In practice, nothing will happen until the EU/Republic start complaining again, then another 'agreement' will be reached which pleases some people all of the time, or all people some of the time (what Rishi has done here). Give it 5 years and NI will be part of Ireland.
Can someone explain how that works in practice?
For supermarkets supplying themselves. Easy.
For business to consumer direct sales. Also quite easy.
For wholesale and resale … 🤯
EU sausage police gotta be on standby.
So a good day so far until we see the details then. Nice to see things slightly moving towards sensible.
A step in the right direction…
Except the treasury took the money back last week - money that was earmarked either for Horizon participation or to be spent on UK research if we couldn't participate. But stuck in limbo, unable to do either.......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64726522
Hopefully that will be reversed and we can join; what can't be reversed is the drain of researchers that couldn't wait and have gone abroad for the certainty that brings.
Oh, it’s all about cushioning the fall… but we can still welcome that and hope we progress further. It’s the turning the ship around analogy… we’re still going the wrong way but early signs of a course direction, or at least a slowing down of the rush to go the wrong way.
^^ Shocker eh?
I actually saw a bloke wearing union Jack trousers today like the guy in that twitter pic a page ago! That's a first for me.
Let's just day he tucked every single Brexiteer box you can imagine.
I almost shouted, "bingo!"😁
If you wear union Jack trousers you are a red flag for mental illness
Union Jack trousers with matching Bollocks To Brexit T-shirt and an EU tattoo?
yeh, I'd cross the road
bigrich
Full Member
If you wear union Jack trousers you are a red flag for mental illness
Mate posted a pic of me in my union Jack boxers the other day. Pic was from around 2016,probably pre-referendum.
No idea what it says about me, but I ditched the boxers long ago.
Spoke to a bloke from Suffolk the other day. He was on his way to Santander to catch the ferry home before his 90 days run out. Felt genuinely sorry for him.
From the Guardian article this evening
Although most Conservative MPs warmly welcomed the breakthrough after two years of negotiations, Johnson stayed away from the House of Commons chamber and is said not to have made up his mind about whether to endorse or oppose the “Windsor framework”.
Nice to see Boris ‘2 letters’ Johnson is as principled as ever and is simply weighing up what would be best for Boris Johnson. Same as 2016. He’s consistent. Consistent in not giving a flying **** about anything other than himself
Boris Johnson dangles threat of rebellion over Northern Ireland deal
The minister for children up chimneys Rees-Mogg, was fawning all over him tonight on Peston. He now has a show GBTV 3 nights a week, surprised there hasn’t been a PSA.
I have to admit im as confused over this NIP stuff, but then I've little interest in politics.
Is this deal thingy about allowing the UK to deal with or trade with the EU without the myriad of checks being outside the EU has brought. As in many large companies who did deal with the EU could no longer due to brexit, and this is some sort of thing that circumvents the whole process.
I just wish it wasn't called the Windsor Framework.
The Darwin Framework would have been much more fun to wind up the DUP with.
Is this deal thingy about allowing the UK to deal with or trade with the EU without the myriad of checks being outside the EU has brought.
This deal thingy is about allowing England, Scotland and Wales to continue to deal with or trade with Northern Ireland with a smaller subset of the myriad of checks being outside the EU would otherwise bring.
Trumpeting how much better things are for NI just with a fraction of what the entire country had prior to Brexit.
While any attempt to talk to the EU like grown-ups for a change is to be applauded, it just shows exactly what the majority of us have lost.
As expect, the likes of Steve Baker who torpedoed something similar under May are now lauding this fudged deal and trying to claim that something has been achieved. Will there now be a show of faux unity in the Tories to try to persuade the electorate they are not a bunch of infighting scumbags?
Is this deal thingy about allowing the UK to deal with or trade with the EU without the myriad of checks being outside the EU has brought. As in many large companies who did deal with the EU could no longer due to brexit, and this is some sort of thing that circumvents the whole process.
Not really, but based on the who-ha you'd think it was actually a benefit to the whole of the UK.
As I pointed out to an acquaintance, it's a sticking plaster for the limb you amputated.
Does the rest of the EU have to ratify this deal? It seems like it increases the risk of NI being used as a backdoor route for UK companies to access the single market, which would upset quite a few of them, you'd have thought.
As for the DUP, nothing can disguise the fact that this halfway house status further disengages NI from the rest of the UK, the direction of travel is towards reunification by stealth. Add to this the fact that they have no intention of power-sharing with Sinn Fein after losing the majority (the reason they took their ball home in the first place), and I'd be surprised if they didn't attempt to scupper this, or just continue to ignore the NI assembly.
Does the rest of the EU have to ratify this deal?
No. Not in the normal way. But both Hungary and Poland now making official noises about being unhappy with EU:UK arrangements bypassing the normal ratifications (the "ex member" status created as part of the withdrawal agreement for the UK is what's been allowing that to happen) and wanting to make sure it doesn't creep (either time wise, or for other countries).
Have I got this right?
The very same people who told us that we absolutely have to leave the single market are now championing the huge benefits that Norn Ireland enjoys by staying in the single market?
Yes.
I don't think we're in anything like the end phase of this Brexit/culture war nightmare. Finally managing to discuss basic trade and border arrangements with our EU neighbours and iron out some kinks in what is essentially moving goods within our own bloody borders does not really deserve a pat on the back, if that is what he's actually managed to do...
Lil' Rishi is just current face of Tory Centrism, much like 'Call me Dave' was before all of this. He's an inoffensive pleasant enough publicly schooled managerial type who will, for a while, hold the disparate racists, nutbars and free-marketeers of the Tory party together and project some vague image of being "competent".
This deal is just an opening gambit in a strategy to try and demonstrate a bit of stability and calm, ultimately intended to give the Tories some sort of shot at the next GE.
The overwhelming impression I got from the news was, nobody (apart from the Sunak loyalist) really knows if this is a good deal or not, they've been a bit blindsided and need to actually read and understand it before stating any opinions.
All the while Boris is still splashing in the shallow end of the political swimming pool, trying to decide if it's worth wading into the middle again and loudly demanding everyone listens to him again or else he'll piss and poo himself just to ruin Rishi's party...
The very same people who told us that we absolutely have to leave the single market are now championing the huge benefits that Norn Ireland enjoys by staying in the single market?
That exact thing has been touted by bojo and whoever they chose that month to do the Brexit negotiations previously. You can actually see the result in the North as well - its absolutely thriving.
I fully expect the DUP and their ilk to screw this one over. As a member of a largely Protestant / unionist family (well the ones who reside in the North are, nobody else gives a fig) I cannot wait for the Catholics to outbreed us. Thankfully the nutjob quotient in the family fully embrace the 'Blackadder's puritanical aunt' stereotype and so the chances of them multiplying are slim.
Brexit will never be done as it's a chronic illness so will always need "managing".
It will never be done in the real sense.
We're clearly not doing irony today....
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1630516003267309570?s=20
You really couldn't make it up
I could cry. What an absolute bunch of tools. Cheap chinese leadloy screwdrivers the lot of them.
They have baked a mouldy and toxic cake, shat on it, sprinkled some more dirt on it, cut a tiny wafer of a slice, stuck in a part burned candle and are now proudly marching it through the restaurant with great aplomb to the recipient.
I cannot wait for the Catholics to outbreed us.
In the rest of Ireland that might be a little outdated term now, except for weddings and funerals I've not done any hardcore church stuff for 30 years now.
I see Rishi's an avid literature fan.
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. ”
And also, the EU good is the EU bad.
You heard it here from George Orwell first.
You really couldn’t make it up
Next steps… Labour to suggest that GB could do with some of what NI will be getting… and then future Tory MPs to start suggesting that May was onto a better compromise than her successors have delivered for GB… and then both parties can start the long slow journey towards whole UK alignment and close cooperation with the rest of Europe. It won’t be long before a sizeable majority of voters are expecting and calling for that… even in England.
Boris Johnson (the man who broke Britain for his own advancement) needs to be completely politically dead and buried first though, and no longer be a risk for any Labour or Tory leader.
We’re clearly not doing irony today….
Sunak, as a lifelong brexiter **** just admitted that there is no benefits to being outside the EU/single market.
This should finish him but the deluded brexiteer ****wombles will hail it as a win.
@caher yep its most certainly outdated in the Republic and in most areas in the North, but there's little vocal enclaves, usually with painted kerb stones, where it matters.
It looks good if you're Northern Irish. EU legislation retained, GFA intact, human rights legislation intact and for things likely to stay in NI a green lane so most foodstuffs.
It sounds just like Dover-Calais of days gone by: red lane if you have stuff to declare that's on a list because the EU really doen't want it going south for some reason and a green lane for rest.
As with the orignal deal the PM will paint it as a victory and the EU member states will smile sweetly and give each other knowing winks.
Go NI!
I was always told that the 'unbelievable investment opportunities' would apply to the whole UK after Brexit, not just the bits that effectively remain in the single market.
brexit was just like doing an ego driven flounce from a party, then finding out no-one followed you out, and it's cold and raining
The very same people who told us that we absolutely have to leave the single market are now championing the huge benefits that Norn Ireland enjoys by staying in the single market?
Just seen that clip on the news, **** me, we're so far through the looking glass now....🤯
I can't remember who it was but wasn't there a government Brexiteer on earlier getting all emotional about how good this deal is?
WTAF?
It will be interesting to see where this leads labour in terms of single market / customs union membership . I understand why they are playing it safe at the moment and saying what they think some red wall voters want to hear but when the brexiteer prime minister has effectively said look how good the single market is ,it makes that position seem pretty daft to me .
^^ Yep, I wonder if, long term, there could be some positives for the rest of the UK too. Unintended consequences and all that. Unintended as, let's be honest, this government isn't ruling the UK to make things better for most of the people within it anymore.
It's a tennative step to rejoining, still a way off, hopefully will open up Horizon 2020 membership at least.
Mind you, the DUP could still torpedo this. I bet they are bloody furious in reality but they have rather exquisitely painted themselves into a corner on this one!
Just seen that clip on the news, **** me, we’re so far through the looking glass now….🤯
Yep it’s well weird.
They’ll all cheer it today then be squabbling about it tomorrow, still it’s going to torpedo BJ’s return.
Isn’t this another thing that was floated in the ‘May’ days now being pulled out the bin and recycled like the original ‘Oven ready’ deal.
It’s a tennative step to rejoining, still
I can see rejoining the Single market being sold as a Brexit benefit tbh 🙂
EU have been very smart here, killed the nasty EU propaganda stone dead, created a working example of a future EU/UK business model, used Rishi to make Boris, Erg, DUP look incompetent and out of touch, got the Boris NIP bill scrapped. All this and maintaining governance/regulatory alignment.
And gave Rishi a "victory" over the cunning Europeans... in short a ****ing masterclass in diplomacy and negotiation.
However that penny may well have dropped with the ERG, DUP, Add in Rishi will need the Labour party to get it passed... Rishi is going to wake up in a few weeks wondering why his arse is sore.
Think about what would be the perfect solution for the EU.
I don't think EU member states want the UK back as a full member, they don't want the likes of Farrage back in the parliament or a UK veto blocking things. So full membership no.
They would like to sell us more stuff, trade and make things in the UK with less faff. Trade is good so long as it's fair trade. So customs union yes.
Singapore on Thames in your back yard is irritating so limiting the UK's financial excesses, money laundering and dodgy financial services would be good. Regulatory allignment will be a condition of any progress.
The EU will barter what it wants for what the UK desperately needs. It's started.
In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal and Starmer was dumb to rule it out.
In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal and Starmer was dumb to rule it out.
Starmer won't be PM in the long term. He can rule out what he needs to now, to ensure election. Subsequent leaders can easily rule it back in when we've had plenty of time to wallow in our circumstances.
Oh course there is another benefit to all all this.*
When NI's economy flourishes (even more that now) there will be a *direct* comparison for people to make with the rest of the stagnated UK...
That comparison can't be bs'ed say as being due to Ukraine, covid, a smelly fart or whatever. It will be absolutely crystal clear that it's due to NI's closer relationship with the EU.
I think that's when talk of rejoining the CU etc will really get going.👍
* Unfortunately the rest of the UK has to suffer before the distinction between NI and "the rest of us" can be made.😐
I've just seen the daily excess headlines "rishis Brexit bonus" 🤣🤣
We've been through this Molgrips. Recent polling on Brexit and rejoining says the majority want a closer relation than now. Labour's refusal to consider the most obvious compromise of a Norway deal will lose more votes than it will win.
Only 30% of Labour voters voted leave in the first place. OK some like you and Dazh have become Brexit apologists but as many STWers have said they were wrong to vote Brexit and more have forgotten they said they'd vote leave. How many determined Brexiters left? 5
the majority want a closer relation than now
The journey back is long and slow, and even when finished will fall well short of what we had. That's why it was such a foolish thing to do. You can't just leave and try it out for a bit and return quickly if you change your mind. Leaving has a long term negative effect, and will take another decade or more of hard work minimising the damage. There's no quick fix, just a long slow repair. This week has given us a small glimmer of hope that even this government are acknowledging that, with steps towards keeping NI working well with the rest of Ireland and the EU and dropping the bill that would have created a crisis in the UK:EU relationship over the island of Ireland, and also some involvement in Horizon in the future for the UK... hopefully.
They would like to sell us more stuff, trade and make things in the UK with less faff. Trade is good so long as it’s fair tradeSo customs union yes.
Singapore on Thames in your back yard is irritating so limiting the UK’s financial excesses, money laundering and dodgy financial services would be good. Regulatory allignment will be a condition of any progress.
The EU will barter what it wants for what the UK desperately needs. It’s started.
In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal
? Switzerland and Norway are outside of the Customs Union. Trade between the EU members and those countries involves border controls and paperwork. This type of deal does not exactly equal less faff.
We’ve been through this Molgrips. Recent polling on Brexit and rejoining says the majority want a closer relation than now. Labour’s refusal to consider the most obvious compromise of a Norway deal will lose more votes than it will win.
We also did that not all votes are necessarily worth the same. The majority of people don't matter if they are already in safe seats, whether red or blue. They won't make red seats more red, and won't make enough of a difference when it comes to it in blue ones.
It's how a change of policy would sit with those that are swing voters in marginal seats. Which is a risky spin and which might not be needed right now, when the primary goal is to get the Tories out with as big an impact to them as possible.
That doesn't make me an apologist, rather a pragmatist. Maybe even a dishonest one, if you consider playing the game to win as big as possible more important than sticking to my absolute opinion.
We’ve been through this Molgrips.
Yes sir, sorry sir. Won't do it again sir.
molgrips
Full MemberStarmer won’t be PM in the long term. He can rule out what he needs to now, to ensure election
This was a kind of convincing argument when they were tied in the polls. Now, it's not. He's not doing this through necessity, he's s leading where he wants to go.
psst ... he's "won" f all so far ... losing the next election is still possible ... but let's not replicate "that thread" here
Agree, polls could easily swing back tories way, especially if economy picks up, that would also change sentiment toward rejoining
Likewise a big eurozone recession would change that too.
Whoever is leading Labour has a v narrow line to tread
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter are still ignoring the bind that our deeply undemocratic voting system puts him in. @theotherjohnv pointed out above that not all votes are worth the same, and Raphael Behr wrote today "There is no Brexit position that can satisfy Labour’s liberal Remainer base without repelling the leave voters on whom a majority depends".
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………
Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.
I suppose this means they can now get with the good old USA deal.
I read that Raphael Behr article earlier and have to admit it was one of the most sensible analyses of Brexit as it now stands that I have seen.
“There is no Brexit position that can satisfy Labour’s liberal Remainer base without repelling the leave voters on whom a majority depends”.
I get the sneaking suspicion that Starmer wants his majority first, and hopes that within a first term, a combination of demographic shift, fatigue, worsening domestic economic circumstances etc make the popular clamour for closer ties and easier trade with the EU impossible to ignore.
Well they've snuck this 'Benefit' out quietly:
Frontline police and border force officers will remain locked out of information on a key EU database of terror suspects, criminals and immigration offenders for at least another four years, the Home Office has quietly admitted.
What's the point of vetting travellers if you can't do basic checks on them?
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………
Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.
Is calling someone a brexiter bullying now?
You do know that the result was within statistical margins of error and a significant amount of water has flowed under that bridge by now?
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………
Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.
Wow, that's some serious gaslighting... lol!
Is calling someone a brexiter bullying now?
I was called a racist for saying the word gammon.
Isn’t this another thing that was floated in the ‘May’ days now being pulled out the bin and recycled like the original ‘Oven ready’ deal.
Yep, Express Lanes.
And love the quote zippy, in fact love it enough to repeat it:
"nonsense, anyone can be a gammon if they stop thinking long enough" 🙂
Interesting seeing the list of the 22 who voted against the protocol.
Voted against:
48 Tory didn't vote, some will be partnered with the opposition and some will have abstained.
That odious slug Nick Ferrari getting his arse handed to him over Brexit by Marina Purkiss, I thought she was going to say “Are you ****ing joking” at one point
https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1638539489470496769?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg
Is going to get easier and easier to shoot these idiots down as each year passes and the EU fares much better than us.
Not one surprise in that list.
Not one surprise in that list.
The only big surprise was Steve 'Hardman of Brexit' Baker not on the list. Amazing what a ministerial job does for your principals.
And in an epic volte face referred to Boris as ‘a Poundland Farage’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64596453
Gene-edited food can now be developed commercially in England following a change in the law.
Yay, Brexit.