most people- not every single person in the country could get by quite well without their cars
I understand that's the line being taken by you, elf, TJ etc., but it's a completely irrelevant point to the original argument. What difference does it make to those of us who have cars (dare I suggest those of us who need cars to support our lifestyle - how exactly am I supposed to transport a 6.8m long kayak to the Lake District by public transport?) that most people could cope without cars, when assessing the VFM of public transport?
I should point out that if I exclude long trips, I've done far more transportation mileage on my bike than in my car in the last couple of months.
p.s. has anybody else spotted the silent "not" in the Tower Hamlets Assertion?
how exactly am I supposed to transport a 6.8m long kayak to the Lake District by public transport?
You wouldn't. If I wanted to go kayaking in the lakes I'd hire one when I got there. Of course it's limiting in terms of moving large objects, I find that frustrating sometimes. But then I think of Cradle Mountain 😉
Some people addressed the OP. I did when I pointed out that I can travel on a bus for less than the cost of using a car.
aracer - indeed irrelevant to the original point but a separate point made in response to those who claim they need a car and the majority of people in the country need a car as they don't have access to public transport
how exactly am I supposed to transport a 6.8m long kayak to the Lake District by public transport?
Or hire a vehicle when you need to do that
If I wanted to go kayaking in the lakes I'd hire one when I got there
Unfortunately there aren't a huge number of racing double sea kayaks available for hire in the Lake District 🙄
Or hire a vehicle when you need to do that
So would you like me to compare the cost of owning a car to the cost of using public transport and hiring a car every time I want to take a kayak somewhere? 😆
still be cheaper 🙂 or it would be if you paid the true cost of private motoring 🙂
*runs away*
would a hire car company be happy for you to put a rack on the roof?
Thats an issue with hire cars - no roofracks.
would a hire car company be happy for you to put a rack on the roof?
How would they know? 😉
How would they know?
well they seem to know about every scuff and charge you for it, so i suspect they would know and charge you accordingly.
...though it was a nice ploy to get me and TJ to argue the opposite sides!
well they seem to know about every scuff and charge you for it, so i suspect they would know and charge you accordingly
How?
(IME and that of others I've heard from they don't)
aracer, i don't know how they would know, just hire car companies have an uncanny knack of noticing things.
Anyway back to the point, so if you want to get something from a to b that won't fit in a car, such as a kayak, you can't get a hire car because you can't fit a rack to carry it?
It is amazing what you can get on public transport - I know a chap who took a windsurfer on the tube in London
Use some imagination
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/marmotfotos/5877305321/ ]0609_0369 copy[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/marmotfotos/ ]marmotfotos[/url], on Flickr
I have taken a tandem on a bus - but that was in France.
Anyway back to the point, so if you want to get something from a to b that won't fit in a car, such as a kayak, you can't get a hire car because you can't fit a rack to carry it?
Or you can, as I and several other people I've heard from have. Of course your experience of not trying to put a roofrack on a hire car clearly trumps that.
Not that I'm sure it really was back to the point 😉
Or you can, as I and several other people I've heard from have. Of course your experience of not trying to put a roofrack on a hire car clearly trumps that.
No i didn't try and put a rack on the car, i put the bike in the car, and they complained, colleagues had dents appear and got stuffed for that.
I put bikes in hire cars all the time
No i didn't try and put a rack on the car, i put the bike in the car, and they complained, colleagues had dents appear and got stuffed for that
Well how did they know you put the bike in the car (like TJ I've also often put bikes in hire cars)? I don't see how getting charged for dents has anything to do with putting a roofrack on a car.
dare I suggest those of us who [b]need[/b] cars to support our lifestyle - how exactly am I supposed to transport a 6.8m long kayak to the Lake District by public transport?
You don't 'need' to transport owt. You just 'want' to. Very different. You may think you 'need' to, but you are of course wrong.
You have the [i]luxury[/i] of owning a car and being able to transport your canoe to wherever it is you want to paddle it. You won't die if you can't do what you want to do though, will you?
Unfortunately there aren't a huge number of racing double sea kayaks available for hire in the Lake District
Diddums. Why would you 'need' a SEA canoe in the LAKE District though? I've done ok in an inflatable dinghy bought from the souvenir shop. Maybe that's cos I'm just awsum though.
Elf now you are losing it big style! I mean so why should someone who goes to work and works hard not have things? I mean I don't need a lot of things. I could live in a bedsit and survive on two slices of toast a day. But I don't want to and so don't Millions of other people thank you very much. This is a first world country not the deepest part of Vietnam! Cars are great things they open up new hobbies and social aspects. The wheel as been invented and your never going to be able to go back.
If you choose to live without a car that's cool but If you can afford one why would you not have one! If I could afford a fridge why would I not have one or a washing machine, or TV. I mean if you can't afford one because its a drain on your income fair enough or if you are a hippy tree huger who eats lettuce again fair enough. Those are valid reason for not having one. But to say you don't have to do things like sports, hobbies, social etc Then not have a car to justify you can live without one seems a bit daft to me.
I'd already admitted it's a lifestyle choice to go kayaking - just the same as most* people on here go mountain biking as a lifestyle choice. Or do you think your lifestyle choice is more important than mine? Meanwhile I don't suppose you'd have got on very well in your inflatable in the middle of a lake getting hit by two big washes from steamers coming at you from different directions at the same time. Even your awesomeness might not have been up to that. Not to mention that you can get some pretty wild conditions on 9 mile long lakes. I'm guessing that stuck in that there Lahndahn you're not that up on the geography of far away places like the Lake District either - it does have rather a lot of coastline you can go sea kayaking from!
Of course the Lake District isn't the only place I go kayaking - really, really wouldn't fancy being out in an inflatable in some of the conditions I've been out in recently. Face it, elf, the Tower Hamlets Assertion fails - you're wrong.
* very hesitant to suggest all
The fact the tax payer / government subsidise the rail network to the tune of £5-6 Billion a year makes me sad!
Makes me sad to, I've never understood why 'for profit' companies get subsidised.
Too much to read up there, so I'm not sure where the posts gone. However myself and Mrs O lived in cities until our late twenties and neither of us needed cars (London & Leeds) Since moving out into a Bedfordshire town we need a car each. Public transport here is random and expensive and anyone using the public transport system here needs a car or a car driver as back up on an almost daily basis.
And neither of us work nine to five, my wife can get a bus to work but not one back.
I live fairly close to my office (probably closer than most on here who're advocating moving closer to work) however one thing I've never done so far is commute those 3.5 miles by public transport. The reason is that I'd have to take two buses plus still have to walk a fair distance at one end, making it significantly slower than most other methods available. Taking the bus isn't even that cheap, working out at 37p per mile. That's cheaper than the 46p per mile my not exactly fuel efficient car costs to run, but not cheap enough for the saving to be worthwhile given the time it'd cost me (30-40 minutes per day at least).
I don't always drive - I cycle sometimes, occasionally run in and also have walked on occasion.
Question for TJ, Elf etc. Do you enjoy driving? I don't mean tolerate; I mean really genuinely [i]enjoy [/i]it. I do. I'm lucky in that I don't have a tedious commute sat in traffic. Most of my driving is on country A and B roads with fab views. I enjoy accelerating out of a sweeping bend or even just cruising through the Derbyshire Dales. I often get as much pleasure out of it as riding my bike. Driving 4 hours to Edinburgh through those fab hills? Love it. What's not to like?*
My family has been down to 1 car for the last month. Have we "needed" the second car? Nope, we've managed alright. I'm usually late for work every time the kids get walked to nursery, but that's a small price to pay for a fab stroll with my kids in the morning. However I'm looking forward to getting a second car again just like I enjoy having more than one bike. If public transport was cheaper and easier I'd still own a car because it is more FUN 😀
* traffic jams exempt
that's a small price to pay for a fab stroll with my kids in the morning.
haha, wait until about middle of October, won't be so fab then! Still, well done. 😀 Made a huge difference financially when we went down from 2 to 1 car for very little practical bother, particularly when mrs j also started riding to work. (again, buses and nursing/shift work not really compatible outside really big cities: unless you live right in the city centre)
wait until about middle of October, won't be so fab then!
October will be OK, it will be dreary dull and wet November - officially the most miserable month ever - that will test my resolve. Can't wait 😕
If you choose to live without a car that's cool but If you can afford one why would you not have one! If I could afford a fridge why would I not have one or a washing machine, or TV. I mean if you can't afford one because its a drain on your income fair enough
It's a drain on your income too, you just accept it as a given like paying the mortgage. I don't accept it and traded the inconvenience of not having a car for a month in Australia. I'm happy with that trade.
To examine your examples, owning a fridge has cost me maybe £200 quid over 10 years plus electric. Cost/benefit means owning one is utterly sensible. Washing Mashine would be maybe £500, equally sensible. I don't have a TV, but a big monitor is c. £300, worth it for me. A car over 10 years will be what, £20k? Not worth it for me, I prefer to spend that money on other things.
So what's the cost of public transport over 10 years?
Twelve pounds and thirty-two pence.
Hands up who thinks elf is wrong.
aracer - In my case I believe I have saved a thjousand or two a year for 30 years. (at todays prices) thats money worth having
I certainly spend less on public transport, hire cars and taxis that owning a car would cost me. No doubt at all.
