Not as boutique as SC
Santa Cruz aren't in any way other than their marketed image boutique. They're mass produced in the Far East by a huge conglomerate.
A dealer network isn’t something that most consumers on this forum value.
It is and it isn't.
I think the days of walking into a bike shop and being able to get (eg) a new BB are long gone. There are hundreds of BB variants now so the chances of the shop having the exact parts are slim to none and shops can't afford to be stocking everything because they have neither the space nor the cash.
It's even the same with a basic consumable like brake pads.
I really value my LBS, they're brilliant mechanics and I take most of my bikes to them for even fairly basic stuff now because they have all the tools, space and resources to do a good job. They can even service almost everything on my Canyon and I know that if I need a specific part, it's one email or web order (and about 2 days) away so I don't really *need* a dealer network.
And even if Canyon had a dealer network, the same principle applies - it's unlikely that a bricks and mortar shop could hold in stock every version of every specific part or bearing from every Canyon model.
And that definitely applies to Orange who seem (to me and several other people on this thread) to have an excess of models and options and that requires a similar excess of parts, spares and accessories.
we should all get together and start our own bike company.
I think the name Sick! might be available.
Yeah, but other than Whyte, Specialized, Surly, Genesis, Kona, Van Nicholas, Santa Cruz and Ibis, who else was way ahead of the curve by offering a gravel bike in 2014?
Kinesis had the Tripster in 2012, I've still got the one that @somafunk convinced me to buy with that tripster thread of theirs.
OK, but other than Whyte, Specialized, Surly, Genesis, Kona, Van Nicholas, Santa Cruz, Ibis and Kinesis, who else was way ahead of the curve by offering a gravel bike in 2014?
Edit: and Marin
Doesn't really surprise me, you hardly ever see folk riding an Orange where once they were commonplace. They've not really innovated and are expensive compared to the opposition. A real shame but I hope they can be saved.
There has been a lot of comparison between Orange and Canyon. I like the “new bike day” feeling when very occasionally I get a new bike. Last year I was lucky enough to get a new full suspension bike, my first one since 2010. I travelled 80 miles each way to the shop, where I had had excellent service with (very) knowledgeable staff. The shop are Orange stockists, however I came out with another brand, because I preferred it. Equally I could have bought the Orange but didn’t. Price wasn’t the only factor, it was more about the bike feeling!
With my road bike, I also valued service and travelled a long way to find a suitable shop. A friend bought a Canyon, same group set, similar price, however he subsequently changed cassette, chain and mech to get his preferred ratios. In addition while the wheels were great quality they weren’t the ideal section for UK roads, so again we’re changed. The Canyon ended up being considerably more expensive than my equivalent shop bought bike, where they could advice on what works for the individual. Unfortunately because society wants Canyon more than a proper bike shop service, this service is dwindling.
I have aP7 from 2017 ish, and it is great, I always wanted to pair it with a five or stage, but unfortunately that doesn’t look likely now.
I hope the staff are looked after.
Username doesn’t entirely check out
, who else was way ahead of the curve by offering a gravel bike in 2014?
Edit: and Marin
There was another Yorkshire based company offering a do-it-all road/cross/gravel bike back then (and now), and they had until recently, possibly a more mental line-up... until administration and a buy-out last year. You know who it is, everyone loves them!
OK, but other than Whyte, Specialized, Surly, Genesis, Kona, Van Nicholas, Santa Cruz, Ibis and Kinesis, who else was way ahead of the curve by offering a gravel bike in 2014?
Edit: and Marin
Even Pinnacle had a gravel bike in 2014.
Talking of the wide range of bikes - looking back at my copy of the 2000 price list, we had a choice of-
Hardtails: Gringo (starting at £499.95 for rigid), P7 steel, EvO2, EvO2 limited ed, P7 pro, E4 pro, E4 XTR'a (£2099.95)
Dirt/jump hardtails: AirO (£889.95), Msisle, Msisle Pro (£1449.95)
Full sus: Patriot (£1399.95), Sub 5, MrXC, Sub5 pro, MrXC pro, Patriot Pro, MrO pro (£1999.95), Sub 5 Xtr'a, MrXC Xtr'a
Long travel special editions: Patriot LT, Patriot Millenium, MrO DH (£3499.95)
point being they had 7 different hardtails in various configs and 4 full sus bikes, so perhaps the slightly confusing lineup has been a thing in their DNA for a while. Prices really jumped from 2000 to 2001, the Sub 5 pro went from £1599 to £2100, not sure if that was down to parts rises or capitalising on the popularity of the bikes
my mrXC xtra (the first mrXC, and I think the first front-triangle-with-a-swingarm bike they ever sold) was £2799 from memory, in 1999, which was in line with other top-end bikes at the time (everything seemed to max out around £3k). Its still going strong as a kiddy carrier(!) Thats about £5200 today, which wouldn't get you an equivilent model any more (the XT based 5 evo is about a grand more).
I wonder if the "million models" thing is based on how they make them - they can probably pop out a batch of 3 or 4 frames at the same rate as a batch of 50 - so why not something to everyone if they're built to order? The stage evo alone has 28 colour/size options, so there's no way they're keeping that lot in stock. It might even be that some parts (ie front triangle) are shared across multiple bikes and only things like the shock mounting on the rear swingarm changes
Even Pinnacle had a gravel bike in 2014.
Yeah, but the designer was a man of rare genius
I suspect many people on here have daydreamed about running a small bike company…
All I need to do is start with a large bike company!
2014 gravel bikes, pfffft singular had the 29er drop bar gryphon in 2009, just goes to show again, its always the smaller niche boys that do the interesting stuff and the boring vanilla mainstream catch up eventually 😂
See also, fat bikes, 29ers, 29+ etc....
Does every thread on here turn into a debate on the origin of gravel bikes if it runs long enough?
Weren’t folk riding their bikes on gravel tracks and in the woods back in the 60s, before bikes were invented, or something like that?
I'm just going to jump to the end and say Kirkpatrick MacMillan.
Kirkpatrick MacMillan was the first to make an ebike.
Oh, and no one was the first to do Gravel Bikes because Gravel Bikes aren't real.
Like birds.
who else was way ahead of the curve by offering a gravel bike in 2014?
...back in the early 80's I rode my 10 speed racer - fitted with cow-horn handlebars - around the local woods and footpaths! 🙂
Does every thread on here turn into a debate on the origin of gravel bikes if it runs long enough?
Or it becomes an discussion about Israel and gets closed down.
Have you seen bikeperfect having a dig at this thread/ article.
"To make the sting even worse, Singletrack magazine stated (on a now deleted thread on their forum) that this was the first time most of the workforce knew about it"
Who/what is bikeperfect?
BikePerfect is part of Future US Inc, an international media group and leading digital publisher.
Copied from their web page.
bikeperfect.com
Article written by Guy Kesteven.
Without trawling back through the thread, has the post in question been deleted?
If yes, would anyone at STW care to explain why - and why did they not double-check before posting?
Guy Kesteven, conveniently ignoring it was Carlton Kirby who broke the news, first, on Forbes…
And the thread hasn’t been deleted, only closed.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-bikes-to-appoint-administrators/
Who/what is bikeperfect?
A quick peek since I've never heard of it before either seems that its yet another bike "news" website.
Article written by Guy Kesteven.
Since they seem to be reading this then you'd kind of hope that such a well thought of bike journo may have done a little more research before regurgitating something off a forum 😀 I got sent a link to the Forbes story before anything appeared on STW.
So why not contact bikeperfect/Guy Kesteven pointing out their error and ask for comment and/or retraction?
Guy Kesteven, conveniently ignoring it was Carlton Kirby who broke the news, first, on Forbes…
Yep, I read Mark's comment with the STW story as having a subtext of "Carlton is a bit of a tool".
Because he does seem a bit of one.
Having read it, it looks like he mentions Forbes. Not having a go at STW
Shortly after the news that Orange Factory Racing – once home to internet favorite Joe Barnes – was not surviving into 2024, worse news broke last weekend when Forbes reported that the firm was going into administration. To make the sting even worse, Singletrack magazine stated (on a now deleted thread on their forum) that this was the first time most of the workforce knew about it.
Except Stw stated that they held off on publishing the news as long as possible so that employees wouldn't hear about the issues 2nd hand, so sounds like a drama queen.
Nice piece by Alex at Bikeradar: Orange Bikes helped shape my MTB story – and I'm far from alone - BikeRadar
Weren’t folk riding their bikes on gravel tracks and in the woods back in the 60s, before bikes were invented, or something like that?
As the bike was invented well before tarmac I think we can assume it started with gravel
@tomhoward I read what you posted and understood the context, shame nobody else has bothered.
Guy wasn't having a pop at anyone on here or STW.
Read it again.
back in the early 80’s I rode my 10 speed racer – fitted with cow-horn handlebars – around the local woods and footpaths!
if you’d left the drop bars on you’d have invented gravel bikes!
