[Closed] Building rest into your training?

You learn more about yourself from racing and failing miserably than from any kind of electronic equipment

**** me I must be the font of all racing knowledge then.

You're right though. I did a race a few years back and I was really hurting. I wanted to jack, but I'd never do that though I was praying for my bike to break. I swore to myself that if I didn't finish this little race I'd give it all up. I didn't and had my best year in recent history after that day.

You learn more about yourself from racing and failing miserably than from any kind of electronic equipment.

both tell me i'm a bit shit, but ones a bit less public than the other.

You're right though. I did a race a few years back and I was really hurting. I wanted to jack, but I'd never do that though I was praying for my bike to break. I swore to myself that if I didn't finish this little race I'd give it all up. I didn't and had my best year in recent history after that day.

Just think how good it could have been if you had trained properly 😉

I take a day off a week sometimes more based on resting heart rate. I'm normally 47-55bpm if I'm getting into the mid 60s I'll have a rest day, I've noticed the day after a few bevvies I'll be 70-80bpm for the whole day. 😮

There is so much more to racing than the numbers you produce...

Obviously.

However, tell that to a Forumla 1 driver. He can have all the driving skill in the world but if his car's not fast enough, it's just not fast enough. You can only make up for a poor car so much.

The power meter will not teach you how to be a great racer or how to suffer*. But it can help your training rides be a bit more effective.

* actually it can help you push yourself harder in training than you otherwise would. See my comments about chasing numbers. It's just another way of measuring a personal best, that isn't affected by headwinds or hills.

You learn more about yourself from racing and failing miserably than from any kind of electronic equipment.

Again, no-one has said that the devices are a short cut or a substitute for racing and training hard.

What are you and TSY training for?

I'm training for a full season of races. In theory. However I'll be lucky to get two races in this year, what with having new kids and all. Didn't do any last year. In reality I'll be happy with a PB at Cwmcarn this year.

However I have actually been entered into the Blenhim Tri as a team, can't friggin wait 🙂 It must've been two years since I've raced and I reckon the bike leg will be a good chance to let off some steam.

What are you and TSY training for?

More training!

Some triathlons, some running, going to get a race licence and do a bit of racing... see where it takes me.

Singletrackworld race team FTW!

Actually id be up for a team mtb event this year in between all this road.racing

'm training for a full season of races. In theory. However I'll be lucky to get two races in this year, what with having new kids and all. Didn't do any last year. In reality I'll be happy with a PB at Cwmcarn this year.

Keep at it. I had a forced break when we had kids, kept racing and collapsed one day, but that's another story. I just kept my hand in with early mornings, night rides and Turbos alone with Pink Floyd. Now I'm doing it all again, albeit much slower.
But to rub salt into the wound, I'm hoping to have a full road season, a three month XC season and a full cross season as well as London-Paris-London, Flanders, Alps and other tripe.

Oldgit - thanks 🙂 I'm trying to keep it short and intense, with one longer ride a week. I haven't done any long rides in months and months though.. hopefully when things settle down with the kids I'll feel comfortable doing it.

Mrs Grips won't hold me back but I feel bad leaving them.

Molly - I'd be up for a road blast in the valleys... or indeed off-road.

Team event... SITS?

Yeti, not this weekend but maybe next, not sure.

SITS - will discuss.

Mrs Grips won't hold me back but I feel bad leaving them

Yep know how that feels.

Molgrips, when my kids were small I sacked cycling altogether. I couldn't justify the time when I had other things more important. I ran instead, to work, in the evening, in any spare time I had. The other alternative is riding in the early morning; up at 5am, hour and a half done before work.
If nothing else, it teaches you how to ride when tired!

Above all, don't give up. The best advice I ever got was from the father of a young lad we rode with; he said "If you give up now, you'll wake up at forty odd and wonder where the hell the last 20 years went."

The kind words are really making me feel good, thanks folks 🙂

Yeah not given up - runs are easy to do (hence the running progress thread earlier), and whilst working in London I was getting some reasonable strength training out of it. I agree about not giving up - never want to do that. I'd put the kids in the trailer but I reckon they'd get pretty bored after an hour or so 🙂

I don't do "training" as such I just ride between 6 and 10 miles every day with a longer ride on days off, it works for me. I hate having a day with no bike ride, just makes me feel like a lazy fatty.

I wouldn't be able to make this weekend anyhow Molly... we can try and tempt iDave out too.

Anyway... strength training...

Is there any point in squatting and leg pressing huge weights in the gym?

I was pressing 270kg last night and kind of thought, what's the point... I only way 75kg so why lift so much... does it have a practical application in cycling etc?

I'm kind of confused. Are you really 'training' if you don't have any specific goals? Aren't you just 'exercising'? Take your question about leg pressing huge weights for 'cycling'. It depends what you're doing on a bike, what you're training for - a top track sprinter is 'cycling', so is a TDF rider. Or a downhiller, heavy leg weights might be useful for some of that. It sounds like you need to decide what your specific goals actually are and train for them. Otherwise you're just exercising aimlessly. Sorry, that's all pretty obvious really and not a 'dig'.

If you're just training for the sake of training in itself, you can pretty mcuh do whatever you want. If you're training for a goal, then you need to decide what it is surely?

"does it have a practical application in cycling "

what practical application do you think it could have, if you compare the two activities?

Is the answer that it makes it easier to push a heavy bike off you if you fall over?

iDave... I have an answer already... I want to hear others thoughts...

BadlyWiredDog, I know what my goals are, I suppose I should have asked...

'Anyone know what the strength training programs for a different elite bikers/runners and swimmers are?'

'Anyone know what the strength training programs for a different elite bikers/runners and swimmers are?'

Yes, they're very complex and individualised and then again some don't do any strength training. Endurance cycling performance isn't limited by strength, or tour riders would be hench.

Damn you with your difinitive answers! 😀

Sorry TSY, I'll try to be more vague and evasive.

So, yeah, do loads of squats and stuff with different weights and all sorts of numbers of reps and that. Plus other things.

TSY, why don't we have a better challenge - you can carry on with your no rest/lots of training, i'll try rest/using energy products/hr monitoring/road racing and we'll see who gets to 25mph quicker? 🙂

My new club has a watt test per body weight test that you need to pass to make the race squad so mustard and i will be trying out for it *excited* I'm now another kilo lighter (6kgs in total now!) so that's got to help!

❓

25mph over what distance?

[i]25mph over what distance?[/i]

I'd imagine the sortest distance possible....in order to get there first.. ?.. quickest

Is there any point in squatting and leg pressing huge weights in the gym?

I dunno. However I've noticed since doing better at running (cheers iDave) that my cardivascular capacity seems to have gone through the roof; so that I never even breathe hard when cycling as fast as I can. It's just the pain in my legs that stops me. Hence the bombing around London rides.

I thought that I might need more leg strength so I tried doing squats with my 24kg kettlebell. One is easy, after ten it burns like some steep off-road climb. Watch the knees tho.

My new club has a watt test per body weight test that you need to pass to make the race squad

Ooh.. what's the pass mark?

25mph over what distance?

I thought that I might need more leg strength so I tried doing squats with my 24kg kettlebell. One is easy, after ten it burns like some steep off-road climb. Watch the knees tho.

Ooh.. what's the pass mark?

That's a really stupid test for the club to insist on. Haven't they heard of tenacity and attitude? Do people with 5w/kg win all the races and those with less never win races? Lazy coaching.

DirtyG - it's got to be a timetrial then? No drafting etc.

[i]I thought that I might need more leg strength so I tried doing squats with my 24kg kettlebell. One is easy, after ten it burns like some steep off-road climb. [/i]

Burpees = leg strength and speed and out breath.

Kev

Hmm. I can do 5w/kg for a minute no bother.

25mph for 20 miles is hard mind. I can keep up about that pace on the flat but any junctions, traffic lights or small hills blow would cause me trouble I reckon. My best commute in Germany was about 21.5mph door to door even whilst rolling along at about 25mph on the open road.

Time trail is fine TSY - I don't draft when I set out for a fast training ride anyway and drafting doesn't count. Only issue i have is up here there's always a constant headwind, no matter what way i go/turn! Would need to be mid summer time too.

@idave, i don't know - i may have the figures wrong as i said, my head is cotton wool atm. But i'm sure they said 5 watts and something about bodyweight. I'll check.

It sounds factually correct DGOAB, just saying that it's not a great way to approach team selection.

Those sound like excuses...

Personally I think it's quite a large task.. I've averaged 22mph over 20 miles on my commute and done 10 miles at 25mph pace... although the womens UK 25 mile record averaged over 30 mph...

On roads in the real world it would be very difficult to attain TT sorts of av speeds,

My best 50TT is 1.59.03 (approx 25.2mph av) about 36miles of this on dual carriageway!

One of my regular road rides, with not many junctions and only a couple of hills would be 34 miles and if I'm going well would take me 1.53 - 1.54 so 17.8mph av or so?

Don't be too worried about peoples TT times, don't get me wrong the top boys are mind boglingly fast, but most people on here would be suprised what they could attain.

Interesting... do you mean people can go faster than what they'd imagine?

Dirty - what's your starting point?

TSY What are you training for? road races, TT's? Tri's?

On a TT specific bike, wheels etc, you would go quicker than on a normal road bike.

Dual carriagways are fast, dangerous but fast, generally good surfaces with lorries going past @ 50-60 pulling you along.

The quicker courses are flat or sometimes you start at the top of a big hill but on the way back you stop short of the hill as the rules allow for the start and finish to be a distance apart.

Tri's Tricky. I'm a fledgling in the world of competitive events but might as well put the training to some purpose.

Going to chuck in some road racing and some casual running events too.

I know I'm not the fastest in the world so just aiming to be the best I can be.

In racing terms they actually do nothing; no prizes for longest at threshold, no prizes for highest watts, you win or you don't, simple as.

There is also the idea that concentrating on the numbers means you neglect the basic skills associated with racing, the positioning, the shall-I-follow-this-move, the mind games, the ability to screw people over, the knowledge and bollocks required to sprint...

There is so much more to racing than the numbers you produce...

Totally 100% agree with this. This happened to me last year/season I was going to start racing for the 1st time and had never done any structured training. In december I paid for a coach and 2 fitness tests. I also did the idave diet

I started to get obsessed by the numbers and concentrated on the fitness aspect. I made huge gains in 5 months I thought and got excited about my numbers when looking at the hunter allen chart.

I soon realised after a few races I had some work to do. I had no race craft whatsoever. I was obsessed with the data.. my watts/kg, my threshold figure. I was beating all the guys in the club at the hill climbs and TT's yet they were getting points in races (and wins)

This year i'm doing it a lot different. i've had no fitness tests, I don't know what my threshold or w/kg is. I'm riding outside a lot more (last year i was a slave to rollers)

Off to majorca in a few weeks to get some miles in. 😀

TSY, Not sure my starting point as i've been learning bunch riding skills/tactis for the reasons Tricky outlines above so outdoor sessions have been slower than normal, and the rest has been intervals on the turbo. Can I tell you on 3rd March? I've a better idea - you can stop in at mine on your lejog ride this year and we can race each other? Whats another 20miles in the scale of things? 😀

I've no idea of my w/kg or anything else other than hr zones. I'll be interested to know when i go for the test but just because i like geeky things*. I'm not planning on actually using a power meter during my training - i'm just going to concentrate on racing, tactics and riding as hard as i can. And anything else i'm told to by the race squad leader.

2 more weekends, then its race time *scared*

*and speaking of geeky things, last night i tried beetroot juice as i've read a lot about it recently, the latest being this weeks cycling weekly. After juicing up fresh beetroot, all i can say is, it is rank! Its earthy and sour/bitter! However, i will keep with it to see if it makes a difference. 😐

I'm pretty sure it was a minimum of 5w/kg (for men) in the last minute of a ramp test on a turbo.

They seemed pretty aware it's quite an arbitrary limit for team selection. I think the problem is that it is such a big club so they needed to set something that was easily measurable and comparable, otherwise pretty much every bloke in the club will want a piece of the coaches time.

My target for this years racing is to not get spat out the back in at least one RR.

Off to majorca in a few weeks to get some miles in

I want to RR.