[Closed] And what do points mean......?

Bit steep if you're in an industrial estate.

Why is it only new drivers that get insta-bans for being caught using a mobile? Ban them, ban them all! If driving is needed for your business, don't be a penis and use your mobile while driving.

Good. Let's hope they actually enforce it and look for ways to catch more people.

[i]Why is it only new drivers that get insta-bans for being caught using a mobile?[/i]

Because new drivers already get a ban at only 6 points, not 12.

Why is it only new drivers that get insta-bans for being caught using a mobile? Ban them, ban them all! If driving is needed for your business, don't be a penis and use your mobile while driving.

I guess it's to instill the message from a young age. I remember when I passed my test 6-7yrs ago, 6 points in the first 2yrs would see your license revoked.

Bit steep if you're in an industrial estate.

Eh?

What about the other traffic, pedestrians or cyclists in the industrial estate?

It's a road. Get off your phone. Or, if it's that desperate that you take that urgent call, pull over. Stop. Then take the call. It'll be something that really could have waited until you got home, but never mind.

Good. See multiple people every day using phones while driving.

Only good if it's enforced. Like the places where people know the coppers are not going to be so fine to head home after a couple two many.

How about some stiffer punishments for actually running people over. And for not giving enough room.etc...

Question. If your phone is attached to a windscreen holder, are you ok to touch it to make calls, hang up, enter sat nav details etc ? Or is it an offence to simply touch the thing.

...prizes!

[img] [/img]

New drivers who get six points or more must retake their practical and theory. More experienced drivers can be banned if they get 12 points in three years.

I don't think they're ever going to be as poplar as nectar points with rewards like that

Or is it an offence to simply touch the thing.

That was the inference on TV this morning. You set it before moving off and don't touch it.

How this squares with ever more complicated in-car Sat-Nav and media systems I don't know.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Eh?

What about the other traffic, pedestrians or cyclists in the industrial estate?

I think it was a joke about captainsasquatch's 49 in a 40 through an industrial estate last week....

enter sat nav details etc

You're not allowed to mess around with satnav whilst driving as it is

Flash

See here:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/49mph-in-a-40mph-limit

You're not allowed to mess around with satnav whilst driving as it is

So how about changing channels on your radio, or moving to the next tune on a cd ?

I thought that if the unit (phone or radio) was fixed you were ok. Obviously not composing texts though.

I remember seeing one of those police camera stop type programs (a more serious version I think) and the experienced traffic officer on it was saying it's the biggest problem they face and he had seen so many accidents because of phone use. I suppose when you've seen people mangled beyond recognition all because someone was using their phone you tend to gain a bit better perspective on it. 🙁

lowey - Member
Question. If your phone is attached to a windscreen holder, are you ok to touch it to make calls, hang up, enter sat nav details etc ? Or is it an offence to simply touch the thing.

You simply can't touch a mobile phone of r any reason unless 'safely parked'. Several groups campaigned against this when the law was brought in as there is nothing [u]specific[/u] about satnavs, radios, ICE etc

In theory, you can be nicked if you have pulled over & stopped if you don't meet with the l[url= https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law ]egal definition of 'parked'[/url] which includes engine/lights off etc.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Bit steep if you're in an industrial estate.

Eh?

[i]Question. If your phone is attached to a windscreen holder, are you ok to touch it to make calls, hang up, enter sat nav details etc ? Or is it an offence to simply touch the thing. [/i]

My understanding is that if you have to touch the phone to answer a call that's not 'hands free'.

Using it as a sat nav/music device etc would be covered by existing legislation abotu 'due care and attention' the same as a built in sat nav or stereo.

[url= https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law ]https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law[/url]

penalty is out of date on this page but elaborates on using buttons:

[url= http://www.inbrief.co.uk/motoring-law/mobile-phones-and-driving/ ]http://www.inbrief.co.uk/motoring-law/mobile-phones-and-driving/[/url]

My understanding is that the offence is "using a mobile communications device" so if you are using (by using they mean touching) your phone to do sat nav stuff then thats an offence. Using built in sat nav etc could be driving without due care and attention as in fact could be anything other than driving the car (smoking, eating an apple etc).

We're still okay to shave whilst driving though, right?

Ah, it was 'humour'. I see.
🙂

How about we use the modern mobile GPS tech that monitors movement to simply prevent phone use while on the move?

Isn't that how jimmy carr's lawyer got him off a phone offence? Claimed that he was using it as a dictaphone (to record a joke) rather than a telephone.
Yup...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/6350399/Jimmy-Carr-cleared-of-using-mobile-while-driving.html

Good. See multiple people every day using phones while driving.

and when you honk your horn at them they get all angry and look like they want to kill you or try and run you off the road (had an X5 driver do that to me in Bristol when I beeped as he nearly reversed into my while talking on his phone).

You're not allowed to mess around with satnav whilst driving as it is

You are if it's something like iDrive and the control knob is discretely positioned near the gear lever 😉

Ah, it was 'humour'. I see

Exactly. Like bombers, Woppit's bombings, no pudding and, er, gym pumps in the first class cabin. That sort of thing 😉

Can I still use the phone to film people talking on theirs? How else can I do the police's job for them?

From that link above:

What is meant by a hand held communications device?

A hand held communications device is something that must at some point be held in the hand of an individual while they are making or receiving a voice call or another form of communication.

So that implies you're ok to use a phone (as a sat nav for instance) if it's in aeroplane mode?

We aren't even allowed to use hands free (I have voice activated phone in my Focus) while driving for work. Apparently studies done that say hands free can be just as distracting and likely to cause accident. I use it on personal time with my personal phone but only rarely now.

It's nice to be free of the phone while driving.

So that implies you're ok to use a phone (as a sat nav for instance) if it's in aeroplane mode?

No as at some point you can use it in your hands to make or take a phonecall.

[i]Can I still use the phone to film people talking on theirs?[/i]

The trick is to lean right across the car so it looks like you were filming from the passenger seat*. hth

*it isn't.

Exactly. Like bombers, Woppit's bombings, no pudding and, er, gym pumps in the first class cabin. That sort of thing

I'd missed the source material. And they're bike shoes. 😉

And they're bike shoes

I thought they were Final Approach Shoes.

Orthopaedic ones.

I'd missed the source material

I'll have a baby robin deliver a link.

I'll have a baby robin deliver a link.

Pushed through the letter box?

(Sorry. Derailing my own thread!)

😀

(I have the same shoes as CFH, although in a more MTB and less gym pump colour scheme, but I have never worn them on an aeroplane)

Pushed through the letter box?

No that would be for yellow bears.

Also, why are radios exempt? As in walkie talkies, rather than music players.

Also, why are radios exempt? As in walkie talkies, rather than music players.

Because Smokey and the Bandit

Ten four

Copy that, good buddy!

The amount of people I see with heads level but eyes looking down into their laps, trying to hide their phone use is what scares me.

It's just so entrenched in modern habit that it really is going to be difficult if not impossible to make a sea change to behaviour.

In a crazy sort of way I've wondered if allowing use in full view might actually be safer than the current situation where so many are clearly eyes down! 😕

Difficult one to tackle but I'm glad they're making moves to address it.

How about we use the modern mobile GPS tech that monitors movement to simply prevent phone use while on the move?

Not sure how you'd get around passenger use?

Whilst i applaud cracking down on motorists on the phone, it does seem the Police just target things that will be an "easy score", straight to Court and don't pass go.

Got knocked off my bike twice commuting last year, first time, lady from a side road, i went over her bonnet and put heel through her windscreen. Police response, let insurers sort it out, despite my being injured.

Second time, a white Transit hit me just as i was riding along, and drove off, witness behind stopped, phoned police, gave them the registration number and the name of the company on the side, Police stated it tallied to a local firm and a Transit, and despite me breaking to ribs and loads of bruising, they haven't even taken a statement from the witness.

Obviously involved them having to do some leg work, i must admit i have lost of lot of respect for them as they seem to just go for the traffic offences that produce an instant result and no further work for them.

captainsasquatch - Member

You should be used to drac's bizarre sense of humour by now.

Yeah, it's funnier if you wilfully bang your car door into cars that have parked too close in a car park.

I'm driving right now, if you are on the motorway you don't need to watch the road all the time, just glance up every 20 seconds or so.

Whilst i applaud cracking down on motorists on the phone, it does seem the Police just target things that will be an "easy score", straight to Court and don't pass go.

+1

Great in theory. As long as they're not just gonna walk down stationary traffic jams trying to catch people out. Or doing people who have pulled over to take a call because the engine's running or something.

Second time, a white Transit hit me just as i was riding along, and drove off, witness behind stopped, phoned police, gave them the registration number and the name of the company on the side, Police stated it tallied to a local firm and a Transit, and despite me breaking to ribs and loads of bruising, they haven't even taken a statement from the witness.

Thats proper crap! If you have a witness... can you not chase them up for a response at least ?

Back to the nitty gritty though...

A hand held communications device is something that must at some point be held in the hand of an individual while they are making or receiving a voice call or another form of communication.

So how about if its fixed in a proper windscreen holder ?

1 out of ten hexhamstu. And that's being generous!

Yeah, it's funnier if you wilfully bang your car door into cars that have parked too close in a car park.

So how about if its fixed in a proper windscreen holder ?

[quote=lowey ]
So how about if its fixed in a proper windscreen holder ?

I'#ve been wondering too Lowey, you;re not alone. Also from [url= http://www.inbrief.co.uk/motoring-law/mobile-phones-and-driving/ ]the link on page 1[/url] :

Am I able to talk on my phone using a hands free kit whilst driving?

Talking on a hands free kit is deemed to be within the law as the individual is allowed to push buttons but they are not allowed to actually hold the phone. This means that the phone should be kept in a cradle which is attached to the dashboard of the car. If an individual is using a hands free but is still holding the phone to press buttons then they will be in contravention of the law.

Don't built-in satnavs stop allowing you to mess with them when you drive off? Mine does, dunno if it's common or not.

[irony overload]

Journalist attending a local police 'cracking down on mobile phone use' photo op just tweeted:

[i]a journalist driving here to cover phone/driving crackdown has just been busted: £200, 6pts.[/i]

[/irony overload]

Pushed through the letter box?

A Peter Tatchell has been dispatched to your location.

[i]Don't built-in satnavs stop allowing you to mess with them when you drive off? Mine does, dunno if it's common or not. [/i]

not on my BMW - you can reroute, accept alternatives due to traffic etc when driving

Cheers Jules.

Why not just accept that it's wrong to use a phone rather than trying to circumvent the law?

Thanks for that helpful answer.

What's funny is watching people misquoting or deliberately misunderstanding in attempts to win points or the internet or something.

Stop whining.

How about we use the modern mobile GPS tech that monitors movement to simply prevent phone use while on the move?

Some sat nav phone apps do that - they're resistant to taking new inputs when the cars in motion - asking for extra button pushes/confirmation clicks (basically asking you to confirm that you're not the driver) that you'd only be able to respond to easily as a passenger. But of the three apps I use only one behaves in that way so if meddling with the phone in motion is something you want to do you'd just choose those apps.

Stop whining.

Some sat nav phone apps do that - they're resistant to taking new inputs when the cars in motion - asking for extra button pushes/confirmation clicks (basically asking you to confirm that you're not the driver) that you'd only be able to respond to easily as a passenger. But of the three apps I use only one behaves in that way so if meddling with the phone in motion is something you want to do you'd just choose those apps.

The Waze app does that. Just click 'I am the passenger' and you're good to go.

The [s]Waze[/s] Pokemon Go app does that. Just click 'I am the passenger' and you're good to go.

FTFY

Why not just accept that it's wrong to use a phone rather than trying to circumvent the law?

Establishing what you are and aren't allowed to do isn't circumventing anything, it's ensuring that you're complying with the law, you dirty great troll you.

Don't built-in satnavs stop allowing you to mess with them when you drive off?

The one in my Hyundai didn't. It just popped an unskippable warning for several seconds that you'd to tap to agree to, every single time you started the car.

I'm now in a Passat (hi Molly) - the settings menu in the dash disables itself when the car is moving, but the sat nav doesn't give a toss either way. Not quite sure why they thought one was fine and the other not.

The [s]Waze[/s] [s]Pokemon Go[/s] Iggy Pop app does that. Just click 'I am the passenger' and you're good to go.

FTFY.

Why not just accept that it's wrong to use a phone rather than trying to circumvent the law?

Because It's not "circumventing the law" as the law says it's perfectly fine to use as a handsfree, or as a satnav etc, as long as you don't hold it in your hand.

What you mean is "why not just do what [b]I[/b] think the law says, rather than find out what it [i]actually[/I] says"

That differentiation between a phone being held and one being pressed matches my understanding of the law.

tomhoward - Member

Also, why are radios exempt? As in walkie talkies, rather than music players.

I believe the legislation states two way comms device, CB radio is one way. Apparently these are less distracting.
I'd have trouble reciting my own name to a passenger whilst driving, let alone having a conversation on the phone. 😳

Whilst I think this new set of points/fines and wotnot is generally a good thing, how the hell are the police going to enforce it? Routinely I see no rozzers on the motorway even when doing a 4 hour schlep, and the local bobbies don't really seem to GAS as they head back for more doughnuts. And I bet they lack recording ability in their cars for proof purposes.

It's another piece of government led legislation that has headlines and no teeth, I'm afraid. Don't forget that Thomaz bloke last year was sent down for 10 years for four deaths...

I'd have trouble reciting my own name to a passenger whilst driving, let alone having a conversation on the phone.

Maybe you should slow down a bit...? (-:

Cougar - Moderator

Maybe you should slow down a bit...? (-:

I'd have trouble due to focussing on the more important task of driving, rather than due to any excessive accelerative forces...

Have I missed something?

(T'was an exaggeration anyway; I've had to give commentated drives)

Fines, points etc are all well good unfortunately where are the police who are going to enforce it? Driving in to work on the M62 this morning, traffic slow moving but moving nonetheless. Several offenders with their heads at the right angle but eyee pointing down.

People will take no notice unless there is a visible deterent.

Has everyone downloaded and installed the Big Brother app, so police can see who is breaking the law from an office and ban/fine them?

The clarification that I saw was that touching the phone with one finger is ok. So, in a cradle and using a hands free kit, pressing sat nav buttons, etc. will be fine.

Shouldn't be, but will be.

where are the police who are going to enforce it?

The police round here recently ended their 51 weeks of turning a blind eye to phone use, for seven days. They called it a seven day crackdown, but whatever.

How about we use the modern mobile GPS tech that monitors movement to simply prevent phone use while on the move?
Not sure how you'd get around passenger use?

Or in a train?

Actually.......

captainsasquatch - Member

What's funny is watching people misquoting or deliberately misunderstanding in attempts to win points or the internet or something.

...hmmm, it seems your memory is as bad as your attitude when in a car.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/if-you-dented-someones-car-would-you-own-up ]From your first post on this thread[/url]

I've sometimes dinged people who've parked too close to me. If they care so little about their property, I don't see why I should.

People will take no notice unless there is a visible deterent.

Stirling today, police on two main roads into the city pulling folk over for phones / windows not de-iced etc

It depends on your priorities as a police force and politicians.