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I'd agree with that AA. The performance is in them, they just need to find it. The forwards in particular need to step up a lot.
Ireland won't beat France - Italy exposed the lack of creativity. They managed only 16 points from that much territory and possession against Italy. Too few line-breaks. Too few turnovers. Heaslip can be fantastic but he seems to be back into his "I have space, but, no, I must find an opposition forward to run into" mode. The only thing they've done very well is the line-out but even that hasn't been tested. Murray's kicking too much too (not blaming him for that, I assume he's being told to).
Thing is France will not be bullied up front and after that and high kicks ireland have shown nothing.
BlindMelon - Member
Irish press reporting Healy, Toner and Payne to start against France. Tough on Iain Henderson, Mc Grath and Earls as they have all been in good form.
Glad Payne's fit, but It's going to be a 23 man game so Henderson and McGrath will still play a big part. They've proved themselves international class players.
It'll be tight, but it's good to be going into it ahead of them with 2 draws in the last 4 games. WC France are ten times the team in the six nations but might not need to beat them, dd. 😉
IMO, Ireland have looked a carrier short in the pack whenever Toner and Mcgrath have been in the same side.
At least one of Healy or Henderson is always needed, really. But Toner's almost unique in the way he makes the lineout and maul tick, and that could be crucial 'cos they won't dominate the French scrum. So with Healy back as a carrier, they can afford to have Toner's strengths start too and use Henderson later on, maybe even for POC or POM if it's needed.
Not bothered about Earls missing really, he's done brilliant ,against smaller teams, but the players picked are big game and defend better. He's improved his defence no end, but his technique still makes him liable to knock himself out in big tackles. horses for course here
Feel more for Zebo (better game all round imo) 'cos he's spent his last few games proving he could do a job at full back whereas if he'd had a chance on the LW, he might just have nailed a starting spot
Ireland won't beat France - Italy exposed the lack of creativity
Well maybe but a lack of creativity didn't prevent you from winning the 6N did it?
The thing is - since the 6N has either side played a meaningful game? A bunch of half-arsed warm up games and a scrappy win over a poor Italy apiece?
France were dire in the 6N and easy wins over Canada and Romania have done nothing to change that impression. THey may yet beat Ireland but going on form, consistency, personnel and coaching nous you'd have to make Ireland clear favourites.
I'd argue that even the 6N wouldn't count as "meaningful games" for France these days. They really don't seem to give a ****. Even more so in WC year.
NotHeinekan cup wins is a better measure of the state of French rugby outside of World Cups. And that's not even as meaningful to them as their own league tables.
They all care far more about club rugby than these "friendlies" they play every spring.
They peak nationally every 4 years without fail for the WC where they come together for a decent period of time and really go for it. otherwise, they don't really do meaningful internationals much these days, maybe depending on who's touring in the autumn.
It makes any arguments about [i]form[/i] and [i]consistency[/i] as a national side pretty pointless really.
The old "what France side will turn up?" line is bollox now. They always turn up for World cups, and don't bother their arses outside of them.
[i]Personnel[/i] wise, front row (all 6 of them), back row, centres, and wide they'd challenge to be in any world team. And the rest - they'd still probably want to keep what they've got over most other offerings.
Ask a French if any English player would make their squad and they might consider Steffon and maybe Manu from 2 years ago, Any more?
So [i]"coaching nous"[/i]? - Whoever wins will have got their tictacs right - Joe's good, but PSA knows his onions too.
Both know that the six nations results meant nothing for this game.
OH, and [i]lack of creativity[/i]...
"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
All good points until you said
PSA knows his onions too.
Does he? Not so sure.
France didn't really turn up for the last RWC either. Shambolic in the group. Mutiny against Lievremont then followed by a 20 minute purple patch which allowed them to defeat a useless England. A fortunate win over 14 man Wales and then, unbelievably a great performance against a choking ABs side which should have brought them victory. They "turned up" for the final, no doubt, but that was it.
Heinekan cup wins is a better measure of the state of French rugby outside of World Cups
Toulon have won the last 3 but how many French players did they feature? It measures the state of the Top14 but not necessarily how many good French players there are. Even then you can put 15 great French players together in one team and they can still play shit.
I'd love to see France play like we all know they have the capacity to but I'm not holding my breath. 😉
PS
"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
Yes, very true and Ireland have been hinting they've been keeping something up their sleeves which I sincerely hope is the case because I don't want to watch them kickingitintheairandrunningafterit for 80 minutes again - even though they do it extremely well.
If the rugby world cup site is right Earls is in at 13 for Ireland and Payne isn't even on the bench. Must be injury to Payne
Nice one aa!
Haha great vid!!!!
Friday night, let's turn the rugby on.................
NZ v Tonga. Oh, yawn. These schedules are really crap.
Its due to the football isnt it.
No idea, I don't follow football. Who's on?
Ben Smith tackle there....legs above the horizontal.
That's a one week ban, isn't it?
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/21/dominiko-waqaniburotu-fiji-ban-australia-jonny-may-england ]Well, it was for Waqaniburotu[/url]
#doublestandards
England v somone or other on itv 1
And then, after a yellow card, three straight penalties at the scrum. For anyone else, that would have been under the posts.
Did Lacey bottle it? Tonga are getting the shitty end of things here. Shit refereeing. NZ should really have had another yellow, and a penalty try there.
#CFH, thing is, I agree with the commentators - it wasn't dangerous. No intent, nobody hurt, just a collision.
Lacey is such a cowardly ref. That last passage of play should have been a penlty try to Tonga and arguably another AB in the bin but he couldn't do it. 👿
Has someone been ploughing in the tatties?
That so should have been penalty try to finish first half.
it wasn't dangerous
Nor was the Fijian tackle on May, though. Precedent set.
Lacey is such a cowardly ref. That last passage of play should have been a penlty try to Tonga and arguably another AB in the bin but he couldn't do it.
I'd wager my left testicle he'd have given a penalty try and another yellow if it had been at the other end of the pitch, though.
Oh look, an international centre who converted over from League just scored. 😆
It must be so depressing when playing against the ABs and they start making replacements - they're normally taking off arguably the best player in the world in his position and replacing him with the reason it's arguable...
That's the definition of a yellow card for a tip tackle.
What's the current ruling on forward passes btw? There was one in the Waikato v Hawkes Bay game this morning that travelled about 5m forward but was ruled ok because his hands moved backwards. (It was an excellent game though.)
What's the current ruling on forward passes btw? There was one in the Waikato v Hawkes Bay game this morning that travelled about 5m forward but was ruled ok because his hands moved backwards.
aka New Zealand Flat.
😉
IMO, ball should go backwards. Nothing to do with the hands, it's always been the movement of the ball.
I think that's pretty much it - so long as the direction of pass (as defined by hand position on release) is backwards then it's ok even if it's traveled forward over the ground due to a player running at full pace when it was passed.
There's a youtube vid that explains it more clearly...
Yeah, seen the video etc but I thought it had been changed to 'ball actually has to go backwards..' Or flat!
If you're running at full tilt, lift the ball over the back of your head, and drop it then it will travel forward. It's the direction of the hands that matters.
Many refs still get fooled when the passing player is tackled just after he passes the ball.
IMO, ball should go backwards. Nothing to do with the hands, it's always been the movement of the ball.
Flashy, valuable as your opinion is, the IRB disagree...
There's a more modern one somewhere.
Well, that's just it, isn't it? It's my opinion. I'm not the IRB. Therefore, we may not agree on everything. 🙂
Lacey was awful in that game. Awful.
Here's the newer one.
Think the ABs still have issues.
Their scrum was poor again and they still handled poorly (for them). I've never seen Kieran Read drop so many balls as he has in this RWC.
I think Naholo was a poor selection. Electric though he was in Super Rugby he only played 50 minutes on his debut against Argentina where all he did was drop the ball a couple of times then get injured. His leg was magically healed by Fijian leaves or normal recovery time (depending which version you believe) and he;s been rushed back and is now dropping the ball again despite a superb try against Georgia.
With another inexperienced wing in Milner-Skudder (who's playing well) they might have taken Piutau, Jane or Dagg for a safer pair of hands and a cool head.
Lacey is always awful. I've had to endure many Ospreys games with him as ref...
Did NZ start their Haka before the end of the Tongan Sipi Tau? Is that a lack of respect, or an acceptable response?
If the latter, then surely anyone else can do whatever they want during the Haka! 🙂
Matt Dawson may agree with you flashy...
IMO, ball should go backwards. Nothing to do with the hands, it's always been the movement of the ball.
Yeah, but when you are as slow as you obviously are, the point is moot.
Forward passes - I'm with Flashy. The IRB are wrong - what do they know? I can remember plays in 5 Nations games being called forwards because although the player tried to pass backwards their momentum took it forward - ie Flashy is correct.
If you're running forward at 10 m/s you have to throw the ball with a backwards velocity of 10 m/s to even get it to stay still. Given the fact that most players line up at an angle of 10 to 20 degrees then the speed they would have to throw the ball in order to even make it stay lin line would be...
Anyone got a scientific calculator?
The answer is, faster than any human being is capable of throwing a ball. Players would need to slow down drastically or line up much closer to each other and much deeper so that the passing player is throwing the ball almost straight backwards.
It is not possible to make the ball travel backwards when running with any kind of pace.
Rowntree and Farrell are banned for the Uruguay game, ha, you've got to love it 🙂
Unless you are English and support that sorry shower.
63.9 m/s
I couldn't sleep without working it out.
It's as long as the ball goes backwards out of the hands is it not? Think of it like throwing something out of the window of a fast moving car - you mgiht throw it backwards, but it's still going to go forwards.
Apologies to all the Celtic contributors (whose teams are still in the RWC) but I was looking at England's position in the pool A table.
They have 6pts and Wales have 13. Now, if England had just had the slightest chance to possibly snatch a draw in the dying minutes against Wales then they would have 8pts and Wales 11. That would have meant that if England put 50 odd points on Uruguay and picked up 5pts to move to 13 then Wales would've had to beat Australia to qualify. Even a draw or losing with 2 bonus pts wouldn't be enough as they'd be tied and it would go to points difference.
Who'd have thought it?
I'm guessing "stute" probably must have been a word at some point in the history of the English language because "astute" would have developed to mean the opposite of stute.
With that in mind, you might describe Chris-nice-but-dim Robshaw as extremely "stute". 😉
Indeed. Even at the time I was thinking through the permutations and couldn't see why England would gamble on a win when an extra point for a draw would have put them in a very strong position in the group still (even more so as they were cruising to bonus point wins in the "easy games" where Aus and Wales were faltering).
There's one permutation England fans don't seem to be thinking- if they lose the they can finish 4th and would have to qualify for the next WC
There's one permutation England fans don't seem to be thinking- if they lose the they can finish 4th and would have to qualify for the next WC
We can't - Fiji are below us in the table and have no more games to play.
yeah but in reality they blew it, and are out!
C'mon all the home nations this weekend!
@dd I see you are following the @aa school of public pessimism. Ireland should best France, whoever wins this game tomorrow has a great chance of going to the final. Both teams will be well aware of that. Toulon's notHenekin ( 🙂 ) wins have been primarily due to the contribution of their non-French players, JW, Giteau etc. Drew Mitchell is another beneficiary of the rule change too. Michelak has been third choice 10 for Toulon for a while and if Cirpriani is going there it's further evidence of how the coaches feel about him, the games I've seen him play for Toulon he's been terrible.
@aa Sale director of rugby says you can buy England Uraguay tickets online for £2.50 :)) I'll not be bothering to watch the game but probably wouldn't have watched anyway even if we where going to the QFs. Wales v Australia should be a good game to watch. I thought Genia was excellent when he came on.