[Closed] Clever logo... (well I thought so anyway)

Its the emperors new clothes guys - this stuff is far less important than you think

You've already admitted you don't understand it at all, so what qualifies you to say how important it is?

You are confusing spin, marketing and branding. Making a popular brand is TOTALLY DIFFERENT to peddling inferior product with lies. Please don't call us gullible, it's quite offensive.

Being hoodwinked into paying over the odds for something ropey is indeed silly, and yes people who do that are gullible. However branding is NOT THE SAME THING.

And the industry is not peddling lies. The branding industry helps sell product.

Let's face it, Ariel, Daz and that lot are all basically the same. If you were in charge of one of these companies, how would you try and make people buy your product? Say you'd tried to make it better, but people were still buying the same stuff they'd always bought? What would you do?

Really, it's fine if you don't get it, but just admit you don't get it and bow out, rather than telling us we're all stupid.

What if you were in charge of say Pepsi or Coke, or Marlboro or Camel? It's entirely a matter of taste, isn't it. People either like your product or they don't. So how do you increase market share?

What if you were in charge of say Pepsi or Coke, or Marlboro or Camel? It's entirely a matter of taste, isn't it. People either like your product or they don't. So how do you increase market share?

Molgrips - you keep calling me ignorant and stupid. I simply have a different perspective to you that you are unable to understand. I did not call you gullible - but your methods only work with the gullible.

Unlike you guys I do understand that what the product is is not always the same as what it is branded and marketed as.

The emperor is naked and a huge amount of us know this.

Ja ja! Tandem can't see me, Tandem is a circle jerk! 😀

Good lord.

Molgrips - you keep calling me ignorant and stupid

I'm not!

And I understand far more than you realise. But I can't explain it to you 🙂

Yes, there is a lot of emperor's new clothes. But it's much more complicated than that. This what we are trying to explain.

However you need to accept that for many of us we see straight thru it.

Wow, can you see the Source of the Matrix now TJ?
There is no spoon. Or rather, there is a spoon but only the sheeple use spoons.
Any suitably sized eating implement would be just as suitable.

..logos only need to be recognisable from a distance and tell yo uclearly who the company is...recognisable from a distance or for the illiterate. name of product.thats all a logo needs, thats all it can do

So if Bass had gone for "Bass" in plain black Courier font and a giant cartoon penis and hairy balls as a logo (easily recognisable) then it would have done just as well?

I clicked on the thread wondering how advertising could occupy 9 pages. Now I realise it's just a TJ-athon - "I don't understand it therefore it's wrong".

Molgrips thats the first admission from any of you that this is so. thank you - I feel vindicated.

DrJ - I understand all too well - I have even got Molgrips to agree.

TJ is a winker. 😈

That really is simply astonishing.

I've been trying to say this all along.

The way we normally go is, you say something, I follow on from that and say something else, but you think I'm contradicting you and keep arguing.

I'm often not contradicting at all, just developing the discussion.

And you don't really understand it at all, btw 🙂

Depends on the marketing book you read and whether you believe it without thinking, or whether there is a link between advertising and marketing budgets and sales irrespective of the quality of the product.

Actually the Coke/Pepsi thing is interesting, mostly because of the peculiarities of a duopoly. Both companies are smart enough not to compete on price (a Schumpeterian view of economics might make you think they would compete down in price till one of them went out of business) so they compete on marketing spend. Because simply (sorry TJ) the one with the bigger and better marketing sells more.

Ask TJ why he is on this forum not Bikeradar or any other, that's branding.

dfamo - I can answer that. A friend suggested it would be fun for me. I had never heard of STW before that. I have never seen bikeradar. I get enough entertainment here.

so again - nothing to do with branding, everything to do with substance

😆
But things aren't so simple, I'd be grateful if Tandem could give me his simplistic view on the Betamax vs VHS story too.

Clearly the STW forum is unique, and it has great content no matter what the branding, TJ is correct there.

The question is, would you feel pre-disposed towards buying the mag because you are a forum user?

Ask TJ why he is on this forum not Bikeradar or any other, that's branding.

dfamo - I can answer that. A friend suggested it would be fun for me. I had never heard of STW before that. I have never seen bikeradar. I get enough entertainment here.

so again - nothing to do with branding, everything to do with substance

Why did your friend come here not Bikeradar?

sweet jesus!

dfamo - I can answer that. A friend suggested it would be fun for me. I had never heard of STW before that. I have never seen bikeradar. I get enough entertainment here.

so again - nothing to do with branding, everything to do with substance

Why did your friend come here not Bikeradar?

This thread is funny. But unless TJ is really arguing that people can't form different emotional responses to different stimuli then you must call him either Troll or quite simple in terms of emotional response.

You can ask me yourselves - I am still reading this apart from don simon who is blocked 🙂 and I have to remember to unblock molgrips.

Molgrips - No - Never read it.
Again easy DrJ

jeremy is my name. I wanted to use that. someone else already had it as a log in. tandemjeremy was all I could think of - Jeremy who rides a tandem to distinguish myself from other jeremys on here.

sweet jesus!

But things aren't so simple, I'd be grateful if Tandem could give me his simplistic view on the Betamax vs VHS story too.

That's easy, Betamax was the superior format in terms of quality....oh....hang on....

binners - Member

sweet jesus!

You called, my child?

to distinguish myself from other jeremys on here

Also known as branding.

Yeah but betamax was backed by a small insignificant brand that everyone knew was rubbish.. oh wait.. hang on...

tandemjeremy was all I could think of

Obviously not true. It was what seemed most appropriate to you.
QED

Imagine how much bandwidth would be saved if TJ and Molgrips simply exchanged email addresses. 🙂

I can't work out whether this is the bestest thread everer, or a portent to the end of civilisation as we know it.

Actually I think it may be both. Well done folks. Carry on! 😀

Unlike you guys I do understand that what the product is is not always the same as what it is branded and marketed as.

The emperor is naked and a huge amount of us know this.

DrJ - Member

tandemjeremy was all I could think of

Obviously not true. It was what seemed most appropriate to you.
QED

thank you for calling me a liar. It was all I could think of at the time.

A dog bit me on a bridleway this morning, and it was off its lead. I should have kicked it harder...

[img] [/img]

It's just become a bit too similar to the last time this was done. Imagine that happening with a thread with TeeJ involved?

EDIT: I really fancy some custard, but not one straight from the packet. I want to make it from scratch.

Which thread was that dd?
EDIT: I fancy sitting on some randomly shaped things, not sure what they're called, but I feel some kind of paternal instinct coming over me, what can it mean?

Imagine how much bandwidth would be saved if TJ and Molgrips simply exchanged email addresses.

Tried that already...

don de Los simeones, can't find the link but this was a few months back - similar argument.

Interesting point on the Coke Vs Pepsi thing. If i'd been asked that question in isolation, my answer would have been along the lines of the first sip or two (so as much as you'd try in a taste test) is immediately more satisfying when it's Pepsi, but the fact it's inherently sweeter makes it hard to drink a full can where as Coke (or me at least) I could keep going and going til my teeth fell out! Pretty strange eh!

TJ, got to say that for someone so worldly wise, you have a real problem with accepting things you don't know or understand. I have some very deep and in depth knowledge on a few subjects (as I'm sure you do too), and I know very little about an awful lot. The stuff I accept I don't know much about, well I'm always keen to learn from people with more knowledge on the subjects than me. You on the other hand always seem to ascertain that despite various expert opinions, you always know best!

I've read this whole thread through start to finish, much to the demise of the last 45 minutes of my life, and at no point does molgrips have a go at you or call you stupid. He points out several times what is quite obvious, that you don't understand the topic despite your ascertations that you do. And we then also have the input from various industry specialists too!

Branding works. You may not like it, nor might I for that matter, but it does. It's very powerful too, and is more than just a logo and a font, though they're more powerful than you can imagine still! To keep arguing that your opinion is right, and the rest on this thread are wrong suggests 2 things to me. Either you're just an attention seeking troll (but then I know people that have met you and they tell me you're genuine), or you really are totally deluded and one of a kind!

And I really don't think you'll find many people on here disagreeing with me either... 😕

Tried that already...

Try again 🙂

Just punch any date and you'll get a result.

Yep, exactly the same way, people tried reason and logic to [s]explain[/s] brainwash TJ then too.

Interesting point on the Coke Vs Pepsi thing. If i'd been asked that question in isolation, my answer would have been along the lines of the first sip or two (so as much as you'd try in a taste test) is immediately more satisfying when it's Pepsi, but the fact it's inherently sweeter makes it hard to drink a full can where as Coke (or me at least) I could keep going and going til my teeth fell out! Pretty strange eh!

Cool! Still going. I was worried this would be locked by now.

TJ, is the writing below for a planet or a bar of chocolate?

[img] [/img]

And tell me whether you know the famous slogan of that company?

Thinking about this on the way home - in the UK the company that sells ice cream has a certain name, Walls. Can't remember if it has an apostrophe or not. Anyway, I have been to numerous other countries where they aren't called the same name, but have the same logo. I INSTANTLY know that I can get a certain type of ice cream from a shop that displays that sign...

Anyway, my dinner's ready!

[img] [/img]

I think someone has hijacked TJ's account. I normally see at least [i]some[/i] side of his argument, but I'm struggling this time. I declare an imposter who must now be wetting him/herself seeing how this thread is spiralling into preposterousness.

Keep it up 😀

I know the answer to the Wall's question for two reasons. I live in Spain and I know the person who introduced the product into Spain. 😀

Mmmm...quiche.

mboy - and as I keep trying to explain - its that it simply does not work anything like as well as people claim. Not that non of it works but that the importance is vastly overstated.

Tehre is also massive confusion from the marketeers beteen the inherent properties of an object and its branding and marketing - the two may be different and many folk just see straight thru that.

there is a huge reluctance for people to accept that there is a whole section of society for whom branding and marketing is a huge turn off and often a negative force.

Mmmm...quiche.

mmmm... spoons

And how would you argue the benefits of Coca Cola sold in Spain against the Cola Cola sold in the UK?

Been more than 10 years since I went to Spain, can't remember what it tastes like in Spain!

But I do know that soft drink manufacturers have slightly different recipes to suit different markets, based on years of effective Market research and tailoring the product to suit specific audiences though!

i saw this and it made me think of tj's approach to the thread

[img] [/img]

As I said before, so many people have to believe in this shit with such great passion because if 'the man in the street' caught on the whole charade would come a crashing down.

It's related to the idea that price is jeff all to do with how much it costs to actually produce something, and has, instead, become some odd definition of the 'worth' of something...

Oh, and Rapha would go bust in about 10 seconds flat...

mboy - and as I keep trying to explain - its that it simply does not work anything like as well as people claim. Not that non of it works but that the importance is vastly overstated.

EXACTLY the f*****g point TJ... It is way more effective than you give it credit for! It doesn't work on you perhaps, or you're being delusional, but you're in a small minority. You're kidding yourself you really are, otherwise why would they bother? Just open your mind for one minute, just try to see the argument from the other side. In truth, I'm a bit more like you for the most part, I tend to buy on price and specification (or taste if it comes to food) and am not all that fussed by branding, but I know I'm not normal. For a whole lot of people, branding makes a big difference, I've seen the evidence too...

there is a huge reluctance for people to accept that there is a whole section of society for whom branding and marketing is a huge turn off and often a negative force.

Not at all, cos for the mostpart, I am one of them too. But as said above I know I'm in the minority...

[img] [/img]

But things aren't so simple, I'd be grateful if Tandem could give me his simplistic view on the Betamax vs VHS story too.
That's easy, Betamax was the superior format in terms of quality....oh....hang on....

IF SOMEBODY DOESN?T GIVE ME SOME FU**ING EGGS NOW, I'M GOING ON A GODDAMMUTHA****INRAMPAGE, WHERETHEFUC*CANIBUYTHESEFUGGINGEGGS?

mboy - you don't buy into branding but you think its still more efective than I do ? Thats just a matter of opinion and I know that the vast majority of people [i]I know [/i]do not buy things because of what they are called (branded as / marketed as) but because of what [i]they are[/i].

Whether this is a majority or a minority across the population I don't know and haven't claimed to know (since being pulled up on sloppy language by druidh)but I do know it is a significant section of society and that the the marketeers on here ( with the exception latterly of molgrips) simply don't get this at all. they are unable to understand that there is another viewpoint on this.

as for all the bullshine about fonts - really - many many people simply wil lnot see this at all - this font means worthy, this one cool - thats just bobbins. People do not notivce that - its a code only known to some.

I was told early on that this was proven - I asked for the proof and none was forthcoming

Actually (IIRC) Furguson licenced the VHS format whereas Sony didn't with Betamax. So Ferguson made money selling the licence and got a huge Market share through deeper Market penetration. I don't think that example had much to do with branding, moreso marketing policies.

I was told early on that this was proven - I asked for the proof and none was forthcoming

So...erm, what does the word in my last post represent? A planet or a bar of chocolate...? And the tag line? Any idea...? After all, it is just a font.

And the Wall's logo means I can recognise their product in any country they are sold in, over other competitors. I don't need to know the name, just recognise the logo.

Frigo!

And the Wall's logo means I can recognise their product in any country they are sold in, over other competitors. I don't need to know the name, just recognise the logo.

Yup - thats waht a logo is for - we did that a while back. However the logo does not have any other inherent message which is what some people were claiming - all it does is provide a visual clue as to the product same as a name

10 pages and still going strong. This subject has certainly got eggs, and could run and run.

OH YEAH?

[img] [/img]

¡Bastid!

I'm getting bored now Jamie. maybe someone else will take a shot.

That hors[b]e[/b] is not fixin[b]g[/b] that jeep, thou[b]g[/b]h i[b]s[/b] it?

This is just attention seeking by Teej.
I say
[img] [/img]

¡Coño! I'm just talking finance on a [url= http://www.equine.com/index.html ]horse[/url] and a f****ng [url= http://www.jeep.es/ ]Jeep[/url]! My American Express is going to get [url= http://www.hummer.com/#/ ]hummered[/url]. 😥

That pasty looks lush....

Having worked in the industry for nearly 20 years I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable on the subject. Branding is part of your life on every level, whether you realise it or not. Good branding works without you even realising it, this is why large blue chip companies spend a fortune on it.

Some people on here need to accept they can learn a thing or two...

NO- THIS ONE IS BETTER
[img] [/img]

Sorry but I havent read the whole thread but I would like to add my point worthless or not. I work for a firm who manufacture hot and cold snack food delivery vehicles during a recent trial with M&S they ran our vehicle along side a competitors for 6 months. Our approach when designing the vehicle was to make the products easily accesable and on view as much as possible. They have alternated the vans week about using the same sales person, stock and route and found our van turnsover is £900+ per day. Our competitors only does £500. This tells them and us people buy with their eyes. What looks attractive sells. Things as silly as being able to see the top 50mm of a bottle of juice as apposed to just 30mm meant they sold 4 times the amount. Also M&S have the largest daily turnover of any of our 500+ customers and over 2000 vans and lastly the spend per head average is over £5. Branding sells.

Yup - thats waht a logo is for - we did that a while back. However the logo does not have any other inherent message which is what some people were claiming - all it does is provide a visual clue as to the product same as a name

[img] [/img]

M6TTF - Member
Good branding works without you even realising it, this is why large blue chip companies spend a fortune on it.

Some people on here need to accept they can learn a thing or two.

^This. Designs or concepts that seem the simplest are usually the hardest to realise.

[don't get me wrong, I loathe the pushing of needless consumption, but I'd be a fool to claim I know more about business than, say, mr Red Bull by purporting that visual brand marketing doesn't work very well]

Also M&S have the largest daily turnover of any of our 500+ customers and over 2000 vans and lastly the spend per head average is over £5. Branding sells.

Having worked in the industry for nearly 20 years I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable on the subject. Branding is part of your life on every level, whether you realise it or not. Good branding works without you even realising it, this is why large blue chip companies spend a fortune on it.

Serious question what % extra business do [would you say/guess] a good logo make a company?
look at the Olympics does the branding mean it will be a good games, a great games, would we not notice it was happening without the logos?