I only ever carried one real hatred though my life and that was what Thatcher did to the North East (i know old news) and now i have two with Brexit.
On two occasions the political class of this country has reduced my opportunity and limited my life choices. All to keep a minority well looked after.
Get a bloody grip. Jeez.
Oldmanmtb2, there's a difference, what Thatcher did was going to happen anyway, it would have taken longer, possibily been more painful and not given people a hate figure to blame for the way the world was going and their inability to keep up (Not defending Thatcher, she had a real hatred of working class people and little empathy for the effects of her policies. Despite all that she was idealogical driven, it wasn't self interest).
Brexit on the other hand was entirely avoidable, pushed solely for personal gain, be that short term political or making money from the chaos. It's also a lot less reversible.
Oh look - apparently its all the EU's fault...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/01/boris-johnson-infuriated-eu-reneges-free-trade-deal/
We'll no doubt see a lot of this narrative running over the coming months albeit with shorter words and more pictures in the Express.
Anyone seen a publication date for the potential Russian interference report?
The good news is we'll soon have a war.
That's if history repeats itself, only we seem to be the other side now.
Financial collapse.
Rise of right wing politics.
Othering of minorities or the non-pure born.
Start fights in other countries.
Up "defence" spending.
Declare war.
Rise in patriotism and suppression of opposition
Glorious victories
More glorious victories, but closer to home
Even more glorious victories, but now on our doorstep.
Oops!
we can take back control and surpass EU ideals
If you think a corner shop is going to be able to negotiate better deals with its distributors than Tesco you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
What are you taking control of, exactly?
Oldmanmtb2, there’s a difference, what Thatcher did was going to happen anyway, it would have taken longer, possibily been more painful and not given people a hate figure to blame for the way the world was going and their inability to keep up
It had to happen - but it didn't have to happen like that. It could have been manged carefully, rather than just pulling the plug.
Use intellygents to win the long game, we can take back control and surpass EU ideals over the next few decades.
Hmm. We have no trade deals currently, we only have 11 months to negotiate loads of deals, and our opponents in negotiation know this. Our main focus is on the EU and the US - both of whom are MUCH bigger and more powerful than us. They both have the power to get us to do whatever we want, because they know we NEED the deals. I don't think there's much that we produce that they can't get elsewhere; however we need what they produce (more so the EU than the US I think). Not only that, but both those parties have opposing demands, so we will be unlikely to be able to get a deal that satisfies both of them, and if they aren't satisfied with what we offer we won't get much from them.
Don't kid yourself, we are in a very weak position, not least because of the ticking clock. We aren't going to get a better deal with anyone than we had last week. Especially not the EU, because there is no better deal than being in it, and they absolutely cannot allow anyone to have a better deal than their members otherwise they'd remove their entire reason for being.
You need to look beyond flag waving patriotism and think about what's actually going to have to happen.
Am I alone in being stuck in the quandary of wanting ‘my side’ to be proved right
Maybe. I desperately want to be wrong. Tribalism is as stupid as nationalism. Politics and economics are what they are, we need to learn to understand the systems so we can make informed decisions and NOT just follow our tribe because let's face it, that's what got us into this mess in the first place.
You can probably track the North East Brexit vote right back to Thatchers deindustrialisation "policy"
Her utter hatred of Unionised working folk meant that there was never anything beyond her objective of breaking the Unions.
That was phase 1 deregulation
This is phase 2 deregulation
Phase 3 is the "final sell off"
Phase 3
At some point this gov will have to raise some serious cash(not borrow) they will have to cash in on some assets and/or turn a cost centre into a profit centre.
1. NHS
2. Civil Service
3. Public land for development
4. Licences for services (social etc)
5. Fracking (needs must?)
6. Supply licences (power water etc)
I am sure Dom has a few ideas...
Get a bloody grip. Jeez.
Can you let me know what will happen to my elderly fathers healthcare?
He lives in Spain and is completely reliant on reciprocal healthcare agreements.
Thanks.
Then, if they are one of the morons who voted themselves into poverty, it is open season.
Is that the best you can do @dannyh ?
You really are a vile individual.
Financial collapse.
That will not happen.
Financial fluctuation? Yes, but I can predict that all day long for the entire world.
Rise of right wing politics.
Yes, they will come into the open which is good and normal.
I rather they show themselves than hide their true feeling after so many years of PC and social engineering.
However, they will not have it their ways coz the world does not work that way and there will always be a counterbalance somewhere.
Othering of minorities or the non-pure born.
Not sure what this means but I really doubt the govt can do anything if people comply with the law.
Start fights in other countries.
They don't have too coz there are already many to fight at home.
Up “defence” spending.
Yes, that is definite regardless. In fact they should double or triple it.
Declare war.
Why? What for? Don't other country(s) have better things to do?
Rise in patriotism and suppression of opposition
A better way of putting is this.
The winner will always put others in their place regardless.
Glorious victories
All victories are glorious until the next defeat.
More glorious victor
Only if they can do as told by the power lend to them.
More glorious victories, but closer to home
Being re-elected? UK remain United?
Even more glorious victories, but now on our doorstep.
Yes, being surprisingly more competitive even with all the pressure.
Blimey. I just clicked through to the facebook post of someone who shared a totally racist post (the gist was that "Muslim groomers should all be sent home immediately" - i.e. making the insulation that Muslims are groomers. I don't normally see this sort of thing as like most of us my facebook friends tend to be people with similar views to me own so wouldn't.
I was curious as to who would share that so clicked through onto the earlier sharers page. Blimey - it's a never ending torrent of bile aimed against foreigners - story after story of dubious truthfulness linking every evil to other nationalities, shock fear mongering stories about Coronovirus (a video of someone convulsing under a blood-stained dirty sheet, probably totally unrelated) - pictures of a dead bat in a bowl of soup saying how dirty the Chinese are "it's no wonder we get viruses because of them" and it goes on and on. I don't think any is self-generated, just shared content from others, so probably an account like millions of others.
It worries me both that this type of world view is out there (and I suspect fairly common), but also that with the modern "echo chamber" society this probably won't get challenged.
I'm guilty of perpetuating that - I don't want to get into huge arguments over the internet, so just quietly left his page and if my friend posts more stuff like that I'll likely just un-follow her.
Not sure what my point is - just a bit of a thoughtful rant.
Can you please outline what you think the benefits of Brexit are?
You voted for it after all.
By the way, I deliberately didn't have a go at you on a previous thread because you were being courteous and trying to make a point in a genuine manner.
Now you call me 'vile'.
So, I can assure you this time that I won't be shedding any tears if your bad decision has bad consequences for you. I wouldn't take pleasure in it, but nor would I have any sympathy. Sorry and all that.
A piece of advice. Save your buyer's regret fuelled anger for those who duped you in the first place.
Oh, and it doesn't matter to me what names you call me. I learned a long time ago to only be upset by what people say if I respect them enough to take notice. So in this case I am not remotely bothered.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
You really are a vile individual.
He’s not really,he’s infuriated with the current situation.
People voted 3 times for Brexit, they can have it and face the consequences. No sympathy for me either.
Blimey. I just clicked through to the facebook post of someone who shared a totally racist post (the gist was that “Muslim groomers should all be sent home immediately” – i.e. making the insulation that Muslims are groomers. I don’t normally see this sort of thing as like most of us my facebook friends tend to be people with similar views to me own so wouldn’t.
I was curious as to who would share that so clicked through onto the earlier sharers page. Blimey – it’s a never ending torrent of bile aimed against foreigners – story after story of dubious truthfulness linking every
Dont unfriend just learn how to use the report hate/fake news on Facebook, I know it sounds a bit nobby but it’s the only way to stop it.
It worries me both that this type of world view is out there (and I suspect fairly common), but also that with the modern “echo chamber” society this probably won’t get challenged.
They have always been there. Never gone. Ever.
You want them gone then let them express their views.
But you will Never get rid of all of them coz that is Not good either.
Can you let me know what will happen to my elderly fathers healthcare?
He lives in Spain and is completely reliant on reciprocal healthcare agreements.
Thanks.
No he can't. That would mean knowing stuff about the detail.
But if he does try it will be a load of words that could be neatly summarised as "I'm sure we'll sort something out".
Is that the best you can do @dannyh ?
You really are a vile individual.
I've had three years of trying to argue logically about Brexit (because we needed to understand each other's position, and to unite and not be devisive), and once it became clear that there WERE going to be no tangible benefits, all I got back was "dry your remoaner tears", "leftie snowflake traitor" and "we won, you lost, get over it". So we've passed the tipping point now - I place the blame squarely with the politicians who sold a lie and the media who were complicit in spreading the lie and throttling the truth, but I feel no longer bound by any sense that I need to be the one who has to compromise. If people are celebrating Brexit, I'm going to call them out for being the morons that they are.
Is that the best you can do @dannyh ?
You really are a vile individual.
You don’t get to be offended by someone pointing out the stupidity of voting for Brexit, especially if it negatively impacts your quality of life. I’m fed up of leavers acting all butt hurt because they don’t like us nasty remainers pointing out that you broke it, you own it.
I’ll tell you who can be offended by Brexit, my Finnish wife who no longer feels welcome in this country amid an increasingly nationalistic and right wing populist nation, or even me, an owner of a business that that exports the vast majority of its services and STILL doesn’t know what financial impact this absolute bit of a mess will have on my business and employees.
It’s not vile to point out the stupidity of voting for Brexit, it’s vile to have voted for it in the first place, and legitimised the nasty, insular racist rhetoric that factions of the media and the English population now feel emboldened to spread.
Anyway, I don't know what the Brexies are so antsy about.
I mean, all that has to happen is for Brexit to be a roaring success. A success that creates jobs and wealth rather than destroying them. Piece of piss. And that would mean the likes of me shutting my gob forever about it.
Many of the Brexies seem confident it is the best ****ing thing since sliced bread, so they don't need to be so angry as they are going to be ones saying 'I told you so', right? Nothing to worry about.
It might happen. But then a squadron of low flying pigs might roar overhead any minute too.
Can you let me know what will happen to my elderly fathers healthcare?He lives in Spain and is completely reliant on reciprocal healthcare agreements.
Thanks.
I believe that is ok - as long as he stays put. The withdrawal agreement agreed healthcare for life (for existing residents) - https://www.thelocal.es/20200128/brexit-four-rights-for-brits-in-spain-that-are-guaranteed-with-withdrawal-agreement
Can you let me know what will happen to my elderly fathers healthcare?
He lives in Spain and is completely reliant on reciprocal healthcare agreements.
Thanks.
No he can’t. That would mean knowing stuff about the detail.
But if he does try it will be a load of words that could be neatly summarised as “I’m sure we’ll sort something out”.
I’m in the same position , I actually think that Brexit was an act of total selfishness,there was clarity on all these things before but now No ones got a scooby doo.
I’ll tell you who can be offended by Brexit, my Finnish wife who no longer feels welcome in this country amid an increasingly nationalistic and right wing populist nation, or even me, an owner of a business that that exports the vast majority of its services and STILL doesn’t know what financial impact this absolute bit of a mess will have on my business and employees.
I have a few Finnish friends, yes, they ain't my spouse etc but I can tell you many Finnish don't think exactly like you think they are. They are trying to comply with the EU system but they are not that happy put it this way, they can bear with it but for how long we don't know. For Finland they join EU partly because they just want to keep a safe distance from their mortal invaders from the east.
What I am trying to say is that you cannot expect 100% of the people to welcome everyone coz that will be a silly assumption.
I have a few Finnish friends, yes, they ain’t my spouse etc but I can tell you many Finnish don’t think exactly like you think they are. They are trying to comply with the EU system but they are not that happy put it this way, they can bear with it but for how long we don’t know. For Finland they join EU partly because they just want to keep a safe distance from their mortal invaders from the east.
And this sums up Brexiters in a nutshell. You know a few Finns apparently that aren’t happy with the EU, well I know or I am related to hundreds that will call that utter bollocks.
Some of my best friends are Finns. 😂
And this sums up Brexiters in a nutshell. You know a few Finns apparently that aren’t happy with the EU, well I know or I am related to hundreds that will call that utter bollocks.
Yeah, but some bloke down the pub says that we aren't allowed bendy bananas.
Also, you don't need to be Finnish to call that utter bollocks.
And this sums up Brexiters in a nutshell. You know a few Finns apparently that aren’t happy with the EU, well I know or I am related to hundreds that will call that utter bollocks.
That is my own experience and my friends are from Turku and Helsinki. You know perfectly well how they make jokes of each other even in their own country. "Oh ya ... he is from Turku they are weird" replied my friend from Helsinki. I asked why but I got funny answers.
Some of my best friends are Finns. 😂
I have friends but I have only few best friends that I grew up with (in other parts of the world).
However, I have some good friends from all over the world.
Just been watching Dominic Raaabbb on Andrew Marr he seems nervous and not very convincing. Like he doesn't believe what he saying himself.
I believe that is ok – as long as he stays put. The withdrawal agreement agreed healthcare for life (for existing residents)
The CHEAP words of a member of the British government though.. Any Spanish source?
How effective has our British American ambassador been in extradition of that woman who falsely claimed diplomatic imunity after causing death by dangerous driving?
With the UK Gov making it very awkward for EU nationals in the UK, what if the UK denies reciprocal healthcare to EU citizens after the WA period ?
You think that won't change thier attitude?
Nothing has been legally agreed, it's all just 'trust us, it'll be fine'...
... From a bunch of people who have repeatedly proven to be completely untrustworthy.
Just been watching Dominic Raaabbb on Andrew Marr he seems nervous and not very convincing. Like he doesn’t believe what he saying himself.
It is starting to dawn on them.
Another absolute priority is making sure these bastards carry the can for what they have done.
They know the damage this is going to do, but they proceeded and told lies to enable it.
I call it 'treason'.
Poundshop Trump
He isn’t Poundshop Trump.
He’s Poundshop Berlusconi.
Just been watching Dominic Raaabbb on Andrew Marr he seems nervous and not very convincing. Like he doesn’t believe what he saying himself.
Is that because he’s telling whoppers and knows that it’ll be screengrabbed and used against him?
Just been watching Dominic Raaabbb on Andrew Marr he seems nervous and not very convincing. Like he doesn’t believe what he saying himself.
Also, everything in politics is a double edged sword to some extent.
The Tories' majority cuts off a line of retreat for them. Much more difficult to say "we didn't get the deals we wanted because of remainer obstruction in parliament".
. We have no trade deals currently, we only have 11 months to negotiate loads of deals,
We have less time than that, the deal has to be ratified by EU Parliament before the end of the year. Negotiations start in March(!) I make that around 7 months max. I still have my paddle but the creek is full of ordure and I don't have firm grasp of the means of propulsion.
Edit. The Finns, a nation that knows what it is like to try and hold a much larger neighbour at bay.
He’s Poundshop Berlusconi.
Poundshop Von Papen more like.
Trade Secretary Liam Fox:
“We’re going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union, so we’ve got no disruption of trade,”
“I hear people saying ‘oh we won’t have any [free trade agreements] before we leave.’ Well, believe me, we’ll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019,” said Fox to cheering Tory activists.
“All these faint hearts saying we cannot do it"
Now we've got Liz Truss.. How many trade agreements has she ratified?
Poundshop ...
What is wrong with Poundshop?
Drac : Thats the vid i linked to in my post on page 4/15hrs ago, utterly disgusting behaviour by rats that have crawled out of the sewers now that it is deemed acceptable to be overtly racist, there is far-far worse than that if you explore the many brexit tweets.
We have to realign the people’s future anger not at one another but at the people who preside over this.
That's not how it works currently, the tories are very good at the divide and conquer tactic, they sold council houses cheaply to people to make them homeowners, making tory voters out of some of the working class as it was back then, they created the need for foodbanks...why is that division you might say? well, there's a new class of people around to sh*t upon, everybody likes to do that to people on the ladder rung below them, and of course Brexit. Divide the country up, **** the consequences because we are still in power.
Election promise:
Mr Javid said: "No department will be cut next year. Every single department has had its budget for day to day spending increased at least in line with inflation.
"That's what I mean by the end of austerity."
Post election:
he wrote to cabinet ministers, asking them to draw up cuts of up to 5% of their spending plans.
They’ve been told to go through their budgets “line by line” and be ready to justify any spending plans and projects they want to keep.
In the note, Mr Javid wrote: “We have been elected with a clear fiscal mandate to keep control of day to day spending.
“This means there will need to be savings made across government to free up money to invest in our priorities.”
Draw your own conclusions.
Divide the country up, **** the consequences because we are still in power.
Exactamundo But now they’ve no one Left to blame and are on the hook to deliver something and they can’t blame remainers,the opposition or the eu.
They’ve no-one left to divide but their own mps 🙂
What is wrong with Poundshop?
Most of the goods are of inferior quality. Whether or not the VALUE is better or worse is more subjective.
Anyway, stop trying to derail the thread by being obtuse.
This thread is going down the crapper based on some of the vituperative posts above.
No-one who voted in the referendum knew how a leave majority would translate into policy, trade deals etc.
Each side lied about the other and there was an absence of demonstrable facts; many/most leavers (probably) voted based on instinct, re-inforced by their news source of choice.
In my view at the time, in event of a leave vote only two things could be said with any certainty:
i) the 27 would not be accommodating; why would they? The balance of power would sit with them and they would use it to their advantage
ii) any suggestion that undoing 47 years of integration would be straightforward was clearly
delusional
Since then the problems and downsides have become increasingly clear.
Some leave voters see Brexit as a vindication of their views and has empowered them to unmask their previously hidden xenophobic, racist views.
The process of johnson & co walking back 'commitments' has already started and will continue steadily.
Right wing press are shifting blame onto the EU - they won't give us what we want, complain, whinge, stoke the divisions which are now clear; that will be lapped up by leavers - not all but a high %-age.
When things go wrong it's always good to shift the blame - and not to ask pointed questions which would expose uncomfortable truths.
So johnson wants - and expects to get - a Canada style trade agreement with the EU; the EU will, rightly, extract significant concessions before giving any ground - on anything.
This tory gov completely own everything that will result from this and no-one should be allowed to forget that.
Vociferous/influential leave voters own this as much as the gov.
As for the rest of the leave voters, they will have years to reflect on the consequences of their vote.
As for the posters in Norwich council tower block, let's hope there's a CCTV system so the police can review and act. If a resident is responsible, council should evict them and refuse to re-house.
dannyh
Member
Anyway, I don’t know what the Brexies are so antsy about.
I mean, all that has to happen is for Brexit to be a roaring success. A success that creates jobs and wealth rather than destroying them. Piece of piss. And that would mean the likes of me shutting my gob forever about it.
Honestly this a million times. Boris Johnston doesn't think brexit is going to be a success. The tory press that campaigned for it don't think it's going to be a success. If they did, they would be smugly waiting to be proved right. Instead they're already moving onto the next stage, Blaming Johnny Foreigner.
And there's a pretty good chance that this'll work. But it's insane.
Promoting hate speech on a cycling website ain't gonna help nobodies daddy in Spain I'm afraid so people need to get a grip.
Over the next few decades we can take back control from the shortsighted and become a more outward looking country.
The poorly educated whooped us this time but that implies there is a serious problem with education, let's fix that first. Onward and upward, the battle for a better UK has begun.
Each side lied about the other
Example where Remain lied about Leave, please....
Over the next few decades we can take back control from the shortsighted and become a more outward looking country.
Why wait?
Education takes time man.
As for the posters in Norwich council tower block, let’s hope there’s a CCTV system so the police can review and act. If a resident is responsible, council should evict them and refuse to re-house.
I noticed that one of them partially obscured a fire door sign. I would be looking at a charge along the lines of endangering lives. Nothing wrong with a bit of creativity in this case methinks.
Education takes time man.
Education is a waste of time if you aren't receptive to it or capable of adapting it for critical thought, man.
Over the next few decades we can take back control from the shortsighted and become a more outward looking country.
The poorly educated whooped us this time but that implies there is a serious problem with education, let’s fix that first. Onward and upward, the battle for a better UK has begun.
You're calling @cinnamon_girl short-sighted and/or poorly educated but don't want to promote hate speech?
Over the next few decades we can take back control from the shortsighted and become a more outward looking country.
"Take back control", I like the sound of that! It's a shame we literally gave it away the day before the weekend.
A little perspective scotroutes please
If we gave it away Pondo then we can take it back, the journey is long.
Actually my last post was shit.
I've been drawn into being argumentative for the hell of it. Not the first time, won't be the last.
I'm going to concentrate on the rugby for a bit.
If we gave it away Pondo then we can take it back, the journey is long.
Awesome! Long and totally unnecessary! I was really depressed about Brexit but now you've cheered me right up. 🙂
Promoting hate speech on a cycling website ain’t gonna help nobodies daddy in Spain I’m afraid so people need to get a grip.
I take offence to that.. Who's promoting hate speech other than those that blindly want brexit?
Give me some facts.
One thing i find ironic is the promotion of the Union flag,presumably by Brexiteers. If ever there is a chance of the union flag being consigned to history it's due to the actions of so called Unionists..
This thread is going down the crapper based on some of the vituperative posts above.
100% it's total c$%p now, shut it down and reopen MG's thread. This is beyond the pail regardless of the morons on the vide.
Dry your tears, snowflake.
Promoting hate speech on a cycling website ain’t gonna help nobodies daddy in Spain I’m afraid so people need to get a grip.
No one is promoting it.
No one is promoting it.
How about promoting violence.
Ah! That’s different I’ll address that now.
Onward and upward, the battle for a better UK has begun.
This. The anger and frustration at Brexit is to be expected. If we let that anger consume us and then lash out wildly at anyone who doesn't agree with us do we really think it'll improve the state of the country?
Hard though it will be, the time now is for listening, understanding and actions to make things better, for everyone. Bite your tongue and rise above.
it’s vile to have voted for it in the first place, and legitimised the nasty, insular racist rhetoric that factions of the media and the English population now feel emboldened to spread.
Now hold on. I'm a die-hard remainer but not all leavers voted so for vile reasons, and to call them such is really not good. And you cannot justify being a dick to leavers just because they are leavers.
Get a grip, for goodness' sake.
Best you can do pondo, your contributions to this thread are so inappropriate for a family cycling forum !! If you want to call me a snowflake PM me we can meet up and you can do it to my face 👍
Bless, I had no idea you were so sensitive - let me know which contributions are inappropriate and I'll apologise. PM sent. 😉
I’m a die-hard remainer but not all leavers voted so for vile reasons, and to call them such is really not good.
It's true that they may not have voted for that, but I think it's also true that they've legitimised those views.
It’s true that they may not have voted for that, but I think it’s also true that they’ve legitimised those views.
It only would have taken a quick check to realise they were supporting a cause that was dear to the likes of Farage et al.
If you are on the same side as Yaxley-Lennon's lot, you know what you are backing.
This. The anger and frustration at Brexit is to be expected. If we let that anger consume us and then lash out wildly at anyone who doesn’t agree with us do we really think it’ll improve the state of the country?
I disagree. The animal rights lot used a dirty direct action campaign that turned the general public against animal testing.
Anti-racists could do with taking some inspiration from them.
Ok.
Any more aggressive posts, condoning violence or indeed claiming such things that all leavers knew they were promoting racism and I’ll hand out more bans.
Statistically i will be dead before we get back in..
A good rule of thumb is that whenever someone starts referring to a massive, disparate group of people as "them" to attack them they're either a raging idiot or a mendacious shit stirrer.
It's part of a nasty process of "othering", perfected by horrible bastards of all shades.
A good way of making people with loads of shared history, experiences and values become suspicious and hateful of each other.
If you are on the same side as Yaxley-Lennon’s lot, you know what you are backing.
+1 collective guilt was good enough for the Germans, I don’t see why it’s not good enough for the brexiteers.
They need to collectively own it and speak out against all racists, just like they tend to ask Muslims to speak out against terror.
A good way of making people with loads of shared history, experiences and values become suspicious and hateful of each other.
What shared values? I have more in common with a well educated Iranian than I do with a lot of brexies.
Neither side is /was perfect, and when asked to choose one you have to be prepared to accept that it brings with it some stuff you don't specifically agree with.
However, when that baggage is being aligned with the BNP, when the result of your support is the emboldening of the kind of people in that video, or that post notices like those in Norwich - then I'm sorry but you ARE complicit.
You can't claim it comes as a surprise, it was clear in the campaigning. You knew what was in the box and you opened it anyway.
It’s true that they may not have voted for that, but I think it’s also true that they’ve legitimised those views.
Yes but that may not have been their intention, and they may not have realised that would be the consequence.
It only would have taken a quick check to realise they were supporting a cause that was dear to the likes of Farage et al.
If you are on the same side as Yaxley-Lennon’s lot, you know what you are backing.
It's much more complex than that.
A good rule of thumb is that whenever someone starts referring to a massive, disparate group of people as “them” to attack them they’re either a raging idiot or a mendacious shit stirrer.
Or just igorant - but yes. So by talking about leavers this and that, you are part of the problem even if you think you are on the right side of the issue (and I do).
In other words, don't be a dick. It's never justifiable.
Complicity and responsibility can get complicated though, why does it stop at a leave voter, what about those that have stood back and followed the system, what about those that created the system, what about those that blindly ignore the problems of society because they were just fine. We reap what we sow. Time for change.
Hmm. We just had change, didn't work so well.
+1 collective guilt was good enough for the Germans, I don’t see why it’s not good enough for the brexiteers
You're now equating Brexit with the 3rd Reich? You've lost the plot entirely.
Following it up with the desire to punish a large group of people for their thought crimes. Yet somehow you see others as wannabe fascists.