[Closed] Why does mtbing alienate women & to what extent does this hold back the sport?

Interesting points with a marked difference in focus from my feelings on the topic.

I do think its acceptable to both drop and be dropped and gender has nothing to do with it. This is not without limit though, as I've said, I will hang about with slower riders if it happens - I just try to avoid it happening in the first place. Similarly, I wouldn't have been happy to let you come off the hill by yourself if you had bonked/blown. Thats just irresponsible. On the last STW ride in my area, I was actually the sweeper for most of it.

For me, there is little social aspect beyond the ride and I've managed to continue riding perfectly well without turning into some kind of wilting flower that needs propping up by other people - I've never been a member of any club and have hardly ridden in groups of more than 5 - I find it too stop-starty and a bit 'coach party'. This was the same when I was a new rider too. Occasionally we have a pint afterwards, but of those I ride with, we'd all actually rather ride for longer, rather than talk about it over a pint.

Although I've never been interested in them, surely clubs are the prime entry point for beginners? Most of those I've seen seem to cater for all abilities, or so they claim. Personally, I have no interest coaching people. I get a buzz out of riding, being outdoors and a sense of personal achievement on terrain that ones not sure one can get a bike over.

If I became ill, slower or less fit, I'd not expect any of the guys to ride slower just for my sake - why should they? They're riding for their own objectives and reasons, not mine. I would expect to help myself by finding a slower group of riders, or ride solo. I've done both before.

I have a suspicion that we're not going to reach consensus on this particular topic. We seem to be opposite faces of the coin. 😯 😉

double post. Sorry. 😳

As an example a few years ago I had post viral fatigue - I didn't know at that point as it hadn't diagnosed, but the people who I was riding with knew that I'd been ill. we got half way roudn the ride, high in the mountains and I couldn't keep up any more. They left me to find my own way down, whilst they went off on the rest of the ride.

Shocking behaviour on any level!

I've had CFS twice now (kinda getting over it right now too), its a total shit cos often you feel perfectly ok and then suddenly it can just stop proceedings dead. Leaving someone in the mountains on their own though... I've had people try to insist i left then to their own devices when it was clear they were holding me up, it doesn't matter, I can go ona faster ride another day, people's safety is paramount!

Scienceofficer - no I suspect that we're not going to see eye to eye on this, but in a way that's kind of OK - the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed (of course, it would obviously be better if you agreed with me!). Good on you though for having a reasonable debate, and I can see what you're saying. I was going to say that I would have preferred it if you hadn't been quite so patronising (and if you met me I suspect 'wilting flower' might be the last phrase you'd use!), but given that I was somewhat rude and said 'your attitude sucks' I suspect I can't really complain 🙂

mboy - yup PVS / CFS is a tough one - glad that I'm over it now but it did take a really long time. A lot of 'friends' faded away when I had it cos I could no longer get out at the same level, but interesting some of the best riders I know stayed in touch and we'd head off on rides together - I guess that's the difference between 'friends who ride' and 'not-friends who ride' 🙂

I wasn't referring to you when I said 'wilting flower' I meant it as a generic term to describe a certain type of person. Apologies if you though it was aimed at you.

There are plenty who think my attitude sucks, but this is the internet and I'm a big boy now.

Odly I was thinking about this in a different context last night. On the way back home from work I saw loads of women out running on the streets. However when I go for a run on the moors around the same area you dont see a single woman, but you do see other men...

whats it all about ??

one of the frequent comments I hear from women is that they don't go out with local clubs becuase they are worried about holding them up / being too slow / ruining someone's ride

That's definitely not something just limited to women.

Round here women probably have it easier as there is a women-only club that's very supportive of new riders and quite prepared to put on all sorts of rides to make sure there is something for everyone. They also do quite a lot of skills training sessions etc. At the weekend they managed to get 9 members to compete in a ladies-only triathlon, most of them (including my wife) beginners.

However when I go for a run on the moors around the same area you dont see a single woman, but you do see other men...

whats it all about ??

I got back into cycling in early 20s, cycling with college friends on quiet country lanes. Started seeing someone who was into off road cycling, and bought my first MTB. I loved going off road, but after splitting up with him, it took me years to feel confident enough to go off road on my own. What if my bike broke? What if there was a bonkers man with an axe hiding in the woods? Gradually started to go off road on my own because I love going XC, although being in the middle of nowhere on my own still freaked me out. Now I love it, quite happily go for miles and miles in the countryside alone and did the SDW solo last year. I also run off road. So, it's a confidence thing I think, for me anyway. Having enough confidence to be away from civilisation and know you're still going to be ok.

My missus is happy on the moors. It's the parks that are a bit rapey I think.

[b]Sue_W[/b]
Scienceofficer and GW - thanks for reminding me of why I generally don't particulary like the mtb'ing world any more, and why I do more mountaineering / climbing etc where such attitudes don't exist (yes, people in those activities want to push themselves to their limits at beyond, but they're also keen to encourage and help others, and would never, ever leave anyone behind in the mountains - in fact that would be considered to be not only selfish but utterly incompetent behaviour).

MTBing as a Sport is only a tiny part of "The MTBing world" and "The "MTBing world" you have issues with is seems to be one I've never been a part of. 😕
Other than competitions/events I don't see MTBing as a sport
I only watch any Sport to be impressed by the skills (not fitness) of the participants. (oh.. and the crashes of course 😉 ) for this reason I don't watch much women's sport.

[b]mboy[/b]

I thought we'd already established that on the whole, most of us are partaking in mountain biking not as s sport, but as a pastime, or hobby if you will
Competition doesn't come into it for the vast majority of us, except for with ourselves. I'll push myself to go faster over a bit of trail than before (sometimes, not all the time certainly) but couldn't care less how I shape up compared to anyone else?

I wasn't talking about it as a pasttime or hobby, only a Sport

As for women's sport being a sideshow... I don't care about the sex of the individuals competing, but of their ability to impress or entertain me when I'm watching sport. Men are always going to have an edge, it's in our physiology, but in every sport I've watched with wowen competing in recently I haven't failed to be impressed. The number of girls lapping ridiculously quickly at Mayhem the other weekend was impressive.

I on the other hand wouldn't want to watch something as dull as Mountain Mayhem and find women's MTB competition so mindnumbingly boring and unstylish I can't even bear to watch them ride at WC level (and I'm a huge fan of DH/4X), it's painful watching the fastest girls in the world case jumps that are not all that hard to clear or worse still, not even jump them. IMO Joey Gough is the only girl worth watching race in MTB competition just now (and she doesn't even race MTB full time).

I watched a days play of the ladies Ashes cricket last summer (sadly I was one of only about 20 people there watching!), both teams were seriously good. And I don't mean "good for girls", but the level of cricket being played was excellent to watch. And then there's women's football. Now I'm no football fan, cos the game has been spoilt by money, corruption, and overpaid halfwits putting on a song and dance all the time. Watching the pro females playing it is quite refreshing, they don't dive around half as much, they focus much more on the skills used and as such I think it's a better game to watch.

And then there's tennis. Ok it's impressive watching the guys bang a few 140mph serves in, but often the girls have much longer rallies.

WTF? The only sport the thread title mentions is MTB, I couldn't care less what other sports you watch or what gender the participants are.

I'm amazed Cricket is still even considered a Sport? 😛