"
That would make an interesting petition... Of course I couldn't condone violence.
Of course I couldn't condone violence.
It's fine a slap isn't violent, it's just how you train your woman. It's like calling somebody a ______ it's not racist it's just a bit of banter mate. Back to the good old days when bar maids had massive jugs out, birds were up for it and the football was a proper scrap. Exactly the sort of stuff we will get back to when we get rid of those damm euro leftie human rights
elliott all those basic human righrs we will retain in a replacement uk bill.
Good to have your assurance. I didn't realise you had such influence.
Ok, tell me I'm thick - but please show me where the ECHR has anything to do with the EU
Yes, I thought it was a separate entity.
Also concerned for her sister who works here in scientific research on projects that are EU funded. A lot of uncertainty over the funding and longer term prospects for her contract.
People are worried in the scientific community, theres already a strong movement to lobby the government, to ensure science is included in the negotiations or seek a guarantee that the government will match what we loose.
most people finding it very hard to be optimistic
http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/promisetracker/
Won't go in as an image but this would be fun to get set up for the out lot
Perhaps we could organise "Slap a racist day"
This is great, but how do we slap an internet forum user?
Looks like another recession is coming to the U.K.
Markets dropping, hiring frozen and growth expected to be in the minus figures.
Normally I'd say ride the wave but I'm actually considering leaving the country and let people who voted out deal with the mess.
Then come back when it's all good in 30 years.
BoardinBob - Member
Just had the Italian girl that works for me in my office in tears. Very uncertain about her future. Also concerned for her sister who works here in scientific research on projects that are EU funded. A lot of uncertainty over the funding and longer term prospects for her contract. She's also extremely upset about the anti-foreigner agenda in the media. Very sad to see.
POSTED 21 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Well now she knows how non whites feel. And always have 2 passports - you never know what could happen. Not even the Jews of WW2 Germany think it could happen.
elliott all those basic human righrs we will retain in a replacement uk bill. The ECHR has repeatedly stalled extraditions and is increasingly being used as a legal catch-all to frustrate the UK legal process. IMO its another thing, like benefit restrictions or movement restrictions, the EU couod have reformed quite easily at limited cost to them and which probably would have kept the UK in. However they took the position that they would not offer it
In your opinion you are miss-understanding what the ECHR actually means to all and every single human. Why should there need to be a reform when it has to work as a 'catch all'? For the best part it works exactly and completely uninhibited as it should, for the odd occasion where there needs to be intervention then there is. Not the other way round. What you are talking about is something completely different. There is utterly no need to remove or re-write something in place that needs to written as such to ensure the welfare of many, many people. Complaining about the Human rights conventions is the same as complaining about the police then phoning them when your house is burgled.
Again, where has the ECHR adversely and personally effect you or someone you know?
Ok, tell me I'm thick - but please show me where the ECHR has anything to do with the EU. I do keep asking and still seen no evidence that this isn't the same 'crowd' who we helped set up after the war.
Another 'let's' blame the EU. AFAIK the EU only has to 'accept' the ECHR. They we're created separately. The ECHR was drawn up in the aftermath of the war by the Council of Europe and later acknowledged by the EU. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It's a very vague speech, full of promises to do something and ensure stability, but no actual detail.
The stuff about BoE having amounts in reserve to promote liquidity and having swap lines in place seems pretty specific.
Mind you, these are just about averting the immediate economic Armageddon we have voted for - I think a lot of people forget that the financial system is capable of being broken by a cataclysmic event like a nuclear accident - or a population losing its mind.
In the longer term he's basically saying "thank the stars we did try to repair the economy, at least we have some foothold from which to try to avert this new disaster".
Don't get me wrong - this is a truly epic cock-up by the electorate - it is going to be incredibly damaging. It really needn't have happened - yet every man Jack of us except a few fortunate or clever opportunists is going to suffer for it.
But at least there are some politicians who 'get it' and are prepared to do the sums and take the decisions rather than just whip up the worst elements of national psyche with no plan in place.
Also, I like the underlying message - "some of us thought you lot might cock this up, so we took steps to save you from yourselves at least in the short term".
This is great, but how do we slap an internet forum user?
Move to France?
Junky I rely on the various articles I've read on Article 50 and this specific topic rather than anything posted by yourself
All this EU funded stuff ... we pay in more than we get back, its all our money. You may well question whether a future UK government will decide to continue programmes but it will be our elected representstives who decide and we'll have another GE before anybreal changes take place.
Its starting to dawn on the other EU countries they are going to have to make up the budget shortfall.
As for economic impacts this is a long term game, you must factor in the impending eurozone implosion
The stuff about BoE having amounts in reserve to promote liquidity and having swap lines in place seems pretty specific.
Yes, those are the easy bits to ensure liquidity and financial stability. We knew that from Carney.
But still dont see what else he really could add, since we have no clarity on how things are going to play out.
I am not a great fan of GO but would give him 9/10 for this morning. Anyway we are probably saying much the same thing... 😉
Jambas - my understanding of A50 is pretty dodgy. Any good links from your reading to help me understand?
All this EU funded stuff ... we pay in more than we get back, its all our money
Do we have any consensus yet regarding the NETT amount we actually contribute?
Similarly, figures on EU NETT migration as opposed to non-EU migration and refugees?
I rely on the various articles I've read on Article 50 and this specific topic rather than anything posted by yourself
All I did was post up article 50 in its entirety to demonstrate that it made absolutely no mention of deals with other states for anyone leaving. Whatever you are relying on it is not supported by Article 50 and anyone with a modicum of understanding can see that your point was totally, unquestionably, false. Even you could do this and really it was only a test of your honesty/integrity rather than your intelligence/
Once more you did not surprise,
YOUArticle 50 prevents younsigning a trade deal with a non-EU country
ARTICLE 50- the actual facts
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
You have to be trawling when you do this sort of thing as no one could struggle to interpret that to the degree you are struggling. No one there is literally nothing about trade deals mentioned its beyond fatuous and into fantasy
I take it from the violent backtracking of BoJo that he bet heavily on Brexit actually not being voted for, but as he campaigned for them he could be a unifier in the Cons party with the line of "well lads, I wanted out but democracy ruled and the remain have it" thus winning over both sides of the party. Rock up to No 10 with keys in hand. Job done.
Similarly, figures on EU NETT migration as opposed to non-EU migration and refugees?
Well, [url= http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics ]according to Migration Watch UK[/url] the 2015 figures are:
[img] 
[/img]
The site lets you filter those results on different criteria if you are interested.
.@rich a weaker curremcy is good for exporters, its swings and roundabouts. Switzerland has been working hard to stop its currency appreciating
And because the Swiss do it, it must be good right?
Not if you're a net importer like the UK, though. Fail.
You know that strong bargaining position we're apparently in? Seems our opponents aren't too worried....
They are playing hard ball???
Hang on, dont they need us more than we need them? Merkel in particular has all the car companies on her back.....
Well it looks like racist hate crime is back in vogue again.
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-issues-rallying-cry-to-londoners-after-brexit-vote-triggers-surge-in-hate-crime-a3281456.html ]cheers brexiteers[/url]
You literally are taking us all back to the early 70's, you ****ing bunch of Morons!
Wonder how the older OUTers feel now about the returns on their pensions Ro5ey - not that I expect that they thought that far.
Yep ... and if they were bemoaning getting nothing from savings accounts previously, the higher inflation from the weak pound (heard a 10cent fall increases inflation by 1% ?? ) their real return will defo be negative.
Are their ANY immediate or short term winners in this ?
International Lawyers for one.
All this EU funded stuff ... we pay in more than we get back, its all our money. You may well question whether a future UK government will decide to continue programmes but it will be our elected representstives who decide and we'll have another GE before anybreal changes take place.
And all that just got wiped out before we even started by screwing around and freaking the world! Then giving the banks a nudge (hint where does the money to pay the EU come from), then by dropping the £ and then by basically saying (well not saying as Borris hasn't #WrittenItOnABus yet) we will take what we had minus a couple of key things and pay you nothing - OK Guys I know it was our round but I left my wallet at home...
Seriously it's like being out with your most unreliable mate, what was the comparison? The one who says lets leave this bar I know this awesome place and both ending up in the Kebab shop wondering how you got there
Well, according to Migration Watch UK the 2015 figures are:
Yes I had been there, I wondered if they were disputed at all.
It's certainly clear there has been a steady increase in both EU and non-EU net migration to Britain. It's not clear to me how much reduction there would be through leaving Europe as opposed to tackling that particular issue on its own, if indeed it needs tackling.
@jamba I have been waiting for the pending Eurozone implosion for 5 years luckily was not holding my breath.
I won't be able to post exact content, but just wanted to add an anonymised anecdote of what Brexit actually means in the public service I run:
I'm just off the phone to the major European organisation responsible for our equivalent line of work - let's just say that it's our mutual purpose do something very worthy and that this works best when humans and not borders are the consideration. We have agreements in place to share opportunities across borders, to help each other out in pursuit of this goal.
They are very worried about future cooperation and looking for reassurances, which I can't give.
They have also raised questions about what now happens to the various initiatives, where UK teams lead in the field and have the lion's share of EU funding.
All I could do was say that we are still members of the EU and that, for the time being, all stays the same. That's very much not how they were seeing it from other European countries' media coverage.
We are now going to have to spend time making sure agreements are reached to ensure that we still get access to things like cross-EU software for making our good stuff happen.
There is no dividend of "taking back control"; we already control the bits we need to - this is about international cooperation, which is helped by having an EU and not helped by being outside it.
This will now cost time and money to sort out, which our UK public service simply does not have.
😥
I'm expecting to see a major rowing back from- maybe by using an incredibly protracted delay, 2 or more years?- on any Article 50 exit, based on McKenzie's little snippet today:
What's happened is this:
the expected succession didn't happen: Rupe fell out with Cameron way back, was aligning BoJo for the role, but the critical part- Cameron staying in and absorbing all flak for a failed Article 50 exit- didn't come to pass.
Confusion for Rupe, who called and said: delay until we get a plan that keeps Boris smelling rosy. Kelvin's just setting up leave-voters for the new reality: we're not leaving as no-one in Cons will take the job...
My prediction: we'll see a major backing away from the 'leave' decision in all Murdoch media over the next few days (this began already on Sky News over the weekend), and a watering down of the leave message in other right-leaning UK tabloids.
They need to do this as the average leaver will be concerned about democracy not being acted on, so readers need setting up for a 'limited exit'- no full Article 50- but a joyful proclamation that we've done well out of new negotiations.
In the background, Rupe will be working out who's next after BoJo- it may even come to pass that his attention will shift to favouring the Labour Party if he can get a better deal from them.
Anti Brexit March planned for 9 July.
By then everyone will be arguing about Chilcot. It is quite ironic that the Remainers can't deal with democracy
@jamba I have been waiting for the pending Eurozone implosion for 5 years luckily was not holding my breath.
@wiki you must have been watching the desperate can kicking thats been going on for the last 5 years at Greece's expense. Its all about delaying the inevitable, certainly until after the 2017 elections in France and Germany
@Ben how can anyone give assurances about the future ? You can only make a promise and hope you can keep it. Given how sick Europe is there is no guaranty any given EU funding would continue
Come on. We're £350 million a week better off.This will now cost time and money to sort out, which our UK public service simply does not have
@jamba I have been waiting for the pending Eurozone implosion for 5 years luckily was not holding my breath.
That Ambrose Evans-Pritchard character in the Telegraph has been predicting the Euro would implode since about 2008, and it still hasn't happened.
Come on. We're £350 million a week better off.
That's earmarked for Hospitals. Didn't you read the bus?
Come on. We're £350 million a week better off.
Check the credit card statement - rates just went up
By then everyone will be arguing about Chilcot. It is quite ironic that the Remainers can't deal with democracy
and Bojo/Gove etc. otherwise we would be having some really positive lets get shit done talk but instead we are firmly moving towards reverse??
I assume at this point you realise that you and the rest of the cannon fodder have just been shoved out into the field just before your own side has a change of mind?
in fact the leaders seem more and more like
[img] 
[/img]
every day
That's earmarked for Hospitals. Didn't you read the bus?
I think you will find that Boris/IDS/Gove/Farage/Vote Leave is fairly certain you mis-read that.
Funny thing is Jamba, one of the reasons I questioned the timing was ....
Come July 9th, that march may well be turned on it's head ... as it becomes increasingly evident that A50 will never be invoked.
Would you march if that was the case ?
Not sure I'd fancy being in the middle of a angry group of Brexiters ??
Yes, but the NHS is going to have less immigrants to treat now, so they could probably spare a bit.That's earmarked for Hospitals. Didn't you read the bus?
Check the credit card statement - rates just went up
Actually gilt rate is at historic low
Do we have any consensus yet regarding the NETT amount we actually contribute?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216
It is quite ironic that the Remainers can't deal with democracy
The Leavers haven't got democracy either.
No-one has.
It's a massive balls up.
The Leavers haven't got democracy either.No-one has.
It's a massive balls up.
This ^ Close thread
It is quite ironic that the Remainers can't deal with democracy
You think it would have been a different story of the result had gone the other way? You think Leave and UKIP would have said [i]"Ooh close one, but well played. We'll disband immediately and throw our full weight into a united EU"[/i].
Because I don't:
[img] 
[/img]
Not that I think that means we should have a second referendum. We all knew the rules when we started and it would fly in the face of democracy.
Besides we've farted now and everyone in the room can smell it - it's too late to try to unfart.
I think you will find that Boris/IDS/Gove/Farage/Vote Leave is fairly certain you mis-read that.
Much like Ed milliband's Stone of Pledges is now probably 6 tonnes of loose chippings, I wonder where the bus is now. And has anyone noticed how much sales of Nitromors are up since the referendum?
Besides we've farted now and everyone in the room can smell it - it's too late to try to unfart.
Wins the internet today
Some kind of protracted stand-off is now very likely.
Brussels can pressure as much as they like, but there is no option for anyone other than the leaving country to invoke Article 50.
The UK parliament has no constitutional obligation to take any notice of referendum.
Could this potentially just end up a bit like an official declaration of war where the actual fighting has been over for decades, it is just that the paperwork hasn't been updated - I think there are some oddities still like that around in the world(?)
Or like Belgium not having an elected government for 589 days? After a while, it just became the norm and 99.999999% of the machine just kept going.
Dave has thoroughly shafted Johnson - chuckle.
Boris's options:
Don't run for Tory leadership - finished.
Run for Tory leadership, don't get it - finished (although it will take a bit longer).
Run for Tory leadership, get it and become PM, then don't invoke A50 - finished.
Run for Tory leadership, get it and become PM, then invoke A50 - finished.
That's what you get for being a prat.
Check the credit card statement - rates just went up
Down actually
Would you march if that was the case ?
Definitely, someone has to push the wheelchairs and help the elderly eh ?
Unsurprisingly, 2nd referendum is a no go.
Don't worry Leave have got this, they just want to go on holibobs first:
"During the campaign there was talk about triggering Article 50 and its process of leaving the EU right away, literally on Friday morning, and I think quite rightly the PM has paused on that which allows the dust to settle, allows people to go away on holiday, have some informal discussions about it, and then think about it come September/October time.
He said Vote Leave had "done lots of detailed planning" for Brexit and suggested Michael Gove was "probably the man to lead the negotiations" - but dismissed the idea of any formal role for Ukip leader Nigel Farage."
Much like Ed milliband's Stone of Pledges is now probably 6 tonnes of loose chippings, I wonder where the bus is now.
On its way back to the Neoplan dealer in Stuttgart probably.
Would Jamba march, Ro5ey?
Is he in the country on the 9th? 😉
Cameron was the one who said Article 50 should be trigegred immediately,mhe did it as a FU threat. Farage said so too as he was suspicius of a fudge. Then of course Cameron's done a runner. Article 50 trigger will be Nov/Dec 2016 at the earliest, maybe the middle of next year but thats quite controversial as during the French / German elections or more likely we wait to see who the new leaders are. Very food chance they will be more eurosceptic than Hollande/Merkel - we have negotiating upside by waiting IMO.
My 2 cents is on a EU move to remove the British rebate as the next headlines. That and a lot of sound byte sabre ratting at the conference
Is he in the country on the 9th?
Touche ! Worth a trip back, bit like last week 😉
He said Vote Leave had "done lots of detailed planning" for Brexit and suggested Michael Gove was "probably the man to lead the negotiations" - but dismissed the idea of any formal role for Ukip leader Nigel Farage."
Chuckle.
Just as Mike thought he might have got away with it, Cameron keeps the pressure on. Also puts Farage back in his place - he's not even an MP after all.
Trading briefly suspended in RBS and Barclays shares due to the tanking they're taking 😕
jambalaya - Member
Check the credit card statement - rates just went up
Down actually
May well be as there has only been a few hours of trading/business since the cock up
We got downgraded by one rating lot on Friday, when the other 2 follow what will happen to out bond rates for any new borrowing?
Sales of whiskey and revolvers rumoured to be on the increase in the areas surrounding high-profile Tory Leavers who now realise the impossible situation they are in?
Felt the direct effect of the Brexit vote this morning. Client cancelled a project due to economic uncertainty. That's me £3,000 worse off. Hope this isn't the first of many.
My 2 cents is on a EU move to remove the British rebate as the next headlines.
Some would like that, but I'm not sure Merkel is one.
David Cameron "ruling out" a second referendum seems a bit, umm, irrelevant.
He's just some backbench MP now. No-one cares what he thinks anymore.
oldnpastit - Member
David Cameron "ruling out" a second referendum seems a bit, umm, irrelevant.
seems like hes really, sticking the boot in to borris imho
I wonder where the bus is now.
It was used as Will Young's tour bus at Glastonbury.
seems like hes really, sticking the boot in to borris imho
Good, because if ever there was someone who deserves a good public kicking (metaphorical) it is Johnson. Gove in a very close second. Farage? Wouldn't waste the energy.
Do we have any consensus yet regarding the NETT amount we actually contribute?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216
Yep that's about what I saw. £140 a head then. How much is it going to cost to buy into all those new trade deals WITHOUT accepting immigration?
It is quite ironic that the Remainers can't deal with democracy
Oh I think you'll find we're OK with democracy. It's the lies we find unacceptable.
Oh I think you'll find we're OK with democracy. It's the lies we find unacceptable.
Quite a few people saying about "oh, accept democracy".
This is nowhere even close to being democratic.
Asking a woolly question of an uneducated (and politically disenfranchised) group of people with no clear terms (ie is it legally binding, does there have to be a 2/3rds majority, is it simply an opinion poll?) which then gets hijacked by the right-wing tabloids with a mixture of fear, scaremongering, lies, spin and deceit reaches a level of interest probably completely unplanned for and then having absolutely zero plan for either outcome is hardly democratic.
I'd go with "spectacularly ****ing incompetent"
Moneycorps have temporarily ceased trading foreign currency online, due to the financial uncertainty.
We have a new neighbour. He's a lovely fella just turned 77. He was telling me he voted out as he thinks it was the only chance he had (and might have as he's not in great health) to stick the boot into a ruling class he despises. He also thinks the EU wastes loads of money and makes rules for no one but themselves. He's not that bothered about what happens next.
And you know what, even as hand wringing liberal with a big x in remain, I find it hard to argue with that. Wrong question, wrong answer but when your standing MP is a ) a total smug git and b) has no chance of ever being ousted and someone gives you the chance to 'hoof the govt in the slats', you might decide to take it.
I don't agree with his rationale or his lack of concern over consequences, but I can't argue with why hie chose to vote out. It's tragically ironic that the reasons we got here is because CMD needed to shore up his own party against UKIP so offered a referendum to woo those voters.
My reflection on the whole sorry saga is a) there were lies on both sides and reasonable arguments on both sides. We only heard the first and b) a referendum is far too blunt an instrument to choose between them.
If you wanted to devise some kind of experiment to perfectly demonstrate how modern politics isn't functioning properly, then you'd be pretty hard pressed to come up with anything that could possibly trump this sorry shambles
seems like hes really, sticking the boot in to borris imho
He needs to stick the boot into himself too for taking such a ridiculous risk.
He also thinks the EU wastes loads of money and makes rules for no one but themselves.
By "themselves" I assume he means us here in the UK, as we're part of the EU?
Or does he really mean those pesky foreigners, with their weird accents?
To be fair to the fella, it was more that the rules benefitted 'everyone else' not the UK. I did gently ask for evidence of that, but it was a case of 'everyone knows that'. On the pesky foreigners front, as a builder of many years, he thinks the Polish and other eastern europeans who worked for him were far better than 'the lazy local lot'.
I appreciate this is a sample size of 1, but it was 100% having a once in a lifetime opportunity to hurt those in govt. It was vindictive rather than logical and well reasoned (IMO), but I get why he did it.
I had the misfortune to listen to a phone-in show when I was driving from Edinburgh to Aberdeen this morning. Best quote of the day was from some old lady who's main reason for voting out was because "she didn't want to become part of a German empire". There were also other older folks who were saying that the didn't really understand the issues but voted leave to get the boot into (mostly now-dead) politicians from the EU vote 40 years ago. None of them seemed to have any real idea on what they were voting for and how it might impact them financially.
To be fair to the fella, it was more that the rules benefitted 'everyone else' not the UK. I did gently ask for evidence of that, but it was a case of 'everyone knows that
Yip.
Clean beaches
Reduced emissions
Reduction/abolition of mobile roaming charges
etc
All for Johnny Foreigner. No benefit to us at all. The Daily Mail headlines almost write themselves
How about another round of voting?
[url= https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/ ]Any prime minister will need parliamentary approval to trigger article 50 of the Lisbon treaty and initiate the UK’s exit from the European Union [/url]
If it comes to this I can't see MPs voting with the whip if they don't want to but how would it go down with constituents' if they went against the result of the referendum?
It was vindictive rather than logical and well reasoned (IMO), but I get why he did it.
Doesn't make it right, though.
I'm not sure I like the idea of people voting out of hate/spite.....
@BiB - yeah I know. It's like me telling my dad he's wrong about something. I REALLY do not want to stereotype any demographic group here but - again in my sample size of 1- he was more certain of everything than I am of anything! Fourth estate has a case to answer here....