[Closed] Apple? where and why did it all go wrong??

GrahamS - Member

....and now have the perspective to appreciate the joy and freedom of devices that just work.

I don't understand this 'just works' phrase when comparing Apple stuff to other stuff, in a manner that implies if it's not Apple it doesn't 'just work'.

I'm only on my second Android phone, as is my wife - but all four of those have 'just worked' - 1 HTC, 1 Sony & 2 Samsungs). my first Android phone I kept for 3 and a half years, my current one is 18 months old.

Both of our LG Android tablets 'just work'.

My current Acer laptop with Win7 'just works' and has done for almost the last 4 years.
My Wife's Dell laptop is now with my parents and 'just works' and it must be at least 8 years old now.
My old desktop was [s]about 6 years old[/s] EDIT - getting on for 9 years old when I sold it on eBay. It still 'just worked' but we didn't need it anymore and sold it to a bloke who wanted it for his photography business.

I am not particularly computer savvy - I know my way around the basics and can Goggle a problem, if it crops up. But I just want to use stuff, not tinker with it. I haven't had to with any of this stuff.

Do we have a winner yet?

[img] [/img]

Do we have a winner yet?

Apple shareholders seem to be holding an edge on the Microsoft lot, although BillG is still in the ring and smiling.

I have always had ipods but at the same time had reservations on a lot of the apple stuff as I thought the hardware was overpriced for the spec offered. I always built my own PC's so thought the componentry used (although v nicely packaged) was way below spec considering the asking price.

Saying that I am largely consigned to use a Windows PC anyway as I need one for software development. I have as yet never had an iPhone but this may change as am being given one for work. I think this may be a shock to the system as I have had Android phones since they first released the operating system.

I agree with the comment that Windows has upped it's game with regards to it's PC Operating systems and that might have tightened the gap rather than Apple losing it's way.

For anyone who likes to fiddle with computers
Why would you want to do that?

Is there any valid reason for not have sd card slots on apple mobile devices or is it purely to make you buy a more expensive model?

I don't understand this 'just works' phrase when comparing Apple stuff to other stuff, in a manner that implies if it's not Apple it doesn't 'just work'.

Apple's vision is/was (supposedly) to make complicated/clever devices into "white goods" simple enough to be accessible to non-geeks. Historically speaking they have done pretty well at that and that's where the "Just Works" thing comes from (as well as the "walled garden" approach).

I completely agree with you that Android/Google are making excellent headway into "Just Works" too. You can see this with the growth in Android and the popularity of simplified "Just Works" devices/systems like Chromecast.

Not too many years ago Android discussion threads were dominated by people discussing custom rom images, task managers, multi-threading etc. You don't see that nearly as much now, except in geeky forums, and that's probably a good thing.

But as for Windows: it has got better but did your Windows boxes [i]really[/i] "Just Work"?
Or are you ignoring stuff like installing anti-virus/malware software, weekly Windows updates, constantly needing to manually update your other software, and assorted fiddling with things to get them right?

But as for Windows: it has got better but did your Windows boxes really "Just Work"?

Yep. Windows updates aren't something you have to do to maintain - they happen automatically too.

As for manually updating other software - a) that doesn't happen to me and b) how's that MS's fault?

No fiddling required for W7 and W8 afaik.

I don't understand this 'just works' phrase when comparing Apple stuff to other stuff, in a manner that implies if it's not Apple it doesn't 'just work'.

Never underestimate what Apple achieved.

Graphic Designers have always been able to use Apples, without difficulty. And this has then revolutionised the industry

Previously, anything more complicated than felt tips completely baffled us. If someone had approached the design profession and started talking about operating systems, never mind some of the frankly baffling twoddle that is the common parlance of IT spods, we'd have just done this....

then gone to the pub

Is there any valid reason for not have sd card slots on apple mobile devices or is it purely to make you buy a more expensive model?

I'm sure that making you buy a more expensive model is a big part of it. The pricing tiers of different capacity Apples products are many magnitudes greater than the actual cost of that capacity.

But... it is also about keeping it simple.

If you have removable storage then you have to present that to the user somehow. They need to think about where they are storing files and apps. And as an OS vendor (or app writer) you need to cope with things like someone trying to access an image/document/app that is stored on a different SD card or even the user pulling out an SD card while you are busy accessing it.

Little complications that add up to a more complicated user experience.

It's perhaps telling that a lot of Android models no longer have removable storage on them either.

The pricing tiers of different capacity Apples products are many magnitudes greater than the actual cost of that capacity.

And as an OS vendor (or app writer) you need to cope with things like someone trying to access an image/document/app that is stored on a different SD card or even the user pulling out an SD card while you are busy accessing it.

Most Android phones default to saving on the phone don't they? So the card only comes into it if you put one in and then start wanting to do things with it..?

Windows updates aren't something you have to do to maintain - they happen automatically too.

Yep - and then they automatically reboot my machine to install them 👿

Just popping out to lunch for twenty minutes. I'll leave the PC on...

[img] [/img]

Gee thanks Microsoft.

As for manually updating other software - a) that doesn't happen to me and b) how's that MS's fault?

a) so you don't get constant updates for third-party things like browsers, flash, Adobe Reader, Java, photoshop etc etc?

b) well, for example, the OS could provide a centralised way for all applications to get their updates from an approved source and then silently apply them, as iOS (and I assume Android) does.

I'd also add - but I can and do drag and drop (all kinds of) files into my iOS device. I just use iTunes to do so rather than a file manager. Just a different bit of software.

And in fact, for the ubuntu fans out there you can just plug in an iOS device and access it via the file manager, and drag and drop etc.

And it's not necessarily better in Android. E.g. to use an example I'm familiar with, plug in an HTC One...no drag and drop there.

Mostly I just sync via the cloud though, and don't drag and drop at all.

Last thing I want to do is have to fiddle with my home pc or phone or TV streamer.

Plus by recommending Apple stuff to everyone I have cut my "tech support" role to virtually nothing except the odd problem that can usually be resolved in seconds. (I always recommend people stick to Mountain Lion or even Snow Leopard and iOS 7 for right now unless they really need some new feature though - agree that the latest software releases have been a huge **** up).

GrahamS - Member

Not too many years ago Android discussion threads were dominated by people discussing custom rom images, task managers, multi-threading etc. You don't see that nearly as much now, except in geeky forums, and that's probably a good thing.

But as for Windows: it has got better but did your Windows boxes really "Just Work"?
Or are you ignoring stuff like installing anti-virus/malware software, weekly Windows updates, constantly needing to manually update your other software, and assorted fiddling with things to get them right?

Your comment about previous Android geekiness....
This has always been stuff that you COULD do or talk about but DIDN'T HAVE TO DO. Apart from knowing that a custom ROM can be put on my Android phone, I don't really know what advantage it would bring, how to do it or why I would want to do it. But my devices still work fine.

Task managers - erm, nope. Never used one of those; doesn't Android do all that itself? Not an an issue for the 4 phones/2 tablets I have had use of.

Multi-threading - again. Nope. Dunno what that is and how it affects Android.....? Do I need to?

Sounds like 'Max Power' type stuff.
You don't have to know about remaps/K&N filters/custom stainless exhausts/high lift cams etc. for your car to function - but if you want to be a car geek and get into all that, then go ahead.

With regards to the Windows stuff....
anti-virus; stick a disc in or download something and click install. Same for malware etc. Even my parents managed this on their own.

Windows updates - you don't have to do anything. It just downloads stuff and installs it. You can schedule it for a convenient time, or get it to tell you when a download is available and then prompt it to download when you are ready, rather than having it download automatically.
I've always just left it to do what it wants.

manually update other software - the only thing I can think of that required manually updating was CrapCleaner. But I chose to install that and it's freeware. So, them sending me an e-mail and saying 'a new version is available' and me pressing the download button is hardly difficult. And you don't NEED that software, I just like to use it.

Fiddling with things to get them right....I had to fiddle with our router settings once, as they just disappeared for some reason. Took about 10mins to get working again.

My new 27" all singing, all dancing iMac is great to use. Best one I've had so far and no software glitches in the 6 months or so I've been using it. Still using an iPhone 3GS that's now over 5 years old and still works just fine. Keep thinking of upgrading it, but it does everything a phone needs to do. My wife has an iPhone 4 which is nowhere near as robust, but it still works after 3 years even though the glass back has shattered and it got dropped in the shower once.

So no loss of Apple love in our house.

a) so you don't get constant updates for third-party things like browsers, flash, Adobe Reader, Java, photoshop etc etc?

Constant? No. And they're automatic rather than manual. Ok so the Java one requesting admin privs to do a check is annoying.

A central update repository - like Windows update? It does do some third party software afaik. Some stuff that's bundled with and integrated into the OS... like that other thing you know, the one with the fruit..

Apple Macbook at home, Windows laptop at work, and an Android Phone.

Jamie - Freeloader!
Do we have a winner yet?

They are all brilliant. They all "just work", and they play nicely too. Humanity won, and then we looked around for something to argue about.

Its a mystery to me why Apple has the market capitalisation it has. If Apple and its products disappeared overnight most people would quickly find alternatives and get on with their jobs and lives. Nothing Apple makes is mission critical to running a modern economy. However if Microsoft or Oracle and their products disappeared overnight that would be a different matter.

100!

Jobs died, without him it's just another nerd company doing things for nerds.

Apart from knowing that a custom ROM can be put on my Android phone, I don't really know what advantage it would bring, how to do it or why I would want to do it. But my devices still work fine.

Good. That and your other points about Android show what progress it has made towards the "Just Works" mentality.

Go back five years and it was a very different story.

manually update other software - the only thing I can think of that required manually updating was CrapCleaner.

Really? Go start Adobe Reader and tell me what version you are on. Because if you have never updated it then you have some pretty massive and heavily exploited holes in your system.

Plus the fact that you even feel the need to use "CrapCleaner" on a system you say "Just Works" speaks volumes!

them sending me an e-mail and saying 'a new version is available' and me pressing the download button is hardly difficult.

So how did you know that email was legitimate and not directing you to malware? Did you check the site certificate? Look at the hash of the downloaded file?

That might seem daft but less tech-literate folk (like my parents or in-laws) regularly get caught out by phishing emails or browser pop-ups saying [i]"Your software is out of date. Click here to update it."[/i]

My wife has an iPhone 4 which is nowhere near as robust, but it still works after 3 years even though the glass back has shattered and it got dropped in the shower once.

It's a sub-2 minute job to replace that if you want.
Literally undo two screws, replace back, tighten two screws.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+4+Rear+Panel+Replacement/3140

Jobs died, without him it's just another nerd company doing things for nerds.

Graham, I feel that you should be congratulated on your dedication to your faith.

😉

I know I come across as an apologist and fanboy but I'm really not IRL. Honestly! 😀

If I was buying my first smartphone today it would be Android based.

Probably.

Assuming I didn't already have an iPad.

Its a mystery to me why Apple has the market capitalisation it has.

Apple has a relatively small (8%?) share of the OS market and similarly small (12%?) in the mobile-OS market. If that's what you meant by 'capitalisation'?

No, they meant value of the company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization

And your numbers, they're by device numbers right? Not say, profit share, mobile web usage, ARPU etc?

Its a mystery to me why Apple has the market capitalisation it has.

Well do you remember what portable music players were like before the iPod? Do you remember what mobile phones were like before the iPhone? Do you remember what tablets were like before the iPad? That's right, they were all shit. Nerds always like to argue that Apple invented none of those things, but they certainly made them desirable to the masses and there's no doubt in my mind that other companies made blatant copies.

Apple are good at making things work in the real world, whether their own or someone else's original idea. Apple make stuff work and then others copy them and sometimes even better them. Even if you are into Samsung, Sony, Microsoft, Android, etc, etc, Apple's influence on the market is obvious throughout.

Device market share is a bit of a non-statistic, as essentially you are comparing a front line flagship phone alongside every budget phone made.

What would be an interesting statistic, is device market share amongst current flagship phones. Maybe cover phones up to 2 years old. I'd like to see that statistic.

zilog6128 - Member

Right, except that's the exact opposite of what they are and what their target market is.

Then..Jobs died and without him it's just another nerd company doing things for nerds.

I am target market and can tell you Google now does what Apple used to do but much better, the devices are now secondary Google drive, maps, docs, chrome, contacts, is all better than the Apple equivalent,

Much better to look at profit, Apple hoovers up more profit from phone sales than any other vendor, even though they sell less.

A new analysis of third-quarter handset industry operating profits estimates that Apple accounted for a massive 86 percent share, blowing away the competition as rivals such as Samsung saw their profit levels dip.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/11/04/apple-continues-to-dominate-with-massive-86-share-of-handset-industry-profits

It appears it's not all roses on the Android update side of the fence...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30116319

It appears it's not all roses on the Android update side of the fence...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30116319
br />

They must be trying to mimic the Apple updates.

They must be trying to mimic the Apple updates.

Well they copy everything else.

GrahamS - You do know that you can postpone the reboot for 4 hours at a time right? You did click on the little drop down menu to stop it hassling you right?

As for Acrobat Reader, sorry whatnow? Foxit every time, much sleeker and easier to live with.

On repositories, Ubuntu (and debian in general) really does have the edge, for all its faults that I couldn't live with that was its one great strength. Writing a code to run dual monitor with one at 90deg to normal from boot every time was the killer though. I'm out.

Back to 7, which just works. Only thing I really need to concern myself with is graphics updates which to be fair are only because I use it for gaming.

Finally, does anyone know how to save a PDF in Safari on the iPad? Because every single "expert" on the apple support forums still suggests saving it to a program that, as far as I can see, was removed several OS's ago leaving no option. I mean, it's not like I would want to save a PDF doc to my tablet to then go work [i]offline[/i] is it?!? Seriously, that's all I want and it's doing my head in. Intuitive my hairy arse.

open in ibooks

Just tried to quote you, but couldn't ****ing paste on my iPad/safari. Shite.

I know I come across as an apologist and fanboy but I'm really not IRL. Honestly

😀

Was just using you as a[s]poster boy[/s]n example, Graham! At times, it's almost as if there's a religious zeal with which people talk about something as mundane as their choice of technology. In fact, for many, it seems to be discussed/defended/argued about as if it really were their religion.

I've always hated Apple, from the early iphones with basic features like MMS missing, and the unintuitive interface which required more gestures to do the same thing as an android.

Then they lost there cool status after taking Samsung to court for every patent under the sun and the proceeding years of lawsuits as they tried to establish their appleopoly 😆

open in ibooks
Just tried to quote you, but couldn't **** paste on my iPad/safari. Shite.

Ta Daaaa!

GrahamS - You do know that you can postpone the reboot for 4 hours at a time right?

Indeed. Not really very helpful if it pops that up while you are not actually at the PC though eh? Say in a meeting or, as in my example, at lunch.

Blimmin Windows - at its most annoying when it tries to be helpful.

As for Acrobat Reader, sorry whatnow? Foxit every time, much sleeker and easier to live with.

Adobe is mandated by work. As I understand it FoxIt doesn't support some of the digital signatures and form features we use.

Then..Jobs died and without him it's just another nerd company doing things for nerds.

How do you square that with them being more successful (marketshare , market cap, share price, profit, revenue..take your pick) since then?

I must stop feeding trolls... 😉

Oh I do love my MBP oh yes I do. iTunes is the worst thing I've ever had the mispleasure of using. My ipad is getting on and I'm severely tempted to ditch the iPod, ipad and iPhone and start the change to android.

iTunes is the worst thing I've ever had the mispleasure of using.

I wish they'd just leave the UI alone. It seems to change every time I'm forced to upgrade when I buy a newer iPhone model.

Just tried to quote you, but couldn't **** paste on my iPad/safari. Shite.

Posted from my iPhone. Simple enough.

I wish they'd just leave the UI alone. It seems to change every time I'm force to upgrade when I buy a newer iPhone model.

I hated my MBP but Yosemite seems to have made more stable/usable.

Well, well, some folk ARE able to paste, impressive stuff. It's almost as if bugs affect some people, but not others... 🙄

Well, well, some folk ARE able to paste, impressive stuff. It's almost as if bugs affect some people, but not others...

C+P bug does exist. [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ios-81-on-iphone-5-hows-it-doing#post-6477539 ]As discussed on iOS thread[/url]. So anyone for those it doesn't affect, congrats, but it does exist.

Also, Soylent Green is people.

C+P bug does exist. As discussed on iOS thread. So anyone for those it doesn't affect, congrats, but it does exist

YAY! What do I win?

"Just works" comes from those of us who used Microsoft products for years which frankly didn't work, frequent hangs, crashes and the dreaded BSD, blue screen of death.

As for Apple's market cap, two things hugely profitable now (able to sell premium products in huge size), massive potential (money they can make from Apple Pay could dwarf their other revenues). Apple has something like a 40% market share in developed markets like the US and UK, if they mirror that in other markets their growth potential is exponential.

IMO they make the best products in terms of design, functionality and longevity and I am prepared to pay a premium for that, their desirability means I have good resale value if I want

FWIW I have a Windows Phone (Nokia 520), a Surface RT tablet, an HTPC with Windows 7 and a 6 year old desktop I use for audio recording and photo editing that has Windows 8 on it.

They all work fine, don't crash and weren't too expensive to buy. I also find them very usable - especially the unified search in Windows 8.1 - just start typing what you want to open (program, file, webpage) hit enter and then it's there. So fast!

I've used apple stuff before and it's very good too. Not worth the price increase for me though.

A lot of the difference is that Apple makes software and high end hardware - there aren't any low-end Apple devices.

You can now get PC hardware of the same quality from Microsoft (see their Surface line) as well as other manufacturers (ultrabooks etc). But Tesco will also sell you a Windows tablet for £99.

The difference between the sell on value and the original price is probably about the cost of the android you could have bought instead?

As a non-user of Apple products it's all gone worse for me - last night I sat down at the family Mac and tried to freshen up the music on my iPod with some CDs and a couple of downloads. iTunes is definitely less inituitive and harder to use than a few years ago and to add to my misery the damned stupid mouse and the fancy screen keep doing stuff I don't ask them to do - suddenly the tool bar will disappear off the top, the whole screen shoots off to one side or the picture shrinks down to nothing. Maddeningly too clever for its own good.

These sort if things are going to ebb and flow. Pick your poison.

I've been windows for a long time and I've seen it go good, bad, indifferent, good again and then a bit loopy. But I've always produced good work on the systems, at a small fraction of price to the Mac. We edit 4/5k video and I'm not losing out to any of my Apple piers. But we do save money and have learned a lot about hardware over the years.

Apple who still have good results are bound to eventually go a bit off the blower. How can you not when your so successful?

I think the point is getting lost both in this thread and in the market. Apple captivated people first with a superior graphically led operating system which led many designers like myself in my prior career, to fall in love with the user interface based on its capability. It's second coming was to launch high end desirable devices with fresh idealology that everyone wanted and was prepared to pay a price for.

Bugs in iOS wouldn't be an issue if the competition hadn't caught up. No one cared how slow the original iPod was, or if it had any bugs (although let's face it the functionality was limited) because there was nothing to compare it with. But because the competition has caught up Apple has lost is uniqueness, or its USP in the trade, and therefore it's devices are now compared competivelly to other similar devices on e based of commonality - ie look, feel performance and price. .

Apple is not Nerd, it was designed to be outwardly non-nerd superior technology that just serves its intended purpose. To go back to the Ethos that Jobs created, Apple needs something very, very new that perhaps us and maybe even they dont know about yet to recapture our imagination.

Finally, does anyone know how to save a PDF in Safari on the iPad? Because every single "expert" on the apple support forums still suggests saving it to a program that, as far as I can see, was removed several OS's ago leaving no option. I mean, it's not like I would want to save a PDF doc to my tablet to then go work offline is it?!? Seriously, that's all I want and it's doing my head in. Intuitive my hairy arse.

All sorts of options for you. iBooks being the simplest. Me? I use Dropbox, as then the PDF is available on all my machines straight away, and can control where it's saved, ie file it away in a client/project folder in Dropbox. It is very simple. A child could do it.

@alanf - I don't want a Android device, the Apple stuff IMO is better. I wouldn't care if the Android device was free.

@globalti, all of those things are configurable, from what you say you are resting your hand on the trackpad hence sending the machine commands.

@rone, you are right Apple had a dip but have recovered strongly. If you look at Apple stock vs Microsoft the outperformance has been massive over past few years.

I worked on the UK launch of the original Mac and have used them for work ever since. That has been pretty effortless. A couple of worms in the 90s and that's that. This year has seen us change from our 10 year old towers to Minis and again has been pretty easy. Macs every time for me in a creative environment.
I have an ipod Touch and an iPad but compared with the flexibility of my MotoG phone and Nexus7 they suck big time. So that'll be horses for courses then.

So here's a real question my wife is struggling with;

We have a redundant XP PC with all the peripherals. I say get a mac mini and plug it in (cheaper). She says she wants the 27" sexy monitor...

Same result, different cost?

he he. I think our office had the second LaserWriter in the UK.. £5k IIRC in 1985?
Douglas Adams might have had the first 🙂

We worked with Macs from very early on, certainly 1984 onwards. The level of documentation in Inside Macintosh for example was fantastic.

@Kryton - I have a Mini (since 2009 still used every day). Yes you can re-use your screen/keyboard/mouse/etc but if you get a Mini it will work best with Apple magic mouse and wireless keyboard - I use mine with either the TV or a 24in monitor (£125-ish). If the Mrs wants a big screen you can get non-Apple but if she wants an Apple one then you might consider an iMac as you'll be spending close to that overall.

Have a look at MacRumors - you probably don't want to buy the base Mini (mine was but I upgraded ram which you cannot do now), 8GM ram and bigger/faster drive would be best, you can add disks externally easily for more storage.

I had a 4S for 1.5 years, and a Samsung Galaxy S4 for 1 year.

The S4 has been a terrible phone with nothing but issues, some stemming from the hardware, some stemming from base Android, and some stemming from Samsung's Touchwiz shit they load over the top of Android.

I wanted to like Android, I really wanted to. I am a nerd. I build my own high end gaming PC's and tinker with those to my hearts content so Android should be a match made in heaven?

It was a crap experience for me. The phone destroyed SD cards with no word from Samsung as to an official reason why. The OS freezes and crashes on a weekly basis, and apps freeze and crash on a daily basis.

The OS looks crap - which I believe is Samsung's doing rather than base Android OS - but still. All the extra gimmicks have been turned off after week 1. The phone is made of plastic and feel cheap. App uninstall themselves and/or unlink from their shortcut regularly.

The camera is the only redeeming feature of this phone for me, and whilst it is a good camera, a camera does a smart phone not make.

Android people at this point will say that the S4 isn't the "true" Android experience, now thats probably true, but it is not of my concern. Google should have a tighter control on who can use their OS if 3rd parties are going to screw it up so badly that their own supporters denounce it as a "true" experience.

I could go on, but this is why I have just bought a iPhone 6. Sorry Android, I really tri [---- Unfortunately, Google Chrome has stopped working.]
[OK]

jambalaya - thanks. Looks like the best thing for me to do is keep saving...

plyphon, your mistake was not getting a nexus!

To be fair you can't judge Android based on Samsung.

Same result, different cost?

Just get the 27" iMac, it's a work of art!

To be fair you can't judge Android based on Samsung.

Android people at this point will say that the S4 isn't the "true" Android experience, now thats probably true, but it is not of my concern. Google should have a tighter control on who can use their OS if 3rd parties are going to screw it up so badly that their own supporters denounce it as a "true" experience.

Unfortunately for Google, people can and will judge their OS by what their 3rd parties are doing with it. I think Google are waking up to this and are setting tighter design style guides and development standards.

Android is free for anyone to bastardise. Anyone can take Android and do what they like to it eg Amazon use it for their phones and take off loads of Google stuff and then add their own gubbins.

Android is free for anyone to bastardise.

I think that's a pretty classic double-edged sword. It offers freedom but a lot of vendors seem to use that freedom to make a complete arse of it.

My MiL got herself some cheapo Android-based tablet to match the FiL's iPad.
Whoever made it thought it would be a great wheeze to remove the Play Store and lock it to their own proprietary store which had about a dozen apps in it. 👿

Cue me spending ages having to root it, put on a dodgy custom rom from some random website, install Play Store and all the apps she actually wanted - only for my FiL to tell me that a couple of months later that "it had been crashing a bit so I reset it, but she seems to have lost Facebook"

His "reset" had actually somehow wiped everything back to the factory install and I had to start again!

All sorts of options for you. iBooks being the simplest. Me? I use Dropbox, as then the PDF is available on all my machines straight away, and can control where it's saved, ie file it away in a client/project folder in Dropbox. It is very simple. A child could do it.

Except dropbox doesn't work offline or I would do that.

Doesn't matter anyway, will be getting rid soon and getting a laptop. Let the l mug buying it worry about that ( father in law so sister in law is tech support).

But yeah, it's the difference for differences sake that really annoys, my folks have a mini and the scroll working the wrong way round and keyboard being set for Apples own QWERTY interpretation was just annoying . Why? Everyone else can stick to a standard, why mess that up?

err dropbox works offline. only the file sync needs connectivity.

file is local on all machines, and if for some reason it's updated, it resyncs across all your devices the next time there's a connection.

unless the tablet/phone app version does something different to proper computer version?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30116319
br />
😉

whereas I had to go...
swipe... tap... tap... (wait a bit) tap... (wait a bit more) swipe... ooh it looks pretty.

CountZero - Member
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30116319
/p>

POSTED 18 MINUTES AGO

Do Apple devices not allow you to see page four of this thread?

Yeah, it does, can you tell I never use the damn thing?

Anyway, problem is solved, damage mitigated and table steadier will be gone soon enough.

Except dropbox doesn't work offline or I would do that.

Well, it needs a network connection to copy the PDF to your other machines obviously, but your local copy will be sitting there for you to read on your local machine,

Doesn't matter anyway, will be getting rid soon and getting a laptop. Let the l mug buying it worry about that ( father in law so sister in law is tech support).

Saving and viewing PDFs from the browser is much the same on laptops really. You can view in the browser, or save and open the PDF in another app. You know you can get Adobe Reader for iPad if you want to ape desktop OS behaviour so closely, don't you?

But yeah, it's the difference for differences sake that really annoys, my folks have a mini and the scroll working the wrong way round and keyboard being set for Apples own QWERTY interpretation was just annoying . Why? Everyone else can stick to a standard, why mess that up?

The scroll direction can be swapped you know. A child can do that as well.

The different keyboard mappings are annoying, as are extra proprietary keys, but all OS manufacturers have played that game… why add a “Windows” key for any other reason than differentiation for example? Standards… if only. Keyboard mappings aren't even the same between countries using the same alphabet… all very annoying, but the blame lands in lots of places, not just Apple's lap.

1) Again, I didn't know that. I don't use Dropbox so wouldn't naturally assume I would need it to perform the function of a download manager, something probably 99% of all other browsers do by default.

2) As said, most other browsers are more than capable of downloading a file on their own. I just made the ridiculous assumption that because I can view it I could obviously save it without downloading largely irrelevant software for the task I was attempting to accomplish.

3) I swapped the scroll direction quite easily thanks, no need to be a patronising twunt (are you an Apple tech support by any chance?). My parents, on the other hand, aren't quite such a Genius as yourself so were getting quite annoyed by it. As for the windows key, yes it's there but so was the Apple key before it, not sure what your point is really. The difference is that whilst most OS distros follow a convention for keyboard shortcuts eg. CTRL-T, OSX is just annoyingly different.

squirrelking: I'm not sure I understand your complaint.

Dropbox doesn't "perform the function of a download manager" and Safari like most other browsers IS (unsurprisingly) perfectly capable of downloading a PDF file on its own.

For a PDF it opens an in-browser preview and from there you can choose to open it in another app like iBooks, Dropbox, Google Drive, Stanza etc.

Use the "Open In..." or "Open in iBooks" buttons:

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I have a Mac Mini that I've upgraded the RAM in to 16gb and run with apple keyboard and touch pad but a Samsung monitor. Did look at getting the Thunderbolt display but you can get so much more for your money if you go non-apple. I think they're bringing out a new model fairly soon so if you must have one, maybe wait for that?

I've had numerous iPhones up to and including a 5s. Got sick of the utterly dismal battery life so moved to an HTC One, which as it turns out also has a rubbish battery. The M8 that I now have is awesomes though

If you're thinking about changing from Apple to Android, I found it a massive pain in the rear. However, having now got used to it, I don't think I'd go back.

The ipad mini I have however is rubbish - a complete backward step to the 1st gen that I had. Battery life is rubbish, its slow, keeps crashing...