@krypton57
it's a 27.5er - had already emailed him!
@benp1 because if I pick up one with a slightly more relaxed geo, it will do for normal riding as well. I just want a lockout and light weight for racing. I'm willing to compromise on slightly slower front end handling.
What's the non-sponsored answer, you big hipster?
I'd be happy with open mould. It'd get light bicycle wheels. That carbonda quotes 2kg+shock +/- 50g unpainted tho so that probably nixes a Vitus then.
Maybe this is just a stealth ‘i want a new spark’
Me too, however even my lbs owner says I can’t have one!!!
The unavailability of very expensive bikes is proving to be a bit of a blessing in disguise right now. Aside from not being able to spend large amounts of cash on what is effectively a bit of a 'toy', I'm also spared the agonising over X, Y or Z, plus the inevitable Buyer's Remorse after; 'should I have bought Y instead of X?'
Spark and Epic are the frontrunners still, though.
Steve_b77 -how are you finding an open mold full suss. I’ve had an icann hardtail frame for years and its been great… but tempted by a xc open mold full suss
How have the bearings held up etc.. is it stiff enough? I mean for an xc bike…
I have a bigger bike for more silly riding and was tempted by a scott full suspension.. but could not justify the cost for the few races i do a year… but it may be cheaper as a physio may not be required
I don't have an open mould frame, I ride a KTM Scarp Prime
because if I pick up one with a slightly more relaxed geo, it will do for normal riding as well. I just want a lockout and light weight for racing. I’m willing to compromise on slightly slower front end handling
downcountry then?
Izzo
Synonym
Epic Evo
Spur?
I have swapped back and forth from fs to HT over the years and can't say it's made that much difference at all. Bikes I have liked riding and suited me have had a bigger influence over results (obviously fitness greater still!). And this is from XCO style races all the way to 10 hour races.
On the whole I prefer a HT and on the whole, I think they are a little slower than FS but I would say if you enjoy riding the HT I wouldn't swap it just for a some racing, at most people's level it will make little to no difference. Even at world cup level there are riders who will choose an HT due to preference where an FS would generally considered better for the course or vice versa.
Depending on budget, I seriously be considering a Transition Spur, although good luck finding one
The TR version of the Orbea Oiz has more travel and another degree off the head angle (at 68). There are other trailed up versions of XC bikes that might work well like a Spark
Ah - sorry,
I saw a few of them at the glentress 7 last month... they look very tidy
Interesting thread this. I was on my hardtail at the Vittoria Marathon last Sunday (bloody hard work) and whilst my full sus (Scott Genius) isn't really suitable for that type of thing, I'd have loved to be on something like a Spark.
A couple of years ago I did timed laps at the Brighton Big Dog on two very different bikes, just out of curiosity to see the difference in times. So on a near 40 minute lap (I'm not that quick), with lots of roots and short punchy climbs, my 11kg carbon 29er Hardtail was less than a minute quicker than when I was on my 14kg fat bike (Canyon Dude).
The fat bike rolls over stuff incredibly well (tyres are at 8psi) so I'd expect a short travel full sus to be similar.
The fat bike rolls over stuff incredibly well (tyres are at 8psi) so I’d expect a short travel full sus to be similar.
Having ridden both short travel XC FS and fat bikes they are completely different. Fat bike tyres are un-damped so they bounce around a lot, and even low pressure tyres are a lot less progressive than suspension. And offer far less travel. Short travel XC these days is 100mm.
Lots of reccomendations for a downcountry bike with 130mm travel (I mean, isn't this just a trail bike?). Sure a YT izzo, or a spur is a great bike, but at nearly 30lbs stock it would probably be a downgrade from a fast racing hardtail.
An epic Evo would be light enough, but without remote lockable suspension. I always thought it was a gimmick, but I probably hit the lock on my sid twenty times a lap on my last race?
Lots of reccomendations for a downcountry bike with 130mm travel (I mean, isn’t this just a trail bike?). Sure a YT izzo, or a spur is a great bike, but at nearly 30lbs stock it would probably be a downgrade from a fast racing hardtail.
On rough techy stuff it's faster for me. Even on long flat rough terrain where I'd have to keep standing on an hardtail or rigid the trail bike is faster. But I'm a very light rider so really notice the extra weight. It's like carrying an extra leg around.
A mate has a spur. No way is it 30lb. More like 25. Sids, carbon wotnots etc. It's only a slight frame weight increase over a pure xc bike and whatever tyres away from xc light.
Tricky one.
It’s very, very course dependent.
Sundays Vittoria Marathon would have been very doable on a HT. On the other hand the Gorrick Breakouts on a super twisty & very bumpy course might be better on a FS.
If I had 2 XC race bikes (I’ve only one – an Intense Sniper) the FS would get used more than the HT. But HT definitely has its place..
We must race the same areas! It was racing the Gorrick at Area 51 that really made me wish I was on a short travel FS rather than my 8 year old On-One HT. I'd been hankering after one for a while and this was the final straw. Just felt I couldn't pedal where I wanted and was picking and choosing whereas anyone on a Scott Spark just p1ssed past me seated. Or maybe that's just because I am old and slow. Possibly a bit of both.
We went back into lockdown so the itch went away but then came back again in the Spring. After much deliberation I actually went for the 120mm Intense Sniper (weighs 26lbs fully built) and raced it for the first time at the Vittoria Marathon on Sunday. It was awesome. I don't think I would have been quicker on my HT despite being a muddy slog in places and fire roads/grass climbs in others. I even used the dropper for the berms and step downs. I left it in the middle setting on the shock. Provided just enough cushion and felt efficient to pedal.
I may revert to the HT for mid winter slop fest races but I had so much fun and felt notably less beaten up over the 4 hours that I was riding.
Anyway... where was I? Oh yeah... I am currently a convert to short travel FS for when I tape a number to the bars.
Sponsored riders have to ride what the sponsor tells them and this thread seems to indicate that it’s having the effect that the sponsors are aiming at.
Quite a few WC riders use both their sponsors HT and FS with the choice on the day depending on the course.
I used to have a Scott Scale and Spark with pretty much identical set ups for racing. The Scale was probably my favourite, ridiculously light and stiff, absolutely flew up hill. For a 24 hour race eg MM, I'd pick the Spark as it's less intense riding it, although I think I've raced both over 24 hours.
We must race the same areas!
🤣 there’s a few here who do - Kryton is one & I think AA is another..
After much deliberation I actually went for the 120mm Intense Sniper (weighs 26lbs fully built) and raced it for the first time at the Vittoria Marathon on Sunday. It was awesome. I don’t think I would have been quicker on my HT despite being a muddy slog in places and fire roads/grass climbs in others. I even used the dropper for the berms and step downs. I left it in the middle setting on the shock. Provided just enough cushion and felt efficient to pedal.
This is getting spooky - I’ve a Sniper XC…are you me or am I you?!
Pretty much go along with what you say there. The nice thing about the Sniper is it’s super capable descending yet can still be light enough to climb respectably..
Currently have a Boardman mht 8.9 that I bought with some hunt xc wheels due to lack of proper xc options. Done a handfull of races but also Cwmcarn and Snowdonia on it.
Looking at my options to replace it as I feel it's too cumbersome for xc but not long enough for the trail centre stuff. Most of my racing is the Army xc series where I come top 30-50%. In civvie races I'm tail end of the sport cat and get lapped by the winners.
Options are:
-full sus xc bike and a steel 130mm plus hardtail for trail riding and winter. Those Chinese carbon FS frames look ideal and could probably strip my bike for the bits needed. Second hand cotic for winter and trail parks.
-hardtail xc bike and a mid travel fs for trail parks. Current whippet GX offer has caught my eye but would fit a better fork and my xc wheels. Something like an aether or secondhand whyte t130 style bike for trail days. Would have to use the xc over winter though.
No idea and change my mind daily. Fancy the FS for racing and plan on doing more marathon races butabwouldnalsonbe handy for trails... Not sure a do it all bike exists on my budget and availability.
We must race the same areas!
🤣 there’s a few here who do – Kryton is one & I think AA is another..
Racing is a quite grand title for what I do!!
This is getting spooky – I’ve a Sniper XC…are you me or am I you?!
next you're gonna tell me that you have the grey and red one!
I swapped from a Scott Scale to a Giant Anthem and was faster. More grip, more comfort and less fatigue are what I put it down to.
Nowadays I race on a Trek hardtail. If racing were my main aim I would be on a full suspension bike but now, while I'm still racing to get on the podium, I only do a few races a year. My Trek is my winter hardtail and I put some light wheels and a different bar and stem on it to race.
I just can't justify buying a very expensive new bike for what is effectively 18 hours of riding a year, and for what? A medal? It's not like there are cash prizes for UK XC races so unless you want a full suspension bike to enhance your day to day riding too I'd save the cash and stick with the hardtail. And if you're not racing to get in the medals there's even less point in splashing out.
next you’re gonna tell me that you have the grey and red one!
Uhmmmm…
🤣
no mention of foam inserts for tyres assuming you are running tubeless.
my 700 38mm gravel bike tyres are like riding on carpet offroad now..
run at 30 psi. rode the local xc a few times last week, and uphil even on cobbles it takes the vibrations out.
just done a tarmac loop and its no slower than before, added 110 grams
rimpac..
18psi front, 20 rear, no requirement for foam inserts with the courses I was racing. It isn't technical as in ullock pike from skiddaw, it's just lumpy.
The sniper xc is a workable solution as it's available frame only for not a stupid price, but I wish it had a remote rear lockout cabled in.
Things like an izzo and a spur will be close to 30lbs unless you hang syncros Silverton SL wheels and trickstuff piccolas etc off it - I'm up for xtr and light bicycle but not £3k for a wheelset.
18psi front, 20 rear, no requirement for foam inserts with the courses I was racing.
+1.
The sniper xc is a workable solution as it’s available frame only for not a stupid price, but I wish it had a remote rear lockout cabled in.
Its not perfect I'll admit but the only time you'd want is on fireroad or similar - anything else its fine. I tend to leave mine in the middle setting.
Couple of reviews I’ve read have said stock XO Spur is about 25lbs, so it’s not as heavy as you think?
I'm pretty much universally quicker on a FS (Trek Top Fuel), although a properly rigid remote lockout is an absolute essential for me. Being on the heavier side I don't notice any weight difference too much, and it more than pays off by being able to sit and plough through things.
I've recently had some shock issues that have meant I've been racing my winter frame, an X-Caliber. I've chucked all the stuff from my Top Fuel on it so it's a near enough direct comparison between the two, and it's so much slower. Most notably different are trails like supernova or telegraph in the Surrey Hills: where I'd normally be able to sprint I was getting properly rattled. On really steep or techy things there's actually less of a difference, as I feel more limited by the (saddle up) position, brakes and tyres.
The only real situation in which I prefer the HT is horrendous sticky mud, like at the last national round at Monmouth. More than half of the course was running anyway, and a FS would have just meant more stuff for mud to stick to.
