I think there are several reasons why their sales could have suffered but everybody's needs differ.
When I was looking around 2019/20 the Stage 6 I test rode was brilliant. Light, lively, nimble and really well balanced. They were one of the first to balance longer reaches with proper length chainstays.
On the flip side, they've since gone too far imo making overly long bikes that are too speed focussed and lack some of the qualities I liked.
They also seem to have been playing catch-up on useful features like the bottle mounts (important for me like many others) and bike storage. Coming late to market with something really quite.ugly and of unnecessary complexity that would have been better served by a second set of mounts and made to measure storage bag.
Still somewhat regret not getting that Stage 6 though.
Here's hoping they are able to continue operating, I think the sport would be poorer for their absence.
If they have such a large amount of bikes in-stock its no wonder their cash-flow is hammered, must be an absolutely huge amount of cash stuck in those bikes in motors, forks, drivetrain etc.
Covid supply chain issues removed the strength of a company like Orange in that they should be quite lean with minimal fully built bikes in stock as they can make frames essentially on-demand, it looks like Cotic also got bitten by this one.
If Orange go back to being more Orange of old, (More simple range, less stock carried) they surely have a future.
Therein lies the problem.
A £6200 bike with Sram SX shifters - straight out of a Kinder Surprise!
Just looked at the Five Evo S - it's nearly a £4k (full price) bike with SX.
Will there be frames ?
This looks more like the price they should've been all along: https://startfitness.co.uk/collections/orange/products/orange-switch-7-pro-moutain-bike-2023-orange
Cheap but no warranty potentially. Tough call
by the way Orange's website has been down now for 2 weeks... anyone got an update ? i made an order the day before the site shutdown and it arrived fine but i wonder how long their site can remain down and if they can come back ?
DickBarton
Full Member
Is the warranty not with the place you bought it? If so, surely they’d be doing the warranty…if Orange goes completely then there could be an issue…
It's added hassle though. Buy a bike and have no idea what'll happen if it cracks in 18months time - not ideal. I'm sure* Start would try and look after you, but you could be stuck with something you don't want.
*never had any dealings with them, but never seen gripes either
There does seem to actually be much stock at start fitness. Add a bike to your cart and then try to add more, it'll tell you that you have all 1 or 2 of them already.
These days bearings are much better so lots of them is less of an issue
What? The sort of bearings that you use in bikes haven't changed significantly in decades.
Always a sad state of affairs if you buy things based on a warranty as you are buying something you are expecting to fail…if that is the case, buy something that is more reliable.
You're not buying a £30 kettle, but thousands of pounds worth of bike. I'd want a warranty. And with the best will in the world Start Fitness won't be setting up a warehouse full of Orange spare parts 'just in case'.
Always a sad state of affairs if you buy things based on a warranty as you are buying something you are expecting to fail…if that is the case, buy something that is more reliable.
That's not an argument - even "reliable" things come with a warranty; it's basic consumer law.
What? The sort of bearings that you use in bikes haven’t changed significantly in decades.
Some FS bikes have really good sealing these days.
But by no means all.
mert
Free MemberWhat? The sort of bearings that you use in bikes haven’t changed significantly in decades.
True but most brands have moved away from stupid tiny ones, and sealing/protection has seemed to improve pretty much across the board. DEATH TO 608 BEARINGS. But, I even remember stuff like manufacturers fitting single sided seals "to reduce drag", absolute bloody madness.
I'm not sure if this is a "bikes getting better" or "bikes getting bigger and more capable so you don't generally have to make a song and dance about 2 grams or 3 watts any more".
I'd be wanting a warranty as well, and as I've asked above, you would have one buy buying from Start...would you not?
If something went wrong then it would be you and Start that the warranty claim goes through - either Start goes to Orange or something else if Orange isn't around. So I think it is odd people are saying there won't be a warranty, I think there will be.
I'm all for warranties, they make a lot of sense, but unless you are buying direct from Orange, then you will have a warranty if they go pop (or until the warranty expires) - should you not?
So bearings have changed not one iota.
Idiots sourcing and speccing the bearings have actually done it properly.
True but most brands have moved away from stupid tiny ones,
You've never seen an XDR freehub. The outer bearing size is constrained by being small enough to fit inside a 10 sp sprocket and wide enough to fit over a 12mm through axle, 2.2 mm bearings IIRC. I regularly have mine collapsing on me on all my road bikes, am now very adept at swapping bearings in 'non-servicable' free hubs!
I’d be wanting a warranty as well, and as I’ve asked above, you would have one buy buying from Start…would you not?
Would you though, if Orange go under? You'd be covered by the CRA, but how do you expect them to honour something offered by an entity that no longer exists?
We were talking about frame bearings which don't have such constraints.
But is it not just the same as the XD, a 6802? I've got on fine with my xd freehubs, it's not weight bearing after all and it's reasonably shielded behind the endcap
but how do you expect them to honour something offered by an entity that no longer exists?
they could honour it, but you might find that man’s getting offered an equivalent from another brand that you might not want
Selling up shop! That does mean that warranty is now good will only for what it's worth. Hopefully they find a buyer.
Not trading whilst in administration. I don't have a good understanding of the process but that makes the situation sound at the poorer end of bad, sad reading.
Sad they couldn't restructure and continue.
Hopefully a sympathetic and enthusiastic buyer will be found, but it's a bit of an unusual setup with the factory sort-of separate.
Who might consider stepping in? Hope perhaps?
Does seem like they aren't going to just sell off some stuff and get back on top of it.
Unless there is an employee buyout or something similar my guess is this is going to be dumping all of the existing stock to companies that specialise in liquidations to pay debts then selling the Orange name to the highest bidder.
I think there will be an "Orange" in the future but it won't be anything related to the current Orange.
Really selfish but I sort of hope the remaining frame stock turns up for good prices on ebay or something so that owners (myself included) can pick up spares as the 5 year warranty isn't good for much anymore.
selling the Orange name to the highest bidder.
I've always been a bit puzzled about that, as the trademark seems to be owned by the phone company. I can remember Michael Bonney telling me something about it, but I can't remember what.
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00908656464
I thought it was ok to have the same trademark as long as products/services didn't overlap? So - Apple Music/Apple Computers (though that went a bit weird) and Pact Coffee /Pact Bikes?
I'm sure it's all legit! I think there was some legal agreement about their right to use them.
But it's fascinating* that the Orange Phone people have actually got the Orange bike logos registered to them, rather than Orange Mountainbikes/Bairstows.
*Not that fascinating.
I’ve always been a bit puzzled about that, as the trademark seems to be owned by the phone company.
Orange bikes would have a trademark for the word orange with their colour, style etc within the business of
selling bikes and Orange phones would have their own trademark but for the business of selling phones.
I don't think anyone would buy the Orange brand and suddenly use it to market a phone company.. but you never know.
A few people on some of the Facebook groups reckon they had had some positive sounding messages from some of the staff on tech or customer support emails hinting that there was, at least, some sort of plan in place.
Fingers crossed there is something being planned behind closed doors.
The spectre of Ashley looms!
Orange bikes would have a trademark for the word orange with their colour, style etc within the business of
selling bikes
You would think so, but the only TM I can find they own is STRANGE
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1313494&domain=1
I don’t think anyone would buy the Orange brand and suddenly use it to market a phone company.. but you never know.
orange telco. probably bought them from Orange bike co. then licensed it back to them for a £1 in order to tidy up the IP surrounding the Orange name.
Websites back.
statement from Orange on pb.
We're still here and our customer service team are still at Orange to take any calls or enquiries from the public or dealers and they have been doing so since we entered administration. There's good news on the horizon and hopefully we'll be able to update everyone soon. We appreciate everyone's support throughout this process and we're looking forward to getting back to normal ASAP.
Panic over!
Thanks for sticking with us!
After restructuring of the business and its associated companies we are pleased to announce that Orange Bikes is set to continue under Ash Ball.
What does this mean?
In simple terms, we’ve strengthened our position to make us more stable, we have plans to move the entire team to its own bespoke location – from welding to marketing and everything in between we will be under one roof for the first time in our history.
Panic over!
Yep just got an email from orange.
Good news
Great news and by the sounds of things, they are going bigger so surely better.
Great news. Crack open a beer...
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/orange-p7-gets-the-mx-treatment-and-updates-for-29-and-275-frames.html
18 new SKUs for a relatively niche hardtail - three wheel size variants, most available in four sizes and some in two colours. They're not learning, are they?
What awful product publicity shots at the start of that article! Are they ashamed of it? Looks like they used the under stairs cupboard as the photo studio.
Also full 27.5 feels mad in this day & age - I think Cotic's approach on the BFe is more sensible with the double decker dropout for MX curious riders.
Also full 27.5 feels mad in this day & age - I think Cotic's approach on the BFe is more sensible with the double decker dropout for MX curious riders.
My next bike will be 27.5.
I was planning on getting a Marino custom build but if a P7 does the job then that makes more sense.
But I'm a bit weird...
Never owned an orange but I remember a week after buying my rock hopper I went to glentress. My mate didn't have a bike so hired an orange 6. I had a shot, drove home, sold the rock hopper the same day, and bought myself a heckler (I couldn't afford an orange)
The looks never really appealed, but that orange 6 was a phenomenal bike and is pretty much entirely to blame for me spending many thousands of pounds since on bike kit..
Glad they will keep going.
DJI motors? Like the one they attached last year?
I saw the p7 on Facebook this morning. I've added the 27.5 and mx frame to my geometry table. The 29 missed out as the colour wasn't working for me.
The photos on the website aren't selling it though
18 new SKUs for a relatively niche hardtail - three wheel size variants, most available in four sizes and some in two colours. They're not learning, are they?
depends how they do it
paint them and assemble in the UK then potentially sensible. Its 2 lots of forks and 2 lots of wheels, all other components interchangeable.
this sort of midrange hardtail seems like (with good brand recognition and acceptable geometry) an exercise in being an efficient component reseller.
however having a warehouse full of, as you say, 18 SKUs assembled in taiwan and waiting a year before you get back any money for them with half of them being 50% off next autumn.... less sensible.
^ just looked at the PB article and seems they are selling frame only. so ignore what I just wrote.