[Closed] Casual racists

Well this topic has changed.

I shall continue to use 'black' to describe black people

Back on track now.

[img] [/img]

imagine that, looming over you....

as long as you dont blow them a kiss once they've gotten over the fact you've just cracked a few of their ribs 😯

I shall probably stop using the word 'chinky' to describe a Chinese takeaway.

That it could cause racial offence to do this genuinely hadn't even occurred to me. That said, I'm happy to bin it and move on, on the evidence of this thread.

Progress, just for those who are in doubt like Solo

Well that's very well put v8ninety and my thoughts with the exception I probably won't stop with the word chinkies for the food, although likewise I rarely use it now. Chances are though after reading this thread will probably make me self consciously stop using it without noticing so possibly mission accomplished there OP.

Hahaha Phil, that tash is gone tomorrow but it won't help.

Ta, nice to be considered progressive for a change...

But. Can I still say 'Maccys' people??? I can see how it might offend Scots (is 'Scots' acceptable? Arrghh) either through it it being a casual derogatory epithet or because it associates them with [s]lardy[/s] [s]fat[/s] [s]obese[/s] erm, bariatric Americans unfairly.

Dunno? Same as Itai, can we still use that when going for an Italian meal?

I too have always referred to chinese food as a chinky without ever meaning to be racist or offend as I merely used it as a shortening of chinese - even if I was buying a readymeal from Asda.

As a result of this thread I will desist from calling my dinner a chinky as the word obviously causes offence to some.

Up here in Huddersfield we also call Indian meals a 'mucky'. Got me thinking now, is this also a term of offence I have been using inappropriately? Anyone know? Is it used elsewhere? What does it mean?

[quote=V8]I shall continue to use 'black' to describe black people
[quote=jamie]Back on track now.

I take it from your reply you have an issue with that, and you seem to imply its somehow racist to use that term ?

But your reply doesn't really explain why ?

Is it ok to describe black people as black? I think it is, isn't it?

Ask them.

What, all of them? Are 'they' going to give me all the same answer?

Great Scott!!! Its a Northern thing, isn't it? I reckon it's all Southerners who have never heard 'chinky' as a simple nickname for a type of food, but have heard it as a racial thing. Northern(ish)ers; vice versa.

(am I allowed to say Southerner? I understand they can be sensitive but I [i]genuinely[/i] mean no offence...) 😉

[quote=Drac ]Dunno? Same as Itai, can we still use that when going for an Italian meal?

Straw poll of all Italians (in my office, so one) suggests they're not at all familiar with the term so would probably never feel it was racist. My grandfather used it as a pejorative so I assumed it was to be avoided along with some of his more "colourful" descriptions of other races. Oddly he was never discriminatory (except towards people from Lancashire), but the choice of language was certainly on the VERY far side of unacceptable today. Which is basically what we're talking about.

I'm struggling to understand what is wrong with using the word "black" to describe people with very dark skin.

e.g. http://mobo.com/

I take it from your reply you have an issue with that, and you seem to imply its somehow racist to use that term ?

But your reply doesn't really explain why ?

TBF, I took it that he meant that the thread had moved back towards the original subject. However, in the interests of the thread, I could take offence, and he'd have to take it back, and promise never to say it again...

he was never discriminatory (except towards grumpy people [s]from Lancashire[/s]), but the choice of language was certainly on the VERY far side of unacceptable today. Which is basically what we're talking about.

Same as my granddad

'when are you bringing that little darkie lad round for some grub again..?'

was a regular question, as he'd got on really well with an Iranian mate I had at school..

TBF, I took it that he meant that the thread had moved back towards the original subject.

If that's the case, then fair enough.

I read it wrong, ignore me 😉

I reckon it's all Southerners who have never heard 'chinky' as a simple nickname for a type of food

Nope - I remember it being used quite a lot when I was younger, but it has fallen into disuse because we have made progress since then.

In the "south", evidently...

Great Scott!!! Its a Northern thing, isn't it? I reckon it's all Southerners who have never heard 'chinky' as a simple nickname for a type of food, but have heard it as a racial thing. Northern(ish)ers; vice versa.

Nah I'm northern and I've definitely heard it used for both many times.

Also, how is chinky short for Chinese? Same number of syllables no?

I'm struggling to understand what is wrong with using the word "black" to describe people with very dark skin.

Not a definitive answer but a few people I have spoken to from African countries wanted a distinction between them being pure blooded as opposed to 'tainted' Afro-caribbeans (that is tainted by mixing with whites).

[quote=dangerousbeans ]
Not a definitive answer but a few people I have spoken to from African countries wanted a distinction between them being pure blooded as opposed to 'tainted' Afro-caribbeans (that is tainted by mixing with whites).
That sounds very racist of them.

I'm struggling to understand what is wrong with using the word "black" to describe people with very dark skin.

I dunno but I'm guessing in at least some cases its to do with not wanting to be defined by the colour of your skin. Probably a bit hard for white people on a majority white country to understand. Some people are quite happy to be called black though.

I don't think being racist is an exclusively white thing.

Nah I'm northern and I've definitely heard it used for both many times.

Also, how is chinky short for Chinese? Same number of syllables no?

Ah, fair enough. thought I could see a trend, maybe not.

I never said chinky was short for chinese, I said it was a nickname for chinese. To (over)use my McDonalds example, lots of people say MaccyDee's rather than McDonalds. Someone cleverer than me could probably explain why, I just accept it as a little bit of colour in what is the great tapestry of the english language.

Not a definitive answer but a few people I have spoken to from African countries wanted a distinction between them being pure blooded as opposed to 'tainted' Afro-caribbeans (that is tainted by mixing with whites).

I once asked someone online if she was black, she replied she was brown. I thought maybe she was taking exception to the inaccurate term 'black' (being brown in reality) but she meant she was mixed race. I had no idea this was used.

I just accept it as a little bit of colour in what is the great tapestry of the english language

Well quite, but the problem is that these words start off being used flippantly and with derision so they accrue baggage.

An ex gf (white) said I shouldn't use the term 'oriental' to describe people from east Asia because that was a type of furniture. Well, ok, but oriental actually means 'eastern'. And the N word is just short for negro which means black.

It's about baggage, not etymology.

Chippy is no different from Maccys is no different to Chinkys. This lunchtime I will have a Chinky. Get over yourselves. Seriously.

I don't think being racist is an exclusively white thing.

Careful now; I got told that I had 'a massive issue with the oppresion of the white man' for daring to suggest the same... (in fairness I think (hope) I was misconstrued)

So, do you think that Chinese people who are offended by the word "chinky" should get over THEM selves also? "Seriously"?

This lunchtime I will have a Chinky

i am saddened. it is considered as offensive as ****, but you didn't realise, which is fair enough, but you seemingly don't care that i and many other people are geniunely upset by it.

itai.. do you mean eyeti?

Well quite, but the problem is that these words start off being used flippantly and with derision so they accrue baggage.

Completely accept this, but to label someone (such as I, for example) as a 'casual racist' as the OP did, or a 'monobrowed person of low education' as Hora did because they weren't aware of any such baggage and use the term entirely without racist intent, now that IS offensive.

it is considered as offensive as ****,

Oh, hello OP! Even after all this, I'm fairly sure it isn't. THAT word is in a different order of magnitude all together.

thats not for you to decide is it. jesus. does it hurt you or offend you because someone else takes offence to a word you didnt think was offensive?

someone at work here asked a muslim what his christian name was. it was pointed out that some might/would take offense, and he modified his behavoir and everyone moved on.

all i know is when i was a kid and i was pinned down and had the crap beaten out of me by some kids chanting chinky bastard, i wasn't keen.

sorry if i am being too hang wringing.

and he [b]modified his behavoir[/b] and everyone moved on

Still waiting for that bit here, from some...

thats not for you to decide is it. jesus. does it hurt you or offend you because someone else takes offence to a word you didnt think was offensive?

A) I Think its for society to decide, not me OR you. Of course you can find it as offensive as you like, but that's your personal view.

B) Could you please refrain from blasphemy on a public forum. Some people may find it HIGHLY offensive...

Diversionary tactic from an unreconstructed casual racist, albeit unconciously so. Allegedley.

itai.. do you mean eyeti?

Possibly but the nickname some use for Italian food.

Diversionary tactic from an unreconstructed casual racist, albeit unconciously so. Allegedley.

My actual point is that to offend racially does not make one a racist. I'm sure that Porter_jamie holds no particular predjudice against the more sensitive members of the christian faith, but religious offence may well have been caused.

This is getting a little silly.

v8ninety. i am sorry if using that might have upset you, i wont do it again.

using chinky if you didnt know it offends people does not make you a racist, of course not.

using it after someone pointed out that some people are offended makes you a defacto racist.

Chippy is no different from Maccys is no different to Chinkys. This lunchtime I will have a Chinky. Get over yourselves. Seriously.

You can use derogatory language if you wish but dont try and pretend their is no difference between chippy maccy and chinky and **** for it makes you looke
a) stupid
b) racist
c) Both a and b

If this is how you want to be perceived then carry on...Seriously

Chink (also chinki, chinky, chinkie) is an English ethnic slur referring mainly to a person of Chinese ethnicity but sometimes generalized to refer to any person of East Asian descent. Use of the term is broadly considered offensive and has garnered a great deal of media attention.

****
(United Kingdom) used as a derogatory term directed towards South Asians (and sometimes Middle Eastern people), it is usually considered offensive when used by a non-Asian in the UK.
Chippy
A shop serving the traditional British dish fish and chips

Feel free to ignore what the words mean and carry on using them as it is only fair that you let everyone know you are an idiot and not just us

I'm now confused.

My right hand man at work is black (black Caribbean of Bajan origin). I am of mixed Irish/Romany gypsy origin with gingery reddish hair.

The other week a new starter on another floor was told to come up and see either the sales manager or the sales team leader. He asked which ones that was and was told "either the black guy or the ginger one".

Should we have been offended?

or what junkyard said.

v8ninety. i am sorry if using that might have upset you, i wont do it again.

using chinky if you didnt know it offends people does not make you a racist, of course not.

using it after someone pointed out that some people are offended makes you a defacto racist.

It didn't upset me, I was just making a simple point. (I'm fairly hard to upset, but being called a monobrowed casual racist of low education has come close). Well that's a relief Porter_Jamie, I didn't realise that I wasn't a racist until you said so. 😉 As I have previously said on this thread;

v8ninety - Member
I shall probably stop using the word 'chinky' to describe a Chinese takeaway. I probably didn't use it that much anyway (and never to describe a person; that wouldn't even have occurred to me) and when I did it would have been as a pure abbreviation in the same way as I'd abbreviate McDonalds to ‘Maccys’ every now and then. That it could cause racial offence to do this genuinely hadn't even occurred to me. That said, I'm happy to bin it and move on, on the evidence of this thread.

Should we have been offended?

I've got a Northern Irish mate that gets offended if you DON'T call him Paddy, figure that one out...

[b]Everyone[/b] knows racists come from all races, I wouldn't worry about that.

"either the black guy or the ginger one".

Should we have been offended?

The [i]other [/i]guy, it's up to him.

You, No. You have yet to achieve the right to be offended. Now close the curtains, it's sunny and you'll get burnt

I've got a Northern Irish mate that gets offended if you DON'T call him Paddy, figure that one out...

He's proud of being what he is and wants everyone to know that he embraces a little bit of banter.

Or that he's not affected by childish insults (where intended)

Good on him.

Just to clarify piemonster... tell me [i]which[/i] guy has the right to be offended? 😉

v8ninety - HTH 🙂

ps, i re read what you posted and i misread what you were on about, so sorry about that too.

No problem. Giz a hug gorgeous. 😛

Well why I admitted to using the term chinkies for Chinese food I can say one thing I am not is racist, sorry to disappoint and break stereotyping of someone who uses the word but it's the truth. I'll admit it never occurred to me that it could be offensive when talking about food and as I say I may stop using it but how likely that is I can't be sure. I am still not a racist though.

I'll admit it never occurred to me that it could be offensive when talking about food and as I say I may stop using it but how likely that is I can't be sure.

I suppose it very much depends on the company you are in at the time, now that you know that it [i]could[/i] cause offense. In a family environment, where everyone has used the word for years without any malicious intent, I guess its no harm no foul. But in any sort of public arena, armed with the knowledge that it might offend, its best avoided, it seems.

I'm just stopping saying it, its easier!

Chink (also chinki, chinky, chinkie) is an English ethnic slur referring mainly to a person of Chinese ethnicity but sometimes generalized to refer to any person of East Asian descent. Use of the term is broadly considered offensive and has garnered a great deal of media attention.

That's from the Wiki page for "Chink"

when used as the name of a type of restaurant or meal, rather than as an adjective applied to a person or group of people, the word carries no racist connotation.

And that's from the Wiki page for "Chinky"

Both selective quotes obviously as cutting and pasting the whole article would be daft.

That there wiki article about 'chinky' as in food, is quite interesting and pretty much sums up this whole thread, a damn sight more succinctly than we have!

It didn't upset me, I was just making a [s]simple[/s] daft point.

FTFY.

Should we have been offended?

Why do you feel the need to feign confusion - pretty obvious that if neither of you are bothered by being called black or ginger then there is no issue. If you were then there is an issue. Pretty simple really.

using chinky if you didnt know it offends people does not make you a racist, of course not.

using it after someone pointed out that some people are offended makes you a defacto racist.

Well, no, it doesn't. It means that you're choosing ignore the fact that someone else finds your turn of phrase offensive. There are many reasons why you might choose do this, "because you're a racist" is a possibility but it is most certainly not a "de facto" conclusion.

Whilst it's not a term I particularly like, as I've said before, it's a huge old leap from "using a word someone else doesn't approve of" to actually being racist. Being insensitive is not the same as being racist. I use the c-word occasionally, it doesn't make me a misogynist.

And anyroad. If you were racist, you wouldn't be eating that foreign muck in the first place.

And that's from the Wiki page

Not sure that Wikipedia is evidence of anything...was the last person who edited a member of the BNP? Probably not...possibly...don't know.

How does it prove that the term isn't offensive or racist?

Personally if you know that some people of a certain ethnicity would be offended if you used a term to describe a retail outlet of the same ethnicity. You can either continue to use it or not...your approach tells people different things;

A) You're a racist or a moron, or both.
B) You're neither and have learned the error of your ways.

It's your choice. Drac for example has made it clear what his choice would be, so other people can decide which of the options in A) applies to him. I suspect that a Chinese person would probably just assume he's racist, he appears to be ok with that but would like everyone to know on the forum that he isn't a racist.

"It didn't upset me, I was just making a [s]simple[/s] daft point."

FTFY.

Go on then. I'll bite. why do you think that it's daft? I though it was quite a neat little point.

Not sure that Wikipedia is evidence of anything...was the last person who edited a member of the BNP? Probably not...possibly...don't know.

Remembering back to my GCSE history*, it would be secondary evidence, and the references that it refers to would be both primary and secondary evidence themselves. I think that makes it worthy of note, at least.

*It was a while ago and I'm happy to be corrected...

I wasn't aware that ginger was a race any more than blonde or brunette and as Ive already pointed out there seems to be nothing wrong with using black either.

Ive already pointed out there seems to be nothing wrong with using black either.

But what if someone tells you that they find it offensive? (examples of which are available earlier in the thread) Should you stop using the term forevermore for risk of being branded a moron, or worse, a monobrowed casual racist?

FWIW, I completely agree with you.

. I suspect that a Chinese person would probably just assume he's racist

In my experience they haven't but this thread has pointed out that others may find it offensive and even seem me as a racist others even of none oriental origin think I am, although I suspect some are just stirring. I'm not really Ok with it as I'm certainly not racist but people have pointed out that I may appear to be if I'd continued to use it. However, like bad taste jokes, swearing and other inappropriate behaviour which we're all guilty of at times it's about choosing when to do it so not to offend others. To me that's the difference, to me a racist wouldn't care when they acted inappropriately.

[quote=v8ninety ]Ive already pointed out there seems to be nothing wrong with using black either.
But what if someone tells you that they find it offensive? (examples of which are available earlier in the thread) Should you stop using the term forevermore for risk of being branded a moron, or worse, a monobrowed casual racist?
FWIW, I completely agree with you.
Do they completely boycott the Music Of Black Origin awards and all the artists that support it - or is that OK because the word has been abbreviated? Should we therefore just call black people B's. I'm sure that would go down well.

If I went oop north and heard someone use the word in question in the manner described, I'd be a bit shocked. Then a combination of no racist behaviour and everyone else oop north using the same term would lead me to think "that's not a racist word up here". And if I suggested going to the chippy instead, and they all looked at me aghast and attacked me for using a vile slur term for Christians (Jesus being a carpenter n' all) I'd be upset, more than a bit defensive, but stop using the word.

(Until I got back home.)

all i know is when i was a kid and i was pinned down and had the crap beaten out of me by some kids chanting chinky bastard, i wasn't keen.

This whole degradation of the term racist and it's use to describe petty rudeness and name calling is what is at issue here.
Racist is the word used to describe Hitler and it's application not only to an actual race, it was also a religious group that he attempted to wipe out. So describing a name caller in the same vein is a tad overkill.

Racism isn't always to do with skin colour and imv it is part of the human condition as a part of human tribalism upon which the very basis of society is formed.

Rudeness is what is at issue here, it is no different to what some of you football fanbois call supporters of other teams if you pursue the logic of it.

We don't use the term Chinky down in this part of the world so it's obviously a more regional slang term, but it's no different to Taffy, or Jock, or Paddy or Pikey or Ginga. Or Lofty for tall people or tich for short folk, or bender and queer for gay folk, they are all offensive terms if the offended choose to take offence and they are all in daily use by lots of people with no serious offensive intent.

There's a case in the news today of some woman on a reality TV show referring probably quite innocently to one of the other contestants who she happened to admire, as thinking it was a monkey coming from the jungle, it's not clear from the pictures wether or not the guy she was referring to was black or mixed race, but she probably didn't for the first minute mean it in that context but she is now in the middle of a 'race' row for the benefit of the media and the twitterati and professionally offended.

That is the danger of all this, being rude is not the same as wiping out an entire race, there needs to be moderation in the descriptive use of the term racist and racism, casual or otherwise. If there were a greater desire for folk not to be just plain rude, or a realisation in certain terms that rudeness for ironic effect is/was part and parcel of British culture, then maybe we'd all feel less discomfort about the application of 'political correctness'.

they are all offensive terms if the offended choose to take offence and they are all in daily use by lots of people with no serious offensive intent.

davidjones15 - Member
they are all offensive terms if the offended choose to take offence and they are all in daily use by lots of people with no serious offensive intent.

Of all the stupid things I've seen here. It's all the victim's fault, is it?
It's a good job not all cocks think the same as this.

Yes if you choose to be a victim, just as I choose not to be offended by your assertion that I'm a 'cock' and will not report your post for so doing, the key to this is wether the use of whatever word you choose to insert was meant to be offensive. My point being that clearly oop north folk regularly use the word go for a chinky instead of say going for a chinese as we tend to down here, it doesn't make them racists, casual or otherwise.

igrf - in general terms I think you are correct. However, some words simply become associated with racist behaviour and so go out of use. If those that are a bit more sensitive do a little bit to promote this, it can't be a bad thing. For instance, if you moved to a village somewhre and found them using the word ****, would you still think that was OK or has that one become so obviously wrong that you'd expect everyone to know about it by now?

Why do you think you can decide who is or isn't a victim? Where's the limit? How do you decide?
I thought we left this kind of attitude back in the last century.

My point being that clearly oop north folk regularly use the word go for a chinky instead of say going for a chinese as we tend to down here, it doesn't make them racists, casual or otherwise.

Look...certain people are obviously ok with the risk of being labelled as racist. Lets just close this thread an move on.

To help here's a link that will replicate what will happen if this thread isn't closed.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/casual-racists ]Round in Circles...[/url]

Chuckling at the irony of calling someone a cock on a thread pretty much specifically about derogatory name calling...

I think this thread is done now. Pity, it was fun

Who are you Nukeproofing? You rocked up a couple of weeks ago and have since been prolific. Banned and a new login?

In all honesty, I couldn't care less about your opinion, nor your view that I'm too much of a noob to post anything.

Could I have made it any clearer that that comment was - get this - a joke.
I'd hardly call me posting an observation about school kids misbehaving abroad 'xenophobia'. How dull are you man? Lighten up seriously. Or attack the OP of that thread - he must be xenophobic too. I grew up in Portsmouth, surrounded by 'french' jokes - have you ever been to a pub in calais? They tell jokes about Portsmouth. It's not a point of grievance, it's just for a laugh.

Chuckling at the irony of calling someone a cock on a tread pretty much specifically about derogatory name calling...

Cougar - Member
I'm not sure "riff-raff" is a race, you know.

It's not a race i've heard of, imagine the 110m hurdles would be funny to watch tho.

Cock is a term of endearment in this part of the world.

Uhuh, but it's pretty clear from the context that that wasn't how [i]you[/i] meant it, was it?

Making it a whole level more offensive than the use of chinky to innocently describe a Chinese takeaway, IMHO.

[b]rac·ism[/b]
[[b]rey[/b]-siz-uh?m]
[i]noun[/i]
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

If the word being used has any of the above intent behind it, then the person using it is a racist. HTH.

Uhuh, but it's pretty clear from the context that that wasn't how you meant it, was it?

So Using Chinky to describe food, as in ordering a chinky is not considered racist (by most).

Using Chinky to describe a person is considered racist (by most).

And using the term to describe the food or person may/may not automatically mean the user is a default racist.

Gonna sleep like a baby tonight.

Could I have made it any clearer that that comment was - get this - a joke.

Aaahhhhh, The Edinburgh Defence. Bravo sir. Well played.

It's all makes sense (now you have had chance to realise how much of a cock it made you sound)

I grew up in Portsmouth, surrounded by 'french' jokes - have you ever been to a pub in calais? They tell jokes about Portsmouth. It's not a point of grievance, it's just for a laugh.

Having grown up bullied at times for being French (half, but the distinction in 70s and 80s Hull wasn't of importance) and having a mother that spoke differently to all the other women, I don't find it quite so amusing as you clearly do. Edukator makes his point badly sometimes but his point is any joke based on race, sexuality, age, country of origin etc has the possibility to upset people. Okay, you're not xenophobic or racist (I don't know you, not going to sling insults) but there's a degree of irony that you're getting upset because Edukator said you might be but don't understand why he might get upset.

Ah - he was pissed. That makes it perfectly excusable.

You are a deeply difficult, contrary human being. I know reading between the lines is not something you are particularly skilled at but I'll help you.

Edukator it seemed was looking for someone else to attack ( a mainstay of this forum) by borrowing a post from another thread and singling out the individual responsible for the post. I perceived this as being a Rather unpleasant action so in an attempt to diffuse the accusations I tried to offer an explanation of sorts. Feeble it may have been but quite frankly if it deterred the online bullying which so many of you big hitters have become synonymous with now, then more the better.

Ah - he was pissed. That makes it perfectly excusable.

You are a deeply difficult, contrary human being. I know reading between the lines is not something you are particularly skilled at but I'll help you.

Edukator it seemed was looking for someone else to attack ( a mainstay of this forum) by borrowing a post from another thread and singling out the individual responsible for the post. I perceived this as being a Rather unpleasant action so in an attempt to diffuse the accusations I tried to offer an explanation of sorts. Feeble it may have been but quite frankly if it deterred the online bullying which so many of you big hitters have become synonymous with now, then more the better.