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The roadies turn up saying road riding takes skill, but can’t dispute it’s bottom of the list.
What?! I'm no roadie - I'd never ride on tarmac again if I had my way.
XC racer Helen Grobert was recently banned for 4 Years.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/german-xc-racer-helen-grobert-banned-for-4-years-for-failed-doping-test.html
BMX. The bikes are the sketchiest and street riding looks horribly high consequence stuff. Not a lot of helmet/pad use either. And top level flatland BMX is the most mind-blowing bike thing I've ever seen.
The skill is being able to do it at a reasonable pace (I have no issues with trials being regarded as a sport requiring great skills)
No. That's Fitness.
Try going down a twisty mountain descent at speed with no skills.
No. That’s Fitness
No. The fitness may enable you to go fast, the skill enables you to stay upright, be in the right place in a bunch, get round the hairpin, whatever.
All those skills DHers use, line choice, when to apply power, feeling grip through the tyres, etc. all done with 20 fellas 6 inches from you on 25mm tyres.
Anyone who can cycle backwards balancing on one wheel with somebody else standing on their shoulders wins the skills competition. I think Kilo nails it. If you didn't watch the video, you should.
After than, I'd agree with trials, those are skills I'll never achieve (see also jumping). Bunch riding road skills are largely subconscious faith in other riders. You tend to notice those without the skills rather than those with them.
All those skills roadies use, line choice, when to apply power, feeling grip through the tyres, etc. all done with massive ****ing jagged pointy rocks and big ****ing jumps and drops.
It is rough on an MTB, hence they go slower. What, 30mph tops in a DH race? Double that in a road race.
So yes, it’s rougher on the MTB but you’re going half the speed.
Hitting 40mph plus with 40 other riders (a few less in track) just inches away is just about fitness??
It's not that hard. Watch the wheel in front and to the sides, don't brake, don't overlap wheels.
I don't think road racing is that skillful judging by the quality of some of the descending on display in the grand tours. And it's not just because it's hard - some riders are brilliant descenders, they just show up the ones you aren't. Yet they are still on GT courses. I could descend those mountains like that if I wasn't worried about coming off, which I am. They are fearless, I'll give them that.
Conversely, if I had no fear I could descend a WC DH course a lot quicker than I would in real life, but I'd never get close to the pros. You watch the YouTube vids and due to the perspective you think 'yeah that's quick but whatever' and then they go through some section like it's had frames removed from the vid and you think 'holy shit!'
As for cornering on the limit - I doubt DS are asking them to do that. You gain or keep time on descents by going really fast on the open sections. You might save a few tenths on corners by being on the edge of grip, but it's not worth it for the risks involved. No-one loses a big mountain stage by tenths, or even seconds, and even the close ones are decided on the final climbs after they've all re-grouped after the descents anyway.
DHers though do lose races by tenths, so they need to absoutely nail every corner.
All those skills roadies use, line choice, when to apply power, feeling grip through the tyres, etc. all done with massive * jagged pointy rocks and big * jumps and drops.
..with a lot of tyre and suspension tech to help cope with those irregularities. Plus the roadies ride hills on sight in a layer of lycra Vs the downhiller's practiced runs in a full face and protective gear.
Either way, the consequences of getting speed and line into a big drop wrong, compared to a hairpin at speed with a big drop to the outside.. I don't see a lot of difference. You build up to both.
I'm not saying one is more skilled than another, technical handling skill in DH is certainly huge, just that it might be harder to appreciate just how good, how fast, some pro road riders really are downhill. DH is more obvious in its ability to impress.
All those skills roadies use, line choice, when to apply power, feeling grip through the tyres, etc. all done with massive * jagged pointy rocks and big * jumps and drops.
135km/h on 25mm tyres with only lycra and a crash hat for comfort.
https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/rider-tour-de-suisse-hit-top-speeds-exceeding-130-kph/
Rampage and DH.
Road ridings easy, loads of folk round here do it. 😂
Flatland bmx all day long
I think the definition of "skill" that some people are using seems to be a bit narrow.
On road, time trialling is generally a straightforward test of aerobic ability (but not totally devoid of skill). Road racing, however, demands a whole suite of skills that are not required in some other cycling disciplines because you are racing directly against other people, not just a course or a clock.
Peter Sagan is a good example of someone with an impressive range of physical and mental skills. He won the World Champs three times in a row. That's the biggest one day race in cycling, and he was the winner three times, racing a huge bunch of the best cyclists in the world. He didn't manage that just because he was fitter than everyone else.
Look at Cavendish executing wins from the chaos of a huge sprinting bunch repeatedly in his prime. There's a lot more to that than fast twitch muscles and good bike handling skills. If you've heard him talking about this, he has a detailed knowledge of the finishing kms of a race, and he is combining this with instantaneous tactical assessments of where his rivals are and what they are doing, and wrapping it all up to get over that line first, again and again.
Peter Sagan is a good example of someone with an impressive range of physical and mental skills. He won the World Champs three times in a row. That’s the biggest one day race in cycling, and he was the winner three times, racing a huge bunch of the best cyclists in the world. He didn’t manage that just because he was fitter than everyone else.
How did he do in the Olympic MTB race?
How did he do in the Olympic MTB race?
Sagan punctured and failed to get anywhere near the medals. There's a report on the race here where you can read more details:
Another vote for flatland bmx. Insane amount of skill. All other disciplines are a mixture of fitness, power and guts!
I could descend those mountains like that if I wasn’t worried about coming off
No you couldn't
Sagan punctured and failed to get anywhere near the medals.
He had done pretty well in the 2008 World Juniors though before moving to the road.
Sagan punctured and failed to get anywhere near the medals. There’s a report on the race here where you can read more details:
I know. A rider with more skills might not have punctured... 😉
A rider with more skills might not have punctured…
That's your evidence that a three time World Champion lacks cycling skills?
If we are talking about disciplines that we have actually ridden (forget about pro's for the minute) i personally would put them in this order of how hard i found them
BMX & Trials bikes, lots of skill involved, especially Flatland, that takes years of dedication and practice, a friend is a World Champ and his dedication and skill still amazes me
DH & Enduro both need good amounts of skill, knowing how to handle the bike when things go wrong, judging the terrain and the speed needed to clear certain obstacles like jumps and drops
XC, not much skill needed, if you can ride a bike then most people can ride XC, you may not be the fastest or best but if you can ride a bike across some hills and fields then that is essentially XC
Road bike, no real skill needed, anyone who can ride a bike can ride a road bike, yes more skill is needed to descend fast and corner at speed but anyone can just ride one
Another way to look at it is the harder something is the less people tend to do it, lots of roadies, XC riders out there, not too many BMX, Trials or DH MTB'ers in comparison
Having grown up riding BMX's for 35 years now Ive found it has given me the skills to pretty much ride any of the above at a good level
If were talking about pros then look at how many pro riders out there grew up on BMX's or still even ride them today as the skills are transferable
I think anyone riding in any cycling discipline at the top level has to have an enviable skill set. I would love to be as fit as a Tour roadie, or a WC XC rider, and I'd love the frankly alien bike handling skill of a BMXer or WC DH rider.
I do agree with Molgrips though, trying to compare the descending abilities of GT riders with WCDH riders is a bit daft. I think pretty much any of the top 20 DH riders would be front and centre of any road pack coming off a big col. I doubt the reverse would be true. Having said that, I'd imagine that the DH riders would be spat out the back of the peloton on the way up anyway...
BMX is to MTB what track is to road.
Is where you learn the basic skills to make you a better rider when you make the step.
All 4 disciplines are hugely skilled, that some involve greater levels of fitness shouldn’t diminish the skill levels. Don’t forget that the top BMX racers are super fit as well, they’re just build for 30 second races and not 300km stages.
Flatland and trials are different beasts as they are so technical. At the other end, time trials also demand skill, it’s just not as obvious.
I also think people here have a somewhat old fashioned view of XC, it’s not riding round a field any more, the course are hard and made harder by the fact that your on the limit too.
This is the most ****ish thread on the internet.
. I think pretty much any of the top 20 DH riders would be front and centre of any road pack coming off a big col.
Given the different skillset required to survive in a road bunch, unless they are experienced road racers, I'd be surprised if they lasted beyond the first hour of the race.
This is the most ****ish thread on the internet.
Is not even the most ****tish thread on this forum unfortunately.
I'm a confirmed roadie now (well, zwiftie at the moment) and road racing at a high level takes a lot of skill - but I'd still put it second to bottom of the list, just above gravel.
Cavendish said somewhere that all his fast mates he rode with at home wouldn't survive the neutral zone of a world tour race, let alone a bunch finish.
Just riding on the road, even in mountains doesn't take much skill. You can learn to corner reasonably well over the course of a week with some instruction - there's technique, line and confidence to learn.
Skill wise I'm an average XCer but I'd crash very very quickly on anything vaguely downhill-ish. Trials? Well, I'm good at trackstanding but that's it.
Trials/BMX flatland stuff at the top.
Is not even the most **** thread on this forum unfortunately.
😀 😀 😀
Trying to rank different disciplines by skill level is a mug's game. Every one of the cycling disciplines that has been discussed requires different skills, and the riders who are successful in those disciplines will have a better set of those skills than ordinary riders.
This is the most ****ish thread on the internet.
I think it just demonstrates that some people are commenting on disciplines where they don't have much knowledge of the skills that are actually involved.
What cycling disciplines takes the most skill
Maintenance.
This is the most ****ish thread on the internet.
Oh do bore off. It's just a bit of fun. It's like sitting round a table in the pub and trying to work out the worst goalie mistake, or which GP driver would make it to the first corner in a 450 motocross race, or whether 3 dolphins could take on a killer whale, or the worst line in a war film.
No one thinks this shit is important. It's just passing the time until we can go outside again without the neighbours grassing us up for breaking isolation rules.
The dude who's going to treat us to a 35ft unicycle display with flames BGT surely has a shout.
No one thinks this shit is important. It’s just passing the time until we can go outside again without the neighbours grassing us up for breaking isolation rules.
Nail on the head.
whether 3 dolphins could take on a killer whale
Narwhal vs walrus is where it is at.
Why not ask yourself which event could you ride in. Make the skill bit relate to what you can do yourself.
Having seen a few WC DH races I can say I couldnt even walk those courses. Some of the WC XC course at La Bress I actually tired to ride when the event was over, some bits I was unable to do.
I can imagine just about mincing down an EWS course (missing out the big jumps), but not riding it fast, blind.
Road riding - anyone who can ride a bike can ride any course, sure not fast, but you could ride it fine.
I’d be surprised if they lasted beyond the first hour of the race.
Indeed, what odds would you give me on Chris Froome making it down Hardline?
I reckon BMX would be at the top every time. Countless hours every day entirely concentrated on refining that skill.
Trials, jump, etc, close siblings. But you could argue BMX encompasses both to some degree anyway.
Downhill obviously requires a lot of skill, but I think as long as you're comfortable and have the ability to relax in the face of imminent danger you're halfway there. And on a purely technical level, it's not necessarily any more skilful than XC, Enduro, or anything else.
Roadies always get all defensive about this kind of thing.
No-one's saying it takes NO skill to road race, just not as much as the other disciplines.
eg. Splashing through puddles on a kid's bike.
When it comes to road I think you really have to look at the definition of skill and work it out from there. Is fitness a skill? Is effective communication with other riders a skill? Plenty of stuff involved, but not easily quantifiable because you're comparing apples and oranges.
It's like comparing Formula 1 to Monster Trucks.
It’s like comparing Formula 1 to Monster Trucks.
Or combining monkeys and tennis.
Now that gives me an idea....
If road takes so much skill why are so many effing useless off road? It's not hard descending a road bike. Even with people about. It takes some control but nowhere near as much as say DH.
If you're thinking skill then at its core is actually controlling the movement of a bicycle. In which case it's hard to over look bmx. Front flip to nose manual to flair sort of thing? that takes control to another level.
If road takes so much skill why are so many effing useless off road? It’s not hard descending a road bike. Even with people about. It takes some control but nowhere near as much as say DH.
If you’re thinking skill then at its core is actually controlling the movement of a bicycle.
Huge technical skill in DH, but you're racing a clock, so pretty much zero skill required in terms of racing other competitors.
In a road race, how do you hold your position in a fluid and continually moving bunch? If someone else attacks, do you chase or not? If you're going to attack, where's the best place to do that, and how do the weather, route, road conditions and the other competitors affect that? What's your overall race strategy, and how do you handle the constantly changing tactical demands within the race? In a break, how do you build a cohesive group and drive it, but retain enough of an advantage to make a winning move yourself? If you're not the fastest person in the race, what tricks can you play to make other people work harder, or make them think you're stronger than you really are?
That's a wee taste of some of the skills involved in road racing, but I'd say there's a lot more skill involved in almost every cycling discipline than just "controlling the movement of a bicycle".
If you’re thinking skill then at its core is actually controlling the movement of a bicycle. In which case it’s hard to over look bmx. Front flip to nose manual to flair sort of thing? that takes control to another level.
Yeah but that's gymnastics or circus skills, not cycling.
Huge technical skill in DH, but you’re racing a clock, so pretty much zero skill required in terms of racing other competitors.
In a road race, how do you hold your position in a fluid and continually moving bunch? If someone else attacks, do you chase or not? If you’re going to attack, where’s the best place to do that, and how do the weather, route, road conditions and the other competitors affect that? What’s your overall race strategy, and how do you handle the constantly changing tactical demands within the race? In a break, how do you build a cohesive group and drive it, but retain enough of an advantage to make a winning move yourself? If you’re not the fastest person in the race, what tricks can you play to make other people work harder, or make them think you’re stronger than you really are?
That’s a wee taste of some of the skills involved in road racing, but I’d say there’s a lot more skill involved in almost every cycling discipline than just “controlling the movement of a bicycle”.
You're using 'skill' as an example to race, not ride a road bike. The amount of people who race, compared to those who ride (in pretty much any discipline, is probably less than 1%).
The skill level required to ride a road bike, on the road, is minimal. The skill to ride a DH bike, on a DH track, significantly higher.