[Closed] Don't blame me, I voted Labour

Having moved here from South Africa about eight years ago...
I still haven't figured out the country, people & weather, nevermind the politics,

so what is the problem/what is your concern?

How short are our memories.

Not that short it would appear.

Why weren't the Tories given a majority ?

I have a lucky and well expensed life so according to the 'rules' I should be a Conservative.

Conservatives tend to take care of the rich at the expense of the poor

Labour tends to take care of the poor at the expense of the rich.

In my experience, the rich can take care of them selves which is why they are rich. The poor can't which is why they need someone to help them.

I would rather help people who need help than those who don't. Guess that is the socialist in me. That is the core reason I vote Labour even though I don't agree with many things they do. The fundamental reasoning behind their objectives are closer to mine than any other party.

Why weren't the Tories given a majority ?

Because not enough people voted for them.

Check out the big brain on Brad!

ernie - fair point. Even though lots of people were sick of Brown they couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory. What was it? Less than 35%

Don't blame you, you voted Labour?

😕

I'm failing to see the logic there...

Personally I'd say that in the 13 years in power, the Labour party has managed to stuff up pretty much everything. I'm not saying necessarily that any one party would have done significantly better (hindsight is always easy to use), but don't you think that after 13 years of the same old crap excuses, and the lack of will to make much reform, that ANY change is a positive thing?

I think a coalition govt. of the Lib Dem's and the Tories could be very worthwhile, IF (big IF too) they manage to sit down and work out how to work things out together... They will have to realise they have to actually work together, but if they do, it could prove very beneficial to the public, bringing the positive changes that both parties want, leaving behind the crap.

That's odd, my post went in the wrong thread. Hmm.

mboy - Have you seen the difference in the NHS? Public Transport?

Check out the political comedians 14 years ago and see what their jokes were about.

Now it seems to be - Gorden Brown, he has a strange smile doesn't he.

porter - Please don't use the T word on my thread!

I know you didn't actually use it but we got the reference

Labour tends to take care of the poor at the expense of the rich.

In my experience, the rich can take care of them selves which is why they are rich. The poor can't which is why they need someone to help them.

I would rather help people who need help than those who don't. Guess that is the socialist in me. That is the core reason I vote Labour even though I don't agree with many things they do.

WHOAH there fella

Labour ceased to be a socialist party 2 decades ago. Ever since Neil Kinnock ended his reign as leader of the party, Labour edged further and further into the middle ground. We now have a situation where the 3 parties are fighting over the same patch of middle ground, just arguing different things.

Besides, the outgoing Labour Govt. hasn't targetted the rich specifically. They've mugged EVERYONE! Rich or poor, Labour has made us all pay... And where's it gone? Well that's the bloody point... It hasn't gone anywhere of any use whatsoever! I could almost understand if it was all in some rich little bugger's pocket now (well, I suppose a lot of it is in the case of that bitch Cherie Blair who has robbed this country blind), but mainly it has been wasted on SHITE nobody wanted!

BRING ON THE PUBLIC SPENDING CUTS I say... And quickly! This country needs it...

mboy - Have you seen the difference in the NHS? Public Transport?

What? They were both a joke in 1996, and they're both STILL a Joke...

Big thumbs up there Labour, what a ****ing great job you did there sorting those 2 out! 😉

Sorry, you may detect a little sarcasm perhaps, but all I see is that we've had millions of promises, none of them fulfilled, with the taxpayer being the ultimate loser as we've paid billions of £'s that has all been wasted!

MBoy - Where has it gone?

Loads wasted but again NHS and public transport have both improved massively. Not sure how old you are but I use the NHS regularly (check my name) and can vouch for the improvements.

And where's it gone? Well that's the bloody point... It hasn't gone anywhere of any use whatsoever! ............. but mainly it has been wasted on SHITE nobody wanted!

Yep, you're right - I can't deny that ..................it's gone on "shite nobody wanted".

Or "The Bankers" as they are sometimes known.

Old enough to have seen a Tory Govt in power, but young enough to not really remember proper right/left wing politics... Hence my argument they're all fighting over the same middle ground these days. Only the BNP really sit particularly to one side of the centre these days!

I've used the NHS too, probably not as much as you, but my experience is that it leaves a huge amount to be desired still. OK, in my time I've been unfortunate to have what is widely regarded as the worst hospital in the UK as my local Hospital (the John Radcliffe in Oxford), but I don't see a massive change to the makeup of the whole system that is still needed. A fundamental redesign if you will. Building a couple of new hospitals is all well and good, but if you don't design out the faults in the system in the first place, you always plan to fail... Would the Tories have done any differently in the last 13 years? Who knows... But I know Labour haven't sorted it out, that's for sure!

And public transport... WHAT A JOKE! Only any good if you live in London still... Otherwise forget it, you may as well walk... Or ride a bike in fact! 😉

Oh, and your admission that loads has been wasted, yet you're still an adamant Labour supporter? HANG ON ONE MINUTE! That's your money they've wasted (as well as mine)... Do you not want to know where every ****ing penny has been wasted, and why it was wasted? I sure as hell do... And I want to know why the hell they let it go on for years and years and never really tried to stop the huge leaks in the system. A change is as good as a rest as they say, and I'm hoping that making massive public spending cuts is going to give this country the shock it needs to get off its arse and actually do something to fix the inherent problems it faces. Short term pain for long term gain if you will...

Mboy where do you live? local transport on merseyside has improved without doubt although Im not sure thats thanks to the government!?

My Mum has worked for the NHS for 30 years and tells me she has seen vast improvements in the last decade in our local sector? Just because its not right, doesnt mean it hasnt improoved...

Yep, you're right - I can't deny that ..................it's gone on "shite nobody wanted".

Or "The Bankers" as they are sometimes known.

PRECISELY

Why was that not stopped years ago? Cos it made the Labour govt. look good that's why... Until the bubble burst of course! But then his Tonyness always knew that would be the case, and he'd built it into his exit plan... Tony always had a 10 year plan to leave his legacy... Come in, make lots of changes, leave his mark, make the country look like it has made lots of (short term) financial gains, safely in the knowledge that by the time he left office the problems wouldn't have yet fully surfaced. So he could then **** off with all the taxpayers money he and his robbing bitch of a wife had stolen, happily for ever after, leaving poor Gordy the Gormless to pick up the pieces.

I feel sorry for Gordon Brown I really do, cos he's about the only half honest Labour MP of the last decade and a bit to be fair! He did let Tony Blair pull the wool over his eyes for more than a Decade though, and for that I could never forgive him...

Mboy where do you live? local transport on merseyside has improved without doubt although Im not sure thats thanks to the government!?

Fair play, good that it has improved where you are, but like you say, can you contribute that to the govt? Probably not.

Live in Worcestershire these days myself. Yes Worcester has a new Hospital, but then it probably would have done under any other govt. in power too, as it soooooooo badly needed a new one it was untrue! Seems that I'm not the only one round my way that wanted change either, cos if you look at the electoral map [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/ ]on this page[/url] you will see that where I live, and everywhere surrounding it, is a sea of blue! Obviously Labour did such a good job round this way for the last however long... Probably doesn't help that Jacqui Smith, the silly tart that started the whole expenses scandal, is from Worcestershire though... 😉

Someone's got issues...as The Saturdays would sing

Round Worcester and other middle England rural backwaters have pretty much always been a sea of blue. But don't worry, the Tories are going to sort out the constituencies so that'll never change either.

Someone's got issues...as The Saturdays would sing

Goodnight DD, you'll have to find someone else to bait tonight I think... 😉

Nighty night. Sleep tight. We're all shagged tomorrow mate. 🙂

Personally I'd say that in the 13 years in power, the Labour party has managed to stuff up pretty much everything.

You're young, aren't you?

Please explain what the Labour government, on their own, have stuffed up.

I concede the Gulf War was unforgivable. But you're not allowed to use the Global Recession. Britain's actually come out of that reasonably well considering. And didn't the RBS recently make loads of profit for the taxpayer?

The reality is, that your life is probably slightly better under Labour than it would have been under the Tories. People on average now have more disposable income, more consumer goods, are less likely to be victims of crime, enjoy better health care and education than they did under the Tories. Simple facts.

And that's in spite of New Labour betraying their traditional core voter base...

Oh has he gone to bed? Oh well.

Why was that not stopped years ago?

Absolutely mboy - I am in complete agreement with you. All this "light touch" stuff, the market always knows best, cut red tape, no government interference, etc, was complete bollox.

It really is staggering how anyone thought that sort of nonsense could ever work. And I really don't know how the Tories managed to convince so many that it would. Are people gullible or what eh ?

But you're not allowed to use the Global Recession. Britain's actually come out of that reasonably well considering.

I am still here Fred - We'll keep the red flag flying here!!!

Mrs WCA is also dead upset about this and as she is always right, anyone who disagrees must be wrong.

Talkemada

You're young, aren't you?

Please explain what the Labour government, on their own, have stuffed up.

...

The reality is, that your life is probably slightly better under Labour than it would have been under the Tories. People on average now have more disposable income, more consumer goods, are less likely to be victims of crime, enjoy better health care and education than they did under the Tories. Simple facts.

And that's in spite of New Labour betraying their traditional core voter base...

Gordon Brown/Labour have turned virtually an entire generation of educated young people into debt slaves or priced them out of owning their own home completely.

Easy to see why they they might be pissed off, although admittedly not for most of the 40-something middle class population of STW who bought their houses in the 90s. They were instead affected by the Tories' own previous bubble/boom & bust and hate them accordingly.

[i]ave turned virtually an entire generation of educated young people into debt slaves of priced them out of owning their own home completely.[/i]

I heard exactly the same about the Tories last time around. My parents bought their house for 27K in 1977 and by 1987 it was valued a 5 times that. All young people were priced out of the market and would psend their lives debt ridden.

Difference is, the Tories didn't throw those same young people's tax money at keeping prices propped up once the music stopped. Thus come 95 they could get a very cheap house.

Not happening this time, Brown allowed the bubble to get SO big that to let it correct would destroy the financial system. Thus it must be kept inflated AT ALL COSTS. Yay for Gordon.

BTW, the Tories' bubble was big, but if you really want a socially divisive, economically destructive asset bubble, Labour are the boys you want:

[img] [/img]

Yeehaa! Look at that 'miracle economy' go!

Worcester hospital - a great example of PFI at work 😉

Strange that graph seems to stop just before.......

I remember getting ready to go to University in 1997, glad that tuition fees were going to come in the year after.

Not really sure what all the tax I paid has gone on.

Time to give somebody else a go, I voted but some people didn't, some voted for a party to try and get a result not for who they wanted to win (very confused)

Lib Dem's seem to have suffered from this problem
Q1 Would you vote Lib Dem - Yes
Q2 Would you vote Lib Dem if they could win - Hell NO!

At least I now live in a country that is not run by that unelected madman Peter Mandleson

Before what?

A bust?

Impossible! Gordon told us countless times, he abolished boom & bust!

He's an economic genius after all.

G.Brown budget speech 1997 : "I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future"

😆

I don't understand how any socialist can defend a faux labour government that helped the wealth gap to reach its widest in sixty years. And I don't understand how anyone with a vague grasp of economics can defend a government that borrowed and borrowed whilst the economy was booming thus leaving it with a mountain of debt which has become incredibly difficult to handle now that the economy has dipped.

I agree with BBBs original post. Just can't fathom why people vote Tory after what Thatcher did.

As an aside, does anyone know how much per year we spend on our wars? Not talking about the general cost of having an army, but the extra money on having them somewhere other than nice safe barracks?

The great thing about this coalition government is that it will end up with a set of policies that NOBODY voted for. So when it all goes t!ts up everyone will have someone to blame - a future fair for all!

chiefgrooveguru - Member

I don't understand how any socialist can defend a faux labour government that helped the wealth gap to reach its widest in sixty years.

And I don't understand how anyone with a vague grasp of economics can defend a government that borrowed and borrowed whilst the economy was booming thus leaving it with a mountain of debt which has become incredibly difficult to handle now that the economy has dipped.

Errmmmm - they did not borrow thru the good times, the recent financial crisis is global not local and we have come out of it well with Brown and Darlings decisions and direction recieving global plaudits. Conversly the tory policy would have made the recession deeper and longer with more out of work.

the Labour party has managed to stuff up pretty much everything

HAH! Just you wait! 🙂 I'm not sure you know what 'stuffed up' actually is.

G.Brown budget speech 1997 : "I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future

Suggest you have a think about how government actually has to work vs what people have to say to get elected.

Errmmmm - they did not borrow thru the good times

Oh, that's just brilliant 😉

Right up there with the one earlier about RBS returning a "profit" to the taxpayer. Never let the facts get in the way, eh? 🙄

they did not borrow thru the good times

From 2002 onwards the government has been a substantial net borrower.

RBS? Returned a profit, partly owned by the taxpayer therefore the taxpayer gets some of the profit is that not right?

National debt is high but bnot as high as USA, Italy or Japan - nor is it as high as it has been in the UK in the past
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

Although 60% of GDP is alot it is worth bearing in mind, that other countries have a much bigger problem. Japan for example have a National debt of 194%, Italy is over 100%. The US national debt is close to 71% of GDP. [See other countries Debt]. Also the UK has had much higher National Debt. e.g. after the second world war it was over 180% of GDP.

Probably doesn't help that Jacqui Smith, the silly tart that started the whole expenses scandal, is from Worcestershire though

How did she start the expenses scandal? I seem to recall she was drawn into it later. She was claiming second home in redditch whilst living in a spare room in her sisters house in London. I would far rather that sort of dishonesty than some rich toff claiming to have his moat cleaned.

No way, a dirty moat is an eyesore!

Wasn't it the porn movie from Jacqui Smiths husband?

Biscuit powered you are clearly a man of reason, I salute you...

Talkemada and BBB, yes I'm "young", or at least I'd like to think I am (though come July plenty of people will tell me I'm old as I'll be 30 then!), but that is perhaps the point... We have a nation of people that seem to be voting based on their age groups. Lots of people like yourselves say you'd never vote Tory cos of what Thatcher did. Fair point from a socialists point of view, but where is the socialist party these days? There isn't one! And to say you'd never vote for a party based upon one person years ago, is quite frankly absurd in my book. Do you hate the Germans and the Japanese because of WW2 still?

Thatcher was no saint, some things she did alienated lots of the public. She remained in office for a long time though, so clearly she was keeping some people happy! You also have to remember that before she came into power the whole country was on it's knees, as a slave to the Unions. She practically destroyed them and got the country working again, so hats off there!

The point is though we are voting on modern policies and people, not age old dyed in the wool perceptions. I could never vote socialist, ever. But the point is there is no socialist party, labour would or could have got my vote... Except for the fact I happened to believe that though he was trying his best, Brown didn't have the right ideas, and he was backed up by a bunch of self interested cocks like mandelson... Lib/Con coalition will hopefully bring in some good new ideas between them!

Mboy - so so wrong - thatcher did not put the country back to work - there were significantly more people out of work at the end of the premiership than before it,

Well we now have the ConDemned party, which is better than full on Conservative.

I look forward to the return of Labour 😀

This discussion has startling parallels with the '10 speed will be awful' debates on other threads 🙂

She practically destroyed them and got the country working again, so hats off there!

Er.... she destroyed virtually all of our industry/manufacturing creating vast swathes of unemplyment and social misery.

And yes while Labour have undoubtedly wasted money speak to people in the NHS etc and they will tell you there have been real improvements - not enough but a massive improvement over the Tories.

>there were significantly more people out of work at the end of the premiership than before it,

What are the stats for the Labour government period in office ?

Mboy well said.

You can blame me i voted Tory, and in the words of Maggie on the steps of 10 Downing Street when victory was declared in the Falklands, Rejoice, Rejoice.

Get over it and move on, lets see what they do lets not assume anything. 😉

Where's the fun if you don't predict DOOM? This place was much better when Cressers was around.

What are the stats for the Labour government period in office ?

Significantly lower than throughout most of Thatcher's reign in the 80s, despite the fact that we are apparently in the worst financial crisis in x years.

I really think that people should give Cameron and Clegg a working chance of getting things back on track. If nothing else, Clegg may turn out to be the social conscience that Cameron needs, meaning that less frivolous/devisive stuff gets done, and more focus is kept on the meat of getting this country out of the mess it is in now.

Hopefully we can look back in five years time and say that maybe a coalition worked well this time.

Well unemployment rose 53,000 to 2.51 million in the three months to March (according to latest figures). That's the highest it's been since 1994.
Bloody Tories and Lib Dems causing problems already. 🙄

roper - you cannot compare the unemployment count now with the 90s - too many changes in the way it is counted but figures now are about 1.5 - 2 x what they would have been then - so 2.5 million unemployed now is about he same as 3.5 - 5 million unemployed then

she destroyed virtually all of our industry/manufacturing

ONS figures - manufacturing output index seasonally adjusted -

Thatcher comes in - 86.6
Thatcher goes - 91.9

c.f. Nulab come in - 97.6
Now - 90.2.

roper - you cannot compare the unemployment count now with the 90s - too many changes in the way it is counted but figures now are about 1.5 - 2 x what they would have been then - so 2.5 million unemployed now is about he same as 3.5 - 5 million unemployed then

Let's see your references TJ, not just these ridiculous assertions. In correct Harvard format please.

ONS figures - manufacturing output index seasonally adjusted -

Thatcher comes in - 86.6
Thatcher goes - 91.9

c.f. Nulab come in - 97.6
Now - 90.2.

Very selective interpretation there. So you're saying that during the worst worldwide financial crisis of at least the last 30 years the figures are about the same as under Thatcher's reign? What were they in 2008 before the crash? What's the trend right now?

Also I said industry/manufacturing not just manufacturing.

Haven't read the whole thing, but personally I quite like the idea of conservative/libdem coalition - aren't two heads better than one?

TJ, I didn't say she put the country back to work... I said she got them working... Subtle difference!

That difference being that previously most of the UK workforce was turning up to work 3 days a week, and doing bugger all whilst there. She fought the Unions and got people working a 5 day week again. There were casualties, but on the whole the country was a lot better off as a result. Simple maths really...

30 million people x 3 days per week x 4 productive hours per day = 360million productive hours per week

28 million people x 5 days per week x 8 productive hours per day = 1160million producive hours per week

See what I did there? 😉

Oh, and on the note of RBS. Indeed, why spoil a good Labour story by publishing the truth... Anybody here work for RBS?Anybody been interviewed by them recently for a job? Well 3 months ago I was in the latter position, the guy interviewing me told me about where I would fit in with the plan to reduce the £2.7Billion deficit that RBS is currently running at! All of that been financed at the taxpayers expense of course... Great job Labour in managing that one effectively!

Very selective interpretation there. So you're saying that during the worst worldwide financial crisis of at least the last 30 years the figures are about the same as under Thatcher's reign? What were they in 2008 before the crash? What's the trend right now?

Also I said industry/manufacturing not just manufacturing.

Trend under nulab has been largely flat, with a recent drop which we can put down to the "global" crisis. Thatcher years show a drop for 2 years followed by a consistent rise to above where it started. If I knew how to post an Excel graph I'd show you the details.

Figures are for manufacturing industries, If I added in others then the trend would be similar, except for mining and quarrying which has been in decline since 1953 but strangely also increased during the Thatcher years (I didn't expect that!).

timc - Member
Mboy where do you live? local transport on merseyside has improved without doubt although Im not sure thats thanks to the government!?

My Mum has worked for the NHS for 30 years and tells me she has seen vast improvements in the last decade in our local sector? Just because its not right, doesnt mean it hasnt improoved...

Sharkbait and Willard, correct lets not judge now, give them a fair chance to do the business, i am hopefull and confident this will work.
The whole process over the last few days has been fascinating to watch IMO and definately looks like a new era for British Politics.

molgrips - Member
(quote)G.Brown budget speech 1997 : "I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future

Suggest you have a think about how government actually has to work vs what people have to say to get elected.

I suggest [i]you[/i] have a think about how a country should be run for its best long term economic and social interest Vs how a short termist, ego driven, power hungry chancellor will run things to keep the music playing and his party in office long enough to inherit the top job he coveted oh-so-dearly for oh-so-many years.

echoing mboy and missingfrontalobe here.

NuLabour ceased to become a political party and became a marketing company a long while ago, doing anything (knee jerk crazy laws) that will get the right headlines in the redtops.

Are the die hard Labour dudes a bit like supporting the same football team your dad did for life?

EXAMPLE
Labour pumps in big$$$ to NHS and other public sectors for years yet we don't get the proportionate improvements.
A few weeks before a general election is called, Labour 'identifies' millions (billions?) of 'efficiency savings' in public sector/NHS.
Are we happy to have a government that thinks we're thick? or are we just actually thick?

In simple answer to Bigs original post i too am dissapointed and it's left me with a bad taste for sure...i dont claim to have the political understanding that many on here have (maybee) but I just can't see CMD's lot or his new side kick doing anything but going back to there roots which is a tad dissapointing IMO.

Ok lets look at housing - up until the late 60's gov't determined how much houses could be sold for.
The gov't relaxed that control and we had a housing boom and a crash - except housing was included in inflationary figures which explains the double figured inflation of the 70's.

A lot of pensions are sold based on the fact of double figure inflation - unitized with profits etc....

During the 80's house price controls were relaxed further - we have another housing boom and a crash, anyone remember Black Monday 1987?

Labour not voted in due to scandals around Labour & Russia (it was still the cold war) and Union behaviour in the 70's, plus Kinnock fell over running away from the sea.

Double income now allowed for Mortgage calculations.
A cunning gov't then targeted single figure inflation... and removed housing from the inflation figures; tada single figure inflation.
Except all those poor suckers who bought pensions and are now stuffed.
Both parents now have to work in order to buy a house.

90's and 0's House price boom continues as FSA allows mortgages on > 3 times salary on both incomes and self-certified mortgages. Housing boom continues fuelled by Banking bonuses rippling out from London; Banking bonuses fuelled by trading (speculating/gambling) on self-certified mortgages.
Loads of people making loadsa money on spiralling housing market - any prospective gov't can't stop the boom; they'd never get voted in.

The boom busts and there's lots of finger pointing at gov't etc... without anyone saying - I paid over the odds for house x and made a killing on house y and my personal debt is z.

How far would any party that suggested a house price cap get in the polls?

Tomorrow public transport....

The coalition deal was finally sealed yesterday evening during a hastily arranged phone call between David Cameron and Nick Clegg where they compared notes on the daughters of minor aristocrats that they had felt up at charity balls in the 1980s.

The prime minister's spokesman said: "We knew we had a workable, four year deal when David and Nick both realised they had probably fingered the Hon. Charlotte Brampton during the same Henley Regatta."

The new administration started work immediately as Downing Street released the first round of cabinet appointments including Binky, Pinky, Ponky, Porky, Splodger, Dodger, Bodger, Badger, Fishy Frobisher, good old Charlie Two-Yachts and Vince Cable.

You could at least credit your sources grum (it might not be obvious to everyody)
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/the-torch-has-been-passed-to-a-new-generation-of-public-school-nancy-boys-201005122720/

I'm not sure the housing market has 'crashed' properly in historical terms. Still very very expensive compared to wages, ne c'est pas?

It hasn't at all, molgrips - still nowhere near what it was in terms of affordability.

Strange that graph seems to stop just before.......

In 1997 the ecomomy was in pretty good shape, national debt of about £7 billion, small change in national terms.
After riding the wave of worldwide prosperity it's now about £1.5 trillion, double that if you include PFI. New Labour spent most of this bribing you with your own money.
Naturally enough now the people the money was borrowed from are nervous that they may not get it back and the cost of these borrowings will increase (see Greece).
To put it in proportion the interest costs are about half the cost of the NHS.
Many of you on here are public employees, (the self employed rarely have time to fritter away on forums), and I'm afraid you will bear the brunt of a "readjustment". Sorry about that, I hope you put some money away during the good times, Gordon certainly didn't.

Let don't really knwo about waht tories will do to the UK, but I can tell you what right wing have done to France.
I had to leave my country to be able to study thanks to f-tories cutting educations and research credit. I took it as a chance to discover another country, another culture and get to finish my studies by getting a PhD.
Now I am back although we did change of president (probably not for the better) things have not improved. I am meant to have what people call a "comfortable" wedge well sorry I use to have one as I only got hired for on year (yes the cutting science credit mentioned above), but this wedge is barely sufficient to allow me a decent level of living. If it wasn't for me living rent free at my mum's I would probably not have been able to keep cycling. Same with my partner. She's living with her son at her dad's but can barely meet both ends. Sure we both do luxury things such as going to the cinema, having coffees or buying books. The number of children per class have rocket from 20 to 30, but this increase of tax have not been compensate by teachers salary to be re-evaluated. However if you buy your kid private tuitions, you can get a tax break for it. But funny enough you need to be able to afford it first. Oh I am sure some people don't complain. Specially the ones that manage to get a tax break through the decrease of the tax shield (3% of the population costing the other 97% 6 billion a year), the change in the tax on legacy (6% of the people costing the other 94% again a few billions of euros) or the change of the VAT for the restaurant owners (I have yet to see any prices coming down on the price list).
Government have managed to keep the finances aflot by selling the shares of the electricity, the motorways companies and renautl. Now i don't see the bad in that expect that
EDF (electricity company) is now more interested in making money by selling electricity in south east UK than it's interested in keep the existing rural network working.
Motorways company makes billions every years and keep reducing the number of staff.
Renault cried for some money from the government jus tot tell the gvt to go and get sexual acquaintances with himself, no they won't move production back in France.
I wouldn't want to get injured right now as I am not sure I'll be able to afford the cost of the health expenses.

Now I am going to have to pay taxes, and the reward I have from the government by going every day to work by bike + train is that I can pay 1488€ of taxes. Obviously I would have much more prefered to pay only 844€. But for that, I would have had to go to work by car.
One could argue that the only thing french socialist have done is hiring useless teachers, doctors, creating an universal health cover for the less fortunates, decrease the time of work, abolish the death penalty and so and so. But then, some people are going to say that I am biased.

molgrips
n'est ce pas 😉

Some people are going to say you should use paragraphs. Juan 😉

don't really know about what tories will do to the UK, but I can tell you what right wing have done to France.

French Tories are no where near as right-wing as British Tories. You've got a bunch of lefties in comparison.

Griz i don't think so. My dear and lovely president is closer to BNP than it is to tories 🙁