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I do think people forget that roadies are also from other disciplines as well. We don’t just pick up a road bike and ignore all other cycling. The vast majority of roadies I know are all very competent mountain bikers. Not international class obviously, but still handy enough. Some race XC others Enduro.
It’s like saying what takes the most skill, rugby or football. They are different sports that just happen to use a ball. Doesn’t mean they are comparable.
Nowadays I mainly ride road, fitness has always been important to me, but I still enjoy getting out on the mountain bike. I’ve raced crits, road races, XC and CX. Road racing is probably the easiest to come to terms with quickly. A lot of people on here are happy to ride black downhill but may have never been in a fast moving peloton doing 30mph inches away from the handlebars of the next rider and the wheel in front. It takes time to learn how to ride safely in a fast group while you are above threshold (and I don’t mean a club run on a Sunday with your mates).
I’d say that at the amateur level most roadies have decent bike handling skills, because as I mentioned earlier, we tend to do lots of different disciplines throughout our lives.
I’ve never done trials or BMX so can’t really comment, but looks even further removed from what I consider cycling. Probably similar to saying what is harder, dressage or the grand national?
if you can ride a bike across some hills and fields then that is essentially XC
What the actual f?
NO-ONE rides around fields, this hasn't happened since the 90s if it ever did.
XC race courses are loads of tight twisty singletrack, generally. Stop imagining yourself as a rufty tufty cool 'trail' rider and all these XC mincers trundling around a field (that's Cyclocross).
What people call 'trail', that's XC.
I do think people forget that roadies are also from other disciplines as well. We don’t just pick up a road bike and ignore all other cycling
It doesn't matter what other riding they do. They use less skill road racing than they would riding dh. Or splashing through puddles.
Or splashing through puddles.
Bloody tough, that...
It doesn’t matter what other riding they do. They use less skill road racing than they would riding dh. Or splashing through puddles.
Yep, put cycling pjs on, get on big full susser, ride for five minutes, maybe pedal, picking a line, drink a red bull. Tbf that’s a bit more skilful than xc which is trundling around a field.
Tbf that’s a bit more skilful than xc which is trundling around a field.
which in turn is a lot more skillful than roadie, which is essentially going for a jolly cruise in the countryside being towed along by your mates...
You've broken down the bigger wheeled disciplines but are still calling BMX just BMX which is crazy, some have called out flatland but you have race, dirt jumping, street riding, park riding and vert riding and some of these now over lap with park/ramp tricks being done on the streets.
For me, flatland is the most skilled discipline, most of the others require large kahunas but not much skill.
BMX is to MTB what track is to road.
Is where you learn the basic skills to make you a better rider when you make the step
I dont agree with this statement that BMX is the building step for MTB, there are lots and lots of MTB'ers who couldnt make the step to any of the BMX disciplines listed above! The only real steps they share is learning to ride a bike regardless of wheel sizes!
. I’ve raced crits, road races, XC and CX. Road racing is probably the easiest to come to terms with quickly.
Done similar but with track and tt as well, I found xc the easiest to come to terms with quickly - obviously apart from tt’ing and being very unfit.
which in turn is a lot more skillful than roadie, which is essentially going for a jolly cruise in the countryside being towed along by your mates…
Takes a lot of a skill to sit on a wheel and avoid taking any turns at the front;)
I love watching the big road races, tours etc, the tactics are fascinating as is the judgement & timing of when to attack or let people go and the bravery and skill of riders who can attack on the descents is something else. But most roadies are saying one of the biggest skills required is riding close to a other riders in a large group at high speed? So for 99.45% of road riders that's not required which leaves you riding tarmac on your own or maybe a couple of others. That certainly drops the skill required to participate way off the bottom of the list yes?
I think it would be accurate to say that 99.45% of the stw mountain biking holds no relation to dh or xc racing or the skill for them either so they’re down the bottom as well, just below road and cx;)
A solo mountainbike ride for me includes mud, roots, stream crossings jumps, drops & severe climbs littered with rocks & ruts.
A solo or group road ride on tarmac just does not compare. Simple?
Totally agree about flatland BMX, only been to one Cycle Show and found the flatland utterly mesmerising. Trials probably up there in terms of difficulty IMO.
I think I'd apply a kind of crash test dummy approach. DH I think with limited competence and a lot of luck you could make it down. XC / Enduro / Whatever, think pretty much the same. Freeride, I think there's less chance of survival, so I'm going:
1. Trials.
2. Freeride.
3. Flatland.
I'd like to see a RedBull TV series on multi discipline cycling.
As much as I hate to admit it, road riding generally doesn't take much skill, other than perhaps in a race within a group.
I use to be a semi competent mountain biker, could get down most stuff. Didn't go on the mtb for 2 years and by the time I returned all my skills had deserted me, I could barely stay upright on very basic trails.
DH
As above, some of the routes present a serious challenge just walking up them, let along hurtling down, where a lack of skill can be seriously dangerous. Hence red/black.
A solo mountainbike ride for me includes mud, roots, stream crossings jumps, drops & severe climbs littered with rocks & ruts.
A solo or group road ride on tarmac just does not compare. Simple?
Ah, I assumed "What cycling disciplines take the most skill" meant an open discussion of the different skills involved in the various cycling disciplines. I didn't realise that 7) Road was restricted to going for a pootle on tarmac.
DH I think with limited competence and a lot of luck you could make it down.
This tells me you've never seen a full blown DH course!
Maybe we're coming at this the wrong way: rather that start with the pro's, start with the novice. Trials and BMX for the win?
DH 1st then Enduro 4th have you ever seen the speed a pro-Enduro racer goes downhill, bearing in mind a fair few are ex DH'ers. Watching them a couple of years ago in Whistler was eye-opening at the speeds they go at.
Same as pro XC racers, flat out for over an hour and the modern xc course will often have jumps and drops.
If I had 6 months free to dedicate to any discipline, a coach, and unlimited time to practice within that 6 months this is how I reckon I'd get on..
Road riding..assuming I had the fitness I reckon I would be able to ride in the tour de France peloton after 6 months, or compete in a road crit (assuming race craft doesn't count as 'skills', as obviously those can take years to learn)
Mtb...I could probably get to a standard where I can ride down most stuff. But in 6 months could I get down fort bill in 4 min...not a chance in hell. I'd be lucky to break 10.
Dirt jumps...the obvious answer to this is I'd still be terrible after 6 months
BMX- likewise the same as dirt jumping...it would be a disaster
Mtb…I could probably get to a standard where I can ride down most stuff. But in 6 months could I get down fort bill in 4 min…not a chance in hell. I’d be lucky to break 10.
Takes the elite men 4 and a half...
Road riding..assuming I had the fitness I reckon I would be able to ride in the tour de France peloton after 6 months....
Yes, the Cavendish quote relayed above where he said the fast boys he rides with in the uk wouldn’t make it to the end of the neutralised section at the start of a stage might suggest otherwise.
I don't know how anyone can say that road riding or racing requires more skill than dh, enduro or bmx (any of it's sub genres). On a pure bike handling skills basis it makes no sense.
Take the top 20 ranked pros of each one and let them have a go at each other's discipline. I would be willing to bet my own money on pro dh'ers and enduro riders fairing a lot better at road racing than the roadies racing an EWS stage or Val Di Sole dh.
If I had 6 months free to dedicate to any discipline
Good way to look at it although I think you could dirt jump fairly well after 6 months. BMX takes a lot of practice and even as a fearless teenager I rode for 8 years and was obsessed with it but still not as good as a lot of people I see these days.
Take the top 20 ranked pros of each one and let them have a go at each other’s discipline. I would be willing to bet my own money on pro dh’ers and enduro riders fairing a lot better at road racing than the roadies racing an EWS stage or Val Di Sole dh.
And even if the DHers didn't do very well on the road, it would be down to a lack of fitness rather than a lack of skill.
The hulk would win TdF. Potentially make it down hardline by virtue of his indestructibility. But wouldn't be able to bunny hop.
"This tells me you’ve never seen a full blown DH course!"
Have ridden down a couple in the Alps. Granted, this was a decade ago so I'd imagine the level of tech has only gone up since. Around the same time I was watching locals doing trials. So my shady, purely personal comparison holds in my eyes. I required little in the way of skills to make it down the DH course, mostly it was rollable. Every move I was watching on the trials front involved using a skillset I didn't have.
"Take the top 20 ranked pros of each one and let them have a go at each other’s discipline. I would be willing to bet my own money on pro dh’ers and enduro riders fairing a lot better at road racing than the roadies racing an EWS stage or Val Di Sole dh."
Dunno about that, reckon a roadie could walk down a DH course quicker than a DHer could walk up a col. Still reckon it should be done tho, like a cycling Battle Royale.
I don’t know how anyone can say that road riding or racing requires more skill than dh, enduro or bmx (any of it’s sub genres).
Different disciplines, different skills, so the concept of comparing "more skilful" and "less skillful" by discipline doesn't make much sense.
On a pure bike handling skills basis it makes no sense.
Why would you only use "bike handling" as a measure of skill? Are you suggesting that DH, Enduro and BMX (mass start excepted) don't require the additional skills necessary to actually compete hand-to-hand against other riders?
Road riding..assuming I had the fitness I reckon I would be able to ride in the tour de France peloton after 6 months, or compete in a road crit (assuming race craft doesn’t count as ‘skills’, as obviously those can take years to learn)
You think racecraft can take years to learn, but wouldn't count it as a skill?
One of the ones I can't do because of lack of skill, I reckon. Jumping my shortcoming is balls (I do have most of the skills, I just don't use 'em much), climbing my shortcoming is fitness and laziness... So I'm going with trials.
(also, I've never seen a trials rider that couldn't turn their hand to the other things)
(also, I’ve never seen a trials rider that couldn’t turn their hand to the other things)
This, the best (non pro) riders I’ve ridden with are the ones that started out riding trials. Even after a looong time out of riding, as soon as they pick up a bike again, they’re up to speed, figuratively and literally.
Maybe this fella would know the answers
(also, I’ve never seen a trials rider that couldn’t turn their hand to the other things)
Trials riders have phenomenal core strength and "fitness" in a sort of weight lifting description. They might not be able to ride 100 miles in a road race bunch but in terms of that ability to actively recover (while balancing/bouncing) then redline again and repeat, it's pretty amazing. The best technical XC riders I've seen have all come from trials and/or BMX.
Dez, Brumotti vid isn't bad but my personal skillset would be all over that segment at 1:18.
Yes, the Cavendish quote relayed above where he said the fast boys he rides with in the uk wouldn’t make it to the end of the neutralised section at the start of a stage might suggest otherwise.
But that's clearly nonsense, although I'd love to hear someone try to justify it. I'm pretty sure that riding in the neutralized zone of a professional peloton is no harder than a cat 4 road race, namely because, whilst no faster, the people around you know what they are doing.
Either way, can't believe anyone is trying to make out road riding requires more skill than BMX, dh etc..and I say that as a roadie.
My intuitive answer is trials and park or flatland BMX.
DH is a very specific application of bike handling skill, enduro and XC are on the same spectrum but with endurance more of a factor.
Plenty of skill in road racing, obviously, but fitness is the deciding factor much more so than in DH, for example.
Note: For me, skill means the application of physical inputs to a bicycle. Not strategy or tactics.
Dez, Brumotti vid isn’t bad but my personal skillset would be all over that segment at 1:18.
I'm impressed. About 10 seconds for me.
But that’s clearly nonsense, although I’d love to hear someone try to justify it. I’m pretty sure that riding in the neutralized zone of a professional peloton is no harder than a cat 4 road race, namely because, whilst no faster, the people around you know what they are doing.
Yeah but they're also all fighting and jostling for position, trying to move up, trying to drop back to the team car, trying to stay with their leader, calling on the radio... "neutralised" is a misnomer.
Either way, can’t believe anyone is trying to make out road riding requires more skill than BMX, dh etc..and I say that as a roadie.
It's completely different skillset though. Less physical, much more mental. Need to know where your main opponents are, who they have left as team-mates, the terrain, an idea of how the race will pan out and the tactics to use, the ability to judge an attack - is it going to stick, is it some tactical call-my-bluff etc - knowing when to use your own attack, reading the road, judging your own physical condition...
In a 3rd Cat race you can pretty much dispense with a lot of that but it still takes a season to learn the ropes, work out where to sit in a bunch, how to stay there, how and when to move up, when to attack - just that the whole tactical game is much less nuanced.
Bike handling does come into it - if you're losing 5 bike lengths on every corner because you can't ride properly you'll burn all your physical matches and not win. It's just much less apparent and obvious than a more physical sport like DH or BMX.
I don't dispute the skill in road bike handling crazy legs, but it seems to me that the pros all have that base level of skill and it's usually the strongest rider who wins.
Whereas in DH they mostly have a base level of fitness and it's skill and clean technical execution which wins the race.
The answer to most skilled could well be ultra endurance cyclists. (The self supported ones.)
They do far more than just ride a bike so must have more skills.
During an event bmx and downhill riders don't have to worry about navigation, logistics, nutrition, fixing mechanicals against the clock, extreme sleep deprivation (which reduces the percentage of the cyclists total skill available for immediate use), sleep management, blister treatment, selecting the best hedge or ditch to bivvy in etc.
Isnt DH just pointing a bike in the right direction, having some balls and holding on? Not trying to troll, but maybe exaggerating to make my point. It looks extreme so looks like it involves a lot of skill, but I think its more about having the balls to do it.
Isnt DH just pointing a bike in the right direction, having some balls and holding on?
Of course, in the same way that road racing is mostly sitting in a bunch barely turning the pedals at 100W wondering what's in the bag at the next feed station. I'd imagine if you're not a sprinter on a flat stage, a domestic probably can't believe he gets paid to bimble across the countryside with his mates.
I haven't read every post but there seems to me to be a fair bit of confusing skill and bottle as well as comparing apples to oranges.
I would say trials / BMX flatland, whatever the gymnastics on a bike are called is the most skillfull - but requires little bottle.
I do not think road riding requires a huge amount of skill - but by 'eck some bottle required! I mean I have climbed and alpine pass and descended it at 60 mph. Not that hard ( of course the climb was a LOT slower). Doing it in a bunch - i simply do not have the bottle to do so
Isnt DH just pointing a bike in the right direction, having some balls and holding on? Not trying to troll, but maybe exaggerating to make my point. It looks extreme so looks like it involves a lot of skill, but I think its more about having the balls to do it.
You can DH by having a little skill and no fear. You can also do it by having a lot of skill and some fear. But to be the best you need amazing skills and also no fear.
Bike handling does come into it – if you’re losing 5 bike lengths on every corner because you can’t ride properly you’ll burn all your physical matches and not win. It’s just much less apparent and obvious than a more physical sport like DH or BMX.
I think that in road biking you need a basic minimum skill to not lose 5 bike lengths every corner, and handle the bunch; once you can do that then it's a game of fitness and tactics.
DH is purely about skill once you have the required fitness, I reckon. You can win or lose by a few tenths of a second, so that one mistake could cost you - and it'd be a mistake most of us wouldn't even see.