But they believe in freedom of choice.
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dyna-ti
I’m not playing with you anymore 😡
Classic "free thinker" response - when faced with logical and rational arguments that dismantle their carefully constructed edifice of bollocks...
Classic “free thinker” response – when faced with logical and rational arguments that dismantle their carefully constructed edifice of bollocks…
Anna de Buisseret (celebrity tin-not not-quite-a-solicitor) had a meltdown last week on Twitter after Right Said Fred promoted a video of her wasting police time for the best part of an hour, haranguing them about arresting doctors and nurses because, umm, magna carta and the King James bible, or something - another one who links clinicians to the Nuremburg Trials (although no doctors or nurses were executed at the Nuremburg Trials* - a lawyer was, though...). What was noteworthy was that, despite all her flamboyant and often aggressive tweeting, she could not substantially detail a single one of her arguments. But still her nonsense is up there ensnaring the gullible...
* I draw a semantic distinction between the Nuremburg Trials where 12 were condemned to death and the Subsequent Nuremburg Trials. 🙂
The insane logic of the anti-vax.
People like this woman need held to account. Her actions had pretty much directly killed someone
What a xxxx
Also, Travel Insurance for Brits.
It was expensive for my wife to have travel insurance pre Covid with a disclosed auto immune condition, mainly due to hospital admissions etc that are also declared. We get 'free' travel insurance though our bank but she has always had to pay upwards of £500 a year - cheapest I've managed to get her was £300 for cover for a two week trip. She wanted to visit her sister in Spain this winter and was quoted over three times that this year for a short weekend visit.
Do you think we can afford to go back to that? or would you willingly accept millions of deaths through no vaccination and no restrictions?
Those are the only alternatives…
Omicron is not causing "millions of deaths".
Omicron is not causing “millions of deaths”.
Because of vaccines.
Because of vaccines.
Really?
I thought it had mutated and become a virus that mainly affected the upper respiratory system?
Omicron is not causing “millions of deaths”.
Because of vaccines.
^^^ This.
Plus about 48k a week dying of omicron on average since October. Not millions yet? Just wait.... 🙂
I thought it had mutated and become a virus that mainly affected the upper respiratory system?
Can't vaccines get it there? 🙂
Plus about 48k a week dying of omicron on average since October. Not millions yet? Just wait….
Dying of or dying with?
I thought it had mutated and become a virus that mainly affected the upper respiratory system?
And what difference would that make?
Dying of or dying with?
It's so, SO funny that this remains the chief weapon of the covid sceptic after almost two years of it being verifiably untrue in the UK. 🙂 Is it the same at the UN? No idea, I'm minded to think "of" as that's what our figures will be but let me know what you find out about it.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/01/1109652
Thread rapidly going of course - *waits for it to be blocked.....
I'm conflicted on the matter, I had covid in the first wave and had severe reactions to my first dose of AZ and the the follow up, yet it looks like I can't get medical exemption and still get bombarded with letters and texts to go and Get Boosted, go and get ****ed!
It’s so, SO funny that this remains the chief weapon of the covid sceptic after almost two years of it being verifiably untrue in the UK.
I'm not a covid sceptic.
I'm double jabbed.
I have carried a "vaccine passport" for 25 years, Hep A, B, Cholera, Yellow Fever, Flu, Tetanus to name a few.
And what difference would that make?
A lot.
A lot.
Such as?
gobuchul
Free Member
It’s so, SO funny that this remains the chief weapon of the covid sceptic after almost two years of it being verifiably untrue in the UK.I’m not a covid sceptic.
I’m double jabbed.
I have carried a “vaccine passport” for 25 years, Hep A, B, Cholera, Yellow Fever, Flu, Tetanus to name a few.
And what difference would that make?
A lot.
I'm so glad that there are so many unqualified expert virologists on STW. I'd much rather follow their advice than the combined advice of the international medical community.
I’m not a covid sceptic.
I didn't say you were. But the "of"/"with" debate is still, somehow, a daily occurrence on social media. It's insane.
I’m so glad that there are so many unqualified expert virologists on STW. I’d much rather follow their advice than the combined advice of the international medical community.
I am not offering any advice.
The virus is now endemic. We have to live with it.
Personally the only people I know who have suffered severe consequences from the pandemic, are not directly linked to the virus. Friends younger brother killed himself, another's sister died from health issues from basically not leaving the house for 18 mths and the FiL is now in a wheelchair after lockdown.
I am not offering any advice.
The virus is now endemic. We have to live with it.
Says "not offering advice", then offers advice. 🙂
Opinions vary but the WHO would disagree.
https://www.ft.com/content/a783f96e-c963-4dea-b54b-90bc6fda4915
.
gobuchul
Free MemberPersonally the only people I know who have suffered severe consequences from the pandemic, are not directly linked to the virus. Friends younger brother killed himself, another’s sister died from health issues from basically not leaving the house for 18 mths and the FiL is now in a wheelchair after lockdown.
OH. MY. GOD.
So, restrictions caused by attempting to stop the rampant spread of virus indirectly caused deaths, huh? Wow! Imagine if there were some sort of medicine that one could take which would make such restrictions unnecessary and thus prevent those deaths....
Omicron is not causing “millions of deaths”.
My point, was about the effectiveness of vaccines in preventing death (not just from the latest varient) when compared to the number of deaths caused by its administration and that it was of societal benefit (as highlighted by your anecdotal evidence) for little to no personal loss or risk.
gobuchul
Free MemberPersonally the only people I know who have suffered severe consequences from the pandemic, are not directly linked to the virus. Friends younger brother killed himself, another’s sister died from health issues from basically not leaving the house for 18 mths and the FiL is now in a wheelchair after lockdown.
OH. MY. GOD.
So, restrictions caused by attempting to stop the rampant spread of virus indirectly caused deaths, huh? Wow! Imagine if there were some sort of medicine that one could take which would make such restrictions unnecessary and thus prevent those deaths....
Omicron is not causing “millions of deaths”.
My point, was about the effectiveness of vaccines in preventing death (not just from the latest variant) when compared to the number of deaths caused by its administration and that it was of societal benefit (as highlighted by your anecdotal evidence) for little to no personal loss or risk.
So, restrictions caused by attempting to stop the rampant spread of virus indirectly caused deaths, huh? Wow! Imagine if there were some sort of medicine that one could take which would make such restrictions unnecessary and thus prevent those deaths….
Funnily enough they were all vaccinated. As I am and nearly everyone I know. I have only met 3 anti vaxxers personally in the last 2 years.
This virus is going nowhere.
It has mutated into a more contagious but less severe strain.
At the beginning of this, that was predicted by a number of virologists in the "main stream media". Not just on FB or Twitter.
It will continue to kill thousands of people in the UK every winter. The same as a number of other strains of coronavirus.
However, like so many other things in modern life, we as a society are extremely risk adverse and some cannot seem to accept this.
1645 isn’t quite my number but it’s close enough.
Hold on.
Is that not the number of deaths due to CV2 vaccination complications, for all time, globally? It's about comparable with the the number of Covid deaths in the UK just last week. And from this you've concluded that the vaccine is worse?
A quick google would suggest that 100+ people in the US die every year from reactions to peanuts (it may be higher, it's not something that has to be notified). If we were to extrapolate that out to the timescales and reach of the vaccination programme I expect you'd end up with a not dissimilar figure. Where are the anti-legumers screaming about how many people eat peanuts with no idea about what the consequences might be?
we as a society are extremely risk adverse and some cannot seem to accept this.
Yet you've highlighted the very real risk of the social measures we used to reduce infections in the past. We want to reduce such risks in future... by being more open/connected again... which vaccinations are helping us achieve.
This virus still isn't like cold and flu.
Yes, it's less severe in this variant, but it's MUCH more infectious and still VERY harmful to those who're unvaccinated far more so than for flu. Those people still need to be hospitalised, those people thus take up beds and ambulances and staff and resources and are missing from work and all of that largely through a choice to be exceptional for NO GOOD REASON.
I'd argue that those who chose not to get vaccinated are MORE risk averse than those who do. They're scared of what it might do, despite ALL the evidence to the contrary.
Hold on.
That’s the number of deaths due to vaccination complications, for all time, globally. It’s about comparable with the the number of Covid deaths in the UK just last week. And from this you’ve concluded that the vaccine is worse?
@cougar - that's (approximately) the UK number based on over 100 million+ doses.
I’m conflicted on the matter, I had covid in the first wave and had severe reactions to my first dose of AZ and the the follow up, yet it looks like I can’t get medical exemption and still get bombarded with letters and texts to go and Get Boosted, go and get ****ed!
While I understand your reluctance you do know you won't get az as a booster, right? Fwiw I didn't fair too well from my first two either but the booster was ok. I also made sure I took things easy. There giving pfizer or moderna for boosters.
Yet you’ve highlighted the very real risk of the social measures we used to reduce infections in the past. We want to reduce such risks… by being more open… which vaccinations are helping us achieve.
Do you think mass vaccination is the way forward since the Omicron variant?
Or do we do what we do for the other Corona type virus's that are endemic in the UK?
There a lot of people still calling for a lockdown, even now after the Sage modelling in December, was proven to be completely wrong.
For once BJ and his cronies made the right call, probably not for the right reasons but a stopped clock is right twice a day.
For once BJ and his cronies made the right call, probably not for the right reasons but a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Mrs Pondo is a secondary teacher - her school is screwed, high numbers of staff and pupils out with covid, lessons being cancelled and year groups sent to the hall to watch films because they gon't have enough staff in to cover and they cannot get cover teachers. One small example, I know, but I don't think going "f*** it, let it rip" is exactly the right call, TBH.
Do you think mass vaccination is the way forward since the Omicron variant?
Yes.
However, like so many other things in modern life, we as a society are extremely risk adverse and some cannot seem to accept this.
Has to be satire? The UK’s COVID-19 response, restrictions, observance and vaccine-uptake was flagrantly slow, patchy, contrary, poorly-observed and ultimately risky. All the while risking our economy, welcoming variants and making this shitshow drag on and on.
If not satire, then please compare UK to Singapore (Covid-19 cases and deaths per capita for the years 2020-2021)
Would you be interested to compare? For extra points compare the GDP growth for those two countries over the same years. It’s not a precise science but I think you’ll find that we have behaved/are behaving very riskily indeed.
gobuchul
Free Memberthe other Corona type virus’s that are endemic in the UK
You know they're not remotely the same don't you? COVID 19 is actually SARS-CoV2. Don't think of it as a common Covid variant, think of it as a second version of SARS combined with Covid. The reasons it's so lethal is the SARS aspect, the reason its so transmissive is the Covid aspect.
The MHRA states: “The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the vaccines has increased over the course of the campaigns and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination.
“However, this does not mean that there is a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccines played a role in these deaths.”
We know that the number of deaths caused by the vaccine is non-zero, but it's nowhere near 1645 - the actual number last August was 9, and by now is probably in the low tens. We now know what to look out for after vaccination so it's become relatively much safer than it was. Most of those 1645 may well have died of Covid - you know, died not of the vaccine but with the vaccine.
that’s (approximately) the UK number based on over 100 million+ doses.
No, it’s the number of people who died and was noted on the yellow card system they had the vaccine then died. It does not mean they died due to a result of the vaccine, they’re not verified figures.
The only confirmed figure I can find it that there were 5 up to August last year 5 out of a 100 million vaccines, 5. I’ll take those odds.
COVID 19 is actually SARS-CoV2. Don’t think of it as a common Covid variant, think of it as a second version of SARS combined with Covid. The reasons it’s so lethal is the SARS aspect, the reason its so transmissive is the Covid aspect.
The "CoV" bit there isn't covid, it's coronavirus.
SARS-Coronavirus-2 is the virus. Covid-19 is the disease you get from the viral infection. That's what the 'D' in Covid stands for.
@Cougar - You're completely right - I was conflating the two terms as they've been used interchangeably during he pandemic. Apologies.
i am much more troubled about making it a condition of employment on both a pragmatic and moral level.
I'm pretty sure there is precedent for requiring vaccinations for various jobs, but it's hard to Google for pre-covid stuff now.
I mean, look at Austria…. you can’t socialise in a bar for example if you aren’t ‘vaccinated’, but you can work in that same bar all day long serving customers, you can handle food, you can talk to customers, you can handle money, the only thing you can’t do is sit on the other side of the bar after your shift and have someone bring you a drink! You can’t tell me that’s about health?
One sober barperson vs 20 or 30 customers, all socialising, laughing (or singing if it's Austria) etc; the barperson presumably needs the job and its money to live, the customers don't need the drinks. Top tip for life - if you don't know the science, don't assume that you do. Easy to scorn something when you don't know what the reasoning is behind it.
1645 dead. 1645 families distraught.
But hey, that okdoky, you can add that on their remembrance card they were only part of the 0.000012%
But many MORE people would have died of COVID had we not had vaccinations. Surely you must understand this?
Do you think vaccination is the way forward
why, what do you think? Does it matter what we think? Ask an epidemiologist?
Many health experts say the best way to achieve some level of immunity is through vaccinations. As with natural immunity, vaccinated immunity may not last, but the cost will not be as high.
Take influenza, for example, commonly known as the flu. It’s a big respiratory virus that still sees seasonal outbreaks, but there are flu shots developed seasonally to help mitigate the worst of the effects. “That's what slowly seems to be happening with coronaviruses. It will change and become endemic,” Poland says.
“If you got your flu vaccine this fall, and I hope you did, then you got vaccinated against a variant of influenza that first showed up in 1918. So, a hundred-plus years later, we're still vaccinating against that,” Poland adds. “One hundred years from now, our great, great, whatever that will be, great grandchildren will be getting immunized against coronavirus.”
“I see Omicron as our kind of final warning shot,” Ostrosky says. If the U.S. doesn't do something “drastic and permanent,” Ostrosky believes COVID will mutate and produce a variant of high consequence, which means one that is totally resistant to the vaccines, therapeutics, and even detection through currently available testing.
Those drastic measures the U.S. needs to take? Widespread vaccination and mask use, Ostrosky says. He believes the U.S. needs to achieve a minimum threshold of having 60% to 70% of the population vaccinated across all locations, socioeconomic backgrounds, ethnicities, genders, ages, and races.
https://fortune.com/2022/01/05/experts-omicron-herd-immunity-not-long-terrible-cost/
when faced with logical and rational arguments that dismantle their carefully constructed edifice of bollocks…
And what edifice is that ?
No.....wait....dont tell me you think im anti vax.... 😯 😯 ....Im pro vax. I've had all three and if they want to give me a whole bunch more then sign me up.
Oh do try to keep up theres a good fellow.
🙄
No, you're an apologist. You're doggedly making excuses for people being wilfully obtuse and presenting the same baseless arguments over and over.
You (ironically) said something in capitals a couple of pages back about people being scared. So, sure, they're scared, but it's a fear born from ignorance. So do we try to reassure them or do we shrug and go "sure, freedom of choice"?
I’ve had all three and if they want to give me a whole bunch more then sign me up.
Do as I say, not as I do? It is a mystery how so many people are being put off, with such ringing endorsements from the likes of you.
No, it’s the number of people who died and was noted on the yellow card system they had the vaccine then died. It does not mean they died due to a result of the vaccine, they’re not verified figures.
The only confirmed figure I can find it that there were 5 up to August last year 5 out of a 100 million vaccines, 5. I’ll take those odds.
@Drac - It's comparable to figures in Germany and the US when using the Pfizer Vaccine. They have figures which show ~1200 and ~1000/100m respectively. Again - There may be underlying circumstances for many of them, but even with those numbers, it's still a vanishingly small number.
