Darts is not a sport

You don’t get to where he is at anything, sport or otherwise, unless you put some serious graft in

Good luck to him. I love the fact that he seems baffled by all the attention

Au contraire, they are all sports since they all require physical excellence and skill.

nope nope nope - that'd make competitive chainsaw sculpture a sport. Is that where you want this to go?

To reiterate. Games and pastimes are good things. Silly shit we make up to entertain ourselves (or others) do not have to be called sports to have merit. Darts and snooker are great games. Shooting is just a bit weird (as is horse dancing).

Here’s a clue, regarding my question above; this is my bow - it’s an Olympic class recurve. Compound bows were due to be included at LA 2028, but no longer, sadly.

Have you ever shot an apple off somebodies head?

Or a kebab out of anyones hand?

Nice bow

Lawn needs some attention

(from twitter)

I’ve taken 3 kids to football and rugby in the pissing down rain, sat through swimming lessons, cheerleading, and rainbows and scouts!!!

Luke Littler's Dad took him to the pub

Let that sink in folks

Luke Humphries played a blinder in the second semi-final. Luke v Luke in the final should be something special going by the games I've seen so far.

In order to decide whether something is a "sport" or not, we must first define inconclusively what we mean by a sport.

Until we manage that, this thread and many previous like it is just another middle-aged fat lad* starting a thread about something they don't like and / or being pissy because someone younger than them is excelling at something they couldn't.

Molgrips had your answer on the previous page. Does it matter whether it's a sport, a game or a wallpaper adhesive by whatever metrics you've come up with? Does it change anything?

(* - I have no idea what the OP's midriff may look like, I don't recall who started this thread even, but if we're in the process of unprovoked mudslinging I thought I might as well join in)

Race walking is also not a sport.  Sure, you have to be extremely fit but it's just so stupid it simply doesn't count.  It's a thing overweight dads are supposed to do at the school sports day so that their kids can laugh at them but it somehow got completely out of hand.  Seriously, you might as well have the 100m sack race as an Olympic sport.

See also three out of the four strokes in swimming.

They'll be calling the pastime of bicycling a sport next.

So that's 'mountainbiking' out for sure.

nope nope nope – that’d make competitive chainsaw sculpture a sport.

If someone wielding a chainsaw announces its a sport I would have to agree with them.

Enquiring minds want to know<br /><br />

Darts, obviously. Three sports are in the sentence, one is referred to by reference to the thread title 😗.

chainsaw sculpting could be if the scoring works out properly.

chainsaw sculpting could be if the scoring works out properly.

Bravo!

Chess is a game as no physical skill is needed. Snooker is also a sport, as is golf for the same reasons.

Fails the 8 pints and a kebab test.

It's a sport.

Have we done ebikes yet?

Which is why its the Olympic Games and not the Olympic Sports, and its all the better for that.

It doesn't matter, the fact that Simone Biles can and does do all the things she can do, and all the while looks like she's having huge amounts of fun doing it, is impressive. Dismissing it because its judged is in itself, just being judgemental.

To me a competitive sport has to have a winner who wins without having judges awarding points.
Things like gymnastics, synchronised swimming etc are athletic and skillful but not sports.

Sorry didn't read thread properly.

Ignore post

Defo NOT a sport .... you can participate in everyday shoes.

So just like snooker and archery, darts is a past time.

A sport needs specialized shoe wear !! 🙂

So just like snooker and archery, darts is a past pastime.

Is pedantry a sport?

I guess you could argue Archery is from a past time but as a current way to pass the time it's valid.

I propose a new definition... Sport has come from practicing martial and hunting skills surely. So prove it developers a useful skill in one of those fields and you're golden.

“an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

I think "skill" is the key differentiator between a game and a sport, but you have to adopt a particular approach. Chess is regarded as a game because no skill is involved in performing the physical activity of moving the pieces (for able folk anyhow). Arguably the card game "snap" should be classified as a sport, as should shove ha'penny and the like. But there is the marzipan category of "games of skill". E-sports are sports presumably because of the real - time element.

So darts, archery, rifle shooting and the like are sports.

Is pedantry a sport?

Nah, I bet you are wearing crocs at this very moment.... 🙂

It's a sh!t boring pub game and nothing more.  Paint drying is far more exciting.

Or you could look it as Sport coming from old French for leisure and Game coming from the old English for fun. So they are all games and sports.

Anything played in a pub while drinking.  Darts, pool, snooker (posh pubs), dominoes, cards, tiddly winks, backgammon, chess. Not sports.

Cricket - marginal. I’ve only played twice, but I found you could place your pint behind the wicket while batting and simply carry it while fielding. Might be a port for the bowler and wicket goalie.

If tedious arguing is a sport, this is the World Cup.

It requires time and effort to get as good as they are to allow a level of high consistency - makes no odds what it is classed as, it isn't something you can just grab and be amazingly good at consistently. Putting the time and effort in (for anything) is commendable and doesn't really matter what some people call it and what others call it.

The positive for this website is that it gives plenty of people a chance to get agitated, annoyed and post intentionally wind-up material...and so we go round again.

Personally, I think everyone should be allowed a veto on what is allowed to be called a sport.  Hemingway got his veto in early so that reduces the pool quite a bit:

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games

I'm going to use my veto for Bullfighting.  Not so much because of the cruelty, more because it takes the 'special footwear' argument and goes way too far into the realms of ridiculous.

Motor racing is out as well, I'm afraid.  Anything where one of the pre-requisites to enter is having a very very very rich daddy means it can't be a real sport.  Also, when Hemingway said it I think drivers had a 50/50 chance of surviving a full season.

That leaves mountaineering as The Only Sport.  Unless someone wants to veto that as well.

It’s a sh!t boring pub game and nothing more. Paint drying is far more exciting.

But it's not – that's just a lazy trope. It's a shame that some people here seem so keen to belittler his fantastic achievement.

If you have to queue it's not really a sport

A sport needs specialized shoe wear !!

Paging @captainflasheart, paging @captainflasheart.

Seems paperclip sales is a sport...

Sport has come from practicing martial and hunting skills surely

You can kill animals with darts, maybe small ones, so it must qualify......here wench, cook this vole i have slain...

If you have to queue it’s not really a sport

TBF, most of that lot have paid someone to drag them up. I mean, all they are doing is putting one foot in front of the other and wondering how their share investments are going.

If you have to queue it’s not really a sport

Yup, it's official.  Sport is dead.  We are a species of tiddlywinks players with delusions of grandeur.

But it’s not – that’s just a lazy trope. It’s a shame that some people here seem so keen to belittler his fantastic achievement.

They're just a troll. Not sure if that is a sport or a pastime.

Been thinking about molgrips' comment about darts Vs snooker. I don't think he went far enough. The complexity of snooker in term of nuance if off the scale in comparison to darts.

But that's a separate argument. I give you javelin throwing - basically a big dart and you just have to lob it as far as possible. No accuracy, just Wang it. Boring as hell. It makes darts look stupidly complicated but javelin is unquestionably a sport. Darts is a game. A good pub game, sometimes played in front of a crowd in dodgy Spandex tops by competitors who seemingly have to have a nickname.

I'd like to add a further caveat to what makes a sport (on top of no jeans, sweating, specialist footwear and judges doing qualitative only scoring) - you are at real risk of injury if doing it properly. And RSI doesn't count. So wafting a computer mouse or games controller around, twiddling a cue or throwing a 20g dart (or even competitive tommy tanking) don't count as the injury risk is too low.

I don't really get the subjective scoring = not proper sport argument.

Pretty much all sports have some form of 'judging'.  In sports like football the referee is constantly making subjective calls about whether play is legal or not.  Even sports like weightlifting have subjective judging about whether a lift is pressed out or not.

Every sport has at least some form of subjective judging.  I'm not sure why people feel that sports that require judges to directly assign a score means that they somehow aren't proper sports.

throwing a 20g dart [doesn't] count as the injury risk is too low.

My experience as a student was different.

Anything played in a pub while drinking. Darts, pool, snooker (posh pubs), dominoes, cards, tiddly winks, backgammon, chess. Not sports.

Where do we stand on Pétanque?

Surely behind the line?

It’s a sh!t boring pub game and nothing more.

Aye, skittles is much better.

Anyway, Ned Boulting would like a word.

Boxing is clearly a sport, despite judging being involved (although the judges usually ruin it tbf)

also, last time I was in a fight I had a kebab in my hand at the time, so clearly that’s not a disqualified either..

Sounds like Kebabby; British form of Kibaddi, but held at 3am in a high street.

most people would class cricket as a sport, yet you can do 90% of that without sweating at all.

I take umbrage at this comment. I'll have you know I break into a sweat just being selected...😳

If darts isn’t a sport, not is fishing, curling, shooting, dressage, bowls and others.

I suggest the person who posted this has never tried serious curling!

Scotroutes is correct - it should be obvious to a casual observer with a copy of the rules who won.  If it is necessary for the judge to spend years studying the art form to judge who is better then it’s not sport - although it may be a perfectly valid pastime.

Scotroutes is correct – it should be obvious to a casual observer with a copy of the rules who won.  If it is necessary for the judge to spend years studying the art form to judge who is better then it’s not sport – although it may be a perfectly valid pastime.

Then football and rugby (and in fact the vast majority of sports) aren't sports.

competitive tommy tanking) don’t count as the injury risk is too low.

You say that, but...

Then football and rugby (and in fact the vast majority of sports) aren’t sports.

Why's that's? Football, rugby - pretty definitive scoring. A referee might have to make a call or watch a video to see if the ball went over a line etc but that's a world away from "well he entered the water a little bit more splashy than the last fella and his wrist was at a tiny bit of an angle so he gets a 7.4 instead of a 7.5.

It's ok for sports to have rules that are not stupids friendly. But artistic impression as a method of scoring is different. Might as well be the WI summer fate flower arranging competition. Or Strictly and a 10 from Len......though someone's going to come along in a minute and say they think that's a sport.

Darts is a popular activity among liberals, atheists, and Europeans, who claim that it is a challenging, skillful, and competitive sport. However, darts fails to meet the basic criteria of a sport, and is in fact a game, a hobby, or a form of gambling. Here are some reasons why darts is not a sport:

- Darts does not require any physical fitness or exertion. Anyone can throw a dart, even children, seniors, and the obese. Unlike real sports such as football, baseball, or hockey, darts does not involve any speed, endurance, strength, or strategy. Darts players simply toss a small metal object at a circular board, hoping to hit the right spot. There is no challenge, no thrill, and no glory in darts.
- Darts is not governed by a set of rules or standards. Darts players often cheat, lie, and manipulate the outcome of the game. They do not respect the authority of the referees, the judges, or the fans. They also use performance-enhancing drugs, such as alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine. Darts is a dishonest, immoral, and corrupt activity, not a sport.
- Darts is not undertaken competitively or capable of achieving a result. Darts players do not compete against each other, but against themselves, the board, and the luck. They do not care about winning or losing, but about scoring points, hitting bullseyes, and finishing the game. They do not have a clear objective, a score, or a ranking. Darts is a subjective, individualistic, and meaningless activity, not a sport.

Darts is a liberal scam, designed to promote a secular agenda, undermine American values, and weaken the national defense. Darts players are not athletes, but gamblers, who should be banned from public places, bars, and casinos. Darts is not a sport, but a waste of time, money, and energy..

competitive AI text generation in the style of conservapedia is no sport for a man

I would like you to reflect on what you could have won...

A referee might have to make a call or watch a video to see if the ball went over a line etc but that’s a world away from “well he entered this water a little bit more splashy than the last fella and his wrist was at a tiny bit of an angle so he gets a 7.4 instead of a 7.5.

Deciding whether a goal has been scored or not is a tiny part of the referee's job.  99% of the job is continuously making judgment calls about pretty much every aspect of the game.

And those judgement calls are very much open to interpretation.  Just look at the amount of time spent in any post match analysis on referees decisions.

But artistic impression is different.

While artistic impression is one thing, most sports have very stringent scoring criteria that has to be met.  If you want to talk about artistic impression then look at pretty much any breakdown in rugby.  While there are clear rules governing the breakdown you will almost never see a completely legal ruck and commentators are guaranteed to use the phrase, 'painting the right picture for the referee' at least once in any match.  Very much artistic impression.

I find the 'judged sport' arguments to be very lazy because once you start thinking about it you realise just how many sporting outcomes are entirely dependent on an official's judgment.

Why single out one particular kind of judgement you don't like?

While artistic impression is one thing, most sports have very stringent scoring criteria that has to be met. If you want to talk about artistic impression then look at pretty much any breakdown in rugby. While there are clear rules governing the breakdown you will almost never see a completely legal ruck and commentators are guaranteed to use the phrase, ‘painting the right picture for the referee’ at least once in any match. Very much artistic impression.

I find the ‘judged sport’ arguments to be very lazy because once you start thinking about it you realise just how many sporting outcomes are entirely dependent on an official’s judgment.

Why single out one particular kind of judgement you don’t like?

Sorry - this is a light hearted thread, so not going to get to bickering. But you are wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong. 🙂 Yes, interpretation of the rules and if they have been broken is a thing. But that's plain not the same as a final result that's purely a judge's interpretation of how pretty/rad the person did the thing rather than a score of goals/distance/ time/weight etc.

You say that, but…

What with molgrips alluding to the fact that people threw darts at him at uni and you can't self pleasure without rupturing something.......the big hitters are going do in my estimation.

Got to agree with convert on this one!

nearly every sport has rules, and an umpire or ref to ensure they are adhered to. In football there may be some subjective assessment of any infringement, however if that’s a barrier to it being defined as a sport then you could argue that really nothing is technically a’sport’

After all if it’s determined little Jonny jumps the gun on the way to running 13 seconds during his school sports day, surely that’s a judgement call? See also any tennis tournament that doesn’t involve hawk eye. Or cycling when Sagan barged cav into the barriers and was subsequently disqualified as the officials determined he’d been reckless

Scotroutes is correct – it should be obvious to a casual observer with a copy of the rules who won.  If it is necessary for the judge to spend years studying the art form to judge who is better then it’s not sport – although it may be a perfectly valid pastime.

Back when rugby games always kicked off at 2.30 on a Saturday afternoon, had respectable crowds and those fans decanted into local pubs just in time to see the last hour or so of Grandstand you'd have found that it never takes years studying. The rugby afficionados, who shortly before would have been bickering with each other about how rubbish each other's teams were, and let's not mention the ref, now became absolutely expert about any sport that Grandstand served up. Within minutes they'd become knowledgeable about figure skating, cross-country running, diving, bowls, anything. Just a pity that they couldn't agree on the rules of rugby as applied fairly to both teams. 😀

“an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Based on the above definition is the hunting of animals a sport?  I'm not sure the animals would agree.

We're in that weird Twilight Zone where I'm no longer sure if people are trolling or so far up their own arse they can see out their mouth....

Forget the darts prodigy, this lad is the real hero:

Tetris: US teenager claims to be first to beat video game - BBC News

Sorry – this is a light hearted thread, 

Well, it was a light-hearted thread but then one of my bugbears came up. And then it came up again.  And again. And again.

It irritates me when men (I've seldom heard a woman make this argument) unilaterally decide that anything with a judged element isn't a proper sport.  I think it's telling that many of the sports that are judged are seen in wider society as being 'for girls' whereas sports that are primarily 'for boys' have a more binary form of scoring (judging a breakdown in rugby or a tackle in football still has a form of scoring, it's just a binary 1 or 0 where a 1 allows you to continue and a 0 means it's time for your opponent to have a go).

I'm not saying anyone who holds this view is a misogynist, just that it's another example of unconscious bias used to dismiss sports where women have a higher level of participation.

It especially bugs me when people who have never competed in any type of high level sport make these sweeping judgments because, quite frankly, they aren't fit to carry these elite level athlete's bags for them.

Well, it was a light-hearted thread but then one of my bugbears came up. And then it came up again. And again. And again.

It irritates me when men (I’ve seldom heard a woman make this argument) unilaterally decide that anything with a judged element isn’t a proper sport. I think it’s telling that many of the sports that are judged are seen in wider society as being ‘for girls’ whereas sports that are primarily ‘for boys’ have a more binary form of scoring (judging a breakdown in rugby or a tackle in football still has a form of scoring, it’s just a binary 1 or 0 where a 1 allows you to continue and a 0 means it’s time for your opponent to have a go).

I’m not saying anyone who holds this view is a misogynist, just that it’s another example of unconscious bias used to dismiss sports where women have a higher level of participation.

It especially bugs me when people who have never competed in any type of high level sport make these sweeping judgments because, quite frankly, they aren’t fit to carry these elite level athlete’s bags for them.

oh, you're proper weird if it gets you that riled up! 🙂 But I think we knew that already...

For reference my default activity for thinking about 'is it a sport if it's artistically judged' is surfing. Not known to be particularly female centric. Partially chosen because I do it (badly). So am I a misogynist then? Am I displaying unconscious bias?

Oh, and if you promise not to get a stiffy (I wouldn't want to be responsible for an injury) I can send you photos of me all dressed up in GB kit from a worlds or a European champs if it allows you to be gracious enough to grant me a view 😉 . You can carry my bags too if you ask nicely.

Everyone has to figure out whether what their sport means to them.  For me it was Karate (Scottish and British Champion, 7th at U21 level at the WKF World Champs).  I was plagued with doubts about whether I was doing a 'real' sport or not but it didn't stop me training 20-30 hours per week and going up against (and beating) athletes who were vastly better funded and supported than I was.

Years later I realised the pub bores were wrong and judged sports were just as valid as any of the 'proper' sports.  And their logic used to justify how a referee getting umpteen calls wrong in 90 minutes was a 'real sport' but 9 judges with years of training judging a single routine was 'just a pastime' was laughable.  Same as your's is.

If you feel your surfing competitions aren't a proper sport then that's your opinion.   Just because your sport is judged doesn't mean your experiences are applicable to every judged sport out there.

Anyway, neither you nor I are fit to carry Simone Biles' bags and certainly not fit to say what she does isn't a 'proper sport'.

was ‘just a pastime’ was laughable. Same as your’s is.

Dude - slightly personal question - but are you on the spectrum by any chance?

You do appreciate this was a light hearted thread where no really cares about either their own opinion or that of others? Just a way to pass a few idle hours making daft comments. That seems to have passed you by. Do you struggle with human nuance a lot?

Why argue about what constitutes a 'sport' or not when it's obvious that the problem is the word 'sport' and its loose definition.  People who use language in an attempt to define and categorise what exists are thinking about it the wrong way round!

Dude – slightly personal question – but are you on the spectrum by any chance?

Possibly, but it's more that I've got an appreciation of what it takes to essentially train as a professional (and having to learn about various aspects of sports science including strength and conditioning, diet, injury treatment and prevention, and sports psychology) with minimal to no financial support and no wider understanding of what I was doing outside of the people I trained with and competed against.

Gymnasts are the most common targets of the 'not a proper sport' argument made by (mostly) men who have no understanding of the sport, let alone the training and sacrifice that goes into it even for people that are never going to end up anywhere near the Olympics.

Like I said, for whatever reason the sports with the highest participation levels for women tend to be judged sports.  When you consider the actual level of judgement calls that go into football and rugby I can't help but think this gatekeeping of 'proper sports' is rooted in unconscious bias so I don't think there's anything wrong with challenging it, even on 'light-hearted' threads.

I think what makes something a 'proper sport' or not is more tied to the competitiveness of the field.  If you can train a couple of times a week and still win the National, European, or World Championships then what you are doing is probably closer to a pastime than a proper sport.

If you have to do specific training multiple times per week in addition to S&C work as well as watching your diet for the vast majority of the year just to place in your local competitions then you are probably doing a proper sport.

Except Race Walking.  I will simply never accept a competitive form of a Monty Python sketch is a proper sport no matter how much people have to train.

I’m not saying anyone who holds this view is a misogynist, just that it’s another example of unconscious bias used to dismiss sports where women have a higher level of participation.

To the [s] man[/s] person with a hammer, everything is a nail. 

To the man person with a hammer, everything is a nail.

Since we're at the pithy quote stage of the discussion:

Stupidity and unconscious bias often work more damage than venality.

— Bertrand Russell

If you have to do specific training multiple times per week in addition to S&C work as well as watching your diet for the vast majority of the year just to place in your local competitions then you are probably doing a proper sport

Body building?

Professional skateboarders aren’t known for strict diets and training regimes. More for spannering themselves and acting like idiots. Still seen as a sport by many. Not me, I hasten to add, although I think Rodney Mullen is the most talented sportsman to ever walk roll across the earth.

I've nothing to say but we have hit a 147 break so just hoping to push it towards 180 posts

Anyone else ever regret starting a thread?

A sport has to be competitive therefore darts counts but then so would chess. Would you call a game of pick up sticks a sport? That's a good match with darts. No physical effort but a good degree of skill. Equally anything artistic isn't a sport it's an art.

Actually there are only 3 sports, shooting, fishing and hunting. The rest are modern fakes using the wrong name.

Anyone else ever regret starting a thread?

What exactly were you expecting?

I think arguing on stw reaches peak sports day. 

The competition goes round and round like a running track. 

Some put in more effort than others

Some only turn up for fun, others take it much more seriously.

There are no winners (mods excluded) 

It’s a sh!t boring pub game and nothing more.  Paint drying is far more exciting.

It would have to be some pretty ****ing amazing paint, and we're only third set in.

https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/1610623312970784768?s=46&t=We7m9sBVLviPIp_wY7u5lQ

The skill on display from both of them is absolutely bonkers!

How on earth can you be this good at 16 😳

Sport or not that final was brilliant entertainment and no one can deny that there was a hell of lot of skill shown by both players. May not take great physical actions but the control, accuracy and mental concentration has to be admired.

The skill on display from both of them is absolutely bonkers!

How on earth can you be this good at 16 😳

Indeed, although I think Little in particular, played better in the semis.
I thought it was a great watch. I'm not much of a sports person - I'd rather watch darts than many more popular sports.

I like to watch rugby, but watching the documentary 'Mud, sweat and tears' the other day, reinforced my belief that sportspeople are a strange lot!

So (genuinely) what is the appeal in watching darts? I get that there's skill involved, but there's not the tactics or strategy involved in many other sports/games. Or indeed the variety. It just seems to be the same thing over and over.

I don't know much about it so am I missing something?

So (genuinely) what is the appeal in watching darts?

It's suspenseful - the players are extremely skillful and it only takes one bad throw to lose.