Isn’t that capped so you may not get 80% of your actual salary?
If what my boss was telling me just now is right the whole 80% thing is a big scam to make the government look good and there will be a lot of people getting nothing.
I think what people are expecting and what actually happens will be 2 very different things 😡
I work as a grounds person for a care company, I was told by the Director today that I’m a key worker and have to work (I don’t mind, me and my boss work apart, we don’t mix with others and getting outdoors is good for my mental health)
So forget NHS staff, Carers, Police, Fire, food distribution, charities etc etc, the real heroes during this time of international crisis are us grounds people for keeping the grass short 🙄
MarkBrewer
Member
Isn’t that capped so you may not get 80% of your actual salary?If what my boss was telling me just now is right the whole 80% thing is a big scam to make the government look good and there will be a lot of people getting nothing.
I think what people are expecting and what actually happens will be 2 very different things
It's not a scam and the gov have been very clear. 80% of your salary capped at £2500 per month. Employers can opt to top up the difference if they want / can, but you are not allowed to actually work. This is for PAYE..
Contractors etc very different rules.
We've had to do this and with senior management taking a voluntary 20% cut but not join the furloughing process as it would screw the company.
Well that's me furloughed.
At least that's us better isolated as a household.
Mark - its capped at £2500pcm. That will cover the vast majority of people. thats significntly more than the average wage.
This is when those who are "self employed" to avoid tax find out what real life is about when they get basic SSP at £94 a week as they are not entitled to that support above
Kayak you will be entitled to SSP at £94 a week IIRC
Mark – its capped at £2500pcm. That will cover the vast majority of people. thats significntly more than the average wage.
True, but everyone's circumstances will vary. I'm lucky to earn over the minimum which helped when my wife got made redundant and couldn't get a new job that fitted around the needs of our disabled son. We can manage on my salary but if it dropped to the cap for a significant amount of time we'd struggle. If we hadn't had to spend a fair chunk to adapt our house we'd have that in reserve to cushion our selves and I wouldn't be as nervous.
TJ - don’t tar all us self-employed with the ‘tax dodger’ tag please? It’s bollocks!
I pay my tax at PAYE rates but I’ll be entitled to 94 quid a week.
The self-employed people who have registered themselves as limited companies for tax reasons are about to get an even bigger shock. When they try to apply for universal credit they will be told that if they are listed as company directors at companies house, as far as the government are concerned they are ‘employed’, whether they have an income or not, so not even entitled to the 94 quid.
It’s clear from the chancellors statement at lunchtime that there’s no desire in government to help the self employed whatsoever.
In my game an awful lot of us are freelance. We all know we’re well and truly ****ed! We’re on our own.
Without going into too much detail I'm still working (we are suppliers to the military so can stay open) but our turnover is above the 45m business interruption loan limit, the next step on from that (Covid Corporate Financing Facility) is a big step financially so everything is a bit uncertain at the moment.
And all this is nowhere near being up and running so even the people that are entitled to the 80% will have to wait for weeks yet.
It's all here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52005137
This probably explains it better, bet there will be quite a few in this situation now!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52004042
Furloughed worker as from today....hope to god the Tories make good on their 80% salary promise and that it's not for more than 4-6 weeks tbh.
benpinnick
Subscriber
We face the same problem but my solution was that I get up at 4:30 and start work at 5. I work 7 hours straight through to 12. We all have lunch together then I take over for the afternoon/dinner etc while my wife works. I put the kids to bed and then myself. Its hardly going to be a thrilling life but it seems to be working. Puts some structure in place, gives me adequate quality time to work, and my wife too. My working day is a little shorter than normal, but I think Im mainly losing out on the time I wasted 😉
Exactly what I'm doing 6 days a week.
@bearnecessities Thanks for the reply, i won't bother you with a pm as tomorrow ill get in touch with her employer to explain the situation but he is of the belief that as he is an "essential" food provider he is staying open until told to shut shop then he will implement the 80% pay rule and hand his staff over to esa or whatever is available
binners +1 re TJ's comments about self-employed.
Note to TJ - remember the 4 F's; First Find the Fffing Facts.
Nice to preach when you've got a gold-plated NHS pension.
The company I work for is now on total shut down.
The only people in the office are the print room team and one member of the
dev ops team to deal with any network issue.
Every one else is working from home.
During this lock down I'm not going to shave, by the end of this I
could look like Uncle Albert.
We're operating as normal at my work (classed as a key frontline service) but we are going to be doing very little after tomorrow as all our customers are shut. Today has been basically going to all the customers and getting their high value collections done so they can shut up for the duration, will be the same tomorrow but that should be it after then. We're going to have to send a lot of people home as we can't have 25+ people in the depot mooching around, not enough space to keep any distance in the staff areas so it'll be do what work you can then back o base, clean your vehicle out then go home. Bosses are promising to top up our wages to our contracted 39 hours provided we get all the work done and the cleaning is done, if people start taking the piss then it'll be everyone sat in their vehicle in the yard with no contact.
I'll take that scenario over what others are going through every time.
I said those that are "self employed" to avoid tax. NOt all self employed. Just those who set up a fake self employed status to avoid tax. Somewhat obvious difference if you cared to actually red. the use of the word fake and the inverted commas
People who are actually self employed is obviously a totally different case but I pay a lot more tax and NI on a much lower income than a couple of fake self employed people I know. If you avoid tax and NI thru a fake self employed status then do not bleat when you find you don't get benefits
People who are actually self employed are in a real nasty situation and my heart goes out to them. Howevert the government has made money available for them that is higher than universal credit.
Those who use self employed status to avoid tax when they really should be employed and PAYE, eff 'em
However, the government has made money available for them that is higher than universal credit.
No, they haven't! We'll be eligible for Universal Credit and that's it. After a 5 week wait. I suspect, under the circumstances and given the fact that UC was a complete shambles before this shitstorm, it'll be considerably longer.
The self-employed are being offered no additional money or aid of any sort. It's not even sure we're going to get UC. We might end up with the lower Employment Support Allowance of 74 quid a week, or nothing at all.
High earning people using front companies to reduce their tax bill are a very well-publicised but tiny minority of self-employed people. The vast majority are freelancers like me (we're 15% of the workforce). We pay exactly the same rates of tax and NI as employed people, so are presently feeling a bit miffed, to say the least.
binners
Subscriber
However, the government has made money available for them that is higher than universal credit.No, they haven’t! We’ll be eligible for Universal Credit and that’s it. After a 5 week wait. I suspect, under the circumstances and given the fact that UC was a complete shambles before this shitstorm, it’ll be considerably longer.
The self-employed are being offered no additional money or aid of any sort. It’s not even sure we’re going to get UC. We might end up with the lower Employment Support Allowance of 74 quid a week, or nothing at all.
High earning people using front companies to reduce their tax bill are a very well-publicised but tiny minority of self-employed people. The vast majority are freelancers like me (we’re 15% of the workforce). We pay exactly the same rates of tax and NI as employed people, so are presently feeling a bit miffed, to say the least.
i think this may well come down to a perception of what PAYE earners see from self employed from their own experiences, and not from facts. My view is also squed to believe that most self employed have set themselves up "tax efficiently", but im happy to accept this is my view of the people i know in an industry that is rife for it.
Im sure no-one is trying to slant anyone, but nieveity can lead to it.
Note to TJ – remember the 4 F’s; First Find the Fffing Facts.
Been here long?
Im sure no-one is trying to slant anyone, but nieveity can lead to it.
Indeed. Call me cynical, but I imagine it quite suits the government to continue this common misconception that freelancers and self-employed people are highly paid and tax avoiders.
In line with the vast majority of us, I'm neither
Will find out in the next 48 hours if I'm to be furloughed or not. I work in the Bursary of a large boarding school, no kids back after Easter means no income for the school. We've turned into a virtual school post Easter holidays so academic staff are ok, however for all the support staff it means we aren't needed - cleaners, chefs, lifeguards, the list goes on. Biggest issue is that once the bans are lifted school will need to restart so all the staff will still be required. Worrying times for all of us, especally since the School is the main employer in the town.
In line with the vast majority of us, I’m neither
I'll preface the following cheeky comment with an expression of genuine sympathy for your predicament in these troubled times....
....but...
There is however a certain irony, that after years of sitting trapped at work reading your posts about how you're sitting at home drinking coffee and listening to the radio, whilst looking out of the window and contemplating a bike ride whilst still earning a living , I now find myself sitting at home drinking coffee and listening to the radio, whilst looking out of the window and contemplating a bike ride whilst still earning a living.
It's a fair cop PP. I never claimed I had a hard life.
Welcome to my world. Enjoy! 😀
Getting back to the original point, I've got 2 jobs on at the moment. One will be finished in the next couple of days, the other is a bigger, longer-term, but in all honesty, I expect they'll be shutting up shop and that will all be put on hold before the weeks out.
So as of next week it'll be Universal Credit, at best. Something to look forward too
f what my boss was telling me just now is right the whole 80% thing is a big scam to make the government look good and there will be a lot of people getting nothing.
I think what people are expecting and what actually happens will be 2 very different things 😡
Your boss is probably being a dick / scared / anxious / completely overwhelmed. It's all very new and of course didn't have 2 years of planning to put it all in place, but basically your boss has to furlough you, no work at all and then pay you 80% of your usual salary (I don't know if that's Net / gross whether you pay tax/Ni or whatever), they then apply for a grant to recoup the cost. The only problem is that lots of employers are unwilling, or unable to keep payroll going now, as they likely not to get the grant for 4/5 weeks. Small employers have already got £10k-25K grant coming to them automatically plus all sorts of 'deals' with HMRC etc.
It's easy to knock it, but it seems the developed world has agreed to put everyone who can on pause for a few months, hoping that when it's over we can go back to normal. It's completely unprecedented so trying to equate it to the Great Depression, Credit Crunch / Great Depression etc doesn't really work because there isn't a economic problem as such to over-come, the virus goes away because we stop it spreading or there's a vaccine and we're back where we were.
Yes, there will be an increase in national debt, but that's the same globally - when it comes to economics (I'm by no means an expert, but I do find it interesting / follow it) nothing is isolated, only relative to everything else, so our national debt rises billions, well the US rises 2 trillion, France's rises etc etc - I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but fundamentally 'money' is a tool we invented for our benefit, as long as everyone agrees, we can make it do whatever we want.
I wouldn't look at the FTSE / Currency markets / value of gold / bit coin whatever and think we're going into a depression just yet, really it will boil down to how long this goes on for and the loss or production - ironically perhaps, the scale of stock piling and Government procurement over the last few weeks and weeks to come, might just keep us in the black!
Welcome to my world. Enjoy!
#binlife
. Howevert the government has made money available for them that is higher than universal credit.
No they haven't. The government has raise UC a tiny bit so that it equals statutory sick pay.
Plus you try living on 94 quid a week TJ.
Plus you try living on 94 quid a week TJ.
That'd buy a shitload of sackcloth and ashes.
😆
All the subbies on our sites are self employed via CIS so 20% gets deducted at source and the balance adjusted at the end of the tax year. If the site shuts then they're not earning.
I think this is definitely going to be a year to get the self assessment done sooner as there'll be headaches trying to suss out earned income/SSP in lockdown/80% payment got tax return time!
Anyone else of the mind that a forced change of career could be good for them in the long run? I've been in the print trade since I was 15 (52 now) and have done nothing else - and if I'm honest I'm ruddy bored of it.
Often thought about doing something else and been through the ringer over the years in the trade with many highs and lows (inc. bankruptcy 11yrs ago).
I'm a one-man-band operation and can survive for a few months but I just can't see there being sufficient work there out there when I return to keep it going long term. (I do a lot of work for pubs, restaurants and local events).
We've just been told:
"good news - you'll find out if you got a pay rise today"
"Bad news - everyone in the UK division is having to take a mandatory pay cut - oh and we don't know how much that is yet, but you'll be getting an email/letter later today...."
Anyone else of the mind that a forced change of career could be good for them in the long run?
Yes.
I was actually in the process of trying to jump ship just before all of this kicked off. Luckily I had not quite out in my notice. Lucky because I still have money coming in but still hating every second of it and feeling uterly depressed by every lunch time.
We're now the busiest we've been all year.
Between the 200+ phone calls from people struggling to WFH, and the 500 laptops which are being built and deployed over the next few days, I think I might just find time to take a sh*t once a day if I'm lucky.
The benefits of working in IT when the whole country suddenly needs to WFH. At least my job is safe I suppose!
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Kuco - yep, been here for a while so plenty of exposure to some of TJ's pointless posts; sometimes he bites at responses to his posts, other times he doesn't.
Anyway, if Cougar is to be believed he's now banned according to post on another thread.
Partially playing devils advocate here but also raising a real point on the self employed front.
Irrelevant of if you have been straight up with tax or a bit close to the wire when you are self-employed you day rate tends to be better than of you are PAYE, this is to cover the fact you have no holiday pay, no pension, no sick pay have some extra costs of running a business but also the risk of not being garenteed work.
These are unprecedented time and I think self employed deserve more than the £92 per week due to this fact but for it to be the same as PAYE removes one of the fundamental differences between PAYE and self employed. That being the price of risk due to there being no requirement to provide work.
Zero hours contracts are different as this extra risk tends not to be baked in to the rate received and if working constantly should also receive the 80% IMO.
yhe mrs is down stairs on a company conference call doesn't sound good from up here 🙁
The Brick, I kind of get that point but generally people live according to their means. If the purpose of the exercise ist to economically pause, then IMO it's fair that these people get to maintain their income level at 80%. If anything, aren't they more vulnerable than PAYE due to no benefits so require that extra help?
There's a real worry that only those who have a lay-off clause in their contract will qualify for the furlough scheme.
Most people who do not have a job in a manufacturing facility are unlikely to have this clause in their contract.
That will leave the employers in a very difficult place if the law isn't changed when the scheme goes live.
My wife's company - a large Civil Engineering company - just announce a 1/3 wage reduction for 3 months FFS.
Whats my wife's rights and why wouldn't they keep them at 100% and seek Government assistance?
RichPenny
I think more than the £92 but as the income of someone self employed is likely to be higher than their equivalent PAYE worker because of the aforementioned extra payments of no holiday, sick pay, extra costs even ignoring any extra pay baked in to the price for risk, the self employed 80% would be higher than the PAYE 80% (up to the £2.5k per month limit). Hence even ignoring any extra risk pay a lower than 80% number would be required for equivalence.
Moneybox is just starting and covering topic of the S/E.
It seems to be also covering employees..
Well yesterday we contacted our clients and explained that we would have to pull off sites (construction) as many of our site gangs travel together in the works vans, plus the welfare facilities on site do not allow for social distancing
Today once of our clients is saying we're in breach of contract and will be applying liquidated damages - utter s£$£s
Lawyers will do well out of this as always!
