Had a group conference call today. We will be looking at temporary furloughs on a large scale. People who are kept on to work from home will be most likely paid less, although this month's payroll is finalised and committed now.
It's a weird one.
Take a big pay cut but watch loads of YouTube as well as really getting into the kids home schooling (I am currently WFH).
Keep my job, which I'm not massively fond of, throughout and be paid less for the same irritations as normal.
But then these really are first world considerations. My wife is patient facing NHS and has effectively just offered herself up to redeploy from a community hospital to the pointy end. She doesn't have severe asthma, she has mild asthma, though, and struggles when she gets a cold.
Strange times.
Us self employed have higher costs than workers, we have to provide all tools and equipment, all PPE, all stationary, a vehicle, roadtax insurance ,fuel,accountancy computer, and internet access mobiles and lots more, and all legitimate claims against any tax paid for the benefit of the person previously known as TJ .
As for topping up wages of both workers and us selfies, whos going to do all the calculations,where are the qualified and trained staff going to come from and who is going to pay them and whos setting up the systems, and going to be providing the figures.
Try ringing any call centre especially hmrc, and you speak to numerous chatbots or press more numbers than a bingo player, and you might be lucky to get through to a real person who actually knows the answer to what you asked.
While all the time the bills come in, got 5 work related bills at the present time all due end of this month,and no income from work to pay them, and most of our customers are over 70 so possibly going to loose a few of them.
Then for all those furlonged or whatever, whats stopping their company taking the cash then just shutting up shop, uk recession becons on a huge scale.
OK, very long hitch ahead by the looks of it.
Just hitting the 5 week mark today, trip lengths normally 4 weeks only, risk assements to go longer.
We've been asked if we're happy to stay on, potentially another 5 weeks, although efforts are to be made to get crew out and get us home still. Earliest that may happen is mid April, and even then the incoming crew mayhave to do 14 day iso' in Guyana before joining the ship. So we may have a 10 week hitch under our belt.
Our clients program will have us working with the kit we currently have mobilised making more holes in the seabed, but after the next 5 weeks that comes to an end. Different kit will be needed for the upcoming plans, which will mean different teams needed onboard.
Normal Merchant vessels you can expect to be on for this ammount of time as a matter of course, but we're a drill ship, where the work NEVER stops. 12 hours a day 24/7. No shore leave, no bar, no lazy afternoon routines. That's why we limit the length of trip.
Mrk Seadog is being very stoic about it. Reckons it's no fun at home either, and we're probably better off separated by thousands of miles of ocean.
Looking for a silver lining is the massive chunk of leave I will have built up. Either take it as one long swing off, or lengthen my leave periods 6 off 2 on for the next few rotations.
We've shut our manufacturing and installation side today because workers can't maintain social distancing, one client just responded that they will be looking to contra charge us if we are not on site carrying out an install of theirs next week...
Wife's company has asked everyone to volunteer to a 25% pay cut. Medium / small IT consultancy & delivery company. Trying to save as many jobs as they can.
My wife’s company – a large Civil Engineering company – just announce a 1/3 wage reduction for 3 months FFS.
Whats my wife’s rights and why wouldn’t they keep them at 100% and seek Government assistance?
Basically they're doing it to retain staff. Your wife is of course perfectly within her rights to complain like mad and refuse. However she'll get her letter about 48 hours later and she'll be out of a job.
Don't worry give them about a month and they'll be laying large numbers of people off.
As I’ve been self-isolating for the last week, just in case, I’ve been out of the loop at work, so spoke to my supervisor this evening, and the site has just closed down.
Knew it was coming, all the BCA and other drivers who bring in Motability cars would be stopping, because car dealerships were having to close, and nobody would be picking up from people at home. Enterprise, who we store cars for, have been sending us endless transporters over the last few days, getting as many away as possible, and we’re pretty much maxed out for storage of those, with 500 vehicles on site now.
We’ve been guaranteed the 80% of our normal wage, and our boss is trying to get a 20% top-up; he’s helped here by the fact that we get paid for storage of Enterprise vehicles, and what we have on site at the moment is already worth a significant amount of money.
Also helping is the fact that people won’t have any travel costs, or social spending for that matter. Or holidays. It certainly means I’ll be saving roughly £70/month in fuel costs, as I won’t be driving 155 miles a week for work. Or anywhere else much for that matter, and my social spending has taken a major cut too; no pub at weekends, no gigs either.
I’m certainly feeling more positive about things where I am now, than where I was five years ago, that’s for sure.
My MD sent me over some paperwork on the mechanics of the furlough for a discussion tomorrow as we may have to do it at work.
I only skimmed it as it came just as I was finishing for the day. Can’t remember if it’s official HMRC or industry advisor but it mentions that the 80% payment is ambiguous as some people think it is based on the cost to the employer so employers NIC is added before the 80%/£2500 is applied.
They also mentioned that it’s not clear how it will be processed, possibly via the RTI submisssion, but “they are working on systems to facilitate it”. Great that’ll work well going on how well other govt systems work first time.
The grant paid will be 80% of the reference period wage, plus employers’ NIC and the legal minimum pension contributions. For example, if the 100% wages per month are £1,000 and employers’ NIC was £115 and pension contribution £30, the total cost to the employer would be £1,145. It is this amount that the grant would be payable on. Therefore, in this situation, the maximum grant would be £916 per month
pkf-francisclark.co.uk/blog/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-headlines-and-details-that-we-have-so-far/
In that case, given companies dont have to pay the PAYE and NIC straight away they'd have the cash in hand for 91.6% of the pay, but of course its got to be paid sometime down the line.
My wife’s company – a large Civil Engineering company – just announce a 1/3 wage reduction for 3 months FFS.
Whats my wife’s rights and why wouldn’t they keep them at 100% and seek Government assistance?
You can only get assistance if you fully furlough someone. Businesses often can't just shut down even if there's no new work coming in. Assuming that you can possibly furlough half your workforce then you still only get paid on average 40% of your salary bill from HMRC. Also, assuming you have a full workload now but are looking at a train wreck in a few months time when you have no new work you need to start saving. 30% cut now might turn a 3 month survival window into a 6 month survival window for example.
For many companies it will be a tough call whether to shut down completely or soldier on (assuming that can be done safely).
Surprisingly my company (scaffold firm) have been amazing. Everyone was told a couple of hours after Boris's speech monday to stay off work despite all our main contractors staying (and still) open.
Then yesterday recieved a phonecall and motivational speech that well get through it and will be furloughed from this Tuesday
Going back to the top of this thread, and whether getting forced out and to look for a new job/change career is a good thing or not.
I used to work in IT. Then I got fed up with work I found unfulfilling and left to do an MSc in Brewing. Then I ended up doing IT for a brewing company as they pay was really good and I was skint after not working for a year.
However, I still wasn't enamoured with the work, and when my contract finished in a couple of months I was going to leave and get into some brewing work anyway.
But now it looks like I *might* end up getting a few months garden leave on 80 or 100% pay - giving me time to chill and look for a new job. I have built up all my savings again from the IT job so am in an OK position to be out of work for a bit (even if it takes me 6 months to find more work).
So, this might, in a certain sense be a good outcome for me.
^ Someone mentioned lay-off clauses in contracts above. Is that key to getting the government grant? I noticed my contract has that clause in it when I had a read yesterday.
Had a read through in detail now (it was from the ICAEW) and as Ben posted, employers NIC & pension contributions are added in. It also states that the money is a grant to employers and employees should get paid as normal under employment law, unless their contracts get re-drawn. It also looks like there is scope to have people fluctuating between work and furlough as business needs dictate. It adds that staff don't have to accept furlough but then they could be made redundant.
Could get rather tricky!
@Yourguitarhero- the paperwork I've seen has no mention of layoff clauses- just references to employment law.
given companies dont have to pay the PAYE and NIC straight away they’d have the cash in hand for 91.6% of the pay, but of course its got to be paid sometime down the line
From what I've seen on the ICAEW extract employers still have to pay PAYE & NIC as they should still be paying staff. Whereas there's a VAT payment deferral, there's no mention of the same for PAYE. If you need to delay then you have to contact the usual HMRC helpline
Self employed.
After five weeks of sitting around hearing about event after event being cancelled, I've been working this last week.
Currently refurbishing a sauna with a view across the lake to the alps. Really just the three of us in there without much contact to anyone else.
Until Merkel says she will pay my rent, heating, water, gas and food bills then I'm going to carry on with working as and when I can.
There is some help available (up to 5k) but only if you're really on your arse. If you have any savings then those have to be used up before you are eligible. I'm fortunate that I've got a healthy five figure sum on my account, but that's only thanks to my lack of want. Why should I have to burn through my savings whilst the ****less who spunked their cash each month get given hands outs?
On the plus side....
The ride to work on the train is pleasant as I've pretty much got a carriage to myself. Also, all ticket controls have been stopped due to health fears for the ticket inspectors so public transport is essentially free.
Just been informed that the plug is being pulled on the project I'm on. All wrapped up as from tomorrow as the company is shutting down for a month, so they'll review it at the end of April.
So I'll be glued to the press conference later to see if us self-employed are actually going to get any assistance. I hope so (he said in an understated manner) as I'm now a gentleman of leisure, and looking forward to luxuriating on 94 quid a week Universal Credit, if the Universal Credit system hasn't completely imploded already, which I suspect it's about too.
Hey ho
Sorry if its been mentioned already but does anyone know what a 1 man ltd company falls under for any of the grants? Do I fall under self employed? Most of my income is dividends with the minimum as PAYE.
Thanks
does anyone know what a 1 man ltd company falls under for any of the grants? Do I fall under self employed? Most of my income is dividends with the minimum as PAYE.
I'm the same. Just had an email from my accountant earlier confirming dividends aren't included.
80% of your PAYE only.
Think that’s referenced in the ICAEW link above
TheBrick
Member
Lawyers will do well out of this as always!
.
.
.
..
Not all of them, my wife's a solicitor for a firm of conveyancers, guess what's happening there....
How much do you think VAT and tax are going to go up after all this?
Why should I have to burn through my savings whilst the ****less who spunked their cash each month get given hands outs?
It's always the way because it's hard to differentiate between the ****less and those in need.
Not all of them, my wife’s a solicitor for a firm of conveyancers, guess what’s happening there….
Point taken, should I say corporate lawyers? Or it's probably something more specific than that!
8 months self employed here - so no support at all. Many self employed and PAYE with salaries 2, 3 times the average income will be given up to £7500, some who have had no loss of income.
Why are the most vulnerable being forgotten about ?
seems as if the helplines are overloaded for income support or whatever its called 130,000 waiting last night to getting through, and limited to people with less than 16,000 in savings.
if youve been self employed for less than a year, nothing.
no help to pay off finance on tools or equipment, van insurance /road tax/finance/hp, or rent or other buisness costs.
Going to be a roller coaster few months,lots of companies want reopen, or be burgled.
Huge number of new signs gone up locally from security companies advising of their services, usually a man in a beat up van in a green hi viz coat.
Whats going to happen to all the new builds,will they be finished,and who will be able to get a mortgage to buy one, thousands being built locally, and all site work and builders depots closed.
Why are the most vulnerable being forgotten about ?
Which party is in government again?
Just had an email through from HMRC saying that they are aiming to get the 80% rebate system up by the end of April.
Even if they manage to do that it’s still 2 payrolls to get through with no revenue coming in.
Just had an email through from HMRC saying that they are aiming to get the 80% rebate system up by the end of April.
Even if they manage to do that it’s still 2 payrolls to get through with no revenue coming in.
Current statement is that payments are being aimed for beginning of June.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/self-employment-income-support-scheme/
Let's all take a moment to think of those less fortunate than ourselves such as Steve McNeil from TV geek-fest Go 8 BIt who instead of living it large, having beers with other IT spods, has instead been reduced by this terrible crisis to live streaming a family friendly Minecraft game on Twitch to make a living in these dark times.
It truly is the end of days.
That’s for self employed I thought. I’m a LTD co where cash in bank < wages/CT/rent/VAT by a long way! Getting scary!
Right you are then. That's the job retention scheme, but you probably know that.
It's a grant as well, as far as I know, rather than a rebate (and the website appears to be falling over a bit) and I'm creeping out of my area of expertise now 🙂
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme/
Well, I've just been put on a four-day week temporarily as of next month, along with most other staff. On the upside I no longer have to work Mondays, on the downside I no longer get paid for working Mondays.
Anyway, if Cougar is to be believed he’s now banned according to post on another thread.
I may not have been entirely serious.
8 months self employed here – so no support at all. Many self employed and PAYE with salaries 2, 3 times the average income will be given up to £7500, some who have had no loss of income.
Why are the most vulnerable being forgotten about ?
Similar story here @g5604
I don't understand why this couldn't be based upon a flat rate for all based upon number of dependents for both self employed and PAYEers, rather than a percentage of earnings for PAYEers and a different methodology for the self employed.
It seems that everyone is subsidising the earnings of people that were on very high salaries and their extravagant lifestyles whilst the likes of you and me who are setting out to create a business, not turning any profit due to buying essential tools and barely any savings (which I have for a contingency such as this) get sweet fa. We're all affected. I've had clients call to say they couldn't afford me now with them being laid off and cancelled my work.
Basing this remuneration package on percentages is patently unfair in my opinion.
Well, I’ve just been put on a four-day week temporarily as of next month
Looking forwards to seeing an extra 50% out of you. 😉
RM.
All these exceptions, basis on previous earnings and people falling through cracks etc.....
The simplicity of UBI would have been perfect.
Looking forwards to seeing...
I rather doubt that anyone is really looking forward to that.
My employer sent me home Tuesday as they closed the office. I'm on the list to possibly get a laptop to work from home, but no context or update since 10am Tuesday 🤷♂️
Quite literally living up to your username 🙂
just found out that your money put aside to pay your tax bill is treated as savings for universal credit - so not eligible for that either.
We make drugs, some of them medically critical.
I've been making the WHO hand sanitiser this week as we're running out of bought-in stuff, then get the critical worker letter this afternoon.
On holiday next week...was meant to be trail building in Tuscany.
Thought id provide an update on my post back in page 12 regarding my close friend and her work, i phoned the boss on her behalf and explained the situation, the boss has been down t'day and explained that he has furlonged 10 workers across his bakerys so far due to minimal foot traffic/sales and he is going to pay the extra 20% of pay that his staff will miss out on for however long this continues, all bakery items not sold by 2pm are made up into food parcels and given to various groups set up to distribute to vulnerable people self isolating. If/when my friend is furlonged off from work she now knows that her entire wage will be payed for however long this continues so that is a massive relief for her son and herself.
Thanks to all who contacted me regarding offers of financial help, thankfully not now needed so take care of others around you.
Nice to hear a happy ending 👏👏
Is it just me or is this support for workers not worth the paper it's written on? If businesses are allowed to go to the wall then jobs will be lost and employees won't get the 80% of their salaries because they won't have jobs. No business is going to take on debt when they're hurtling towards insolvency, and they're not going to keep on employees.
Is it just me or is this support for workers not worth the paper it’s written on? If businesses are allowed to go to the wall then jobs will be lost and employees won’t get the 80% of their salaries because they won’t have jobs. No business is going to take on debt when they’re hurtling towards insolvency, and they’re not going to keep on employees
It's almost as though money needs to be "paused" for a while. No transactions in any direction
So I got the call yesterday - furloughed after 2 whole days of WFH - most of which was spent setting up VPN and software licensing.
Company wasn't in great health anyway, and as the oil price has tanked I'm not expecting the doors to reopen again when this blows over (oil and gas equipment manufacturer).
Don't see much point looking for anything else in this climate, would be fairly mental for anyone to be recruiting a colourer-in stress engineer just now.
