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It’s widely acknowledged as the most toxic and problematic social network.
A lot depends on who you choose to follow and what "discussions" you care to get involved in. It can be informative and amusing.
Perhaps that means I saw the worst of it, but nothing I saw made me want to go there in my spare time.
I only see tweets/discussions from the 100 or so folk I follow in my timeline, there is no need to view anything you don’t want to see.
The user makes a choice between allowing the algorithm to decide what you see, much like stopping everyone in the street and asking them for an opinion and personally choosing what you see from those you exclusively follow.
I only see tweets/discussions from the 100 or so folk I follow in my timeline, there is no need to view anything you don’t want to see.
Same. I even follow a few political accounts but I never look past more than 2 or 3 replies. And I almost never tweet.
thepodge
Free Member
Lots of people saying on twitter that Jared Kushner is lining up to take over. I’m not awake enough to work out how true that might be.
I think a lot of people joining the dots about who Musk watched the football with last night, as a guest of the Saudis (who allegedly stumped up a lot of the cash for him to buy twitter)..
https://twitter.com/ericswalwell/status/1604541953005477888
All that money and still getting told what to do.
Playing him like a cheap fiddle at a strippers bar.
So who do think was sucking up to who out of trump jnr or Elon
don't like the result change the rules!
I think a lot of people joining the dots about who Musk watched the football with last night, as a guest of the Saudis (who allegedly stumped up a lot of the cash for him to buy twitter)..
The presence of at least one pro-Putin Russian reporters there too leaves a very sour taste in the mouth...
don’t like the result change the rules!
Is what he's always assumed he can do... Thing is, he's underestimated the twitterspehere's distaste to being told that the rules have been changed by a guy who's been playing with their precious toy for less time than they have, whilst using it primarily as a means to short-sell his competitors and shill whichever cryptocurrency happened to be his flavour of the month, before it tanked (conveniently after he'd got out!)...
So who do think was sucking up to who out of trump jnr or Elon
Like a cat with a slice of buttered toast strapped to its back, one suspects they were hung there in suspended animation, in a perpetual 69 of mutual aggrandisement...
A lot depends on who you choose to follow and what “discussions” you care to get involved in
Agree, I just follow people I like and read what they post. I don't open up the comments and that is where the real shit is with all sorts of ****ers posting all sorts of crap. Maybe I am missing the point of social media by not reading the 'social', ordinary people comments but that is how I like it.
But the discourse in the comments drives the algorithm to prioritise posts that create that discourse into your feed, so even if you think you are avoiding it by not reading the bottom half of the internet, it still impacts what you see.
Agree, I just follow people I like and read what they post. I don’t open up the comments and that is where the real shit is with all sorts of **** posting all sorts of crap. Maybe I am missing the point of social media by not reading the ‘social’, ordinary people comments but that is how I like it.
There's a huge continuum between echo chamber at one end and 'the bottom half of the internet' at the other, which is where you/we should send at least some of our time though. If you get too far to either end I think discussion and understanding gets worse as a result.
But the discourse in the comments drives the algorithm to prioritise posts that create that discourse into your feed, so even if you think you are avoiding it by not reading the bottom half of the internet, it still impacts what you see.
If you sort your feed chronology then there is no algorithm derived prioritising.
Facebook is a different matter.
What is Adam Hills doing with a hair colour???
That deserved more love.
It’s widely acknowledged as the most toxic and problematic social network. We’d be better off without it IMO.
Widely acknowledged by whom, exactly? I don't recall, as a random example, Twitter ever being implicated in distributing an app which surreptitiously passed user data en masse to a third party in order to manipulate national election results.
Most social media is Garbage In, Garbage Out. Would you argue that print media is toxic after reading the Daily Express? If people are posting things you don't like, stop reading them. There will always be Unfollow / Unfriend / Ignore / Block buttons for a given account. For a little while I followed a film-maker I liked, turned out that his entire output was about smoking a fat one and shagging his wife; I hit Unfollow.
Follow-up comments to original posts have always been a cesspit, from Twitter to Facebook to YouTube to IFLScience to The Daily Mail to the My Little Pony fan club* so just don't scroll down. You see this occasionally on STW even, you could start a thread about say a TV show and there will always be someone wading in to go "I don't watch it, it's shit." Well... why are you even here reading this thread and taking time to post about it then? 🤷♂️ It's not a fault of the medium, it's that people are weird.
(* - never piss off a Bronie.)
Like a cat with a slice of buttered toast strapped to its back, one suspects they were hung there in suspended animation, in a perpetual 69 of mutual aggrandisement
👏👏
Amazing how many people think Musk himself is actully responsible for building the cars and rockets.
Well, he’s the public face of a car company that apparently makes all its profits selling CO2 credits to SUV manufacturers, and is apparently trying to bring back 1970s Detroit (or possibly Longbridge?) build quality.
I just don't get it, if I was that rich I'd be having a 10-way everyday, not acting like a 13 yo looking for attention from basement dwelling oddballs.
I know he’s incredibly rich, and can fill the sky with space junk visible to the human eye from Earth… but can we just ignore this utter waste of human flesh now? Just not mention him? I’m undecided about what to do with the twonks that defend him and buy his more earth bound junk… politely nodding and siding away from them might still be the safest approach, but I’d rather find ways to nudge them away from him, if possible.
I'm assuming the "epic thread" comment was referring to the absurdity of the thread. It's genuinely hard to tell with Musk sometimes though, and he must know how it might be interpreted.
I’d be having a 10-way everyday
Your lack of ambition disturbs me!
I’m assuming the “epic thread” comment was referring to the absurdity of the thread. It’s genuinely hard to tell with Musk sometimes though, and he must know how it might be interpreted.
Nah, he’s merely an utter **** of the highest standing and the sooner his world burns down the better.
The Forth Reich? Is that what we can expect when the expansionists in Fife get into power?
We watched Knives Out, The Glass Onion last night. There's a not too subtle dig at Mr Musk right at the end.
Is that what we can expect when the expansionists in Fife get into power?
Nobody expects the Fife Expansionists
TGO could have been a good film if they hadn't tried so hard on the social media billionaire angle.
As much of a ****womble that he is, this is still pretty impressive. I wonder who the previous record holders were.
https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1609195983501676544
Breaks world record for the largest loss of fortune
..And his plan to get all the cool right-wing kids to like him when he bought Twittter still didn't work. What a prat
I wonder who the previous record holders were
Masayoshi Son was the last. Bloke behind Softbank. Made one good investment into a Chinese company and then went around the world boosting the tech bubble to try and repeat.
I am sure his supporters are thinking "this is a really cunning 15d chess move. Just wait until the counter attack emerges".
It's just share price, reality is Tesla are pretty solid in terms of outlook, same with his SpaceX and other ventures, they'll go back up soon enough and it'll be another article on how amazing a turnaround it was.
Not so sure. People have been buying new Teslas over other electric vehicles because they were depreciating slower than their competitors… important when not buying outright. There was an “investment” mentality at play. Once/if deprecation increases to be the same as others (looks likely), at a time when competitors are offering better build quality, safety and all the other “normal” premium car characteristics, Tesla’s lead in their sector could disappear very fast.
Telsa just became the top luxury carmaker in the US I think. But it can't last, when so many other major companies are working on replicating the thing that made them unique but doing it better. I'm sure Telsa will persist but they will simply become another carmaker.
Tesla’s lead in their sector could disappear very fast.
TBH depends what Tesla sector, don't forget they have the Megabank side, cars aren't the only money spinner.
People have been buying new Teslas over other electric vehicles because they were depreciating slower than their competitors…
I follow a couple of auction sites- one in the USA and Teslas come up on it fairly regularly, they never (maybe once or twice) get anywhere near their asking price. Always questions about build quality and software updates.
But it can’t last, when so many other major companies are working on replicating the thing that made them unique but doing it better. I’m sure Telsa will persist but they will simply become another carmaker.
Yep, the first big dominant player in a new market rarely survives as anything other than 'another player', if at all. The competition learns from their mistakes, catches up, and overtakes.
Tesla still have one big advantage over other manufactureres, the Supercharger network. And the competition isn't learning.
I'm hardly an expert, but it seems obvious that Tesla will be caught and overtaken by the automotive giants in the long term, no?
It's not a market that tends to produce near-monopolies like the internet (Google, Amazon, eBay etc.), so being dominant now doesn't buttress you against future challengers.
I am sure his supporters are thinking
Don't be so sure.
Tesla still have one big advantage over other manufactureres, the Supercharger network.
True. But that's going to be an issue forced by governments soon, it's essential to the switch over from combustion engines. The future isn't brand specific infrastructure, it's charging points that everyone can use, everywhere.
We're about 10 years into viable electric cars being available to the public and Tesla is still the only manufacturer whose car you can be sure to charge without hassle on a trip across a continent. When is soon? It's currently an expensive shambles charging a car with multiple apps and unreliable charge points. It needs more than governments, it needs the EU to sort out the mess. I haven't seen anything tabled. They're financing unworkable inefficient projects but not infrastructure that works today for todays cars.
It's known what's needed:
https://www.acea.auto/publication/european-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-masterplan/
It's just not happening.
When is soon?
France (that's where you are, yeah?) are looking at 7 million public charging points by 2025. On the road networks to/from other countries that's being pushed/subsidised by the EU. I'd be very surprised if they meet that target, but it gives an idea of what will be happening this decade, and government led (but yes, EU role key for your crossing Europe requirement, and arguably far too much inertia there like elsewhere).
It’s just share price, reality is Tesla are pretty solid in terms of outlook, same with his SpaceX and other ventures, they’ll go back up soon enough and it’ll be another article on how amazing a turnaround it was.
Yea, but his companies are tiny compared to their inflated share prices. The companies themselves might survive but I'm less convinced of that as time goes on.
Tesla still have one big advantage over other manufactureres, the Supercharger network. And the competition isn’t learning.
Fun fact, the number of public chargers in the UK went up 8% in a single quarter last year, that's not cherry picking, that's just the last number that's available.
Another fun fact, can you guess why the adresss for our local supercharger station is "Mill Lane", gives a clue as to why you'd probably not want to build there.
True. But that’s going to be an issue forced by governments soon, it’s essential to the switch over from combustion engines. The future isn’t brand specific infrastructure, it’s charging points that everyone can use, everywhere.
I think the bigger issue as per usual is governments will invest in literally anything other than viable public or active transit solutions.
Tesla still have one big advantage over other manufactureres, the Supercharger network. And the competition isn’t learning.
They've opened some sites to to other brands.
Its definitely a no brainer when your using wholly superchargers and the fact you just plug in and go is very nice.
It’s just share price, reality is Tesla are pretty solid in terms of outlook, same with his SpaceX and other ventures, they’ll go back up soon enough and it’ll be another article on how amazing a turnaround it was.
The share price reflects investors estimate of future profits. Tesla was vastly overpriced based on current and past earnings, the huge valuation was a bet that it would gain dominant market share in the future. The huge drop is an indication that investors aren't confident about the future of the company. The CEO has a history of erratic behaviour and he made a catastrophically bad investment in Twitter. The existing large car companies have much more experience in mass-production and quality control so it's risky to assume that Tesla will become the dominant manufacturer. It may still be a major manufacturer, but the peak share price was based on investors belief that it would be the dominant one. Personally, I wouldn't invest in any of Musk's businesses, he's just too flaky to trust with money.
The share price reflects investors estimate of future profits. Tesla was vastly overpriced based on current and past earnings, the huge valuation was a bet that it would gain dominant market share in the future.
It's definitely also an 'asset' in it's own right, people bought Tesla stocks because they were going up, not because they'd made any analysis of the company. It might not take much to reverse that sentiment.
Tesla is a strong business but it's still vastly over-valued and we're seeing that slowly correct itself (although there's a long way to go). They were the leaders for EV innovation for a long time and in some respects still are but as that gap closed they should have addressed their weaknesses in customer service and build quality etc. but they chose not to - I think that will come back to haunt them at some point.
The Tesla network isn't entirely without hassle as the queues at Christmas demonstrated. But yes it is much better.
Tesla still have one big advantage over other manufactureres, the Supercharger network. And the competition isn’t learning.
If you know that's Tesla's advantage, you can be absolutely sure that VW &co do as well. The big issue for them is what to do about it and when. Tesla rolled into the market with presumably a lot of investment capital which allowed them to grow their network alongside their user base and consolidate that as a brand advantage. Other manufacturers didn't have a large market share at first so it made it difficult to justify spending money from their own cash flow to create a huge charging network.
And the other thing that you need to bear in mind is that the cars are flying off the shelves faster than the traditional makers can make them. So at this stage, they don't need to invest in a proprietary network. Even Tesla have realised that a proprietary network makes them look bad. So if they were to invest, they would probably just put money up for the companies that are already doing it.
That said, I read the other day that Mercedes Benz are starting a branded charging network, presumably because they want a premium experience like Tesla.
EDIT oops sorry, forgot this wasn't the EV thread.
Whilst Tesla's most visible products are the cars - Tesla describes itself as a provider of sustainable energy systems and its worth remembering that, solar, batteries and distribution are also aspects of its business, but its primary focus is the cars as that's what's bringing in the most money...for now.
faster than the traditional makers can make them.
Faster than Tesla can make them too. Musk is failing to staff his Berlin factory and his attitude to employees is one of th emain reasons, people don't want to work for him.
Whilst Tesla’s most visible products are the cars – Tesla describes itself as a provider of sustainable energy systems and its worth remembering that
To parody Musk's transphobia, Tesla is welcome to identify however it likes, doesn't make it true.
To parody Musk’s transphobia, Tesla is welcome to identify however it likes, doesn’t make it true.
LOL
Tesla is only gong to get squeezed as EVs and the related infrastructre become more mainstream.
They may have some short and medium-term advantages, but I'd expect the silly share price to keep slipping as they gradually lose those advantages.
I always felt that Tesla was just a physical embodiment of the dot com boom. Hyped to the nth degree, possibly sensible stuff under the hoods but hugely over valued.
In 50 years, Tesla will be remembered like Hillman or Talbot.
argee
Full MemberIt’s just share price, reality is Tesla are pretty solid in terms of outlook,
If twitter can solve their QC and build quality and servicing and locking-in issues, without driving up prices, then at this point they do seem to be a sustainable and viable company. And most of that stuff doesn't actually have to be expensive, people assume that the horrible build quality is price cutting but quite a bit of it isn't cheap, it's just wrong. Some of it's expensively wrong- beautifully made panels that don't quite fit, things that cause rectification costs, doing it right first time is often cheaper than doing it badly twice. These are mostly stages that other car companies have gone through.
But, Tesla don't at the moment show much sign of wanting to do any of it, the messaging and the actions all suggest that they're happy with it. Which is also a stage that lots of car companies have gone through and a lot of those car companies don't exist any more, or had to be bought out to change their ways.
But the other thing is, their market valuations etc have always been pretty divorced from real world performance, as is often the case these days, tech companies that have never made a penny can be worth billions, tech companies that make a sustainable stable existence are treated like failures. Tesla are more exposed to that than most, and a big part of that is about the cult of Musk.
One of the things that has always struck me about Tesla is their cavalier attitude towards regulations and product testing. They seem to be driven by a culture inherited from software development, where stuff is released as a beta version for public testing, updated as a release candidate for more public testing, then repeatedly patched until a stable version is released a couple of years later. This is okay for software that doesn't have safety-critical functions, but a car that is driven by an average driver on public roads at night in terrible weather is a completely different matter.
For example:
Tesla Investigated over Phantom Braking—416,000 Cars Involved
Calling the Tesla driving assistance "Full Self Driving" is an extremely reckless thing to do, even if the fine print has weasel words to blame the human driver when things go wrong. Established car companies know that stunts like that will eventually get you hauled into court so they take regulations and safety very seriously and spend years testing new cars to try to fix problems before they are released to the public.
So, basically, Tesla have been taking shorcuts in product development, releasing poorly developed products that have quality control issues and Musk's fanbois have been making excuses for this, assuming that the car industry can be run like the software industry. I don't think that the Tesla culture of willful negligence will be sustainable and they will have to grow up and learn how to do quality control properly if they want to take on Toyota and the other big players.
I kind of admire musk with his space-x project, but he really needs to stay in his lane. (pun intended).
Leaving mostly EV infrastructure up to the private sector is totally doomed to failure.
If the government won't invest in critical services I can't see this being on their radar either.
I've had an EV for five years and charge at home. It seems the the time to charge out and about is way too slow for the amount of cars now kicking around.
For the first time owning an EV it's starting to currently feel like the Betamax of cars (and I say that as a paid up supporter of Betamax.)
This proprietary charging malarkey reminds me of the early roll-out of ATMs. "Excuse me mate, is there a cash machine round here?" - "Sure, which bank are you with?" It can't last. The Betamax analogy is a good one, some format eventually has to win and it's not necessarily going to be the best one.
Mind you, we've had a quarter of a century to standardise on phone chargers, so...
People are buying EVs faster than ever. Public charging will have to change, there's no option.
I was under the impression that Tesla was priced where they were because of the "Full Self-Driving" promise, which never materialised. While the implementation is impressive in the US it's nowhere near autonomous, and given there's been nothing new for six months seems to have hit a big stumbling block.
Tesla vehicles are extremely safe as a result of their AI and vision processing skills*, along with the fundamental design, but they've already been leap-frogged by most other manufacturers. Even a ten-year-old Volvo will deliver a smoother and more confident drive on the motorway using cruise control.
Their AI lead engineer didn't leave for no reason.
* My Model 3 computer can track lane markings on the motorway in appalling conditions, often better than I can do myself. But then it sees a lorry merging 3/4 of a mile away and craps itself.
TBH look at Nikola - never delivered a vehicle but was valued more than Ford Motor Company.
Demo of the truck driving was it rolling down a hill 🙂
At least Tesla have cars on peoples driveways.
While the implementation is impressive in the US it’s nowhere near autonomous, and given there’s been nothing new for six months seems to have hit a big stumbling block.
There were some technical critiques of the system a year or so back. As I recall, they are using light detecting sensors to try to detect obstacles instead of radar, but that requires so much computer processing power that it's not feasible with the technology that Tesla have.
The Betamax analogy is a good one, some format eventually has to win and it’s not necessarily going to be the best one.
I don't think so. Most cars use the same charging standards - even Tesla. The only reason you couldn't previously use Tesla chargers with other cars is that they didn't let you. The rollout to allow this was just software to unlock it. There are a few older cars with an older standard (but also notably one current car I think) but most charging stations have both anyway.
A better analogy would be early telecoms deregulation in the UK. Lots of companies all trying to offer the same thing, but they ended up all folding and selling their assets or being bought up. Or filling stations - all differently branded, and slightly differently priced but essentially the same.
Mind you, we’ve had a quarter of a century to standardise on phone chargers, so…
Hence why the EU got bored and told the phone manufacturers what the standard is going to be.
I think its the same for car chargers although not sure its been formalised into law yet vs a preferred standard which is very likely to be law.
As I recall, they are using light detecting sensors to try to detect obstacles instead of radar
They primarily use vision eg normal cameras.
I dont think they ever used Lidar (although may be bringing it in) and removed radar a while back.
The Betamax analogy is a good one, some format eventually has to win and it’s not necessarily going to be the best one.
'Best' is subjective. The problem with betamax was that Sony was both a device manufacturer and a rights holder and distributor of film and tv content. They wanted to lock the machine and the content you could buy to view on it together. Betamax owners could only buy or rent films that Sony distributed. VHS owners could rent or buy anything. It was better in the sense that It was a better engineered system, it was worse in the sense there were fewer films you could watch on it.
Consumers aren't daft enough to fall for that now - you know, buy a TV that only works if you keep paying for a sky subscription for instance. 🙂
I think "Betamax was best" was very much an urban myth. We had one... my Grandad gave it to us as he'd swapped over to VHS, because that was way better 😃
or buy a car with heated seats, but they only work if you keep paying? Nah, no-one would be that daft surely 😂Consumers aren’t daft enough to fall for that now – you know, buy a TV that only works if you keep paying for a sky subscription for instance.
zilog6128
Full Member
I think “Betamax was best” was very much an urban myth. We had one… my Grandad gave it to us as he’d swapped over to VHS, because that was way better
I was a tv/ video engineer back in the 80's and it was definitely true. That said, they were harder to repair in my experience but I think that was as much about Sony being Sony as the system itself. The same could be said about their Tv's back then.
maybe at the very outset, but then VHS improved massively (LP, superVHS etc) and overtook it surely? Not some weird conspiracy! Plus picture quality of industrial equipment may have been better, but certainly there was no difference on home equipment. Everything looked equally shit 😃I was a tv/ video engineer back in the 80’s and it was definitely true.
I'm guessing no new surprises from the man himself over the last couple of weeks has resulted in this thread going way off-topic and now discussing various standards? Varying standards is definitely a change as the man himself doesn't appear to have many standards...;-)
but its primary focus is the
carscarbon tax credits as that’s what’s bringing in the most money…for now.
That's his primary business, the cars are a by product like animal feed from a flour mill.
I think “Betamax was best” was very much an urban myth. We had one… my Grandad gave it to us as he’d swapped over to VHS, because that was way better
It was a better format - outlived VHS in professional applications by a long. Until a few years ago the master copy of my girlfriends films , shot and edited digitally, would go to the broadcaster on a Digi-beta tape
nobody is talking about professional (I'm sure it was/is superior for that!) use though when they repeat "beta was better", they're talking (erroneously) about home video, which was pants 😃It was a better format – outlived VHS in professional applications by a long.
or buy a car with heated seats, but they only work if you keep paying?
That's not exactly how it works. I don't think. You don't pay for heated seats when you buy it AND have to pay to keep them running, do you? As far as you know, the car doesn't have them if you don't pay for them.
nope, that [I]is[/I] exactly how it works, incredibly! Someone mentioned on another thread that it's cheaper for them to build cars to the same spec, and just lock features that aren't paid for, rather than build multiple variations of a vehicle. Which does make sense I guess, in a twisted way. I believe Merc do (or are planning to do) something similar, except this is relating to performance (artificially throttling acceleration, unless you pay extra).That’s not exactly how it works.
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/shop/ls/dp/Seat_Heating_SFA_gb
I’m guessing no new surprises from the man himself over the last couple of weeks
Oddly enough today several third party apps are failing on twitter. Its currently questionable whether its an outage or whether they have been blocked.
That’s not exactly how it works. I don’t think.
Currently its a case of heated seats etc are included in every build but if you dont pay up front then they dont get turned on.
There do seem to be attempts to switch though to either tying it to the account (so they have to be rebrought by any subsequent owners) or turn them into a pure subscription offering.
One trick which seems to being tried is including a 3 year subscription on the assumption good chance it will be sold on and hence the original purchaser wont be fussed and they might get double pay.
Oddly enough today several third party apps are failing on twitter. Its currently questionable whether its an outage or whether they have been blocked.
This is what I had been fearing. If it's not now, it's only a matter of time. All the original talk of advertisers boycotting twitter initially left me very confused as I didn't realise you got adverts in your timeline as I've never used their app or website. Not looking forward to moving from only seeing people I follow to an Instagram/Facebook style advert fest.