[Closed] Building rest into your training?

Rest. That's when you don't train for a day or two.

I know it's a major challenge for you. Maybe get a book or some DVDs or something to help.

Personally I find a week of inactivity really helps, but that's more than many coaches recommend I think. Certianly 2-4 days really helps, much more than one.

Rest on the bike by going slow

no rest/recovery means no time to make the adaptations that the training is supposed to cause.

That's when you don't train for a day or two.

God it sounds horrible 🙂

iDave... I can recover by going slow though, surely? Like what Barry says.

Cor blimy, I wish I could manage enough consistency in training to need to build rest periods in!

I've recently been bombing around London as fast as I can as training. It's surprising how a 5-7 mile ride can leave you tired in the legs. I've noticed that if I don't take a 2-3 day rest period (and eat some carbs) I still feel achey and slow, but if I do I come back full of fastness.

I can recover by going slow though, surely?

Mate, you don't need training advice, you need therapy.

LOL! I need to exercise more 🙂

If you want to get fitter then train smarter, not more. However if you just want to be exercising, then knock yourself out.

[i]Mate, you don't need training advice, you need therapy.[/i]

Now that I agree with, 100 percent !.
😉

Anyway, hello chaps.

Good weekend ?.

If you want to get fitter then train smarter, not more

These, of course, can be one of the same.

To quote my man Buzz...

[i]I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises. Buzz Aldrin US astronaut[/i]

Not really. If you train to much you put too great a load on your system and it hasn't the energy or time to build itself up in response to what you do do. And fatigue stops you doing speed work properly at 100%

Do you bother?

It's the only bit I bother with!

Training's just another form of cheating, like doping. I prefer to race untainted by such things.

How do you know what "too great" is though?

Still, I'm trying to research rest... I want to know what others do.

I've been reading "The rider" by Tim Krabbe.
I'm almost finished, I've reached the part where...

Anyway, its a good read. TSY, you could read that and it might almost feel like you were in that race, or on a training ride.
But while you're sitting still [s]resting[/s] reading.

I've recently been bombing around London as fast as I can as training. It's surprising how a 5-7 mile ride can leave you tired in the legs.

that's not training.

just do different exercises each day, that way every day is a rest day for at least one muscle group 8)

pretty sure you're kinda doing that with gym stuff, but maybe not with swimming?

I do.
Monday - [b]Rest[/b]
Tuesday - Turbo
Wednesday - Moderate road ride
Thursday - Team Training or turbo
Friday - [b]Rest[/b]
Saturday - Long ride 2-3+ hours
Sunday - Same as Saturday unless racing.

[i]just do different exercises each day, that way every day is a rest day for at least one muscle group

pretty sure you're kinda doing that with gym stuff, but maybe not with swimming?
[/i]

Not sure about that. Its not just about muscles is it.
Its the recovery systems in the backround so to say.
When you recover all manner of processes are in action, no matter which particular muscle group you've focused on.
imo.
🙂

A good way of doing it is 3 weeks with increasing load, then a 4th week at 50-60% training load. During the hard weeks 1 day off and one recovery ride works well for me. If you ae a bit older (maybe >40) you can do 2 on, 1 off.

Just keep an eye out for over/under doing it. If you are honest with yourself you normally know when to rest.

that's not training

No? Why's that then?

[img] [/img]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

"A good way of doing it is 3 weeks with increasing load, then a 4th week at 50-60% training load."

This is sort of what I do. I think I need to go harder on my hard weeks and easier on my easy week.

I think listening to the body is key... I rested yesterday afternoon as I was shattered, didn't see any point in going out even if it was just for a gentle pootle.

If use a HR monitor you can see fatigue in the numbers. Your resting rate will be up and your max will be harder to reach. Most obvious when doing back to back hard days like stage races or day after day single races.

[i]If use a HR monitor you can see fatigue in the numbers. Your resting rate will be up and your max will be harder to reach. Most obvious when doing back to back hard days like stage races or day after day single races[/i]

Is that a sky-n-trific fact ?, cos some on here don't rate HRMs, unless you're selling them, kinda, thing, like...

Anyway, is HR monitoring truely useful ?, I'd like to know, if anyone here does.

Also.

[i]3 weeks with increasing load, then a 4th week at 50-60% training load[/i]

Now this, I think, demonstrates my point about doing things your body has evolved and adapted to do, and getting something out of your body that while not specifically designed for it, can produce a performance.

I've heard a few people talk about checking resting heart rates as an indicator of revovery levels or training goals on a day to day basis.

Mine was at 50 on Saturday morning after doing Tabata intervals on Friday night.

No? Why's that then?

i guess it could be training for "bombing around London as fast as I can"
which will only ever enable you to 'bomb around London as fast as you think you can'

if that was your target (all training needs a target or it's just riding your bike) a coach would give you a structured program to enable you to 'bomb around London as fast as you can' but it wouldn't contain just bombing around London as fast as you can.

Training's just another form of cheating, like doping. I prefer to race untainted by such things.

😀

(imagines parallel universe where road race teams are busted for team car found full of HR monitors, turbo trainers and sufferfest DVDs)

HRMs tell you certain things which can be useful if you know what the data means. Like a barometer.

If you see a higher or lower hr than normal at a certain perceived exertion, then you know something's up. Higher could mean you are ill, lower could mean you are tired.

Power meter is more useful still mind. I am considering getting rid of mine... you might be interested in it.

[i]Mine was at 50[/i]

Hhhmmm.

I don't think my HR has ever reached much below 70.
Iz I super unfit then ?.
**suspects so 🙁 **

Edit; deleted - totally useless input, must learn to read properly.

which will only ever enable you to 'bomb around London as fast as you think you can

Fail on so many levels!

Coaches give you lots of different kinds of workout, some structured, some less so. Also stuff like intervals. Do you think they are solely to enable you to ride for 2 minutes as fast as you can?

I don't think my HR has ever reached much below 70.
Iz I super unfit then ?.

This is why HRMs can be bad. The numbers are not important, it's the changes in the numbers. Some people have high HRs, some low. Never compare your actual numbers to someone else's. It's like saying 'oh I'm only 5'9 so I can't swim fast'

[i]If I could afford it I'd get a powermeter[/i]

Grips, didn't, don't you have one of those ?.
If so, are they useful ?.

Yes, they are, for structured and targetted training.

Expenisve though. So unlikely to be worth it unless you are either very rich or very keen and data obsessed 🙂

totally useless input, must learn to read properly

Don't ever let that stop you on here.

Why you thinking of getting rid of it Molly?

[i]This is why HRMs can be bad. The numbers are not important, it's the changes in the numbers. Some people have high HRs, some low. Never compare your actual numbers to someone else's. It's like saying 'oh I'm only 5'9 so I can't swim fast' [/i]

Weeellll, may be, but Buzz seems to think I'm using up my heart beats too quickly.

So, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all and to let you know I've enjoyed knowing, most of y

[img] [/img]

Solo - since stopping smoking and exercising more my resting HR has dropped almost 20 BPM. I'm on a mission to get it into the 40's.

Expenisve though. So unlikely to be worth it unless you are either very rich or very keen and data obsessed

They can be hired if you don't want the huge outlay and to see whether they work for you. [url= http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/ ]Clicky[/url]

Powermeters in conjunction with HRMs are amazing. I use one for timetrials and all road training. They are awful at the same time- you cant hide from shit performance, and a ride without a powermeter on the road is not even worth doing, I just go home if my garmin runs out of battery- sad, but true.

Fail on so many levels!

that's exactly what my flatmate• said about your post!

*level 2 bmx/mtb, level 3 road and time trial, level 3 track coach. currently employed by British cycling.

HRMs can be useful, but once you've had one for a while, you begin to understand that they simply put a number to a state of exertion. You can tell that you are knackered because your HR is up for a given circumstance, but when you've ridden or exercised for a long time, you know that you are knackered anyway.

Most useful to see when you are about to go into the red; in other words, you are working as hard as you can without going into that anaerobic state where you will have to back off.

Expensive ones are a rip-off; the technology is simple, so a £15 jobby from Lidl or Decathlon is as good as a Polar one.

Handy too when you can see your team-mates, and you know he cracks at 185 bpm, turn the screw and wave him bye bye...

[i]Solo - since stopping smoking and exercising more my resting HR has dropped almost 20 BPM. I'm on a mission to get it into the 40's.[/i]

I've heard of people having RHRs of 40 something.
In your case I'd wonder how many beats I'm using up, in order to, errr, use less.

Iz confused now.

[img] [/img]

[i]and a ride without a powermeter on the road is not even worth doing, I just go home if my garmin runs out of battery- sad, but true.[/i]

Yes, sad.

[b]a ride without a powermeter on the road is not even worth doing[/b], I just go home if my garmin runs out of battery- sad, but true.

Bobbins. You've not taken any notice of the PM data in the time you've had it? Not calibrated your internal RPE scale?
I can stick the computer in my back pocket while out on the bike and make an estimate of AP and NP within 10W or so.

[i]I just go home if my garmin runs out of battery- sad, but true[/i]

I haven't brought my flame thrower with me today, but please allow me to point out that if that is true, then surely you've lost your love of cycling ?.

a ride without a powermeter on the road is not even worth doing

Utter bullshit. In fact bullshit defined.

LS.

Welcome to the planet Earth.

I'd like to take you to our leader, but one hasn't emerged yet although many have tried.

While we're waiting, can you please de-code what you just posted.

Imagine that even for an Earthling, I'm extremely dim.
😉

iamconfusedagain... you need to come for a bike ride with me when it's -4... leave your powermeter at home.

I've heard of people having RHRs of 40 something.

39, here & i'm not even that fit.

a ride without a powermeter on the road is not even worth doing

someone better tell all those old roadies.

Whats the quote about power meters?

..an amateur using a power meter is like someone employing an accountant to tell them how poor they are... or something like that.

Sorry Solo - AP is average power, NP is normalised power (uses an algorithm to determine actual stress caused based on the variability of the power output). RPE is Rate of Perceived Exertion, a scale of how hard the effort 'feels'.

If iamconfusedagain is using a PM to the level where he can't ride without it, then I'd suggest that either he needs to learn a bit more or has just become a slave to the thing. He won't be the first.

ok sorry. I meant that as a silly personal statement to demonstrate how obsessed I can get about the numbers. But it is true that if I have intervals to do I wont bother doing them without the data. My RPE 'calibration' is pretty poor during interval sets but pretty good during racing.
It is weird that since moving away from mainly offroad to mainly road, I focus on data and it makes up part of the fun. And depite the numbers confirming I am mediocre at best I love my bikes more than ever.

I focus on data and it makes up part of the fun.

I do agree with this. But I can happily (occasionally) just go out for a ride on my bike with no aim to get a PB or hit a target average speed etc.

[i]I do agree with this. But I can happily [b](occasionally) just go out for a ride on my bike with no aim to get a PB or hit a target average speed etc[/b][/i]

Dude, you do need assistance, me thinks.

Cycling just cos its there, IS the love.

that's exactly what my flatmate• said about your post!

Wow, with credentials like that I'm surprised he's so clueless!

To be fair you seem to know crap all about how I train so I'd refrain from assuming I'm an idiot if I were you.

I view the London sessions as mixed intervals. Works quite well too in conjunction with other training.

Solo... that's what night riding mountain bikes is for!

Expensive ones are a rip-off; the technology is simple, so a £15 jobby from Lidl or Decathlon is as good as a Polar one.

Assuming all you want to know is your current heart rate. If you plan to use it in a gym you'll probably want a codified signal, and being able to define limits is handy for training.

Monday is day off

Other than that I just do what I feel like, but I'm not training for anything

Wow, with credentials like that I'm surprised he's so clueless!

To be fair you seem to know crap all about how I train so I'd refrain from assuming I'm an idiot if I were you.

who said you were an idiot? i think it's you who needs to stop making assumptions.
i only have one statement to base any assumption as to how you train and that is:

I've recently been bombing around London as fast as I can as training. It's surprising how a 5-7 mile ride can leave you tired in the legs. I've noticed that if I don't take a 2-3 day rest period (and eat some carbs) I still feel achey and slow, but if I do I come back full of fastness.

if you had used 'training' language then maybe i would have made an assumption that you knew what you were doing?

I view the London sessions as mixed intervals. Works quite well too in conjunction with other training.

well there you go, looks like a training plan 🙄

[i]

I view the London sessions as mixed intervals. Works quite well too in conjunction with other training
[/i]

Again, I'm with molgrips on that.
Not that he gives a fig 🙂

BTW molgrips, caught a bit of your running thread and wanted to offer my congrats on your progress.
IIRC you are significantly faster, recently.
But then again, I'm no slouch when it comes to getting to the ATM.
🙂

[i]Solo... that's what night riding mountain bikes is for! [/i]

TSY, thats sooo spokey, its not true.
If only you knew the [i]Truth[/i]

Eh?

I've been doing the Maffetone method since Xmas. Involves no HR work over 180-AGE, meaning I've got to stay below 150. I'm mainly a runner, at first I could just about jog (10min/mile) without going over, I'm down to 8min/mile now at the same HR. I've never improved so much after years of trying sprint intervals and tempo work.

Plus it's amazing to be able to go out for a 15 mile run and still feel like running later on in the day. Never felt so good.

[i]Eh?[/i]

Sorry, sworn to secrecy...for now.
😉

Spill the beans or I might as well killfile you again.

Rule #74
// V Meters or small computers only.

Forgo the data and ride on feel; little compares to the pleasure of riding as hard as your mind will allow. If you are not a Pro or aspire to be one, then you don’t need a SRM or PowerTap. To paraphrase BSNYC, an amateur cyclist using a power meter is like hiring an accountant to tell you how poor you are. As for Garmins, how often do you get lost on a ride? They are bulky, ugly and superflous. Cycle computers should be simple, small and mounted on the stem. And preferably wireless.

However I do use a Garmin, but that's for speed/distance/hr info. And that stuff doesn't dictate my training at all really, it's just for the nerd in me when I get back home to look at graphs.

Rests are good, taking 1 or 2 days out (or even more) sometimes is great. Allows you to fix and clean all your bikes, and come back next time feeling proper strong.

*scrambles to get pitchfork*

[i]Spill the beans or I might as well killfile you again.[/i]

Well I never.

I never considered that people might killfile little ole me.

That might explain a few things then.

Anyway, allow me to land the first blow..

[img] [/img]

And you can't hit me, I'm desk chefing as we type.

Hhhmmm.

Again, I have out edit ninja'd TSY.

[img] [/img]

well there you go, looks like a training plan

Are you being sarcastic because the training plan doens't contain numbers and figures and reps and rests?

Has Solo said what he's going on about yet?

Are you being sarcastic because the training plan doens't contain numbers and figures and reps and rests?

no.

Solo: I'm currently mid way through Krabbe's "The Rider" on an extended chain of rest days - no need for old fashioned "physical" training, this is building up the neural pathways nicely.

I often wonder how far you have to have reached in cycling to warrant a powermeter?
TSY surely you know if you need to incorporate rest into your training. if you're working hard and you never feel fatigued then you surely don't need rest.
Personally I just know I have to be faster than the other racers, so how good my stats are becomes irrelevant. Having a lower resting rate or putting out more power means nowt if I still can't keep up.
Just dumped all the technology and chase 1st cats.
Technical huh!

I often wonder how far you have to have reached in cycling to warrant a powermeter?

I don't think that matters. For example, if you want to go on a base training ride, and you know where your base power is you can ride all the time at that power. That means on a three hour ride you get three hours of base training. Otherwise you'll be in and out of the zone so you might only be in it for 1.5 hours. You could double your efficacy which helps you train regardless of how fast you are.

Also, if you know what your threshold power is, you'll be able to ride at it for 30 mins or your intervals or whatever. That power will feel like nothing at all in the first few minutes, and like murder in the last few. If you don't ride with a meter you'll almost certainly go off above threshold and come in well below it even if it FEELS like constant exertion.

If you are rubbish and you train without, you'll still improve. I just reckon you might improve faster if you use power.

It can also help with pushing yourself - I think this is where I benefit from it the most. Each time I wanted to increase my 'score' so I'd push slightly harder. I'd gain a few watts each time but not blow the session by going too hard.

1 day a week is a rest day, last full week of the month is an easy week.

Nearly the whole second half of last year became an easy period, after I got sick of training. But my fitness did suffer. I pushed myself too hard for the first 6 months and the elastic snapped.

This year I intend to be a bit more scientific about it, and make sure I have easy days and weeks as well as hard days and weeks. Which is where a HRM becomes worthwhile, I find it easy to know how hard I can push myself for a period of time, but knowing how to reign in the effort on easy days is much harder.

I would like to try a power meter out of curiosity, shame the Garmin ones are going to be so expensive, I think they have priced them into the existing power meter market rather than being competitive, means they are well beyond my budget for my level of performance. I love geeky data, but that would pay for 2 or 3 weeks cycling in the sun.

Is a proper night's sleep as important as a rest day? I've read various things (maybe bro science) which say as long as you're getting enough sleep then resting while awake isn't as important.

We need to set up a fitocracy group to [s]feel inadequate compared the proper gym/bike bunnies[/s] encourage each other