[Closed] Casual racists

Interesting point Bwaarp. Racism, imperialism, nationalism...are they the same, intertwined, different....? Is Japan much different to others?

it was my responsibility to fit in not vice versa

No it wasn't. You just couldn't be arsed challenging prejudice.

I understand context is important...but more to comedy than racism.

@bwaarp

Stephen K Amos is not the answer to anything.

Especially humour based.

Interesting point Bwaarp. Racism, imperialism, nationalism...are they the same, intertwined, different....? Is Japan much different to others?

I do believe there can be difference, the Philippines for example is a hell of a lot more laid back when it comes to ethnicity than Japan.

If you can't mess with people's heads occasionally, what's the point of life?

DD, that's your interpretation! Given that I have to work in different countries, I would prefer to call it placing sensitivities of local contexts, cultures, norms etc above personal ones. Same as wearing appropriate clothing, not drinking etc.

DD, that's your interpretation! Given that I have to work in different countries, I would prefer to call it placing sensitivities of local contexts, cultures, norms etc above personal ones. Same as wearing appropriate clothing, not drinking etc.

That's why I wouldn't want to work in the middle east or Japan. I'm intolerant of their intolerance - those societies are utterly opposed to my own ideals. I can't stand egotistical arrogant cultures, I'm glad Britain and Germany started to an extent losing our national arrogance after the second world war ended.

Each to their own then Bwaarp? I also believe there is/can be a difference re my Japan ? BTW.

I struggle with long sentences too.
casual racism? whats that?
surely a racist by definition is malicious, calculating, intent on hurting with words or deed.

thoughtless people who say words without considering their impact cannot be called racist.

I would prefer to call it placing sensitivities of local contexts, cultures, norms etc above personal ones. Same as wearing appropriate clothing, not drinking etc.

For example i worked in a community abroad with many foreigners[me included]. One group thought it ok to beat their women[ no ownership implied]. One group obbjected. I did not put their norms above right and wrong.
I know nothing of japan so cannot comment but would not put up with racism because i was abroad.

Interesting that a woman picked up on the 'casual sexism' in my post, it took longer than I expected.

@ McHamish, I just assumed your "owner" comment was heavily sprinkled with ground irony.

+1

It was, but makes an interesting point I think.

That most of us got the irony?

Protection of the wider community? As a white teacher I didn't get any protection from the wider community, nor did my white female head of department.

So when you left the school you were still subjected to racist abuse in the street or at home, excluded from local facilities, targeted hate campaigns etc? No? Or does it serve your purpose to selectively quote to make a point as I actually wrote

but you had the protection of the wider community [u]outside that closed environment.[/u]

ie. where you returned to being one of the stronger majority.

My grandfather is the only white person on his street in Bradford, however according to the 2001 census Bradford is
74.9% White
20.5% Asian or Asian British
1.6% Black or Black British
1.9% Mixed Race
1.1% Chinese and other

So locally he is in a minority, but only locally.

Teamhurtmore, would the term used to describe you in Japan be Gaijin, by any chance? As it happens, I have a t-shirt with a rising sun on the front, and 'Baka Gaijin'* in Kanji written across it. I personally find it amusing to see Japanese tourists expressions whenever they see me wearing it, especially the cute girls. 😀
*'Stupid Foreigner', for those who don't know.

Count Zero - I though 'Gajin' was Foreign Devil?
It used to be implied as a very racist term but has kind of lost its meaning due to most westerners using it as a term of reference for themselves, I guess very similar to Gweilo here in HK or the N word in the States.

Interesting that Japan has come up, I travel out here quite a bit for work (currently in our Japanese office now), and have always said the place makes the UK look tolerant when it comes to racism.

Everyone always picks up on language as racist, but I think actions are more so and it is actions that set the Japanese seperate from the rest.

It can be difficult as a westerner out here but in the 10 years I have been coming things are improving, but it really depends how sensitive you are as to how much it annoys you.

There are a few terms that are used which are derogatory that I tend to ignore, and probably a few I don't know, no point in getting upset or worked up about it.

The tendancy to ignore anyone who isn't Japanese can grate occasionally, but generally only happens away from the tourist areas, only ever been refused service in one shop, at times people go out their way to help as they like to use the english language they have learned. Although they don't like letting westerners into their 'adult' night clubs as my colleagues found out a few years ago when they tried to drag me along to one in Tokyo one night after being on the beer most of the evening. LOL
Actually, on this trip the very noticeable difference between how the Japanese and Westerners are treated started in the Business lounge at Heathrow (a Japanese Airline). I arrived and was basically waved into the lounge, the Japanese travellers arrived and the Japanese girls working in the lounge were running after them, showing them to seats, getting them drinks etc etc.

I always just found it amusing that on a train even if the only seat available was the one next to me they would actively avoid sitting next to me, this doesn't happen so much now.

But if you are sensitive then you will struggle out here, you don't get invited to important meetings, they keep stuff from you and outright lie at times, they laugh at the crap they drop onto us as they can't be bothered as it's not for Japan etc. Just had an email on my project from one of the guys here, who speaks almost perfect english, and the email is fully in Japanese! Out comes google translate.

Most of the guys I work with are great, but you do come across the occasional one who still thinks Japan are the master race and everyone else is inferior and will quite literally ignore you or will give you some irrelevant menial tesk to complete, this is few and far between thankfully as I don't take kindly to that sort of thing so tend to tell them to get stuffed which goes down great, not. I once basically sat on a Managers desk until he acknowledged my presence and answered my question (I had been warned he was a ****).

To take teamhurtmores point about fitting in, I'm 6'4 so not that easy, but I tend to stick to the same rules as everyone else in Japan does, don't deliberatley go out to antagonise or annoy, unlike a US colleague who seemed to want to do all the don't do stuff you get told about, chopsticks in the rice bowl etc, just to wind up the locals, and make Hiroshima comments, I told him he was an arse and didn't socialise with him every again. However, I won't do something I don't agree with just to fit in, If there is something they do that is okay for Japan but doesn't meet the European way and it's a European product I'll do it our way, it almost got me banned from one of out facilities but I will explain why. Mostly it's accepted, although I'm sure they call me stuff in Japanese behind my back, I don't understand it so don't really care.

I struggle with long sentences. indeed.

[i]murdered to death[/i]
Only midly amusing as its getting so old now.

[i][b]I'd not worry about it either, but it'd be a good pointer as to whether he or she is the type of person [u]with whom I'd associate.[/u][/b][/i]
^^^ This.

If you and your peers use that type of language, then fine, get on with it.

For the rest of you whom object to that stuff. Are you for real ?.
You're complaining cos the world ain't the way YOU want it to be ?.
If the world can be a beautiful place for its diversity in some many things and so many ways.
Then it stands that there will always be those parts of it that you might not like as much. But this only illuminates the good stuff, surely ?.
No light without dark, etc, etc.

So, OP. Your [i]friend[/i] appears to be the type of person you'd rather not associate with..... So, don't try and change them. That would make you just another type of monster. Instead just jog-on and find other people to hang about with.

Threads such as this are utterly useless. Can't you lot find a better use for this place ?.

Threads such as this are utterly useless. Can't you lot find a better use for this place ?.

Which begs the obvious question...

[i]Which begs the obvious question...[/i]

[i]Jamie - Member
@bwaarp

Stephen K Amos is not the answer to anything.

Especially humour based.[/i]

Hhhmmm. Like your contribution was, err, really ACE !.
While you're here, give Phil a nudge will you. Get him to pop in on this one now and post something like [i]Ooohh, deary me[/i].

As you know, I'm not one to miss out on a laugh and special guys are so funny.
😆

Some interesting points by andermt, which to me suggests the old "when in Rome" quote. What annoys me a tad I'd when the laws of the country don't seem to apply to other cultures, whereas on some countries I'd be expected to obey their laws as soon as I crossed the border.

There have been plenty of Brits incarcerated or facing death penalties for drug offenses in the Middle East for example. In my view, you come to this/a country and accept our/their laws. If you want to be british behave in the interest out our nation at all times, take the test and welcome. . I appreciate this is a different issue but I don't understand why Britain is now trying to be all things to all men.

I guess this is post EU generic humanitarianism at work. Thing is, it doesn't - Afghanistan being the prime example of a failing attempt at westernisation of a deep rooted culture.

Chinky is a white term from a bygone era. So is Coon. Why is the former still acceptable? Because it sounds cute to some?

solo, not my friend.

it's almost as if some are offended, because i am offended.

Solo, re your previous post.

We have an easy, simple way of causing people less distress than they would otherwise encounter.
Just by moderating our language and showing others the respect we'd like to receive ourselves, we can make our world a slightly better place for all of us.
Why wouldn't you want to encourage that?

deadlydarcy - Member
You just couldn't be arsed challenging prejudice.

Junkyard - Member
depends on whether what they are doing is right wrong or just a convention really.

Which brings is back full circle to the concept of bias and perception. Of course, if we as a society are morally perfect and an example to all in tackling prejudice and endorsing what is right or wrong, then we should set about changing and educating the world to our high standards 😕 Wasn't that the excuse we used to send missionaries around the world????

Hhhmmm. Like your contribution was, err, really ACE !.

Ad hominem time already? 😳 😐 🙁 😛 😡 😀 ...etc etc

Chris Rock:

[img] [/img]

"I'm black, and man - I HATE ****s!!"

So that makes it ok to repeat/hold up as a poster-child for name calling to other races?

i experience racism on a near daily basis and have for years.

context, intent, and the beliefs held by the person saying the perceived racist things are all key i think. as one of 3 white people working for a company that is 99% differing populations from around the world (mainly africa, poland and various eastern countries) its interesting watching the racism directed at each other. the polish can be really nasty about the africans!

my boss is from zimbabwe and some of the stuff he comes out with about his employees makes me cringe. the way he treats his fellow african co-workers is completely different to the way he treats me... i get it easy compared to them!

many of my african co-workers, mainly the ones who have spent a lot of time in this country or were born here call me 'my ****' in the same way they do their friends.

then i get the racism from my patients directed towards staff because i'm white they assume i must agree with them 🙁

despite all the racism thrown back and forth, i've never heard any of them refer to a Chinese takeaway as a 'chinky' apart from one patient who has admitted to me he supports the BNP.

all that is very anecdotal i know, but whilst people are writing about their experiences i figured i'd contribute something other than 'oh deary me'.

hora - Member

So that makes it ok to repeat/hold up as a poster-child for name calling to other races?

Erm, dunno, does it?

deadlydarcy - Member
@ McHamish, I just assumed your "owner" comment was heavily sprinkled with ground irony.

McHamish - Member
It was, but makes an interesting point I think.

That racist and sexist comments are OK if they're funny?

That racist and sexist comments are OK if they're funny?

Depends on context.

Ironic and funny don't always go hand in hand.

Imperialism relies on racism to justify its ideology, the legacy of this continues in post imperialism.

Are we still talking about this? Blimey.

If you're not sure what I meant, perhaps you ought to sit quietly and contemplate what I could be referring to...perhaps put the lights off and listen to some 'mood music'.

Or read my post where I explained what I meant.

Either way's good.

For the rest of you whom object to that stuff. Are you for real ?.
You're complaining cos the world ain't the way YOU want it to be ?.

Of course, if we as a society are morally perfect and an example to all in tackling prejudice and endorsing what is right or wrong, then we should set about changing and educating the world to our high standards Wasn't that the excuse we used to send missionaries around the world????

"I'm black, and man - I HATE ****s!!"

Its interesting though we would lall laugh if he said something or perhaps Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle

However if Jim davidson said it them we would get a diferent reaction

As mentioned previously it is the intent the words convey not necessarily the actual words that matter
Ie Someoen could be racist without using racist language[ nick Griffin when he thinks he is being filmed for example] or you could use racist language without being racist [ though you would likely be inconsiderate, insensitive or ignorant]

Racism perpetuates as we don't correct others around us.

Being 'white' I've had people (usually casual strangers) mention in conversation about blacks etc. Once I stopped the fella and said 'at what point did I come across as though I have a racist attitude'? (that was on a testdrive in a Merc at a Merc main dealer).

Ex-colleague was telling me his Dad employed a lad in his garage on work experience and his nickname was ****-Pete. Poor young 16yr old lad. Hes going to grow up thinking white adult men are ****ing ****s. I didn't laugh and said it wasn't fair/out of order.

Unless you stop someone who finds it funny it'll just perputuate.

So back to the original word. If someone says 'lets have a chinky'- they are usually mono-browed, anglo-saxon of low-education trying to belittle someone.

I have two women that work for me (as in I'm their manager, nothing sinister!), one from Zimbabwe and the other from Ghana. They despise each other based purely on race and the comments that they chunter between each other are shocking. I've had to speak to them both about their behaviour in the office.

Incidentally, the girl from Zimbabwe asked me what my mum would think if I introduced her to my mum, I replied that my mum doesn't have any issues with me dating a black girl. She was massively offended as apparently she prefers to be called 'coloured' which I thought was classed as racist. Live and learn as they say...

I thought you were Jewish?

OOPS! double post

you are aware of basic universal human rights or is that just some more arrogance?

Whilst I basically agree with you the concept of universal human rights is a western construction.

You're complaining cos the world ain't the way YOU want it to be ?.

Isn't this kind of the point of democracy?

basic universal human rights

People have mentioned 'free speech' when discussing the right to use terms that others may deem racist.

As far as I'm aware free speech is only permitted as long as it doesn't contravine human rights.

As mentioned previously it is the intent the words convey not necessarily the actual words that matter
Ie Someoen could be racist without using racist language[ nick Griffin when he thinks he is being filmed for example] or you could use racist language without being racist [ though you would likely be inconsiderate, insensitive or ignorant]

My wife would still be upset if someone used the term chinky in her presence even if they didn't mean it in a derogatory way. Up until last night she had never heard the term before (in reference to Chinese take-aways), which might suggest that most people know not to use it in the company of Chinese people.

There you go.

Where do people stand on what some would call "casual racism" in banter between lifelong friends of differing races? Right, wrong, evil, ok?

Reason I ask is because we were talking about it the other week in the pub. I grew up in Luton and a few of us had a little catch up recently - we've known each other for 31 of our 35 years - I'm of mixed Irish/english/Romany gypsy blood, one of the guys is of Jamaican parentage, one of Kashmiri parentage, one of Italian parentage. As you'd expect, in the years we have known each other, we've experienced lots and had highs and lows, so nothing is taboo in conversation. Anyways, we are at a point in our collective relationship where we all rib each other endlessly about anything & everything. One of the lads jokingly said "can you imagine if someone overheard our banter" and it started me thinking. Would anyone have the right to be offended, or (as one of the others said) "they have no right to be offended as they shouldn't have been eavesdropping"?

Thoughts? I know where I stand on it.

The people who call Chinese takeaways Chinky's. Would you use that term infront of a Chinese person?

Doubt it. Stop trolling and/or grow up.

I give it 5 minutes, Woppit.