they have no meaning at all to me. a colour is a colour
Do you really think so?
No 'red with anger', 'white flags', blue with cold', 'black days', 'green with envy'?
No 'red for stop', no 'white as a ghost', no 'feeling blue', no 'black mood' or 'going green'?
Are you now really so sure that colour means noting to you?
they have no meaning at all to me. a colour is a colour
Lucky for you your genetic ancestors felt differently or you wouldn't be here.
'red for stop'
You forget it is TJ. He doesn't stop at red 😀
And correct me if I am wrong, but isn't 'red for stop' a worldwide thing?
FFS guys - what definition of brand do you want me to accept.
is it simply the name of the object?
Or is it the object plus all the other attribute that are not inherent in the object?
Or is it the inherent qualities of the object?
If you've got a few mins:
FFS guys - what definition of brand do you want me to accept.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/brand
It is the name (or logo, symbol, ringtone whatever) that you recognise as identifying a particular product, service, company, flavour.
The key point is recognition.
Note from OED that "branding" covers both the act of assigning a brand to something and also [i]"the promotion of a particular product or company by means of advertising and distinctive design."[/i]
So in other words, yes you need to accept all the definitions given.
Don't complain to me - go shout at an English teacher.
So TJ - are you still adamant that colour means nothing to you too?
Blue as a colour as something I see has no meaning. "Feeling blue" as a phrase does.
You are again confusing the object with its referent. I see a blue square on a wall it coveys no meaning to me at all - its simply a blue square.
this is again confusing object with referent and using a very odd definition of meaning. a mood is not a meaning. meaning cannot be "subconscious" whatever "subconscious" may mean to you
Graham - well if you use a definition of brand that is that wide it is not the definition I accepted early on in this thread.
If by the brand is working you simply mean I recognise the name then of course it works. However you are using definitions much wider than+ others on this thread
.
TJ - you've assumed that these new model Hopes are rebuildable at all - let alone with the spares you are carrying.
why?
Blue as a colour as something I see has no meaning. "Feeling blue" as a phrase does.You are again confusing the object with its referent. I see a blue square on a wall it coveys no meaning to me at all - its simply a blue square.
So a brand could use colour to convey something then yes? The word 'blue' does have a meaning to you and that can be used to the branders' advantage - they use those colour palettes to support the overall positioning of the brand. Of course any one colour has more than one meaning (as I exampled above) but there is meaning attached to them.
For example - why do you think Ecover use these colours?
[img] 
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Blue as a colour as something I see has no meaning. "Feeling blue" as a phrase does.You are again confusing the object with its referent. I see a blue square on a wall it coveys no meaning to me at all - its simply a blue square.
Wow. So you have no idea whether to press the Red or Green button on a life support machine to make it go? Do your bosses know this? 🙂
Graham - well if you use a definition of brand that is that wide it is not the definition I accepted early on in this thread.
Well that's odd isn't it, because earlier you said you accepted molgrips definition that [i]"A brand is simply something to collect your knowledge, associations and opinions about a range of products and a company. Negative, in the case of Nestle."[/i]
I'm simply saying that [i]"something"[/i] is called a brand.
I'm not sure why you find that difficult.
Druidh - sorry - that was an assumption without knowledge - I did say I did not have the knowledge to make a real decision.
If the hopes were rebuildable with the spares I had I would buy them. I would be able to tell that from looking at them.
If they were not then that factor would have to be dismissed and I would decide between the products based on making an informed choice based on other factors
Like with all hypothetical questions where I have incomplete data the only true answer is "mu"
hang on graham so you are not claiming the object is the brand - you are claiming molgrips defintion ????
Tj asked
FFS guys - what definition of brand do you want me to accept.is it simply the name of the object?
Or is it the object plus all the other attribute that are not inherent in the object? (edit - molgrips definition)
Or is it the inherent qualities of the object?
I'm simply saying that "something" is called a brand.
It is "a brand" or its "called a brand"? this is crucial. I keep asking about this
Object or referent?
TandemJeremy - Member
Blue as a colour as something I see has no meaning. "Feeling blue" as a phrase does.You are again confusing the object with its referent. I see a blue square on a wall it coveys no meaning to me at all - its simply a blue square.
Sorry, but this is absolute BOBBINS.....
You get in a car & go on a journey. It is a hire car and you have never been in that make/model of car before. You have to look how the stereo works, check which side the indicator stalk is, where the lights are, how you adjust the seat etc.
Shortly after setting off you feel a bit cold, so you want to turn the heating up. You look for the heating controls and see a fan speed dial & a temperature control dial. The temperature dial has a blue arrow facing anti-clockwise and a red arrow facing clockwise. What way do you turn the dial to warm the interior of the car up?? In the direction of the red arrow or the direction of the blue arrow??
How about when you go to an unfamiliar hotel/pub?? You go to the bathroom, urinate & want to wash your hands. You can turn a tap with a blue dot on it, or a tap with a red dot on it.....you want hot water. What tap do you turn??
They are the same thing in the case of Ecover. They made a brand that sells no-nonsense phosphate and enzyme free washing powder. You know Ecover makes those things so you go there and buy it. As do I.
Not only that, but I'm willing to bet that if he decides to buy a different type of cleaner - for dishes, or the floor, or whatever, then he will pick up Ecover first. And if he values his time he won't look further.
( Of course he will deny that he does this, but such denials no longer have credibility. )
hang on graham so you are not claiming the object is the brand - you are claiming molgrips defintion ????
I'm claiming molgrips definition is entirely compatible with my own and that offered by the OED.
Molgrips said "A brand is simply [b]something[/b] to collect your knowledge, associations and opinions about a range of products and a company. Negative, in the case of Nestle."
You accepted that.
Apparently by [u]narrowing[/u] that definition by saying that the "something" is "a name (or logo etc) which you recognise" I have somehow [u]widened[/u] it so far that you now accept my arguments.
I'm not quite sure how I did that - but yay me!
stumpy - that is a blue bit on a tap or a blue bit on a car heater. yes that has meaning. But the thing that has meaning is the "blue bit on heater control" Blue as a colour seen in isolation has no meaning
Without it being on the heater control it has no meaning. that little bit of blue plastic on a wall on its own with no control has no meaning
It's a classic example of a damaged brand influencing your buying decision.How can you claim to be uninfluenced by brands if you refuse to buy something based on its brand
Not really the company are scum and I wont buy from them if branding was so good they could change this perception with their logo or advertising or branding wizzadry. Things is nonoe of this matter they do unethical things so I dont buy them.
I offer you a Yorkie and a Dairy Milk. You recognise both and you know what they are, so branding has "worked".
Well naming has worked. I know the "brand Beyonce" but do not know what she looks like or any of her songs ditto Kate Perry [ who is married to Mr Brand though }. If you asked me if I wanted a Beyonce or a Katy Perry album I would not know which to pick despite being aware of the brand. The reason being I have no knowledge of the product unlike Yorkie or Dairy Milk
I think everyone [ except TJ for he is TJ] can see both sides of this. I think branding and marketting is quite limited in what it can achieve [ with myself] and beyond brand recognition it is largely [ though not completely] BS. The product generally matters more unless you are purveyors of tat and hype
What do you think of art, TJ? Do you find it completely baffling?
Is it all a collection of colours/textures/forms that has equal (no) utility?
What do think of music? Pointless noise?
stumpy - that is a blue bit on a tap or a blue bit on a car heater. yes that has meaning. But the thing that has meaning is the "blue bit on heater control" Blue as a colour seen in isolation has no meaningWithout it being on the heater control it has no meaning. that little bit of blue plastic on a wall on its own with no control has no meaning
So using blue on a brand selling cool boxes would work then? Yes?
Or using red on a brand selling hot chilies would work then? Yes?
Graham. go back and read it. its a crucial point you cannot seem to grasp.
Is the brand simply the name of the object or is it all the associations surround the object. It cannot be both
Guys - you are as I said right from the beginning confusing object and referent.
Tj asked
FFS guys - what definition of brand do you want me to accept.is it simply the name of the object?
Or is it the object plus all the other attribute that are not inherent in the object? (edit - molgrips definition)
Or is it the inherent qualities of the object?
Answer this one graham - until you have defined your terms we have no reasonable discussion
mu
I think branding and marketting is quite limited in what it can achieve [ with myself] and beyond brand recognition it is largely [ though not completely] BS. The product generally matters more unless you are purveyors of tat and hype
My point exactly.
But i say it better than you and can accept some of their points 😛
So using blue on a brand selling cool boxes would work then? Yes?
Or using red on a brand selling hot chilies would work then? Yes?
TJ?
MF - a colour only has meaning in context. It has no intrinsic meaning of its own
If have two doors side by side and paint one blue and one green does that have any meaning?
edit - crossed posts
mastiles_fanylion - MemberSo using blue on a brand selling cool boxes would work then? Yes?
Or using red on a brand selling hot chilies would work then? Yes?TJ?
work?
work in what sort of sense?
TandemJeremy - Member
stumpy - that is a blue bit on a tap or a blue bit on a car heater. yes that has meaning. But the thing that has meaning is the "blue bit on heater control" Blue as a colour seen in isolation has no meaningWithout it being on the heater control it has no meaning. that little bit of blue plastic on a wall on its own with no control has no meaning
Yeah........OK 🙄
What M-F says up there about cool boxes & chillies.....?
The word 'blue' does have a meaning to you
again confusing the object and the referent. what something "is" is not the same as what it is called
Blue the word is not the same as blue the colour
I think branding and marketting is quite limited in what it can achieve [ with myself] and beyond brand recognition it is largely [ though not completely] BS. The product generally matters more unless you are purveyors of tat and hype
Just like betamax was a superior product to VHS, and the fact that VHS had better marketing mattered not one jot. And CocaCola, a quality product or some of the best marketing in the world? McDonald's - yummy nutritious food or a load of crap marketed by people who know what they're doing?
TJ - an underrated intellectual or complete buffoon who markets himself as such?
TJ - in the same sense that blue and red on heating controls makes sense to you, do blue and red to imply hot or cold on products work?
What M-F says up there about cool boxes & chillies.....?
A cool box remains a cool box if its blue or red. chillies remain chillies if its container is blue or red. The colour adds no more information here - we know chillies are hot
Guys - you are as I said right from the beginning confusing object and referent.
[b]object[/b] ([i]noun[/i]): a material thing that can be seen and touched
[b]referent[/b] ([i]noun[/i]): the thing in the world that a word or phrase denotes or stands for.
Hmmmm...
A cool box remains a cool box if its blue or red. chillies remain chillies if its container is blue or red. The colour adds no more information here - we know chillies are hot
Cold water remains cold water if the little arrow is red too. Yes?
TJ, just out of curiosity, what colour have you painted the walls in your house?
Wow, can't believe you are still flogging a dead horse.
I got to page 10 and gave up.
BTW, what was the eggs thing all about??
Blue is associated with spirituality, thought, and melancholy. It’s also connected to calmness, cleanliness, and wisdom. When you feel blue or “have the blues”, you’re usually a little sad for the moment – but the blues are fleeting. This color is thought to be an appetite suppressant, because blue isn’t a natural color for fruit, vegetables, or meat (even blueberries are more purple than blue).Blue colors have the opposite effect of red colors. That is, blue causes a decrease in breathing, heart rate, and blood pressure. It’s a subduing, cool color that can appear peaceful, but may also seem sad.
Read more at Suite101: Color Psychology - How Colors Affect Mood: How Different Reds, Greens, and Blue Hues Affect Mood and Emotions | Suite101.com http://www.suite101.com/content/the-psychology-of-color-a52964#ixzz1SkdNdsyB
TandemJeremy - Member
stumpy - that is a blue bit on a tap or a blue bit on a car heater. yes that has meaning. But the thing that has meaning is the "blue bit on heater control" Blue as a colour seen in isolation has no meaningWithout it being on the heater control it has no meaning. that little bit of blue plastic on a wall on its own with no control has no meaning
You are associating the colour blue with cold and the colour red with hot.
You said colour has no maeaning to you but it must do for you to make this assumption.
TandemJeremy - Member
they have no meaning at all to me. a colour is a colour
In isollation from anything then yes its a colour or even a word but since when have you ever see a colour in complet isolation from anything.
why do you think danger sings are red not just in the human world but accross the animal kingdom.
I don't know what's happening but again I'm hungering for something that consists of a protective shell, albumen , and vitellus, contained within various thin membranes.
Cold water remains cold water if the little arrow is red too. Yes?
TJ? Keep up will you...
ach - that definitely enough.
I should have said "confused object and its name" - "referent" has too many meanings and that is well less than clear. apologies for that
The point I was trying to make is that what something is is a different thing from what something is called. teh word"blue" is not eh same as the colour "blue"
mastiles_fanylion - MemberCold water remains cold water if the little arrow is red too. Yes?
TJ? Keep up will you...
Depends? does your boiler work? 😉
what is this offend the vegan thread chocloate bars, nestle and eggs throughout
I have discounted the mention of Ecover as it does not help me make my point - it is the STW way
I should have said "confused object and its name" - "referent" has too many meanings
[url= http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/referent ]Just the one actually.[/url]
