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No way that trump will pull out; that brings the certainty that pending legal cases will proceed when he loses any presidential immunity.
As for the 25th amendment, if trump doesn't stand down there needs to be a majority vote of the 15 secretaries of state for executive departments to force him out; it won't happen.
As for Pence, what are his policies and what does he stand for?
Religious conservative, aligned with the NRA, pro coal and dirty energy, anti LGBTQ rights.
Nicki Haley will stay well away from the trump shit-storm and this year's election.
Her best hope is that Biden wins, spends 4 years trying to clear up the trump mess, taking unpopular decisions for the greater good; by then he will be 81/82 and clearly past it.
Haley's focus should be on 2024.
Frank,
I mentioned a while back how I thought that legal cases against Trump could be made to go away if he did, allowing the nation to breathe a sigh of relief and focus on rebuilding the country rather than recriminations. Then a few weeks later the Michael Flynn case was dropped. Which I thought was interesting.
Pence is all the things you say Frank but he has been able to keep his nose remarkably clean for someone up to their neck in a cesspit. Haley distanced herself from Trump by resigning but kept her powder dry, so as not to frighten the Republican horses. Whatever Pences idealogical bent he surely knows he cant fight a campaign as Trump 2.0, and he won't.
His tone would be calm and conciliatory (irrespective of actual intentions) leaving the media to be the attack dogs. He'd just stand there looking presidential. That's all he does anyway, his strategy is to get in front of the camera, look presidential and say as little as possible. I bet he practices that look in the mirror every morning.
Long shot I know but surely a bit of an outlier?
Anyway, appreciate all those entertaining my esoteric musings, whatever your personal predictions.
Inkster, when it comes to US politics I'll speculate but it's so unpredictable that I definitely wouldn't wager on any aspect of it.
RW ‘militias’ are faux hardmen; in reality, they’re inadequates who bully because that’s the limit of their ability
I accept quite a few of them are but there's also a lot of ex-military in them and some of the militias train regularly. The key question (for a civil war) I guess is how many active military & police are also militia members (are they even allowed to be)?
If you pit the militias against the US military then ofc they've got no chance but if the military is in disarray due to divided loyalties or simply large numbers of them being unwilling to fire on US civilians then maybe it swings things enough a civil war (in some sort of guise) actually becomes a realistic possibility. Initially it would be the disaffected hard right engaging left-wing civilians rather than military anyway.
I think the whole militia/survivalist/prepper thing suddenly became a lot less scary after it turned out they call had meltdowns after 2 weeks of not being able to go to the movies or get a haircut.
https://www.politico.com/gallery/2020/06/02/matt-wuerker-cartoons-june-2020-003717?slide=0
Some very pointed cartoons from the US.
He really is the lowest of the low.
As for option 4 up there, he will never admit he can't win, as he never admits he was wrong.
He's already covered the possibility of a loss with his postal ballots = fixed election rant.
There's always the assassination route open, though.....
There is no bottom
I could not believe that tweet. He has sunk lower than I ever thought was possible.
What's worse is some of the replies to it from his base.
There is no bottom
Came here to post that. I thought our government were insensitive with some of the BLM comments over the weekend. Calling a 75-year old bloke a possible 'terrorist' attempting to mess with police comms kit? Wow. His Twitter account did have some anti-police stuff on it according to the press, but still.
Its an established police protocol that you can counteract attempts to scan and jam radio communications by pushing an old bloke over and waking away.
His Twitter account did have some anti-police stuff
Of course what the video that has been circulated doesn't show was the officer in question had just moments earlier had been scrolling through the blokes twitter history - it was intelligence led policing in action. Surgical.
Perhaps, in the meantime, the police need to stop doing things that people feel motivated to tweet about. If they're not careful there'll be more tweets of them pushing people over than there is time for them to push more people over.
My favorite tweet
Again, I must say: you are an absolute ****opotamus.
Those 3 percenters are a piece of work, huh?
So where’s this headed, I see three options:
You didn't mention COVID in your options either. Unless it is indeed a miracle and just disappears, I can see that being back in the Autumn deflecting focus from campaigning. The current approach seems to be just ignore it and let the States deal with it.
It is staggering how you think he cannot go any lower, then he goes lower.
Last week he was saying that it was a great day for (recently killed by police) George Floyd. This week he is sharing laughable conspiracy theories about the poor guy in Buffalo. Where the hell will it be next week?
So is it actually Trump sat in the Oval Office firing off tweets, or is there a team behind it all, running models, thinking up options, disruption being used as a technique? i.e Trump is a carefully managed brand?
I'm honestly surprised the lid has been kept on from the protestors side. With such provocation they really need to be commended, plenty of other places people would have been throwing petrol bombs long before now. Or worse.
Ah, seems to be this guy. Apols if been said before in the thread. A few articles on this, Trump is not computer-literate. So if a tweet is anything more than plain text it's said to be Scavino. Trump's caddy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Scavino
https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/915590421597818880?s=20
I’m honestly surprised the lid has been kept on from the protestors side. With such provocation they really need to be commended, plenty of other places people would have been throwing petrol bombs long before now. Or worse.
The protesters are up against a vastly superior force that has consistently shown, even when being filmed and under intense extra scrutiny, that they really don't give a shit about using violence against civilians - armed or unarmed, protesting or not.
I imagine the protesters are aware that anything over and above sitting there peacefully will be used as an excuse to use every bit of "non-lethal" weaponry against them.
Jamze
SubscriberSo is it actually Trump sat in the Oval Office firing off tweets, or is there a team behind it all, running models, thinking up options, disruption being used as a technique?
It's all just a Cards Against Humanity game
There’s always the assassination route open, though…..
Again, in genuinely surprised that no attempts have been made on Trump or police. Something similar to that guy shooting from the hotel at the country music festival.
Plenty of people in the States with high powered sniper rifles.
Plenty of
peopleRepublicans in the States with high powered sniper rifles.
Fixed that for you
The really incredible thing about that tweet is that even if it was true, it wouldn’t be justification for the actions of the police. It is wrong on so many levels
I feel sorry for Americans. They either support Trump which clearly makes them imbeciles or they oppose him and must be mortified by how the rest of the world views America right now
must be mortified by how the rest of the world views America right now
I don't think that most Americans realise how humiliated they currently are on the international stage, and many just think anyone critical is a hater jealous of American exceptionalism, basically if a bratty teenage girl was country, it would be the USA.
I’ve spoken to a few American friends and work mates. All of them are feeling worried, ashamed and pretty much despise Trump.
I don’t think that most Americans realise how humiliated they currently are on the international stage
Ahem, Johnston... I think we can work out pretty much they feel... 🤦🏼♂️
There’s something back a bit about outside actors influencing events being just more conspiracy rubbish, well that tweet from Angry Tinkerbell up there ^^ is an example. It quotes OANN, well one of the reporters for OANN is a Russian who works for Sputnik, a Russian news agency, who reported the initial bogus info about that incident from QAnon, then Angry Tinkerbell passes the tweet on...
https://boingboing.net/2020/06/09/trump-tweets-that-buffalo-prot.html
Again, in genuinely surprised that no attempts have been made on Trump or police. Something similar to that guy shooting from the hotel at the country music festival.
The kind of people who are of that mindset are the kind of people who Trump appeals to - at the moment even the police's actions would seem appealing to that kind of loan-wolf loser-assassin type of character. I think theres much more danger of assassination to anyone who runs or campaigns against Trump and even more so to people who have worked with Trump and then criticise him. I think even the risk off assassination from foreign enemies of the US is pretty negligible - Trump is doing more damage to the US both domestically and to its relationship with allies than any foreign power could even dream of inflicting themselves.
I don’t think that most Americans realise how humiliated they currently are on the international stage,
My brother in law does.
It may also be a case of at least some of the Americans not caring what they look like because, well, 'Murica.
If your outlook is insular, then why care what people think about you?
I've just come back from 3 months working with a bunch of Southern-state Americans and I can tell you with absolute certainty that they do not give one iota of shit about how they are viewed from outside. They love Trump and everything he stands for, they hate Democrats to the point they truly believe they are evil in a biblical sense. There was even one suggesting that the rubber bullets being used on protestors/journalists/innocent bystanders should be swapped for lead and it seemed to be a well-received comment. From my experience a significant portion of America is lost to partisan, faux-religious nationalism and I don't have too much hope for the election in November.
The protesters are up against a vastly superior force that has consistently shown, even when being filmed and under intense extra scrutiny, that they really don’t give a shit about using violence against civilians – armed or unarmed, protesting or not.
I imagine the protesters are aware that anything over and above sitting there peacefully will be used as an excuse to use every bit of “non-lethal” weaponry against them.
Never stopped anyone in Indonesia etc.
There’s something back a bit about outside actors influencing events being just more conspiracy rubbish
That was the 5g thread, Cougar and I are conspiracy nuts apparantly.
I think what the prime minister meant to say is:
'The United States is a Camp Bastion of peace and freedom.'
EDIT
Perhaps the signal was cutting out in his earpiece.
From my experience a significant portion of America is lost to partisan, faux-religious nationalism
I think it's a minority, and it's over represented in the media and notwithstanding your experience of your recent spell with those Americans I equally know loads that are pretending to be Canadian* for the same reason...
* well they're not really, but I've heard it said in jest to me and my Canadian partner on many a Skype call.
Jonathan Pie spot on as ever [STRONG LANGUAGE WARNING]
Enjoying this guys tweets... (posting some of the cleaner ones)
https://twitter.com/itsJeffTiedrich/status/1270340438285848577
https://twitter.com/itsJeffTiedrich/status/1269334131655180289
https://twitter.com/itsJeffTiedrich/status/1270458264732434434
I love his Twitter feed, it's a three-year non-stop Binners-style rant (minus the Monty Python references, obviously).
As expected, his response to BLM was hold a race relations round-table and invite a bunch of conservative African Americans to say what a fantastic job you're doing, dis' Obama, the left, the media etc.
Putin and Xi must be pissing themselves that they've managed to reduce a competing superpowers international standing without firing a (conventional) shot
CNN source (so your mileage may vary), but this sounds like utter bullshit: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/trump-campaign-cnn-poll/index.html
In other news, his military is supportive of changing the names of bases that honour Confederate generals. Trump says no. Guess his base wouldn't like it.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270787974880526337
Then Nascar did this...
https://twitter.com/timneufeld/status/1270838317072781313?s=20
CNN source (so your mileage may vary), but this sounds like utter bullshit:
CNN's General Council seems to agree...
https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1270802155201576962?s=20
CNN’s General Council seems to agree…
David C. Vigilante - what a great name 🙂
CNN source (so your mileage may vary)
Funny thing is that the Fox News poll broadly agrees. It's just Fox are a lot less likely to shout about that result.
STATIC.FOXNEWS.COM Someone said earlier that Trump had his voter fraud conspiracy thoeory ready and primed to use as a way of disputing the election result.
I think that one is about to blow up in his face. The chaos at the voting booths in places like Georgia and the push back by Republicans in Iowa where some elections were actually run freely and democratically has served only to highlight that the only voter fraud is the Republicans defrauding the electorate.
For over 2 decades, the Republicans have leveraged voter suppression and gerrymandering in order to retain power at state and local level. The closing of voting stations, messing with the postal vote and 6 /7 hours queuing to vote in Democratic areas during coronavirus has bought the issue to a head in a way that doesn't play in Trumps favour anymore.
The next demand will be federal oversight of the election process. As it stands, it's not really fair to call the USA a democracy, to do so is a stain on Countries that adhere to the one person one vote principle. The USA is a quasi democracy.
The US is a hypocrisy.
It's concerning that electoral interference by Russia and China has been given so little publicity; CV19 and George Floyd have provided perfect cover and distracted attention.
The GOP have corrupted the democratic voting process.
Many reports and opinion polls point to trump losing support in most voter groups - other than white men without college degrees.
I live in hope that he fails to be re-elected and various DAs aggressively pursue cases against him.
How will the orange buffoon respond to Gen Mark Milley?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53012887
Bigly via twitter with attempts at character assassination as usual at a guess
Latest shocker. The scumbag thinks he can take back Seattle. Caused some bickering.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53017776
The Seattle situation is interesting. Presumably a state/city issue rather than national, but "abandoning" an area sets a very tricky precedent. How the hell do the Police go back in and return it to some sort of (hopefully improved) normality without provoking a huge backlash?
I think they would have to be invited in by the people currently doing the law and order there.
An interesting paragraph in the BBC article said that the Seattle Police are talking up longer response times for serious crimes like muggings in that area, going from 8-20 minutes to over an hour. I did not see figures on how may of those crimes are actually taking place.
It would be embarrassing I guess if the response time was projected and that the crime rate had fallen significantly during the occupation.
I get that, but I've no idea how the UK would react if, for example, a gang of people claiming to represent the residents of, say, Salford, forced out the GMP and set up their own checkpoints round the edges. Is it true democracy or mob rule?
Interesting how Gen. Milley's response coincided with Biden suggesting the military would remove Trump with haste should he contest the election result.
There are open lines of communication between the military and the Democrats. Last week both the Defemse Secretary and Chief of Staff phoned Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. When 3 of your top military appointees have gone rogue (If defending the constitution against a demagogue of a president can be called going rogue) you're in trouble. Perhaps Trump could sack them all and replace them with Don Jr. Eric and Jared.
Trump is playing the Erdogan game but the USA isn't Turkey. Trump is at war with the constitution and he's going to lose. He constantly encourages the red neck 2nd amendment militias to take a stand against the protesters. What he doesn't count on is the fact that it won't be the red necks versus BLM, it will very quickly become red necks versus the US military and there's only going to be one winner there.
If Trump does get dragged through the courts it might not be for election interference etc, it could be for treason, for encouraging an insurrection.
How will the orange buffoon respond to Gen Mark Milley?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53012887/blockquote >That boast by Trump that clearing Lafayette Square for his photo op was 'a walk in the park' 🙄 No wonder Milley is now trying to distance himself.
Unfortunate abbreviation for the Secret Service too 😂
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1271062068238651392?s=20
Unfortunate abbreviation for the Secret Service too
I was going to mention that, but thought I was being silly. Has he always used that abbreviation/is it generally accepted?
How the hell do the Police go back in and return it to some sort of (hopefully improved) normality
They rode through on motorcycles just last night, so I guess the answer to that is pretty easily...
O believe they typically refer to themselves as USSS. (United States secret service).
So same amount of characters, but he went with S.S. over USSS. Interesting.
At least he didn't say einsatzgruppen when refering to the police.
Unfortunate abbreviation for the Secret Service too
I've never really heard mention of the Secret Service until this current situation. And even then in relation to (and in comparison to) the various other agencies at demonstrations that turned out to be The Prison Service and other. The comparison being that these organisations weren't wearing any identification - unlike the Secret Service.
So if the Secret Service identify themselves as "The Secret Service" .... whats the secret?*
*Naturally, I'll say it's the wine
Mmmm, it does go well with the chicken! Delicious again, Peter.
I know this is childish and doesn't add anything to the debate.
Too big
Question for singletrackworlders.
If you were a Black American and come the November election you find yourself either:
Having not received your postal ballot.
Having had your postal ballot sealed on delivery.
Not on the electoral roll.
Your name miss spelt on the polling station register, denying you your right to vote..
Without a poling station with in reasonable distance from your home because your local poling station was closed.
Having to deal with machines not working properly at your polling station.
Not being able to attend your local polling station because of restricted opening hours and you have to go to work.
Find yourself having to queue up to vote for 6 or 7 hours.
Do you:
A. Burn the polling station down or
B. Burn the polling station down?
going by the way he struggled down that ramp and the difficulty he had drinking the glass of water, it's not looking good for him.... it going to zimmer frames at dawn between him and Biden.... the least frail wins.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1272000237809414149
very steep ?????
The guy next to him managed and his running ten feet was about two paces at normal walking speed.
going by the way he struggled down that ramp
He was at Westpoint so his instincts probably dictated he walked with a limp to avoid getting drafted.
Momentum!
A bit late with his endorsement of Jeremy Corbin 🙂
Nah, the walk is just a man in his 70s. My dad is in his 70s, struggles a bit on stairs and downhills but is still razor sharp. Out of the ludicrous amount of faults Trump has, I’ll give him the difficulty a man of his age would have with the ramp.
but is still razor sharp.
Unfortunately Trump is not exactly this. It's the accompanying severe cognitive decline that's the issue.
Another man in his 70s earlier....
https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1272041452126650369
Not Obama, the other bloke.
I’ll give him the difficulty a man of his age would have with the ramp.
Indeed. Its the lying about it that makes it a Trump thing.
If you're a president who's going to lie to your public about you're physical abilities or lack of ... at least make an effort
all though FDR was paralysed from the waist down, not from the neck up 🙂
So if the Secret Service identify themselves as “The Secret Service” …. whats the secret?*
Primary missions
The Secret Service is mandated by Congress with two distinct and critical national security missions: protecting the nation's leaders and safeguarding the financial and critical infrastructure of the United States.
As much as I dislike Donald Trump, he just looked like an old guy walking down a ramp. He is old and it didn't have handrails - H&S! Lots of accidents on things like that.
As much as I dislike Donald Trump, he just looked like an old guy walking down a ramp. He is old and it didn’t have handrails – H&S! Lots of accidents on things like that.
Look at the way he stands leaning forward as well (a known sign of frontotemporal dementia as discussed earlier in this thread). That doesn't help on inclines.
But no, there's something not quite correct with his right side (his right WING side is still very much on point!). Sort of symptomatic of a minor stroke. A teacher of mine had the same, it was barely noticeable (and certainly hadn't affected her cognitive abilities) but she was the same with walking and using her right arm. Less noticeable than Trump though.
He'd be joining a long and varied history of POTUS lacking dexterity of having disabilities. Nixon aides reported discovering aspirin bottles with tooth marks on the cap, Kennedy had a full house of ailments, Clinton would have memorised his number down the clinic.
Well, this Saturday is going to be interesting. Capacity (seated) at the BOK Centre, Tulsa is under 20,000?
Data haul 🤔
https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1272191356845391875
Has anyone ever seen Trump eat a 99?
It's kind of crazy how really old all the Presidential candidates are
Trump
Biden
Saunders
Warren