[Closed] Audi

ZaskarCarbon - Member
I think a lot of people's perceptions of Audi/Beemer drivers comes from the fact that they are driving a car which is, essentially, no better than an equivalent Ford

Ford's are OK, but not in the same league as Honda, Audi or BMW. You're kidding yourself if you think an "equivalent" Ford is better than the corresponding Audi or BMW. Better value, maybe. But a better car overall, never.

i own a 120d - the best car I have owned. I wouldn't change it for any other car in the same price range on sale today.

Ford's are OK, but not in the same league as Honda, Audi or BMW. You're kidding yourself if you think an "equivalent" Ford is better than the corresponding Audi or BMW. Better value, maybe. But a better car overall, never.

You don't really know your cars do you?

This statement may have applied 10+ years ago but not today.

A Ford Focus or Mondeo (or Fiesta) has a brilliant chassis - they handle better than any FWD Audi and modern Honda. They are also reliable and well made with a good spec as standard.

Statements like the above are made by those with no idea. An Audi (apart from the fast models) is just an expensive Skoda/Seat/VW. The high prices are justified by huge hype and because they have a "nice dashboard" (too fussy IMO). Unless you want/need a big engine and AWD then buying an Audi is all about image over substance - even with big engines, they still have dull and lifeless handling (apart from the R8).

Apart from the B7 RS4, the current S3, S4 and R8, I haven't liked Audis for many years.

Hondas current range is just dull and the diesels kill gearboxes and clutches way too often. The current CTR is also a major "miss" compared to the last one.

BMWs are genuinely a bit different - all RWD (or AWD), all well balanced, all with good steering. Some models are pretty cack (ahem X1, X3, some tiny engined diesels, the 5er GT, etc) but at least BMW make a genuine effort to build a drivers car rather than just badging up a cheapo chassis and pretending it's a sign of success.

I reckon the interiors on more upmarket cars are nicer than the cheaper ones. This is quite important to me. It's about aesthetics rather than image.. and this is a personal thing! (so you can't tell me I'm wrong 😉 )

I also like the diesel Civic, didn't find it dull at all 🙂

But I don't think there's any point in comparing Honda to BMW as they are most definitely in a different market segment!

I'd not have an Audi. As others have said, you get a fairly standard VAG platform with rock hard suspension and a nice interior. To me the clear new choices if you want something that sort of size are the MK6 GTI, MK3 Scirroco or a 3 series.

I'd not say BMW and Audi are in the same class simply because BMWs have rear wheel drive, which makes a big difference. And BMW have fantastic engines - power and economy, rather than just economy.

However, you clearly have very different priorities to me if you're considering a 1.6 TDI A3. It'll be slow, and if I had it, it'd be thirsty because it'd be going flat out in order to make a bit of progress. To me, a car has to be reliable, drive well, and as for the interior, I want good seats and switches where I can reach them. So long as the interior isn't made of recycled CD boxes, I'm happy.

This is all getting a bit aggressive again isn't it? Blimey.

At the end of the day, some people like Audis. They aren't wrong. Some people like Skodas. They aren't wrong. Some people like Rovers.

i test drove a new 1.6 tdi golf which will have the same engine as the audi and its not slow! But then again i'm past all the boy racer hooning round country road type things, i gave up on all that in cars once i discovered motorbikes (now past all that as well) To me the interior of a car is important, i'd rather have a nice inside where i sit and a resonable engine than a plasticy dash and a super fast boy racer engine.

I prefer audis as i like the interior compared to skoda / VW / fords, and i know they are pricier but i usually keep my cars 10+ years so am not really bothered about a few extra thousand over that time scale. Might not buy another, that depends on the quality of the interiors of other cars next time i change, but when i got my A3 a few years ago it had a much nicer interior than fords, hondas, golfs, skodas etc

Different people prefer different things in cars so you cant really say 'x' car is crap compared to 'y' car as they may look for different things in it than you would (eg rear wheel drive wouldnt attract me at all as i'm not really bothered that its supposed to handle better, thats not my number 1 priority)

Edit - +1 mastiles_fanylion. At the end of the day its an individuals choice, like anything else in life eg houses, bikes, clothes.

In terms of fuel economy I think my next car will have to be a reasonable ~2.0L Turbo diesel of some sort, with Cruise control and a 6 speed gear box, probably Golf Estate sized or larger, the cruise control and gear box are simply for motorway economy, sensible steady speeds with a “torquey” engine and a higher ratio top gear seem to help there (Our family car has to do plenty of motorway miles either with Child and associated gubbins or as a bike transporter) Such a car can still be enjoyable and economical on my Daily A road Commute too I reckon…

I’m fast coming to the conclusion that smaller petrol engines (1.6 or less) are a false economy unless you put them in something extra tiny and therefore light to optimise your “power to weight ratio”…
Bigger petrol engines are just naturally thirsty, only really worth getting if all you plan to do is boot the thing hard everywhere and exit this world in a blaze of (upside down through a central reservation) glory…

For a day in day out car that’s moderately enjoyable to drive, has a boot and back seats you can use and thus weighs getting on for 2te, I think you need to seriously consider what is under the bonnet as counter intuitive as it may sound I reckon you’d get better overall fuel economy out of a 2.0”TDi” that just about a 1.6/1.4 “FSi” engined equivalent and a more enjoyable drive as you’ve not climbing up and down the gears and screaming the arse off of it simply to keep sensible A Road speeds…

Irrespective of make or list price I think those are good criteria to use when looking at a car (If it’s for personal use only)…. Then again your usage might be quite different to mine.
What is your main usage going to be if you get this A3?

[i].. you can't tell me I'm wrong [/i]

Exactly. I can't see a debate! You like the car, you buy the car. Sod other opinions.

Some people like Rovers.

Do they? 😆 😉

I reckon you’d get better overall fuel economy out of a 2.0”TDi” that just about a 1.6/1.4 “FSi” engined equivalent

Quite possibly, but over their life, Diesels can chuck out some horrible unexpected bills. I'd not have another for that reason.

Surf-Mat - Member
rather than just badging up a cheapo chassis and pretending it's a sign of success

People might take your comments more seriously/objectively if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder 🙄

I have had an 06 A4 Avant S line Tdi 140bhp and it is a great car, it gives me 650 to 700 miles to a tank of fuel (driving between 60/ 70mph), the leather interior is very comfortable the Bose stereo sounds great and the S Line body kit makes the car. I've had a couple of VW passats in the past which were bigger inside but though similar the Audi is nicer.

this only "cocks drive an Audi" is rubbish usually coming from people who either have a ford or citron which they have stuck a big pipe on and a spoiler.... or they want an Audi

Get one you won't be disappointed

Diesels can chuck out some horrible unexpected bills. I'd not have another for that reason.

Fair point, depends how long you keep it and how frequently you get all "enthusiastic" when driving it...

Quite possibly, but over their life, Diesels can chuck out some horrible unexpected bills. I'd not have another for that reason.

Bit if a sweeping statement there - some diesels have been bad news (swirl flaps went on my 38k mile 1.9CDTi Astra - luckily under warranty - a major issue), others are rock solid with no problems at all. A few early issues with common rail diesels which are under immense pressure, have been ironed out - not many are popping now and generally it's just four cylinder ones which are gay anyway.

People might take your comments more seriously/objectively if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder

Chip? Where? About Audis being overpriced and not that good? Why is that a chip? Or do you have an Audi by any chance?

Captain - a 140bhp car made to look like a 414bhp RS4 with oversized alloys and crashy overhard suspension - not my cup of tea at all...

Surf-Mat - Member
Some people like Rovers.
Do they?

Cokeaa, I'm with you. If you are interested in fuel economy and not about power, then the bluemotion/other eco versioned cars are worth a look. The Passat one is big, comfy, refined and does 65mpg apparently in the real world.

True about the big engined petrol cars too but remember that the TFSi is a small engined petrol with a turbo that can be switched on and off. So you cruise as a small engined car and then when you boot it, it's like a big engined car. And they have a lot more lower down torque too which means you don't have to rev their nuts off.

Mat - the chip n your shoulder seems to be because you keep mentioning image. Why would anyone think I was discussing Audi because I care about 'image'? My other car's a Prius ffs!

I'm not gonna get an A3 any time soon of course, only had my Passat a year. Next car would likely be a Bluemotion Golf. Second car gets used for long motorway trips around work, and it needs to have a towbar for bike rack duties and also towing. I'd be a little concerned about the towing ability of a bluemotion type car tho.

Just been through all this A3 V Golf thing, ended up with a Golf Mk6 1.4 tsi GT.
I felt that the A3 tdi 140 ps was dark and cramped, bad vis out the rear and nasty 70's style red digital display, hard ride, did not feel that fast, and woolly steering. Also A3 very common on the roads these days

ed34 - Member
Different people prefer different things in cars so you cant really say 'x' car is crap compared to 'y' car as they may look for different things in it than you would (eg rear wheel drive wouldnt attract me at all as i'm not really bothered that its supposed to handle better, thats not my number 1 priority)

At least somebody gets it.

Lots of people go on about this car or that car isn't a "driver's car" or doesn't handle well. I drive about 17000 miles a year but whenever I check my on board computer the average speed is around 30-40 mph. Therefore, I don't need the best handling car in the world. Might be a different story if I was doing regular track days or hooning around country lanes, but I'm not.

Most important things to me are reliability, build quality, 0-60/30-70 and what the car looks like.

I had a Ford Fiesta hire car for a week last month. It was OK, but felt flimsy. It could've handled like a Ferrari but I wouldn't want to own a car that flimsy.

Surf Mat. Good job you don't have one then!

Mine may look like an RS4 but it was about £25k less (second hand prices)

Yes the suspension is stiff but so is the suspension on my brothers 123 BMW. Harshness is the trade off for decent handling on twisty roads.

Surf-mat you are quite right about honda diesels not being that reliable. I think that the i-cdti a great first time effort for Honda but they got some things wrong. Clutches go too often and gearboxes sometimes have problems. Exhuast manifolds eventually crack and turbo's have a way of letting go too. Nothing disaterous but average for Tdi's. Certainly not as bullit proof as honda petrol engines, although I'm sure Honda have sorted these issues for the next genreation. That's why mines getting traded in on saturday but I'm going for another diesel estate, an auto this time.

even with big engines, they still have dull and lifeless handling (apart from the R8).

Have you driven the entire range (including the R8), or are you just regurgitating what you've read elsewhere? Genuinely curious like.

When I have an R8 I will consider my life a success. That is all I'm going to contribute to this thread!

Mat, maybe you have more of an issue with Audi drivers than the cars themselves as you appear keen to judge people by their ownership of them rather than limiting your dislike of Audi to the cars themselves - hence, the chip on shoulder comment. Do you think all people with piercings or tattoos are thugs?

By the way, I don't own "an" Audi, I own 2 (8 year old Allroad, 1 week old TT). And a Mercedes (16 year old E-Class). I also have piercings and tattoos. Please judge me as you wish.

Harshness is the trade off for decent handling on twisty roads.

No it isn't and the A4 (FWD) doesn't handle decently. It understeers and crashed all over the place. Plenty of cars handle very well but aren't harsh - a Focus being a good example.

My cousin has an A6 2.7TDI S-Line on 19" wheels. What should be a comfy cruiser is actually a shockingly crashy PITA with horrible FWD that can't cope with the engine's torque. His kids hate sitting in the back.

Your brother's 123d would be a lot less harsh if he stuck non run flat tyres on - I swapped mine over and the ride was transformed. It also handles brilliantly on twisty roads...;-)

I also have piercings and tattoos. Please judge me as you wish.

And to think, I thought you were alright! How wrong I was.

Whilst we're on the subject of handling vs comfort, I did wonder what would happen if I put say an Eibach spring kit on my Passat. Is it possible to lower it a bit and stiffen it up without sacrificing much if any comfort?

Have you driven the entire range (including the R8), or are you just regurgitating what you've read elsewhere? Genuinely curious like.

A mate has an R8, I have driven loads of Audis inclusing the S3, RS4, S4 and loads of lesser FWD models so yes I have and no I don't regurgitate car mags.

Mike - part of it is annoyance. Dad had three uR Quattros and they were utterly brilliant. If anyone was going to be a lifelong Audi fan it would be me - but since the mid 90s they have just churned out average handling cars that they charge big money for. And yes this does mean a lot of drivers feel the need to prove themselves (as with earlier BMWs) and feel the need to drive very badly/aggressively. It's a shame but apart from their "halo" models (even lots of those handle badly), the are just overpriced Seats/Skodas/VWs.

If I wanted a FWD comfy car with a bit of space and a bit of poke, I'd get a Volvo.

Mike - ermmm - I don't give two hoots about stuff like that. My sister has a pierced tongue and tattoos - who cares?

Molgrips - Yep that's the way my motoring is drifting these day, New car is some way off for me too, I don’t think I’ll be looking at a Prius but I think “Real world fuel economy” coupled with basic functional features (Boot space, Roof rails/Tow bar) in a Comfortable, Drivable package is all I really want/need…

Make/model isn’t an issue for me, and from what your say it’s not for you either but as a Aesthete the environment you’re in makes a difference to your enjoyment/comfort when driving so a reasonable interior is a significant point for you, Hence you’re considering the Audi, Right? if that’s the case then I reckon it does have some value over other VAG Units but don’t totally count VW/Skoda/Seat out on that front with some selective use of the options I reckon you could have a similar level of comfort/finish for a touch less spend…

Surf Mat. Have you actually had an Audi? You seem to have strong views against them.

I'm off to my sisters to drive her Porsche turbo, but you'll probably say thats crap too....

And yes this does mean a lot of drivers feel the need to prove themselves (as with earlier BMWs) and feel the need to drive very badly/aggressively

I disagree. I think a lot of Audis are driven badly because they are driven by reps who cover 50k miles a year. Familiarity does breed contempt, and mostly they just want to get home fast after a day being assertive and forthright in their sales meetings. Hence the angry driving 🙂

Cokeaa - right on. I dunno about less speed from the other VAG cars since they still have the same engines. And to be honest, the cost is a factor. I mean Audis can be pretty but if it's a case of a fully loaded VW versus a base Audi, I think I'd go for the VW because I do like equippment.

Although if a Prius could tow, I'd have two - of the new model. Fuel economy as good as the best eco diesels (in that size class) but petrol rather than diesel. Which is less energy intenstive to make apparently, and much cleaner at the tailpipe. And often cheaper.

Re other VAG cars - I find Skodas a bit ugly inside and out (my mate had a recent Octy and I didn't like the look of it at all), and I did test drive Seat when I was looking last year. They were an iteration behind VW and it showed. Older PD engines, and the Altea had loads of wind noise and was just.. plain. All the cars were plain really apart from the Honda Civic, and the VWs which looked and felt nice and classy inside. Which is ironic because Passats are 10/1p down here.

And yes this does mean a lot of drivers feel the need to prove themselves (as with earlier BMWs) and feel the need to drive very badly/aggressively

Hmmmm, you've driven the full range of Audis, on a track presumably in order to ascertain the handling is inadequate? Or were you on public roads in an RS4/RS6/R8 pushing the limits? In which case I would you fall into the category of drivers above.

People who tend to drive like ****ts will drive like a ****t regardless what car they're in.

I should know, as I used to drive like a ****t, but then I got married, had kids and calmed down (not had a speeding ticket for over 9 years).

The folks had an A4 and it was just about the least reliable car they ever owned, it started to go wrong about a month out of the factory when the heat matrix went on the blip, it leaked coolant for all of it's eight year life despite visiting the garage on many occasions. The engine management warning light kept on coming on with no apparent problems as did the brake warning light, once again several trips to the garage didn't sort the problem out. Toward the end of ownership it started leaking oil as well as coolant, the brakes also started screetching terribly, again sent back to the garage who couldn't sort it out. As by this stage warning lights were coming on all the time, fluids leaking all the time, hideous brake noise all the time we got fed up and got rid. On an unrelated note my brothers VW polo of 2002 vintage blew the head gasket after about 30,000 miles of carefull driving leaving the engine un financially viable to repaire so VAG group cars arn't at the top of my list for reliability which is a shame as thats why we bought them in the first place! However, Just got a VRS (third time lucky) for a lot less than the equivalently specced VW, or Audi and hence it has a better engine spec etc and if you can get over the skoda bit it's really good.
Iain

I'm driving through France tomorrow night in my parents' RS6 😀

Sure it doesn't handle like sports car, but it still isn't exactly a blancmange....

Doesn't really matter with 444bhp and bucketloads of torque on N and A roads anyway 😈

FWIW, I wouldn't buy a lower priced audi over most of their rivals, especially the 2.0 TDi models, bleuurgh!

Leggy blonde - take plenty of money for the envitable fines and amount of petrol you will use.

I'll contact your dad about having the speed limiter put on!

I'll stick to my humble diesel estate 🙂

It's already limited 🙁 We're sharing the driving with 2 hour stints, and he's bringing his credit card!

HAve you bought something new then Tony? I have a love/hate relationship with my Laguna estate

Captain - what Porsche Turbo? Could be a 944, 911, Cayenne or a few others. Porkers are most definitely not crap - a 997 Turbo S is my dream "slightly realistic" car in fact.

I've not had an Audi but I've tested many assuming I'd want one - to date, none so far. Plus driven mates/relatives and hired a few.

I like a huge number of cars from Micras (underrated) and Fiestas to Porsches and Range Rovers. I just don't "get" the last 15 years of Audi models.

Leggy - enjoy! Lovely sounding engine.

Hmm, I have driven a newer model Micra and thought it was rubbish...

Iain gilliam - sounds like you were going to a rubbish garage if they kept not being able to fix stuff.

yep leggy blonde - pm me

I used to have an Audi, it just felt like someone at the airline was going to tell you you couldn't use it cos you needed special Audi air, which you could only get at the dealers, for £200, In 3 weeks time.

I do like the "look" of Audis, even the pimped up lower power models.

However, the few that I have test driven - and I admit, not current A3 and A4 models, were disappointedly uninvolving. For my first company car I chose a Fiat Bravo over and A3 (!!) and later a 3 series over an A4. 156SW was better than all 4 of those though 😉

TBH I'd err on the side of styling vs power anyway - too few occasions when the bhp can be called in to play. Id rather have an engaging fun car upto 70-80, rather than a technical and power tour de force that only shines at 130+

The German cars that I have owned (3 series, C class, mk5 Gti) have all been brilliantly capable - but that capability has been their undoing.... not enough fun on normal speeds / roads.

On the other hand, the French and Italian cars I've owned have not measured up to the Germans in terms of build quality, but have all been hugely entertaining.

Buy a car thats comfortable to you.
Crashy horrible ride is not a function of stiff suspension, my 993 is the most comfortable car I've ever been in and its a sports car. My S3 is slightly crashy on rough roads but the r32 i had for 2 days was worse, more noise, painful to drive, Golf R was the same. And our roads are sh1te.

So i bought the blue one because my wife liked the colour and quite frankly i'm not jackie stewart so i'll leave my hardcore driving for the porsche and the track thanks.

Its much easier here because ALL drivers are sh1te, honestly.

NZ - I really enjoyed driving in NZ, especially on the South Island. Had a 2.0 Honda Accord but wish we'd had something pokier!