[Closed] anyone have a copy of the latest iDave?

I would also like a copy if its available
cheers

see the diet and training thread

email me for the proper up to date one

You mean you've updated it to take into account all the constructive comment I've made over the last couple of weeks. Is the 2kg a week weight loss claim still there?

Cripes. Here we go again 🙁

Ok. You're getting a bit creepy now, Edukator. You have Dave being watched or something?

Steady chaps, I think there might be something constructive that edukator would like to add.

You mean you've updated it to take into account all the constructive comment I've made over the last couple of weeks

All you said was 'it's rubbish'. So if it were updated it would be a blank piece of paper wouldn't it?

You are just trolling now, stop it.

You have Dave being watched or something?

If you want to do it properly...[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180860492764?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_754wt_883 ]You could buy my camera off ebay for 1p [/url]

You are just trolling now, stop it.

You don't want any old iDiet... you want The Southern Yeti modified iDiet.

Edukator you're doing a brilliant job of coming across as bit pathetic. Do you fancy me or something?

Drac, Merlinman, Chipps, Anon mods, Batman;

NUKE THIS THREAD FROM ORBIT!

Feel the love in the room tonight people

I'm open minded so if possible could I get a copy just to have a look at from an objective point of view please

Thank you iDave

rj

Kindly link your quote Molgrips. I'd appreciate if you stopped putting words in my mouth. You having called me a "prick", a "pillock" and "a tit" is not misquoting, care to apologise?

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/training-and-diet-talk/page/6 ]Molgrips calling me a pillock, ignorant and accusing me of rubbishing iDave on the last thread - sixth post from the bottom.[/url]

Other STWers can read the thread from there on in and judge for themselves who is making positive suggestions about a healthy diet compatible with sporting excellence.

Ok I'll remove the quote. You seemed to say it's rubbish.

Why would iDave, an experienced coach, change his ideas on diet because a retired geology teacher he doesn't know told him to on an internet forum?

Really?

Other STWers can read the thread from there on in and judge for themselves who is making positive suggestions about a healthy diet compatible with sporting excellence.

Yeah and they can see all the other iDiet threads over the last year and see how I've contributed.

2lb loss from me this week Dave. and back in a 38'' waist trouser, i was in a 42'' on HTN day.

8)

I've read a few of these threads and the general consensus would be that iDave is on the right tracks with the insulin response stuff. I'm pretty bad with science so forgive me.
I started off at 85kg and more or less after a couple of weeks on the iDave I've my belt needs an extra hole. How this translates into kgs, I don't know. As the missus is my judge, iDave gats the vote.

Nice one ton 🙂

I've never taught geology in my life and I'm not retired. I don't work at the moment though because I neither need nor want to. I have however been a national champion in motorsport and a national veteran vice-champion in triathlon. I do have quite a lot of experience is eating for optimum performance.

Edukator - [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/training-and-diet-talk/page/13#post-3686199 ]If you want to talk about your views...[/url] I'll even share with you my diet preperation etc for a Sportive today.

Well done Ton, keep at it... your what iDave's diet sheet is all about!

iDave is right.

Low carb is the way to go.

If you read up on insulin response to glucose and how it causes fat to accumulate then it all makes sense. Tie it into watching the GI of food then weight loss is easy.

My prediction is that in 5 - 10 years time the medical profession will finally admit they were wrong and stop telling fat people to eat diets high in carbohydrate. You heard it here first.

Low carb is the way to go.

I'm one of those "aren't you lucky being able to eat what you want and stay skinny?" types. (Though I've noticed that fat people who say that to me eat rather more than I do.)

If I eat whatever I want, I seem to head toward 11 3/4 stone and then not get any higher. I'm 5'11".

If I eat a "normal" diet, but avoid lots of chocolate, beer and chips, I sit at around 11 1/2 stone.

Recently, I've been eating more of an iDave-aware diet and this leaves me hovering around 11-and-a-bit stone. But more importantly, I feel much healthier while eating like this.

Might have a bash at doing iDave properly for a couple of week, just to see what happens.

I do have quite a lot of experience is eating for optimum performance

And iDave doesn't?

The last time I looked in on your thread it had descended into banter, Yeti, I'll have a look.

2lb is more sensible than 2kg, Ton, if it's working for you, great.

My experience exactly Miketually.

I would like a copy of the plan though... I'm pimping it around my gym as it's the only quick way I can surmise to others how to get lean.

Edukator - it did, but it's better to get it back on topic than de-rail this one.

I've never taught geology in my life and I'm not retired.

I apologise - I mis-read something it seems*.

I kept trying to tell you Edukator that if you do loads of exercise then iDave already recommends you eat simple carbs.

You don't seem to notice when I post this though.

* see how easy it is to admit mistakes?

cheers mike and yeti.

got to be honest, i really love the idiet/primal plan way of eating now.
shopping is easier (but a bit dearer), cooking is good fun, my taste buds are changing too i reckon, i neer used to like chillies and spicy stuff, now i want chillies and spices on everything.
and it is easy to do. just buy and eat everthing in it's natural or least messed with state.
the most messed about thing i eat now is shop bought hummus when i have not made a homemade batch.
and i feel fantastic too, never bloated or tired after a meal, and i seem to be able to ride a bit more cos of the weight loss, and even with the dodgy ticker.......what not to like eh?

I fuelled my last bike ride with a breakfast of fried chorizo and fried egg. Drank no added sugar juice only for first 90 minutes or so, then had some banana loaf. Had a mid-ride hot cross bun. Bought a 2 pack of pork pies from a Co-Op on the way home (600 calories for a quid = ace!) and ate one there and then, with another slice of banana loaf, and one at home. Lovely 🙂

just buy and eat everthing in it's natural or least messed with state.
the most messed about thing i eat now is shop bought hummus when i have not made a homemade batch.

I'm a tad shallow... but how good is the feeling when you look down at your trolley full of fresh, healthy food whislt thinking how much more you're going to enjoy your creations than the ready made meal in the next basket?

yeti, i find myself looking at other people's trolley and thinking 'bloody hell, dont some folk eat shyte'. 😆

I don't agree with iDave, that seems to upset you to the point you use insult rather than argument backed up by research, Molgrips.

iDave has a red list with no fruit, no grains, no potatoes, no rice, no bread that I consider unecessary/counter productive for the vast majority of people who are neither diabetic nor gluten allergic. The insulin argument he presents does not hold up to experimentation. People secrete the insulin necessary. A paper linked shows GI is broadly linked to insulin indexes and normal healthy people should not worry about eating any low GI foodstuffs - nearly all fruit, all grains in wholemeal form and potatoes..

Snobs the lot of you. Passing judgement on my shopping trolley.

Edukator, if you don't agree with it then don't use it, if people chose to use it and it works for them the jolly good, nothing ventured nothing gained. I myself have just emailed iDave for a copy so I can have a look see for myself and make an informed decision and judgement after giving it a go for a while, after all surely it can't do any harm. Also even though I haven't actually met the guy, from what I know of Ton, from his conversations on here, he seems a fairly clued up and straight talking guy, so if he finds it working for him then there must be something to it, and it is not just Ton, but various others on here. Well done Ton, by the way and good to hear you are back on the bike

The best shopping trolley I've seen was in a village in the reunified east of Germany. A couple with a 10gk sack of potatoes and a bottle of vodka. Nothing else. The checkout girl's accent was a surprise too, straight out of a WWII propaganda film.

Idave, sorry to trouble you. How would you amend the diet for someone who is trying to lose a little fat whilst training hard to put weight on? I am taking whey protein and not worried about being ripped just carrying a little more than I'd like around the middle and am training very hard.

If you are interested in the role of carbohydrate and your overall health read this [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Diet-Delusion-Gary-Taubes/dp/0091924286/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334515635&sr=8-1-spell ]The Diet Delusion[/url]

It goes into the papers and research that back up the currently diet advice given in the Western World.

Carbs are big business and a lot of people want to keep it that way. Just look at the breakfast cereal in a supermarket, the profit margin on that stuff puts Oakley to shame!

For the vast majority you get all the carbohydrate you need from fresh veg and low GI fruit. Pasta, bread, cereal etc is not necessary.

Yes insulin in a non-diabetic will cope with the sugar but so will your liver if you drink alcohol in excess. No-one can argue drinking in excess is good for you and eventually your liver "breaks", same as a pancreas can if you eat a lot of unnecessary carb.

Come the low carb revolution brothers!

Wrecker - I can't speak for iDave, but I'd say ditch the protein powder. Get your protein from the numerous sources within the diet.

iDave, you've got mail.

Myself and the Mrs are giving it a go.

Thanks,

Pete.

Thanks TSY, it's difficult to put 200g of protein in naturally and I am feeling the benefits. I'll bare with it at least until I've finished the bag I think. Ta.

Ton - way to go. As long as its a downwards direction the amount isn't really that important is it? I've only lost a couple of pounds the last two weeks but I feel my body shape improving, the belt has gone in a notch (I almost slipped it two the other day by mistake!) and my old clothes are now becoming wearable again.

Yes I'm also feeling smug in the supermarket. I've been meaning to getting cooking again and this has meant that's have too. I still need to extend the repertoire as I'm still findings it a bit too samey. But by necessity this will happen.

Edukator - you seem to deliberately avoid that the diet sheet is aimed at biffers who need to lose a few stones. There are quite a few people on here that are finding that it works for them. And as its not calorie controlled it doesn't mean you have to watch the amount you eat specifically. Although over eating is a problem whatever I guess...

Being active is also a requrement and I'm finding that I have energy enough (I was as at the doctor a couple of months ago (i.e. pre e idiet) because I was getting fatigued easily, esp down the climbing wall. I was back down to a sports crag after a month on in to the diet and managed stuff much better (knocking on 10 kg lighter it's hardly surprising) and managing not to end up fatigued too.

So all in all 3 pretty major personal factors have all been ticked.

2lb is more sensible than 2kg, Ton, if it's working for you, great.

Are the people on iDave on it for life or do they intend to return to a more normal diet progressively? If so, are they aware that people that people that lose weight rapidly often put it back on equally rapidly due to the body entering famine mode? Cutting out fruit is a health issue in itself IMO given the vitamin and mineral content.

People accuse me of not answering questions. iDave has never repsonded to me pointing out that his claim of losing 2kg of body fat per week means people have to burn over 2000 calories worth of body fat a day. That means getting very few calories from food which whatever people eat will push the body into the famine mode known to cause weight yoyo among people trying to lose weight. Success until survival insticnt takes over then failure.

Spaghetti has the same GI as red lentils IIRC Winston. Check the Sydney Uni figures.

Edukator - iirc he said perhaps you didn't understand the fat loss processes involved. I certainly have been eating more than 1000 calories a day....

Edukator - your sports results are an irrelevance. You may have performed better on a different diet for all we know. I've done stuff too. You won at motorsport, I advise a current F1 team on nutrition. You're lean and eat bread, I've coached Tour de France stage winners and yellow jersey holders.

iDave has a red list with no fruit, no grains, no potatoes, no rice, no bread that I consider unecessary/counter productive for the vast majority of people who are neither diabetic nor gluten allergic.

You're a geologist though. Unless I'm mistaken you haven't worked with either elite athletes to improve their performance or the clinically obese to lose weight. Why does what you 'consider' hold weight? I did geology a-level. I've been up mountains looking at rocks. I know what areas to advise people on, and rocks isn't one of them, despite my 'opinion' and 'experience'.

The insulin argument he presents does not hold up to experimentation.

Are you saying the world of biochemistry has got it wrong? That all foods elicit the same insulin response or that insulin has no role in body fat deposits? Which bits are wrong?

And ton hasn't lost weight? Did that experiment fail?

People secrete the insulin necessary.

Which people? Do all have the same response? Heard of insulin sensitivity?

iDave has never repsonded to me pointing out that his claim of losing 2kg of body fat per week means people have to burn over 2000 calories worth of body fat a day.

I haven't responded because you have already demonstrated that you don't understand the process of fat storage and fat loss. And fuel for exercise as it happens. You think that the human body is a simple closed 'oven' system and lacks feedback loops and an endocrine system. Calories in and calories out. Let me ask you something.

If three identical people got 2000 kcal per day, one from fat, one from protein and one from carbs, would they all remain at the same weight? If not why not?

Anyway, you carry on pissing on our chips and ignoring basic science, the experiences of people who have tried it and also the evidence regarding the role of insulin in fat storage and the different response of insulin to different food, because you can drive fast, do triathlons and know about rocks and on that basis are in a position to advise us all.

Edukator - In the first a week or 2 of a low carb diet it is easy to lose 2kg a week. This is due to a loss of water. Carbohydrate makes you retain unnecessary water and when you switch your body drops it.
Also as your metabolism changes you need water to breakdown the fat and protein that you are now using for fuel. You need to drink plenty of water but you don't hold it in your body the same way.

I lost 2kg a week for the first 4 weeks. I measured this and due to work I was not getting a load of exercise. Never felt hungry and ate as much meat, fish and veg as I wanted.

Low carb works, I feel fitter, by old injuries don't ache and I have stopped snoring. Carbs lead to inflammation, causing aches and causing some people to snore.

I don't know the details of the iDave diet but I totally agree with the principles behind a low carb diet.

pissing on our chips

Now I'm really confused 😀

iDave diet isn't low carb though Winston, it's low GI carb - plenty of carbs involved.

Edukator, my goal is to lose 5 stone in 1 year. i started on the 1st of march, so hopefully by next march i will be down to 18 stone......i dont think that is losing it too quickly.
and once i get to that weight, i will be going full primal, and introducing a bit of fruit back in my diet, but i will be dropping the beans.
have a good look on Marks Daily Apple, have a good read and see what you think.

Now I'm really confused

Simple really. You can only eat chips, if they have been pissed on.

...breakz down the carbz.

Well perhaps iDave could explain how people are going to lose 2kg of body fat a week without burning 2kg of body fat a week then. The preocess is simple, a body running a calorie deficit burns body fat.

The iDave idea is that by eating copious amounts of veg you feel full and by limiting carbs you don't get the post meal hunger the insulin curve lagging the sugar curve gives some people. Eat sensibly and that won't be a problem Sensibly includes fruit and bread IMO. Cutting out sucrose is common sense given it's link to type 2 dieabetes and colon cancer but cuttiing out low GI carbs is pointless.

I consider any diet that aims for one or two kgs per week rather than 500gm to one kg per month is likely to result in weigh yoyo/rebound in the long term, especially for people who aren't much overweight in the first place.

I did the iDave for a couple or 3 weeks before falling off that particular wagon

I lost around 5 lbs which was good but I had a continual bad taste in my mouth
I also missed bread and a pint of beer too much 🙂

Sounds like you entered ketosis, Jota.

Which shouldn't happen on the iDiet.

Edukator

edukate yourself......... we/you are never too late to learn.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz1s8gkTWxh

@ron jeremy- i use the Idave for keeping at a nice low weight and you've seen what a chubster I am so give it a go

iDave, you have mail.....

Edukator, you are Surf Matt and I claim my £5!!

Tazzy, does that me if I do iDiet, I'll look like you??

Hmm having second thoughts now!!!

I consider any diet that aims for one or two kgs per week rather than 500gm to one kg per month is likely to result in weigh yoyo/rebound in the long term, especially for people who aren't much overweight in the first place.

You're very good at telling us what you 'consider'.

What's your evidence that people who change to a low GI diet fail to maintain their weight loss? I mean evidence, not what you 'consider'.

Are you aware that low fat and calorie restrictive diets, of the type you seem to 'advise' are notorious for yoyo effects?

Just received my copy.

Thanks.

Tazzy, does that me if I do iDiet, I'll look like you??

second thoughts? you cheaky young pup, I'm pure lean muscle and sexy singlespeediness I'll have you know 😆

you cheaky young pup,

That's the sweetest thing anyone has said to me in a long time.......

(without me having to pay for it beforehand, I always pay for it after!)

Sorry to butt into the argument idave, what is the Idiet like for those looking to gain muscle whilst dropping fat?

Assuming you are doing the right resistance training, it works well. If you're 'older', 40+, you should have more protein post exercise to aid protein synthesis than is usually recommended.

Mega, thanks idave. I'm 35 but putting extra protein in anyway.

Sorry to butt into the argument idave, what is the Idiet like for those looking to gain muscle whilst dropping fat?

You would probably be better off sticking to a specialised product. May I recommend:

[img] [/img]

I'm not going to get involved in posturing/bickering on t'internet.

My facts are, I have followed the iDave and lost a fair few Kgs. I am 5'10 and now weigh 74kg's. I've enjoyed the regime and honestly see me continuing it for ever.

I no longer enjoy the treat days; it just seems wrong.

I like the extra thought that goes into preparing every meal.

It can be hard, especially around lunch time, everyone else at work goes to bakery for a high carb sarnie and I am left wishing I ad prepared something the night before. I now make a very tasty 3 bean salad on a sunday that lasts me all week.

Thank you (again) iDave.

[url= http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/weight_loss_and_fad_diets?open ]The first Google result for your consideration, iDave.[/url]

Your diet plan pdf has the characteristics of a fad diet:

"It's easy to spot a fad diet

[i]Typically, a fad diet shares some, or all, of the following characteristics:

Promises a quick fix
Promotes 'magic' foods or combinations of foods
Implies that food can change body chemistry
Excludes or severely restricts food groups or nutrients, such as carbohydrates
Has rigid rules that focus on weight loss
Makes claims based on a single study or testimonials only[/i]."

Edukator - I thought the whole point of starting a fad diet was to get rich off it... not give it away for free to people on the internet.

Whatever people say about it... I reckon it offers enough food for a troll.

It's like Women's Weekly in here you set of sad bastards.

Thanks Jamie, I'm not quite that bad! Just put on a few lbs after stopping smoking a few months back. I hide it well because I've not got a small build but it's secretly pissing me off. I'm hoping a mixture of weights, muay Thai, boxing and circuits will put me on the road. Good news is I've got masses of energy after cutting out the fags.

I've just linked this:

[i]"With a balanced eating plan, it's what you leave in that makes all the difference. For a balanced eating plan to be successful, you need to:

Eat plenty of vegetables, legumes and fruits.
Include a variety of cereals (including breads, rice, pasta and noodles), preferably wholegrain.
Include lean meat, fish, poultry or alternatives.
Include milk, yoghurts, cheeses or alternatives.
Drink plenty of water.
Limit saturated fat and moderate total fat intake.
Choose reduced fat varieties of foods where possible.
Choose foods low in salt.
Limit your alcohol intake, if you choose to drink.
Consume only moderate amounts of sugars, and food and drinks containing added sugars. In particular, limit sugar-sweetened beverages."[/i]

and you acuse me of trolling, Yeti.

It's like Women's Weekly in here you set of sad bastards.

Which now includes yourself, now you have posted.

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

...personally, I am only in this thread to see if Edukator posts some pics with his top off again.

[img] [/img]

Good news is I've got masses of energy after cutting out the fags.

When I quit the fags I binged drank for a few month. So energy gainz were minimal 8)

If three identical people got 2000 kcal per day, one from fat, one from protein and one from carbs, would they all remain at the same weight? If not why not?

I know that conversion of carbs and protein into fat for storage is very inefficient and that insulin plays a role in this but what's the answer?

Promises a quick fix

This is a change in eating, not a 'diet'. And it's not something you do then stop either.

Promotes 'magic' foods or combinations of foods

Where are the magic foods or 'combinations'?

Implies that food can change body chemistry

If you think it can't you're a bigger idiot than you've come across as to date

Excludes or severely restricts food groups or nutrients, such as carbohydrates

This does neither. Carbs are neither excluded or restricted.

Has rigid rules that focus on weight loss

As opposed to non-rigid rules, or should there be no rules to healthy eating?

Makes claims based on a single study or testimonials only.

Again, a fail.

Actually **** it, why don't you produce a diet sheet for your fans to follow - something that accounts for how we store fat, how we respond to the food we eat, the feedback mechanisms in the body, insulin sensitivity, fuel for endurance exercise, satiety, adherence levels etc. In future I'll direct half the requests for the iDave diet to you and we can compare and contrast success rates.

and you acuse me of trolling, Yeti.

Moi, a troll? How very dare you! Jamie - pass me that axe!

I dunno, Ben, but the one that only ate carbs wouldn't die of scurvey in a short period of time thus surving the study unkike the exclusive fat fat and protein eaters.

15 lbs gone in 5 weeks. the only thing i have out of a tin these days is mackerel fillets....
still cheating a bit on the beer though, fri and sat, but food wise, sticking to it 7 days a week and finding it much easier than the first week.

the one that only ate carbs wouldn't die of scurvey in a short period of time thus surving the study unkike the exclusive fat fat and protein eaters.

You say that but what about your Inuits living off seal blubber and fish for 9 months of the year?

So you too are down to insult too now, iDave. For an "idiot" I'm doing a remarkably good job of demonstrating that your diet is indeed a fad diet that will be counter-productive in the long term and that iDave dieters would do better to eat a healthy, balanced diet in moderation, including aspects of the mediterranean diet if they wish to avoid cardiovascular disease and the cancers studies show it protects from.