[Closed] Apple addict considering a PC! - replacing/upgrading a MacBook Pro 15 from 2010

Any similar spec laptop will be fine, in fact you don't even need a dedicated graphics card for your use by the sound of it, so the whole thing will run cooler.

Are you wanting a PC or a laptop? The thing with 'pc laptops' is the cheaper ones do feel cheap, and just aren't buit well, so they can be damaged more easily. They also tend to come preloaded with all sorts of junk so you need to do a clean install of windows, or whack a Linux OS on them.

Contractor at work uses 13 ish inch screen Mac laptop. Small screen but high resolution so works well. Runs win 7 VM for development work. Works really well, butter than my work supplied i7, but he is running 16 GB ram, I'm only on 8 ( also running VM).

Personally I couldn't cope with a 13inch screen.

If I were to buy a laptop it would have to be at least a 17inch screen, have an SSD drive and be running 4gb ram, if using for VM, then a lot more ram.

But then I find laptops impractical anyway.. I'd rather have a proper pc and deal with on the move coms etc. Via smartphone.

Stay with Apple, you'll be horrified if you move to Windows... 🙂

My wife has a 2011 MacBook and it sounds just like yours. My (work) 13" MacBook Air is awesome and practically nonexistent when on a bike. The MBP is a bit heavier and more expensive but much more awesomer (which in this context means it should be usable longer).

Depends on what exactly you mean by "a spot of editing", but you could probably do all that stuff on an iPad (or other tablet).

Come into the light child. Never too late to change your ways.

Take a look at Dell

They also tend to come preloaded with all sorts of junk so you need to do a clean install of windows, or whack a Linux OS on them.

Tiny high resolution screens just mean they make everything tiny...

Says the Windows user. 😉 FWIW the high resolutions Macs use the extra resolution for clarity, nothing shrinks on the screen. Personally I'm staying the hell away from the MacBook Pro for my work laptop as I'll never be able to afford a high resolution 24" display to replace my current one once I've been spoilt!

Any PC will seem horrible after a MBP!

Can you not fix it? I'm running a 2010 MBP with 16Gb RAM and a 500GB SSD - still flies....

FWIW the high resolutions Macs use the extra resolution for clarity, nothing shrinks on the screen.

I'm having a long look at the Dell XPS 13 for my next laptop as it seems to have a similar spec to Macbooks, is lighter and cheaper.

Any PC will seem horrible after a MBP!

Don't listen to the fanbois. Windows is as good as anything else these days, so it's about personal preference, and what other dependencies you have.

If you go with Windows, you have the option of the excellent Surface tablet, which is pretty damn cool.

A new battery is what £100 from Apple or less from another supplier ? I just upgraded a friends 2008 15" MBP with 4gb ram (from 2) and a 250gb ssd and its like a new machine. Cost £110. Runs all the latest software. You'd be hard pressed to find too many old windows machines still going and running windows 10. My Mac Mini is 2009 and is used daily, wife MBP is 2012, the kit lasts.

Upgrade what you've got or sell it and buy a new Mac

Cheaper to replace your battery I would guess unless you just fancy something new. 🙂 my 2011 mbp is a 13", could do with a new battery and just replaced the WiFi card but otherwise it's still capable with 8gig ram and an ssd.

The new Macs are aimed at consumers not geeks, hence the lack of ports and ability to upgrade/repair yourself.

Our Mac guy has actually just bought a surface pro 4 and really rates it.

I'm not sure what I'll get when mine finally gives up.

I were to buy a laptop it would have to be at least a 17inch screen

17"! I love screen space but for a traveling user I even find a 15 a pain in the back to lug around.

Footflaps, can a 2010 Mac Book Pro use 16gig? Pretty sure my 2011 is limited to 8.

You'd be hard pressed to find too many old windows machines still going and running windows 10.

Windows 10 I seem to recall has a lower min spec than previous versions and runs well on older machines.

Also "at least 17" " 🙂 how big to laptops go?! 13" with the iPad running duet display works well and then I plug the 2 into a 24" screen in work. It's like war games 🙂

I've got a laptop running W7 nicely from 2009, recently upgraded to W10. Also a netbook type thing from about the same time runs W10 nicely too.

Jambalaya knows nothing about Windows laptops - do not listen to him.

However it is always better to repair than replace.

Just don't get a laptop Mac or PC, captive keyboards and no mouse make them horrible to use, regardless of whether you favour Mac OS or Windows or Linux. Laptop's suck!

My 2008 13" MacBook was perfectly fine except I was stuck on Snow Leopard. If it had been a 2009 i'd still have it. The 13" MBP I recently replaced it with is awesome though.

Also "at least 17" " how big to laptops go?!

Footflaps, can a 2010 Mac Book Pro use 16gig? Pretty sure my 2011 is limited to 8.

@molgrips I think you can count the number of such old windows machines running W10 as a very very small proportion. We never had a dell/sony/ibm/levono laptop which lasted more than 3 years, mist ground to a halt for software reasons. I am certainly out of touch with Windows as after close to 20 years stuff with Microsoft we have been Apple only for 8 years. Never ever going back. When at work I try and use the office provided Windows machine as little as possible. The stock market doesn't lie when it comes to the relative valuations.

We never had a dell/sony/ibm/levono laptop which lasted more than 3 years, mist ground to a halt for software reasons.

The stock market doesn't lie when it comes to the relative valuations.

I have the same 2010 model but with a SSD and 8GB ram. I bought it secondhand 4 years ago for good money and yes I work in IT and have done for over 20years so know a thing or two.

I also found the battery finally lower enough to consider replacing ( around 45min of use) Had a look on Ebay and just fitted a replacement battery today which is charing as we speak. The battery cost me £33 and will report back how good it is but fingers crossed will be OK.

I also replaced the 5 year old SSD which was 256gb with a Sandisk 480gb model.

I totally understand the hate for Macs ( from people who normally don't own one) as they are pricey but if you ask me its money well spent. I don't want a iPad , iPhone or ever use iTunes by the way so definitely not a apple fan.

That my 5 pence worth.

Laptops overall are generally limited to 8GB of RAM, there was much fanfare in the office when we (Intel) finally released a laptop SKU that can take 16GB of RAM.

Agreed though, maxing out the RAM, a new battery (get a proper one, from experience the no-name or refurb ones aren't worth it), and a decent SSD to replace your internal (slow) HDD would make a big difference. How much that comes to in total compared to the cost of a new laptop is a debate for you and your bank manager. 🙂

Oh and Apple has an awesome refurb section on their store: two of our Macbooks over the years have been refurb and all of the iPads too.

I am certainly out of touch with Windows

As I said, Jambalaya knows nothing about Windows 🙂

Pretty sure my 2011 is limited to 8.

Late 2011 has max 8gb listed as spec but in reality quite happily takes 16.

My late 2011 mbp runs super speedy, 16gb ram (though was as fast day to day on 8gb) and with 1tb hybrid drive.

Mac user: I bought a cheap Windows 8 laptop just for travelling duties. After struggling to get it to do simple things, like just connect to a wireless network, and having various apps just suddenly become unresponsive, I gave up on it. Aside from being an utter peice of shit, it was completely unintuitive compared to a Mac. Cheap for a reason.

A moderately speccified windows 10 laptop will do exactly what you want OP. What's your budget?

Post written on a 10 year old Dell Studio 15 with 2GB RAM, running windows 10.

Cheap windows 8 laptop versus Mac laptop is like comparing a findus frozen lasagna with a meal at a PoSH restaurant.

I'm typing this on the base model MacBook, I've had assorted Apple Laptops over the years and I've not found this one lacking at all. It's tiny and lightweight too. Makes our Air seem huge and heavy.

I have to use Windows laptops at work and TBH, I think they're shit. Huge and bulky, crap touchpad, AV software slowing everything down, copy/paste doesn't work due to some shitty encryption software.

If you really don't want to pay for an Apple laptop, at least take a look at ditching Windows for Linux.

Huge and bulky, crap touchpad, AV software slowing everything down, copy/paste doesn't work due to some shitty encryption software.

Cheap windows 8 laptop versus Mac laptop is like comparing a findus frozen lasagna with a meal at a PoSH restaurant.

Well I was really comparing operating systems, but your point still stands. The hardware itself, I had no fault with.

Nope 3rd party encryption that has broken consistent clipboard behaviour, or so I am told. Sometimes I paste and nothing happens.

Perhaps a wonky clipboard is not an 'average windows experience', but I've tolerated plenty of work issue windows laptops over the years, and they have all, without fail, been shit.

Well I was really comparing operating systems

Fair enough. Windows 8 is bobbins, 10 is a vast improvement IMO.

Windows 10 is still Windows though, so not really any different. I've never got on with any version of Windows, since the 90s, when I first started using Macs (OS 7x!).

Yes, windows 10 is still windows.... a bit like a bicycle is just a bicycle.

That's really not a valid comparison.

neither is windows 8 to windows 10

I'm using a 13" 2009 MPB with upgraded SSD and 8GB RAM and it flies. The battery is knackered like yours but I'm never far from a power outlet so haven't bothered to replace it yet.
Have you taken the back off your MBP and cleaned out the cooling fan and air vents? I remember mine blew hot a few years ago and it was a load of fluff jammed in the vents.
A RAM and SSD hard drive upgrade won't cost a fortune and neither will a replacement battery. A fresh install of OSX and it'll feel like a new machine.

Thanks for all the comments folks, I suppose i should add some more detail.

I need to take a laptop away with me this summer for work and will be on the bike lots. This one therefore is out of the question as I consider it too heavy, for the summer ahead at least.

I'll be doing a bit of photo editing, photoshop, Logic, internet, Youtube etc. I'll also need a USB for the Garmin.

I did plan on fixing the issues and selling it to add to the cost of the new one but it turns out what was a £1500 machine is now worth about £400, according to eBay. So I'll probably end up keeping and fixing...

As for the new machine, Windows does not appeal.

From post 1

I mainly use it for web browsing, streaming video and a spot of editing audio/video.

Am I best sticking to Apple or is there a PC out there that would suit me?

As for the new machine, Windows does not appeal.

Any real reason why, have you tried a clean Win 10 install (again a lot of work machines are mangled and locked by corporate policies so no comparison to a home set up)
If you don't want Windows are you planning on going Linux?

Like many on the thread, I use both OSX and W10 and W7. I've never really understood why people think OSX is more intuitive, it's just different. Daily irritations with OSX include:

Windows in finder not remembering their size, position and layout
Window snapping is awful (BetterSnapTool helps)
Mac USB keyboard often doesn't respond on wake up (sometimes two or three boots to resolve, known problem for years unfixed)
USB drives randomly disconnecting
Editing large formulas in Excel is almost impossible, as the cursor position in the formula isn't accurate (I accept its not an OSX issue, but has been around for ages unfixed)
It needs to be on an SSD, otherwise it's beach-ball-tastic compared to W10

I don't really like the gamification (if that's the right word) of the OS in W10. I could live without the live tiles and cute graphics but get that it makes more sense when you see these items on a mobile/touch device. Quite clever really. I prefer the simple UI of OSX in that regard, but frankly W10 is a lot more stable, for me at least.

There's not been anything to touch a MacBook Pro for build quality, if you like how something feels and appreciate the build. The new Surface Book and Surface Pro are really nice though, as is the new Dell XPS range.

I have no idea why I wrote all that.

Windows 10 is still Windows though, so not really any different.

It is pretty damn different - you're flat out wrong.

I've never really understood why people think OSX is more intuitive, it's just different

This! I find it quite irritating actually. And it's far from 'just works' that folk proclaim too.

I found hitting sort by date on a pc really confuses the mac users....

Oh there's also the Surface Book - clearly aimed at the Mac market. It's rather nice.

There is also a Dell rival to the surface that was described as awesome by my mate, not on the site yet but a tablet with proper keyboard based on the xps range. Full power and light, extra battery in the keyboard gets you at least a full days use.

I found hitting sort by date on a pc really confuses the mac users...

As a Mac user everything on a p.c confuses me on the very rare occasion I have to look at one.
I'm struggling to see why sorting by date or date added in the finder is an issue? 😯

Mrs Binners has recently moved to a PC laptop from a Mac. She spends an awful lot of time swearing at it. Its a piece of shit. She hates it! We'll be back to another Mac shortly, I'd imagine. Its days are numbered!

Whack the maximum memory upgrade and an SSD in the Mac. It'll cost 150 quid and take you an hour, and the difference is unbelievable!

As a Mac user of 20 odd years, who uses them all day, every day for high end graphics work, I view PC's the same way as you'd view a tractor, having just climbed out of a Porsche.

They're basically agricultural equipment

I'm struggling to see why sorting by date or date added in the finder is an issue?

Sort by date is probably on of the most used things in find for me, I've got no idea what filename I just downloaded or I don't care what the filename of may Garmin gox is all I want is the newest one.

She spends an awful lot of time swearing at it. Its a piece of shit.

Is it because you bought something really cheap?

They're basically agricultural equipment

As opposed to flash lifestyle accessories like the Porsche?

Forget the OS Wars rubbish - it's futile. They're all as good or bad as each other.

If you're used to a MacBook you will probably hate Windows 10 for a while, because it's not what you're used to.

I hate MacBooks as it's not what I'm used to and there's always some idiot at work saying how great they are and then complaining they can't do something that all the PC users do. If I used one more I'd probably learn to like it.

I'd suggest working out what software you want to run, see what platform it runs on and get that.

If you find you're going for a Windows laptop then there's a world of choice, cheaper options sometimes have build quality shortcuts. I did get an MSI laptop a few years ago that feels a bit cheap and plasticky but is in better nick than the supposedly better built Dell I use at work. Dell XPS seem nice, had a few come in through work and both the 13 and 15 are pleasant to use.

One tip from recent experience is if you want encryption then look at business laptops with Windows 10 Pro, they usually have TPM 2.0 and Bitlocker support. Home laptops often ship without TPM or with the older TPM 1.2, Bitlocker isn't supported on Windows 10 Home.

Or go with the MacBook as the encryption options on those appear better, Windows based hardware is still catching up - certainly for home market machines.

Is it because you bought something really cheap?

No... the problem is that it has a Windows based OS. Its horrible!

As opposed to flash lifestyle accessories like the Porsche?

You know me Molls. I'm all about flash lifestyle accessories! 😉

've got a laptop running W7 nicely from 2009, recently upgraded to W10. Also a netbook type thing from about the same time runs W10 nicely too.

don't get a laptop Mac or PC, captive keyboards and no mouse make them horrible to use

it has a Windows based OS. Its horrible!

No, it's lovely 🙂

From an aesthetic point of view, MacOS looks absolutely awful and dated nowadays. MS have definitely won this round, W10 is gorgeous.

Sort by date is probably on of the most used things in find for me, I've got no idea what filename I just downloaded or I don't care what the filename of may Garmin gox is all I want is the newest one.

The fact it's not there from what I hear, every one I'm using winding front of seems to think it's a great idea.

Anyway the OP can do what he likes, plenty of perspective here and plenty of people who last used xp and think that's modern windows or the locked box in their office is the home experience.

Molly - I think you need psychiatric help mate

View Options -> Sort By ... Date Last Opened, Date Created, Date Modified...

Really not just click on the date modified column? How backwards

The fact it's not there from what I hear

That is not a fact it's hearsay.

Ah like the I've never used windows for 10 years but it's shit

If you set Finder view to columns you just click on the column heading to sort.

they are both rather boringly similar nowadays

hardware wise: £ for £ the quality is very similar. People who say otherwise are not comparing at the same price range.

experience wise: nothing between them. People who say otherwise are just so used to one particular way of doing things that they forgot they had to learn that in the fist place.

just set a budget and buy what you like the look of. You don't need anything special by the sound of it.

Really not just click on the date modified column? How backwards

I find command>3 (or 1, or 2) quite intuitive depending on how I want the finder to show files, then I have the choice of seeing kind/size/date added/date modified or whatever combination I want. Plus the colour coding and then splitting the sorting so it put the colours in separate groups if needed and then has further sorting by name/date etc.

I think you are trying to argue about something that doesn't really exist. Maybe try moaning about the power button on the back of an iMac? You have to reach behind and move your fingers around until you find the button which is flush and not protruding, it's terrible.

Molly - I think you need psychiatric help mate

I think you need this:

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Oh, and also this:

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they are both rather boringly similar nowadays

hardware wise: £ for £ the quality is very similar. People who say otherwise are not comparing at the same price range.

experience wise: nothing between them. People who say otherwise are just so used to one particular way of doing things that they forgot they had to learn that in the fist place.

just set a budget and buy what you like the look of. You don't need anything special by the sound of it.

This, + loads.

Quick thought for OP: you could perhaps keep the macbook for home / everyday use and get a cheap chromebook for portability? I'm considering the same thing even though my MBP is working fine after a wee upgrade.

they are both rather boringly similar nowadays

hardware wise: £ for £ the quality is very similar. People who say otherwise are not comparing at the same price range.

experience wise: nothing between them. People who say otherwise are just so used to one particular way of doing things that they forgot they had to learn that in the fist place.

just set a budget and buy what you like the look of. You don't need anything special by the sound of it.

this sums it all up well

Not read the whole thread but...

That said, I was in a similar place, considering a pc - i even bought (a cheapish) one and used it as my main machine for a few months to see if I could hack it, but there are things that I couldn't find a good pc alternative for.

See my threads here:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/automated-windows-backup

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/windows-fansmac-haters

FWIW I got a mac 😉

they are both rather boringly similar nowadays
hardware wise: £ for £ the quality is very similar. People who say otherwise are not comparing at the same price range.

experience wise: nothing between them. People who say otherwise are just so used to one particular way of doing things that they forgot they had to learn that in the fist place.

just set a budget and buy what you like the look of. You don't need anything special by the sound of it.

This is reasonably accurate. My issue was I didn't really have a budget (within reason) but there were things I couldn't do on a PC. I think roughly:

low end: PCs are compelling, you have more options on what you sacrifice to get the price down.

mid-high: for me, macs are compelling as it's hard to find PCs with good physical qualities (build, trackpad etc).

very high end: you can't get high end macs, so it's an easy choice here.

Also, bear in mind although you can learn windows, get used to it - there would have to be a big pay off to make it worthwhile. Either in getting a much better machine for your needs (which aren't high end, so not that) or saving a lot of money. Think "what would I pay not to waste time faffing about on a new system?" for me, it's not £0. Say you spend two days faffing - how much do you need to save on a PC to make that worth it?

but there were things I couldn't do on a PC

like what?

like what?

See the threads. Backup's the obvious one, from the link URL 😉 To pick some others, read/write google cal support that works offline, icloud photostream syncing.

And for a generic point, try "handle hi-DPI screens properly and consistently"

But we're heading OT here... not that I don't love a good argument on the internet. 😉

like what?

i couldn’t tether my digital back, run the stacking software, use a thunderbolt raid or edit in final cut.
but even if i could do those things on a p.c i still wouldn’t for various reasons:

having briefly used my parents laptop i decided any time spent trying to learn the ways of windows was pointless and an exercise in frustration.
i dont care how much cheaper a windows p.c. is or how i can build my own etc, any price premium is paid back with a few hours of productivity so is of no consequence so i’m happy to pay the ‘apple tax’.
i have had a few issues/downtime over the years but never had to do a clean install and google has usually helped me solve the problem (mainly been a specialist software thing broken by an update and not an apple problem)
pc’s look grim. i would happily leave an iMac in the living room, pc’s just remind me of boring office environments and spreadsheets.
i’m sure if you are buying for an IT department p.c’s make a lot of sense, i can’t see the apple evangelists point in trying to convince you otherwise but it goes both ways, there is no point in telling me it would be cheaper/easier/has a higher geek bench score etc etc when it’s fundamentally the wrong choice for me both on an emotional nonsense level of me wanting a shiny well made tactile object not a grey plastic ugly thing but also a productivity level of picking the best tool for the job.

all those cafe posers should admit that’s why they bought them though, because you can surf the web and do Facebook on p.c but you dont look cool carrying round an HP or mac-a-like silver laptop.

Quick thought for OP: you could perhaps keep the macbook for home / everyday use and get a cheap chromebook for portability? I'm considering the same thing even though my MBP is working fine after a wee upgrade.

Possibly interesting anecdote. I have a Chromebook which was bought as a "pub laptop" i.e. a cheap and cheerful bit of kit that I don't worry about being damaged or stolen. I also have a 12" Macbook, which is very much NOT cheap and cheerful. I will sing the praises of the Chromebook quite happily, but it's not a patch on the Macbook when it comes to the simple joy of using a well designed tool.

but it's not a patch on the Macbook when it comes to the simple joy of using a well designed tool.

My 2011 MBP is a joy to use - it's just a really nicely engineered bit of kit. The trackpad is the only one I've ever used on a laptop which I can genuinely use instead of a mouse - even for photoshop etc...

The trackpad is the only one I've ever used on a laptop which I can genuinely use instead of a mouse

true. I'd go as far as saying it's considerably better than a mouse.