To any normal person and government the banning of guns is the answer. We did it, Australia did it while Germany has incredibly strict gun laws. The fact that so many kids have been killed and nothing gets done should tell you how stupid the Americans are.
To any normal person and government the banning of guns is the answer. We did it, Australia did it while Germany has incredibly strict gun laws. The fact that so many kids have been killed and nothing gets done should tell you how stupid the Americans are.
It would be interesting to see what the gun ownership statistics for the UK or Australia were pre and post legislation change to see if they were in any way comparable to the US. On the surface it seems a logical comparison and a valid argument but I get the feeling the size, culture and political situation in America might make it moot.
"Coyote:
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You are either beyond help or trolling."
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Why not both?
In doing so, you are falling into a trap.
I'm not sure I (specifically, me) am, although I see what you mean. .
Really really bad guys will always have guns. Or hire vans, or home made bombs or whatever. That's a different matter. And it'll always need someone with the ultimate capability to stop them.
Actually the issue is 'mildly disgruntled' guys who have far too easy access to the means to do something truly bad with it.
Remove the easy access and it becomes a major (criminal) task to get the guns and the ammo, in which time you can either be more readily spotted and stopped, or frankly you calm down again.
But that isn't happening and hence in the meantime whether a devout terrorist or a kid who's just got a bad test mark, they can basically achieve the same but one's almost on a whim in terms of the level of planning needed.
As long as bad guys have guns, good guys will also need them. But we have to understand what we mean by 'good guys', and my belief in that does not extrapolate to 'everyone needs one'. In fact the opposite, because of the potential problems caused by well meaning but incapable my belief is that with the obvious exception of those properly trained to carry and use them, good guys should give up their guns, because then the derogation is far easier to spot - if he's got a gun, he's the bad guy.
But like we said, a 'right to bear arms' fanatic will refuse to see that, so it ain't happening any time soon, and in the meantime........
I once stopped a bad guy with a gun with the hypnotic art of morris dance.
Its worth noting that the modern "i got pissed off and wasted my class mates with an assault riffle" type shootings are not, generally speaking, carried out by highly trained, hard nosed criminals.
They are carried out by kids disenchanted with their life, who "take it out" on their school, because for them, that is the biggest thing in their life at the time.
Typically, that "sort" of aggressor is not likely to have the necessary underworld criminal connections to easily source an assault rifle if they were to be made illegal to own and carry. If you make weapons highly illegal and with big penalties then yes, you WILL drive those weapons underground, but as a side effect, the serious criminals (the big drug gangs etc) are not going to be selling those guns to a bunch of school kids because the weapon itself becomes too valuable and too risky to sell to someone who yo know is going to blab to the police where they got it immediately.
We all get pissed off with other people sometimes, generally it's a verbal exchange, sometimes fists are thrown, in a rare exception, people get stabbed, but because you can't just turn around and lay your hands on a gun without preemption, that's generally where it stops. At a fundamental level that brings the risks and probability of mass injury and death down significantly, despite there still being a relatively big pool of "underground" weapons in circulation.
should tell you how stupid the Americans are.
I don't think it's an issue with stupidity (aside from making rash generalisations about 300+ million people being pretty stupid, but y'know). Guns are deeply ingrained into their culture and identity. In the UK, unless you've spent a good amount of time in the US then it's really beyond our comprehension to understand the mindset (and even then it's difficult). Suggesting banning guns in the US would be like tackling obesity over here by banning cheese.
I once stopped a bad guy with a gun with the hypnotic art of morris dance.
You're unbelievably lucky to be alive.
I once stopped a bad guy with a gun with the hypnotic art of morris dance.
Amazing bladder control?
I once stopped a bad guy with a gun with the hypnotic art of morris dance
Sadly 24 other bystanders died from the shame of being seen to be watching a Morris dance.
I find rolling a pencil between my fingers and looking really serious sends the bad guys packing. Much more effective and already in most schools.
The fact that so many kids have been killed and nothing gets done should tell you how stupid the Americans are.
Hmmm.. thats a pretty ignorant and ill informed comment.
I find rolling a pencil between my fingers and looking really serious sends the bad guys packing
I had a maths teacher who used to stand at the blackboard* and start writing on it with the chalk in his left hand.
When he reached the middle of the board, he would switch the chalk to his right hand and carry on in exactly the same handwriting.
He gave me the fear.
*It's an oldskool thing. Ask your parents.
Taking on a shooter armed with any kind of rifle if you only have a pistol takes a heck of a lot of bottle. Pistols are nowhere near as effective or accurate as you see on the TV and become even less accurate if someone is shooting at you in the first place!
I've seen Youtube videos of people robbing shops in the US and being shot multiple times at close range with a 9mm handgun and they still won't go down. Pick a heavier calibre and they become harder to shoot plus you risk over penetration so potentially wounding people behind the target.
Im confused how placing a SF veteran, off the back of a couple of tours in the middle east, likely suffering from ptsd and at an above average risk of taking their own life would be a productive solution to school safety?
An elite operative whose unstable mental state who has been demoted to babysitting an entire school with a few kids that cant help but poke fun at his new job, flies off the handle and tactically takes out the entire school.
I think they might try and weed them out at the selection part of this process
The point being that is the level of skill and training required to be effective and how pointless the whole idea is. It would also probably be counter productive as it almost guarantees the blaze of glory exit
Guns are deeply ingrained in the US culture - have a read of the (deliberate) legal obstacles placed in the way of tracing the owners of guns used in crimes in hte US - https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns
Even if a gun store that has gone out of business hands over records that it had kept on computer files, Charlie can't use them. He has to have the files printed out, and then the ladies take pictures of them and store them that way. Anything that allows people to search by name is verboten.
The point being that is the level of skill and training required to be effective
How much skill and training does the 16 year old kid (or fat, 50 year old weird bloke) trying to shoot the kids have?
Once more Muriel Gray nails it.
How much skill and training does the 16 year old kid (or fat, 50 year old weird bloke) trying to shoot the kids have?
You’re trolling skills are getting worse.
fat, 50 year old weird bloke
Don't be too hard on yourself, have you tried cutting out carbs?.......
Just had a look at Gun Owners of America on Facebook. They are even more nuts and paranoid than the NRA
If you give up your guns, then the criminals running the government decide to haul you to a FEMA determent camp & liquidate you and your loved ones...bet your final thought will be 'why did I give up my guns!'
It’s fine folks apparently the guard was a coward.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43174069
Shame Trump hadn't been there - I'm sure President Bone Spur would have been able to take the shooter down.
It would have been great.
How much skill and training does the 16 year old kid (or fat, 50 year old weird bloke) trying to shoot the kids have?
indeed being the first responder forced to tackle the armed madman with a semi automatic weapon whilst victims flee everywhere is indeed very much the same skill level as wandering into a building and shooting lots of unarmed people
An SAS soldier confirmed this to me as a fact
You dont have post some utter nonsense
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"How much skill and training does the 16 year old kid (or fat, 50 year old weird bloke) trying to shoot the kids have?"
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It's almost as though the skill and training is needed to overcome the massive disadvantages in firepower, forewarning and mental preparation. Not to mention that the responder as well as changing gears from teaching the correct use of the apostrophe to shooting someone, is trying to shoot one person without getting killed or shooting the wrong person, while the attacker is happy with shooting anyone and usually not all that stressed about getting shot. Oh maybe and it's one of your pupils- someone you know, someone you've taught, no doubt that helps.
(I am not a teacher but I work in a university so it's pretty close) I used to be a reasonable shot. With a bit of regular practice i could be again... So then, all I'd have to worry about is going from posting on STW (let's be realistic) to the horror and confusion of the scene, correctly identifying the right target, deciding whether that particular dude over there with the gun is a Goodie or a Baddie, dealing with the shock of probably seeing people I know who've just been killed... And then, if it's one of my students, actually bringing myself to shoot them down instead of wanting to talk them down...
Bollocks to that. I'm a first responder and I don't even relish the idea of trying to deal with a real medical emergency in a hurry, let alone intervening in that way. The absolute best case scenario is that it's probably the worst experience of your life.
President Bone Spur
That's Cadet Bone Spur
Ah it's OK, Trump has the solution- a ratings system for movies.
If they arm teachers.
If the police officer rushes in quickly, for fear of the orange Buffoons wrath.
How will the police and armed, multiple teachers and coaches be able to decide in half a nano second which one is the baddy to be shot?
I think we can all spot why it's such a shit idea. If only seemingly half of America could.......
You dont have post some utter nonsense
FFS - follow your own advice! Though I've come to the conclusion he's just stupid given his pitiful attempts at trolling on this subject.
How much skill and training does the 16 year old kid (or fat, 50 year old weird bloke) trying to shoot the kids have?
You know, on many of your posts, like many on the Brexit thread for example, I merely vehemently disagree with your opinions.
When you post stuff like this, I start to genuinely believe that there's something wrong with your critical thinking ability, and it disturbs me that you have access to guns.
Im confused how placing a SF veteran, off the back of a couple of tours in the middle east, likely suffering from ptsd and at an above average risk of taking their own life would be a productive solution to school safety?
An elite operative whose unstable mental state who has been demoted to babysitting an entire school with a few kids that cant help but poke fun at his new job, flies off the handle and tactically takes out the entire school.
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Not to rustle the echo chamber but anecdotally at least, special forces veterans suffer considerably less ptsd and are less prone to suicide than regular veterans. But frothing hyperbole aside, arming teachers is still silly.
Looks like I was right earlier then Cougar.
Now then, it wasn’t me who made ‘skill and training’ a big deal - but given that the perpetrators of these crimes are generally sad, pathetic losers then them not knowing how many or who might have a gun and even a moderate level of training would be more of a deterrent effect than a big sign saying “no guns here”
For what it’s also worth, if we take Northern Ireland police officers (people who we appear to be happy to let walk around the British streets with guns and put themselves in harms way to stop armed terrorists and protect us) they get a two week firearm training course at a cost of £582, plus most get a one day a year refresher. In the context of four years training to become a teacher that’s easily achievable, you could even build it into the course, job jobbed.
Hmm lets see a police officer, an officer of the law so to say, even in our gun averse society police in the UK have a proportion of fire arms officers so its hardly a big leap to have officers in a country that the "gun" ruled for many years routinely armed.
The salient point is they are trained police officers who's main job is upholding the law & yet still make mistakes despite this super cheap 2 week course!!
I know your Trolling but please just stop for 1 moment every time you want to jab away at the keyboard with the contents of your latest brain fart & think WHY?
Looks like I was right earlier then Cougar.
they get a two week firearm training course at a cost of £582, plus most get a one day a year refresher<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> </span>
Of course, like the rest of the UK, the PSNI has a far smaller number of specialist firearms officers who get sent in when its thought there might be the need to use firearms. The rest are armed more for self defence.
If you have actually spent time shooting you would know that 2 weeks is bugger all for learning from scratch. You arent going to be safe to start having a firefight in a school.
Ninfan just pack it in please you're so obvious.
Hmmm.. thats a pretty ignorant and ill informed comment.
really - what did the UK government do after Dumblane? we've had one school shooting in my living memory (1996).
lets look at america
2018, February 14 - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 deaths)
- 2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 deaths)
- 2015, October 1 - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 deaths)
- 2014, October 24 - Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 deaths)
- 2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 deaths)
- 2012, December 14 - Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
- 2012, April 2 - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
- 2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
- 2007, April 6 - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
- 2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
- 2005, March 21 - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
- 1999, April 20 - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
- 1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
- 1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
- 1991, November 1 - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
- 1989, January 17 - Stockton schoolyard shooting - (6 deaths)<sup id="cite_ref-10" class="reference">[10]</sup>
- 1976, July 12 - California State University, Fullerton massacre - (7 deaths)
Until the NRA stop throwing money at politicians or it becomes so politically toxic to support them that politicians stop accepting their money then it won't change.
Also America has about 3.2 million teachers, not including teaching assistants etc, so how much is it going to cost to train them and who is going to pay for it?
Something has gone wrong with the new forum though, the trolling wasn't upgraded and is very poor now. Can we get some russian bots or something in to fill in.
3.2M new gun sales if they arm Teachers!! $$$$$$$$$$$$ You can see why moron trump thinks its a good idea......
ar-15 semi and with a bump stop
Bloody hell that’s nearly as quick as a double barrel shotgun.
Why anyone feels the need to own one of them to keep in their home is incredible.