[Closed] Audi

Eh?!!

Eh what? I was admiring a really nice looking new A3 in the carpark yesterday.. Nice.

Very random.

Just buy a Golf.

I used to be a big fan of audis. Used to be a bit understated and quietly classy. Now it seems that whenever I'm on the motorway it's audis rather than BMWs that are driven by the sort of people who sit 5mm off your bumper at 80 when you're overtaking. The bloody stupid led lights rather single them out as bellendmobiles too I'm sad to say. Not that I suppose you should be put off a nice car by the people who tend to drive them, but I am.

Random, yes. I'm in a random mood.

TBH, apart from the S and RS models, they are just another VAG (s****) brand with fairly dull engines and handling.

If a car is up my jacksy for no reason, most of the time it's some t1t in a lame engined Audi with all the S-Line bodykit/big alloys trying to prove himself - and a growing trend - herself.

Well I care this much ---><--- about how other people drive with a car like mine. As you must also, being a BMW driver 😉

The new A3 I saw looked very classily designed, sophisticated and elegant, more so than a Golf. And I realy like the 2.0 TDI although I would probably go smaller. Maybe even one of those TFSI petrol engines. Although if you are going to take the reduction in horsepower you can get brill fuel economy from the diesels.

The only problem with driving a car that tends to be driven by nobbers is that other people tend to judge you accordingly. Hense the fact that despite rather liking BMs, I would never own one. That makes me particularly shallow doesn't it?

Possibly.. but A3s don't count surely?

I do like them, but I have a feeling that they tend to appeal to people who aspire to am a4 or a5, but whose company lease car allowance won't quite stretch - so still driven badly. It's tricky - they are so much nicer to look at than a golf.

bol - that's VW Passats, in saloon form.

Looking at all the road test reports I've been reading lately the smaller TFSI engine seem to be quite uneconomical. 31mpg average for a 1.2 Skoda yet over 6K miles?

I'm not fussed by Audi's most seem to ride too harshly but don't handle brillantly. I'd trade stiff ride for descent handling but harsh and poor handling seems a poor trade off.

Hense the fact that despite rather liking BMs, I would never own one. That makes me particularly shallow doesn't it?

er, no not really. Reckon there are loads of people like that. Including me and BMWs, golf, and a few other things as well.

A3 1.2 tfsi auto claims 53mpg on their website. If the real world is that low, then someone wants to have a word with Audi.

I drove a Jetta with the 'sport' suspension, and it was ridiculously harsh. So much so that I didn't want to throw it around as I daren't go fast enough, due to the shaking and bumping.

Following on from my thread the other day about the joy I found driving a V70 rental I would recommend you get a test drive before deciding if you actually like a car, in much the same way people always recommend trying a bike before you buy it, I reckon spending a day ragging your "dream car " is well worth it, it actually might not be for you...

In other related news today's Rental was a brand spanking new Astra, Wooo! Auto, 1.6L Petrol, delivered with 1000 miles on the clock, it is probably the worst car I have ever driven EVER!!!
I actually hope GM do go down the Shitter, just so they can no longer sell crap like that...

An A3?

Just ask the ladies, one of them will drive it.

I had the chance to buy my mate's A3, I refused.. shame...

I think a lot of people's perceptions of Audi/Beemer drivers comes from the fact that they are driving a car which is, essentially, no better than an equivalent Ford, but the driver (in a lot of cases) has paid the extra money for the badge, because it makes them feel that little bit more superior.

Kind of like the guy who walks into a bike shop, finds the most expensive bike and walks out with it, so he can show it off down the trails.

Clarkson was right, Audi drivers are the new BMW drivers. Go for a nice 3 series instead. It's ok, honest you can!

BMW were never as fuel efficient, but that new 320 could be. Depends who's lying the most on the tests mind.

And I don't like Audis because of the badge, I find the interior design rather nice. The one I drove (in 2003 I think) was a hire car, the same year I hired a golf. Ok so the golf was a year or two old but it was not a patch on the Audi interms of interior quality, style and refinement.

The new A3 is just a nice looking car. So's the Golf, but I think the Audi has it 🙂

There hasn't been a proper Audi since the 1990 Ur-quattro.

My bro drives a 5 series and makes a point of letting people out at junctions and generally being nice just to see people's reactions.

Good on him.

A mate of mine had a new A3 2litre diesel S line. Nice enough car,but twenty -odd grand for a glorified Golf Diesel??? ....and the build quality was less than stellar.

Molgrips - I have read 4 long term road tests recently for 1.2 and 1.4 TFSI VAG cars and they all agreed that they were disappointing on fuel. Maybe they are particularly well set up for the government fuel tests or particualry unsuited to the way journalists drive cars!

I completely agree cookeaa that the 205PS V70 is a fine car and I almost bought one this week, but at 1-2years old they are almost impossible to find but my money has gone on something very similar but possibly nicer yet 🙂

Hmm.. shame then, since those tfsi were very promising in theory.

If you like driving, don't drive an Audi and a BMW back to back as the bm pisses all over them. Nice interiors though.

Always good to have the standard 'BMW rear-drive is so superior for the keen driver' argument trotted out. Therefore if you buy one you are a keen driver of superior ability. Whilst I admit that rear drive cars are better in track conditions, in the real world the vast majority of drivers have no idea how to drive rear wheel drive cars. Also in poor weather (e.g. the UK climate) front wheel drive will be far safer and 4WD quattro will murder RWD. And no proper Audis since the Ur-quattro? Are you mad? RS2, RS4, A2, RS6, R8.

And the TT of course 😉

Had many audis and many many BMWs, the whole rear drive not as safe argument is bollox really, the DSC bmws have is easily up to the job of keeping a rear drive car on the road no matter what the weather. Audis have great ownership appeal but just aren't that good to drive. Fords are a good example of how to make a front drive car good to drive, Audi keep falling short when it comes to putting decent chassis in their cars.

A2?! Apart from the RS4 and the R8, none handle very well. RWD is brilliant in all but snow - no torque steer and so predictable. BMs have proper steering with feedback, brakes that aren't snatchy and are all balanced. They laugh at Audis marketing hyped efforts.

I tested an A4 3.0TDI Avant before getting the 335d and it was so inferior, it was funny.

Just get a Golf or a Bimmer.

I am going to help you here, I do have a A3 S-Lne 170bhp diesel, looks great but bloody uncomfortable and expensive, my wifes car is a golf gti, much,much better, and I can concur Audis make you drive like an arse!
My excuse for having one, its a company car.

I had an A8. It exemplified the Audi design. Classy, understated and adequate in every way.

If you made love to a woman and she said 'That was very adequate' how would you feel?

Sold it.

Mat I don't think you understand my criteria. I don't like BMW since they look too aggressive for me. I don't want the best handling car, I want comfort, quietness and relaxation with handling good enough to flow on country roads (at sensible speeds). And fuel economy.

I like the look of the new A3 because I think it's stylish, understated and classy. Of course, I've not drive, one, I may hate the drive. But it ticks one or two of my boxes at least.

If I made love to a woman and she told me that was adequate, I might be upset (perhaps her minimum criteria for lovemaking were earth-shattering ecstasy) but I'm not a bloody car, so it's something of a different proposition.

Totally agree on RWD argument - OH, brother and dad all BMW drivers either now or in the past ... rear-wheel drive shocking in the ice and snow but pretty good the rest of the time.

I've had a 2.0l diesel A3 for nearly 4 years now and really like it, but I also agree that the agressive driving I used to associate with BMW drivers (I know they're not all the same, but ...) is more and more likely to come from an Audi now, but I think A3 drivers (myself included 😆 ) still tend to be a good bunch. Ilike the styling and drive (I have the Sport model) ... I know some criticise the drive, but I've loved it from the outset, having tried a few of the rivals. I like driving and like to push a car a bit, but probably don't drive in a style that would reveal race-track short-comings.

Incidentally, having had at least half a dozen BMWs over the past 20 years or so, my dad is now considering replacing his Golf with an A3 (and keeping the aging 323 too). He's recently test-driven an A3 and really rates the build quality, especially over the 1 Series BMW. Horses for courses, I know, but he's definitely in a position to make a fairly well informed judgement (albeit as a more mature driver these days).

[i]My bro drives a 5 series and makes a point of letting people out at junctions and generally being nice just to see people's reactions. [/i]

Me too, and I use my indicators to really confuse 'em.

Proud Audi owner here.

Test drove a number of BMWs and yes they drove very nicely but overall I was not impressed by the quality of the finish. The BMW offereed a much better drive than the front wheel drive Audi's, but the Quattro system makes an enormous difference in the handling, not the same, may be better, but then perhaps not as involving - more go cart than sports car?

When I was looking BMWs seemed very expensive when you specced it up whereas the top spec Audi I bought came in about 6 grand cheaper.

Dealing with BMW dealers was a PITA, Audi were a sheer joy.

b r - Wow, do Bimmers have indicators as standard then? I always thought they were optional extras 😉

Mat I don't think you understand my criteria. I don't like BMW since they look too aggressive for me. [b]A bog standard non M Sport BMW is not at all "aggressive" - many Audis try to be[/b]. I don't want the best handling car, [b]why not?[/b] I want comfort quietness and relaxation with handling good enough to flow on country roads (at sensible speeds) [b]Hang on - you said handling isn't important. A BMW is more comfy on average than a tarted up Audi and just as quiet.[/b] And fuel economy. [b]BMWs are way more fuel efficient than Audis.[/b]

So what are your criteria then? So far they are perfectly met by a Golf or a smallish BMW. Or a Merc. Or even a Ford Focus.

Sack it off and get an R32, hard house compilation optional (but encouraged).

I like Golfs, so they are also on my list. I just like Audis styling better inside and out. Personally I find some Audis and many BMWs aggressively styled, but not the A3.

A few years back BMWs were not as fuel efficient as other cars. That new 3 series is pretty good at 109g/km CO2, but there's an A3 with the same. Of course it's not as powerful, but there you go. I suspect that neither would come close to their published figures tho, so I would like to see how they stack up in real life.

Handling is important as long as it's decent, but I don't give a crap about the ragged edge since I never drive like that. Hence my Prius and Passat both are adequate.. Prius could do with a stiffer chassis and bigger tyres I suspect (but then it wouldn't be so fuel efficeint); the Passat could do with less body roll and with being smaller.. but then I suppose it wouldnt' be as comfortable.

I tested a Focus when shopping - I didn't like the interiors but the real issue was the equippment packages. To get cruise control you have to have the top line model which means paying for tons of stuff you don't want, like leather. Spec FAIL.

I saw the A3 today and thought 'that looks a lovely car'. Is that wrong?

EDIT: the Audi A3 1.6 TDI is £18k, the BMW 320ed is a massive £27k. To me that makes them not in the same price range!

Dissagree about BMW economy, they have always had both better economy and power than the competition like for like, hence they often used to win the awards for best engine most years (along with Honda).

I'm not talking about mpg/hp ratio, I'm talking about just mpg. I've heard that BMW official figures are a long long way out. But then I'm good at fuel efficient driving (whilst driving normally not 50mph everywhere) so I might do better than your average journo 🙂

Looking at new wheels right now and considering A4 Avant and 5 series Touring, (wife has a 3 series and too sad to have identical cars!).

Audi def has nicer interior unless you go the whole hog with BMW kit list and leather etc. However was dull to drive.

BMW drives nicer, steering better, like little things like boot window lifting up instead of whole bootlid.

Choice may be affected by how BMW deal with the DSC (traction control) failure in the wife's car. If service is as poor as it has been ringing round for quotes then Audi may get the cash. Been an unpleasant suprise.

My TT (2.0 TFi) does 35mpg around town, 45mpg on a run doing around 75/80mph. I fancied a 325 coupe but the lease was around £125 a month more. And I am very happy with the TT.

when i got my A3(new) i got it foe less than the equivalent specced golf. VW wouldnt budge on the price at all and wouldnt match any internet quotes. At the Audi garage the matched my internet quote print out straight away so i bought that instead of the golf.Much nicer inside as well. Had mince for 3 years now and its been a good car.

I think a lot of the audi hating is a clarkson thing, he (and rest of TG team) mention it and then all the TG fanboys start agreeing! If he'd said volvo / VW etc were driven badly people would agree with that. There are idiot drivers in all cars from boy racers with bodykits to old people in their hondas / volvos!

ZaskarCarbon - Member
I think a lot of people's perceptions of Audi/Beemer drivers comes from the fact that they are driving a car which is, essentially, no better than an equivalent Ford

Ford's are OK, but not in the same league as Honda, Audi or BMW. You're kidding yourself if you think an "equivalent" Ford is better than the corresponding Audi or BMW. Better value, maybe. But a better car overall, never.

i own a 120d - the best car I have owned. I wouldn't change it for any other car in the same price range on sale today.

Ford's are OK, but not in the same league as Honda, Audi or BMW. You're kidding yourself if you think an "equivalent" Ford is better than the corresponding Audi or BMW. Better value, maybe. But a better car overall, never.

You don't really know your cars do you?

This statement may have applied 10+ years ago but not today.

A Ford Focus or Mondeo (or Fiesta) has a brilliant chassis - they handle better than any FWD Audi and modern Honda. They are also reliable and well made with a good spec as standard.

Statements like the above are made by those with no idea. An Audi (apart from the fast models) is just an expensive Skoda/Seat/VW. The high prices are justified by huge hype and because they have a "nice dashboard" (too fussy IMO). Unless you want/need a big engine and AWD then buying an Audi is all about image over substance - even with big engines, they still have dull and lifeless handling (apart from the R8).

Apart from the B7 RS4, the current S3, S4 and R8, I haven't liked Audis for many years.

Hondas current range is just dull and the diesels kill gearboxes and clutches way too often. The current CTR is also a major "miss" compared to the last one.

BMWs are genuinely a bit different - all RWD (or AWD), all well balanced, all with good steering. Some models are pretty cack (ahem X1, X3, some tiny engined diesels, the 5er GT, etc) but at least BMW make a genuine effort to build a drivers car rather than just badging up a cheapo chassis and pretending it's a sign of success.

I reckon the interiors on more upmarket cars are nicer than the cheaper ones. This is quite important to me. It's about aesthetics rather than image.. and this is a personal thing! (so you can't tell me I'm wrong 😉 )

I also like the diesel Civic, didn't find it dull at all 🙂

But I don't think there's any point in comparing Honda to BMW as they are most definitely in a different market segment!

I'd not have an Audi. As others have said, you get a fairly standard VAG platform with rock hard suspension and a nice interior. To me the clear new choices if you want something that sort of size are the MK6 GTI, MK3 Scirroco or a 3 series.

I'd not say BMW and Audi are in the same class simply because BMWs have rear wheel drive, which makes a big difference. And BMW have fantastic engines - power and economy, rather than just economy.

However, you clearly have very different priorities to me if you're considering a 1.6 TDI A3. It'll be slow, and if I had it, it'd be thirsty because it'd be going flat out in order to make a bit of progress. To me, a car has to be reliable, drive well, and as for the interior, I want good seats and switches where I can reach them. So long as the interior isn't made of recycled CD boxes, I'm happy.

This is all getting a bit aggressive again isn't it? Blimey.

At the end of the day, some people like Audis. They aren't wrong. Some people like Skodas. They aren't wrong. Some people like Rovers.

i test drove a new 1.6 tdi golf which will have the same engine as the audi and its not slow! But then again i'm past all the boy racer hooning round country road type things, i gave up on all that in cars once i discovered motorbikes (now past all that as well) To me the interior of a car is important, i'd rather have a nice inside where i sit and a resonable engine than a plasticy dash and a super fast boy racer engine.

I prefer audis as i like the interior compared to skoda / VW / fords, and i know they are pricier but i usually keep my cars 10+ years so am not really bothered about a few extra thousand over that time scale. Might not buy another, that depends on the quality of the interiors of other cars next time i change, but when i got my A3 a few years ago it had a much nicer interior than fords, hondas, golfs, skodas etc

Different people prefer different things in cars so you cant really say 'x' car is crap compared to 'y' car as they may look for different things in it than you would (eg rear wheel drive wouldnt attract me at all as i'm not really bothered that its supposed to handle better, thats not my number 1 priority)

Edit - +1 mastiles_fanylion. At the end of the day its an individuals choice, like anything else in life eg houses, bikes, clothes.

In terms of fuel economy I think my next car will have to be a reasonable ~2.0L Turbo diesel of some sort, with Cruise control and a 6 speed gear box, probably Golf Estate sized or larger, the cruise control and gear box are simply for motorway economy, sensible steady speeds with a “torquey” engine and a higher ratio top gear seem to help there (Our family car has to do plenty of motorway miles either with Child and associated gubbins or as a bike transporter) Such a car can still be enjoyable and economical on my Daily A road Commute too I reckon…

I’m fast coming to the conclusion that smaller petrol engines (1.6 or less) are a false economy unless you put them in something extra tiny and therefore light to optimise your “power to weight ratio”…
Bigger petrol engines are just naturally thirsty, only really worth getting if all you plan to do is boot the thing hard everywhere and exit this world in a blaze of (upside down through a central reservation) glory…

For a day in day out car that’s moderately enjoyable to drive, has a boot and back seats you can use and thus weighs getting on for 2te, I think you need to seriously consider what is under the bonnet as counter intuitive as it may sound I reckon you’d get better overall fuel economy out of a 2.0”TDi” that just about a 1.6/1.4 “FSi” engined equivalent and a more enjoyable drive as you’ve not climbing up and down the gears and screaming the arse off of it simply to keep sensible A Road speeds…

Irrespective of make or list price I think those are good criteria to use when looking at a car (If it’s for personal use only)…. Then again your usage might be quite different to mine.
What is your main usage going to be if you get this A3?

[i].. you can't tell me I'm wrong [/i]

Exactly. I can't see a debate! You like the car, you buy the car. Sod other opinions.

Some people like Rovers.

Do they? 😆 😉

I reckon you’d get better overall fuel economy out of a 2.0”TDi” that just about a 1.6/1.4 “FSi” engined equivalent

Quite possibly, but over their life, Diesels can chuck out some horrible unexpected bills. I'd not have another for that reason.

Surf-Mat - Member
rather than just badging up a cheapo chassis and pretending it's a sign of success

People might take your comments more seriously/objectively if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder 🙄

I have had an 06 A4 Avant S line Tdi 140bhp and it is a great car, it gives me 650 to 700 miles to a tank of fuel (driving between 60/ 70mph), the leather interior is very comfortable the Bose stereo sounds great and the S Line body kit makes the car. I've had a couple of VW passats in the past which were bigger inside but though similar the Audi is nicer.

this only "cocks drive an Audi" is rubbish usually coming from people who either have a ford or citron which they have stuck a big pipe on and a spoiler.... or they want an Audi

Get one you won't be disappointed

Diesels can chuck out some horrible unexpected bills. I'd not have another for that reason.

Fair point, depends how long you keep it and how frequently you get all "enthusiastic" when driving it...

Quite possibly, but over their life, Diesels can chuck out some horrible unexpected bills. I'd not have another for that reason.

Bit if a sweeping statement there - some diesels have been bad news (swirl flaps went on my 38k mile 1.9CDTi Astra - luckily under warranty - a major issue), others are rock solid with no problems at all. A few early issues with common rail diesels which are under immense pressure, have been ironed out - not many are popping now and generally it's just four cylinder ones which are gay anyway.

People might take your comments more seriously/objectively if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder

Chip? Where? About Audis being overpriced and not that good? Why is that a chip? Or do you have an Audi by any chance?

Captain - a 140bhp car made to look like a 414bhp RS4 with oversized alloys and crashy overhard suspension - not my cup of tea at all...

Surf-Mat - Member
Some people like Rovers.
Do they?

Cokeaa, I'm with you. If you are interested in fuel economy and not about power, then the bluemotion/other eco versioned cars are worth a look. The Passat one is big, comfy, refined and does 65mpg apparently in the real world.

True about the big engined petrol cars too but remember that the TFSi is a small engined petrol with a turbo that can be switched on and off. So you cruise as a small engined car and then when you boot it, it's like a big engined car. And they have a lot more lower down torque too which means you don't have to rev their nuts off.

Mat - the chip n your shoulder seems to be because you keep mentioning image. Why would anyone think I was discussing Audi because I care about 'image'? My other car's a Prius ffs!

I'm not gonna get an A3 any time soon of course, only had my Passat a year. Next car would likely be a Bluemotion Golf. Second car gets used for long motorway trips around work, and it needs to have a towbar for bike rack duties and also towing. I'd be a little concerned about the towing ability of a bluemotion type car tho.

Just been through all this A3 V Golf thing, ended up with a Golf Mk6 1.4 tsi GT.
I felt that the A3 tdi 140 ps was dark and cramped, bad vis out the rear and nasty 70's style red digital display, hard ride, did not feel that fast, and woolly steering. Also A3 very common on the roads these days

ed34 - Member
Different people prefer different things in cars so you cant really say 'x' car is crap compared to 'y' car as they may look for different things in it than you would (eg rear wheel drive wouldnt attract me at all as i'm not really bothered that its supposed to handle better, thats not my number 1 priority)

At least somebody gets it.

Lots of people go on about this car or that car isn't a "driver's car" or doesn't handle well. I drive about 17000 miles a year but whenever I check my on board computer the average speed is around 30-40 mph. Therefore, I don't need the best handling car in the world. Might be a different story if I was doing regular track days or hooning around country lanes, but I'm not.

Most important things to me are reliability, build quality, 0-60/30-70 and what the car looks like.

I had a Ford Fiesta hire car for a week last month. It was OK, but felt flimsy. It could've handled like a Ferrari but I wouldn't want to own a car that flimsy.

Surf Mat. Good job you don't have one then!

Mine may look like an RS4 but it was about £25k less (second hand prices)

Yes the suspension is stiff but so is the suspension on my brothers 123 BMW. Harshness is the trade off for decent handling on twisty roads.

Surf-mat you are quite right about honda diesels not being that reliable. I think that the i-cdti a great first time effort for Honda but they got some things wrong. Clutches go too often and gearboxes sometimes have problems. Exhuast manifolds eventually crack and turbo's have a way of letting go too. Nothing disaterous but average for Tdi's. Certainly not as bullit proof as honda petrol engines, although I'm sure Honda have sorted these issues for the next genreation. That's why mines getting traded in on saturday but I'm going for another diesel estate, an auto this time.

even with big engines, they still have dull and lifeless handling (apart from the R8).

Have you driven the entire range (including the R8), or are you just regurgitating what you've read elsewhere? Genuinely curious like.

When I have an R8 I will consider my life a success. That is all I'm going to contribute to this thread!

Mat, maybe you have more of an issue with Audi drivers than the cars themselves as you appear keen to judge people by their ownership of them rather than limiting your dislike of Audi to the cars themselves - hence, the chip on shoulder comment. Do you think all people with piercings or tattoos are thugs?

By the way, I don't own "an" Audi, I own 2 (8 year old Allroad, 1 week old TT). And a Mercedes (16 year old E-Class). I also have piercings and tattoos. Please judge me as you wish.

Harshness is the trade off for decent handling on twisty roads.

No it isn't and the A4 (FWD) doesn't handle decently. It understeers and crashed all over the place. Plenty of cars handle very well but aren't harsh - a Focus being a good example.

My cousin has an A6 2.7TDI S-Line on 19" wheels. What should be a comfy cruiser is actually a shockingly crashy PITA with horrible FWD that can't cope with the engine's torque. His kids hate sitting in the back.

Your brother's 123d would be a lot less harsh if he stuck non run flat tyres on - I swapped mine over and the ride was transformed. It also handles brilliantly on twisty roads...;-)

I also have piercings and tattoos. Please judge me as you wish.

And to think, I thought you were alright! How wrong I was.

Whilst we're on the subject of handling vs comfort, I did wonder what would happen if I put say an Eibach spring kit on my Passat. Is it possible to lower it a bit and stiffen it up without sacrificing much if any comfort?

Have you driven the entire range (including the R8), or are you just regurgitating what you've read elsewhere? Genuinely curious like.

A mate has an R8, I have driven loads of Audis inclusing the S3, RS4, S4 and loads of lesser FWD models so yes I have and no I don't regurgitate car mags.

Mike - part of it is annoyance. Dad had three uR Quattros and they were utterly brilliant. If anyone was going to be a lifelong Audi fan it would be me - but since the mid 90s they have just churned out average handling cars that they charge big money for. And yes this does mean a lot of drivers feel the need to prove themselves (as with earlier BMWs) and feel the need to drive very badly/aggressively. It's a shame but apart from their "halo" models (even lots of those handle badly), the are just overpriced Seats/Skodas/VWs.

If I wanted a FWD comfy car with a bit of space and a bit of poke, I'd get a Volvo.

Mike - ermmm - I don't give two hoots about stuff like that. My sister has a pierced tongue and tattoos - who cares?

Molgrips - Yep that's the way my motoring is drifting these day, New car is some way off for me too, I don’t think I’ll be looking at a Prius but I think “Real world fuel economy” coupled with basic functional features (Boot space, Roof rails/Tow bar) in a Comfortable, Drivable package is all I really want/need…

Make/model isn’t an issue for me, and from what your say it’s not for you either but as a Aesthete the environment you’re in makes a difference to your enjoyment/comfort when driving so a reasonable interior is a significant point for you, Hence you’re considering the Audi, Right? if that’s the case then I reckon it does have some value over other VAG Units but don’t totally count VW/Skoda/Seat out on that front with some selective use of the options I reckon you could have a similar level of comfort/finish for a touch less spend…

Surf Mat. Have you actually had an Audi? You seem to have strong views against them.

I'm off to my sisters to drive her Porsche turbo, but you'll probably say thats crap too....

And yes this does mean a lot of drivers feel the need to prove themselves (as with earlier BMWs) and feel the need to drive very badly/aggressively

I disagree. I think a lot of Audis are driven badly because they are driven by reps who cover 50k miles a year. Familiarity does breed contempt, and mostly they just want to get home fast after a day being assertive and forthright in their sales meetings. Hence the angry driving 🙂

Cokeaa - right on. I dunno about less speed from the other VAG cars since they still have the same engines. And to be honest, the cost is a factor. I mean Audis can be pretty but if it's a case of a fully loaded VW versus a base Audi, I think I'd go for the VW because I do like equippment.

Although if a Prius could tow, I'd have two - of the new model. Fuel economy as good as the best eco diesels (in that size class) but petrol rather than diesel. Which is less energy intenstive to make apparently, and much cleaner at the tailpipe. And often cheaper.

Re other VAG cars - I find Skodas a bit ugly inside and out (my mate had a recent Octy and I didn't like the look of it at all), and I did test drive Seat when I was looking last year. They were an iteration behind VW and it showed. Older PD engines, and the Altea had loads of wind noise and was just.. plain. All the cars were plain really apart from the Honda Civic, and the VWs which looked and felt nice and classy inside. Which is ironic because Passats are 10/1p down here.

And yes this does mean a lot of drivers feel the need to prove themselves (as with earlier BMWs) and feel the need to drive very badly/aggressively

Hmmmm, you've driven the full range of Audis, on a track presumably in order to ascertain the handling is inadequate? Or were you on public roads in an RS4/RS6/R8 pushing the limits? In which case I would you fall into the category of drivers above.

People who tend to drive like ****ts will drive like a ****t regardless what car they're in.

I should know, as I used to drive like a ****t, but then I got married, had kids and calmed down (not had a speeding ticket for over 9 years).

The folks had an A4 and it was just about the least reliable car they ever owned, it started to go wrong about a month out of the factory when the heat matrix went on the blip, it leaked coolant for all of it's eight year life despite visiting the garage on many occasions. The engine management warning light kept on coming on with no apparent problems as did the brake warning light, once again several trips to the garage didn't sort the problem out. Toward the end of ownership it started leaking oil as well as coolant, the brakes also started screetching terribly, again sent back to the garage who couldn't sort it out. As by this stage warning lights were coming on all the time, fluids leaking all the time, hideous brake noise all the time we got fed up and got rid. On an unrelated note my brothers VW polo of 2002 vintage blew the head gasket after about 30,000 miles of carefull driving leaving the engine un financially viable to repaire so VAG group cars arn't at the top of my list for reliability which is a shame as thats why we bought them in the first place! However, Just got a VRS (third time lucky) for a lot less than the equivalently specced VW, or Audi and hence it has a better engine spec etc and if you can get over the skoda bit it's really good.
Iain