MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I think you mean a [i]Chinese[/i] 'plane. A china 'plane would be a tad impractical, methinks.. 😉
Blimey, those Chinese will copy anything! Watches, Handbags, and now fighter aircraft!
very Eurofighter looking as per eurofighter does not look to be very stealth..
Blimey, those Chinese will copy anything!
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions ]Yeah, 'cos it's not like any Chinese inventions/discoveries/developments have ever been copied or used anywhere else...[/url]
So they [b][u]used to[/b][/u] be inventive. And? The Romans also invented a few things, but Italy isn't currently known as being the world's major source of counterfeit goods.
I wonder how many parts for the Eurofighter are actually sourced from the Far East in the first place?
Probably quite a few. I wonder how many surprisingly similar looking parts for this aircraft come out of exactly the same factories?
That's exactly my point. Design something in Europe. Have it made in China where production is cheap, and watch how long it takes for the factory to copy and breach your design copyright! I speak from extensive experience!
In my last job we had a firm in from Germany to perform some very special analysis on a machine-tool, they'd been out to China the year before and had the equipment (there's only a handful in the world) compounded by chinese customs for 8 months. You dont have to be too cynical to think the they were basically stripping the equipment down and reverse engineering it. Apparently Chinese customs employs quite a few engineers.
And then there's the numerous cyber attacks on British (and probably other nationalities) defence contracters I.T systems.
Exactly. They should add reverse engineering to that Wikipedia page of Chinese inventions!
So they used to be inventive. And?
Actually they still are. Open your mind a bit, and have a Google, and you might learn something.
Many things we enjoy today are derived from Chinese inventions/discoveries. Few countries/regions have given the World so much as China. To think of China as some sort of backward, low-tech country is truly ignorant, and reveals just how much Western propaganda has infected peoples' minds.
Open your mind a bit, and have a Google, and you might learn something.
I feel well and truly patronised! Interesting approach Talkemada.
My point is not that the Chinese are not inventive. It is true that they are an industrial superpower. But they are also incredibly corrupt and prone to stealing other people's intellectual property. That's not idle speculation, it's a fact.
Well lets face it. In a democracy you will always find minions who have their price and sell complete blueprints.. $$$$$$$$.
In Communism dissidents usually bleat about conditions/intelligence.
Oh, and The West isn't? 🙄
Granted, the counterfeiting thing is an issue, but not one that negatively affects China, as their economy benefits. As does ours in the UK, from exploitation of foreign lands. We're no angels, you know. Have a look around!
As for the fighter jet; that looks pretty much how most jets produced in the last 10 years look. Probably because the evolution or aeronautic design has proved this to be the most effective solution. And if they've copied it, so what? It's a piece of military hardware, and as the saying goes; 'All's fair, in Love and War'.
A copy maybe but as it's Chinese it'll be made from sub-standard materials and soon break up whilst in flight. I hope they didn't scrimp on the ejector seat and parachute....
for 30 million £/$ we should buy some!!!!!and if they can build us 2 aircraft carriers even better....
[i]And if they've copied it, so what? [/i]
I don't know enough about the creation and design of jet fighters. I was under the impression that eurofighter/Typhoon had been years in the development, and had cost billions to get into production, but that the finished product was a very, very good interceptor which was supposed to be somewhat better than anything it was likely to fight, at least for a little while. The point of having supersonic interceptors being to fight other people's aircraft out of your airspace so as to be able either to protect your territory from aerial bombing or to protect the manouevre of your troops.
If the Chinese have simply made something that looks broadly similar and works OK, fine, that's a potential strategic difficulty but bound to happen eventually. They can do things cheaper as a result of cheaper labur costs and a managed economy.
If they've been able to simply put a carbon copy into production as a result of being able to get the plans, tooling and electronics through espionage or whatever and without putting in the investment, then that's a problem. How big or bad a problem depends on who they are sold to and to what extent diffusion of them affects the ability of us or our allies to maintain air superiority in whatever theatre our airforce is operating in.
Does anybody [i]know[/i] whether it just looks similar because that's what jet fighters look like, or whether it's actually a rip-off?
[EDIT: nothing in this post is an attempt to patronise anyone, I was thinking and typing 🙂 ]
it just looks similar because that's what jet fighters look like
I think that's it, basically.
I'm not familiar with current fighter jets, but these all share similar characteristics.
Who's copying who?
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BAe (Eurofighter/Typhoon) had a fair amount of input into several SAAB aIRcraft, IIRC: Sweden would've been the front line (for a couple of hours, at least!) so it made sense to see to it that they had some decent hardware to fight/delay the Ruskies. Hence some crossover is inevitable.
[i]I hope they didn't scrimp on the ejector seat and parachute.... [/i]
Not so much of a problem when you've got a near infinite supply of willing volunteers to fly the things.
for 30 million £/$ we should buy some!!!!!
It may look similar to what the western nations have, but its way behind on the technology stakes.
looks like the bastard child of a Typhoon and an F16
[i]I don't know enough about the creation and design of jet fighters. I was under the impression that eurofighter/Typhoon had been years in the development, and had cost billions to get into production, but that the finished product was a very, very good interceptor which was supposed to be somewhat better than anything it was likely to fight, at least for a little while. The point of having supersonic interceptors being to fight other people's aircraft out of your airspace so as to be able either to protect your territory from aerial bombing or to protect the manouevre of your troops.[/i]
Against who exactly?
A few years ago the NZ Air Force almost persuaded the government to buy some ex-US fighters, until a bright spark asked who they were to defend against - as in who could actually put an aircraft into the air above NZ.
It may look similar to what the western nations have, but its way behind on the technology stakes.
Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure. I've learned that the Chinese developed the 'plane following purchase of some SU-27 jets from Russia. Their development, the Shenyang J-11 , apparently has a top speed of Mach 2.3, which puts it up there with the fastest jet fighters.
Similar scorn used to be shown towards the USSR's military hardware. They have the fastest jet fighters of any weapon producing nation.
China may produce a lot of cheap tat, but don't be fooled into thinking their tech is that low...
The problem is China is spending loads on military-why???
Because they invade other weaker countries and I don't why we can't just boycott buying crap from them.
good god that's ugly
Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure. I've learned that the Chinese developed the 'plane following purchase of some SU-27 jets from Russia. Their development, the Shenyang J-11 , apparently has a top speed of Mach 2.3, which puts it up there with the fastest jet fighters.Similar scorn used to be shown towards the USSR's military hardware. They have the fastest jet fighters of any weapon producing nation.
China may produce a lot of cheap tat, but don't be fooled into thinking their tech is that low...
A telling reply showing your lack of knowledge. 🙄
Go on then. enlighten me...
speed is not everything with fighter jets. agility is also highly valued. It might be mach 3 in a straight line but if it can get turned inside out by something slower, it's going to be in trouble
Because they invade other weaker countries and I don't why we can't just boycott buying crap from them.
Erm...
Because Capitalism doesn't concern itself with ethics, sadly. And, even considering China's terrible Human Rights record, the West , especially the UK and USA, are hardly in a position of moral authority.
As for Chinese tech; whilst it may be true that much of the goods they export are of lower quality than might be found elsewhere, to underestimate their potential and actual technological prowess is naive and shortsighted. Unlike the West, which is only too keen to boast about it's strengths, China has quietly been getting on with watching, learning and developing relatively unnoticed...
Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure. I've learned that the Chinese developed the 'plane following purchase of some SU-27 jets from Russia. Their development, the Shenyang J-11 , apparently has a top speed of Mach 2.3, which puts it up there with the fastest jet fighters.
Does that mean we should get that English Electric lightening off Clarksons lawn then? That's the fastest jet the RAF have ever had...
As long as they don't have our helmets and tracking and targeting capability they will remain miles behind in effectiveness.
As long as they don't have [b]our[/b] helmets and tracking and targeting capability they will remain miles behind in effectiveness.
See there's the thing. I'm sure most folk in the West would love to believe that they are safe from foreign powers, and that their nation's technology is superior to that of it's rivals, but in all truth, none of us here have a clue about what the Chinese military is up to. Reports of stuff like their planes etc being 'behind ours' technology wise, are little more than propaganda designed to help us feel safer in our beds.
Until recently, China has concentrated on protecting it's borders, rather than deploying military personnel and equipment around the Globe. So they've not 'needed' the kind of technology that the West has developed. Much of Western military technology has been developed as a result of the Cold War, something the Chinese pretty much stayed out of. Now that the Cold War is over, the West has had to find new 'targets' to point it's weapons at. Enter China, a nation who are looking to expand their Global economic interests and influence. So, China then starts to feel the threat of Western military might, and begins to develop it's own more modern military systems. Whatever 'gap' in technology might exist now, that is being closed very rapidly. The Dragon Awakes...
none of us here have a clue about what the Chinese military is up to.
I think thats quite a sweeping statement with no real meat to back it up. For a lot of the aspects of technology we know exactly what their capabilities are, as they do for ours.
Which is why contrary to what was posted earlier in this thread, no parts for military jets are manufactured in China, in fact sourcing raw material from China is also not allowed for military hardware.
TBH, the whole debate about who's got the "best" plane becomes a little bit academic when your "enemy" can field Millions (literally in the case of China's armies) of tanks, planes, helicopters etc etc...
China's also developing a "blue water" navy capability as well, with ports being opened in African nations.
Balance of power is slowly but surely shifting back East...
TBH, the whole debate about who's got the "most" planes becomes a little bit academic when your "enemy" can field thousands of Nukes