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Cheers- low volume it is. I’m going to start in the next week or two. I’ll also be doing some outside rides and running
Yes I go low volume and it worked from end September to early December. I was throwing in a Zwift race on the Wednesday as well which was full on for 40minutes. 3 days most weeks midweek hard was probably too much and contributed to being tired then ill from early December.
Similar plan for this year but intending to get outside more regularly than the last few winters and maybe not doing Tuesday to Thursday full on ;0)
I've done a full cycle (sic) of the plans and stuck to Low Volume except for the Speciality which I did Mid Volume and that felt much harder especially if I was doing weekend rides as well. Remember that recovery is just as important as the workouts. I went from 240W to 266W (though I think it's a bit low and need to do another test).
Psychologically better to do the Low Volume and add workouts or rides than do the Mid Volume plans and skip workouts.
You can also elect to do workouts outside if you've terrain suited to the particular workout, you just send the data to your Garmin or Wahoo.
@whitestone - yes I used outside rides for an entire mid-vol base plan this spring when lockdown made the local roads so quiet. It was probably the best training I've ever done, but then I didnt progress to build as i didnt believe (correctly as it turns out!) there would be a cx season.
Plan now is to re-start base in low volume with the hope there will be a mountain bike season next year, or at least to keep things ticking over.
After giving Zwift and it's plans a go I realised that I much prefer TrainerRoad so I'm back on it now.
Currently three weeks in to the LV Sweetspot Plan and feel like I'm getting some benefit from it, time will tell.
The ideal set up for me seems to be TR running on the TV or laptop with Eurosport Player wathcing either the CX racing or replays of Classics.
Anyone else still using TR or has everyone moved over to Zwift?
Still on TR. I started back on it in Oct 2019 and due to breaking my collarbone last January and then lockdown I carried it on all year. Not a fan of Zwift.
I've been doing some of the workouts outside recently, surprising just how accurate my estimate via FTP was - assuming Strava's estimate of power is accurate.
I have a subscription to TR and zwift atm so am about to start a TR block using the zwift environment, see how it goes. I'm hoping not commuting by bike will make it easier to focus on the training - my aim is time-trialling later in the year.
When did TR become £20? I went to have another look at it tonight but it’s shot up in price.
I like it, a lot, but it’s either Zwift or TR for me at that price...
I'm still trickling on but barely using it. I really like it and rate it but I'm not doing anything structured at the moment so am picking a randon work-out once a week or so when I havent done any other exercise for a while.
I tink I'll start a low vol plan soon, but I'm unsure whether to spend a month doing some higher zone work as I've doen nothin but base stuff all year as i've been ticking voer wondring if/when we'll race again. I'm dubious about any mtb so guess am aiming for cx september 2021 but half the time think that is optimistic!
When did TR become £20? I went to have another look at it tonight but it’s shot up in price.
I like it, a lot, but it’s either Zwift or TR for me at that price…
Think it's pretty easy to knock up an interval program yourself in zwift so seems to only be one winner there.
I'm paying $20, so just under £15 at current exchange rates. TR have stated that they'll grandfather your subscription if you stay with them and don't stop/start from year to year. Of course that only makes sense, financial or otherwise, if you keep using it year round.
Just checked in a different browser that I've not logged in to TR with and it give the cost as 20 dollars not 20 pounds.
Sorry, you’re right. $20 a month, so in a post Brexit world about £19 😉
I'm sure it wouldnt take much to subscribe to trainerroad for x1 month and note all the workouts for your chosen plan. Depends on your ethics I suppose...
There's a reason Trainerroad won't let you export their workouts into the likes of Zwift and Trainingpeaks. These monthly subscriptions are getting a bit crazy though! Everything is a subscription service these days
That's been done a few times, in some cases not so subtly as whoever did it copied the whole workout description text verbatim!
I've heard there's a bit of bad blood between the founders of a couple of those so that integration isn't likely.
Subscription was always the way things would head once a reliable distribution channel, i.e. high speed broadband, was widespread. Why stick with the cost of boxed software and intermittent payments when you can get a steady income stream? Updates "just happen" without needing more boxes being shipped, etc. Of course for us the consumer it means we have to pick and choose what we want.
I think the TR guys must accept that their plans are widely available without people having to pay their subscription for months on end. I think they purposely make some of their workouts difficult to replicate in other software though in the hope that people won't bother and will just stick to using their software / subscription. For example a number of sweetspot workouts continuously ramp up and down between 88% - 94%. Likewise with some of their over / under workouts would be a pain to copy.
The more I think about it the more I think their main selling point is the user software / tools / app rather than the actual plans themselves. Their software and apps make the plans easy to execute hence why people stay subscribed.
There's always going to be people share/copy the TR plans, that'll never stop.
Personally I'll stick with TR as it just works. The last thing I want to be doing is messing around with setting up various apps if I don't need to, the fact that I also don't need a good internet connecton is a bonus as it's something else that can't go wrong!
Slightly unrelated, what's people's opinions on doing back to back days on the sweetspot plans? I did a 90 minute session yesterday and am due to do a 60 minute session tomorrow. Due to work I was going to do tomorrows session today then have a couple of rest days before my next session.
Good idea or bad idea??
Yes using both TR for workouts Zwift for racing and noodling around.
TR far better for tranining in my experience of both.
SSB1 in Nov/Dec 6w increase. Stuff over 3/4 weeks of Xmas 5w increase (may have waxed my chain...) Due to not doing structure and impending events pushed back going back to SSB1 again to work through SSB2 then see what Spring throws out.
Slightly unrelated, what’s people’s opinions on doing back to back days on the sweetspot plans? I did a 90 minute session yesterday and am due to do a 60 minute session tomorrow. Due to work I was going to do tomorrows session today then have a couple of rest days before my next session.
Good idea or bad idea??
I've done it fairly regularly - my work is outdoors and at this time of year it's hit and miss as to which days are dry enough to do it so I'll move the workouts around to fit in with that. I don't think I'd do VO2max workouts back to back but anything below threshold should be fine. Also on the podcasts, one of TR's coaches Jonathan Lee states he pretty much permanently does his mid-week workouts as a block.
Also TR don't just throw the workouts and plans out there and that's that. Their CEO said on one podcast that they'd 90 million completed workout logged on their system. That's a lot of data available for analysis. They do monitor how we all perform on the workouts and adjust things accordingly. The plans have certainly changed in the last few years so whereas you might have had workouts A, B & C in a week, they spotted that people were regularly failing to complete C but only when it followed A & B and not D & E so they swapped C for C-1 in that instance. They've also said they analyse when people pause workouts or back pedal to get a breather or adjust the intensity - presumably this leads to rest intervals increasing or one less effort in a block or something like that.
There have been hints/rumours of the workouts and plans becoming dynamic with some form of AI adjusting things to help you keep on track. Might just be a wind up though!
That's interesting.
I've not listened to any of the TR podcasts but I might give them a try.
What's the cheapest IT setup I can get away with?
I have a Windows 7 laptop and a compatible dumb trainer for virtual watts.
Trainerroad support seems to suggest I just need the ANT dongle with compatible sensors, it doesn't list an operating system...
Ta
ANT+ dongle
Speed sensor (ANT+)
(or you can do BT if a BT speed sensor is available)
Something that can read the ANT or Bluetooth. My old phone would run the ANT but the newer one doesn't want to. Laptop/Ipad/etc. Using a phone is suprisingly fine and makes it easier to watch a TV in the background.
I mostly run on a laptop with TR minimized to the top blocking out the top bit of Netflix.
Well ANT+ is a comms protocol and is OS agnostic, the dongle converts that signal to a form that the SW on your device can use.
A USB dongle plus cadence/speed and HR sensors should be enough. Something like this: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-ant-usb?g=0 for the dongle. Might be worth getting a dual channel BT/ANT+ heart rate monitor to cover all bases - I use this one https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-bluetooth-ant-compatible-heart-rate-monitor
Speed/cadence sensor - https://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-rpm-speed-sensor-with-bluetooth-40-and-ant
Just finished the low volume sweetspot base plan, paired up with reruns of the Classics and CX season on Eurosport Player it's been surprisingly enjoyable.
It's the first bit of training I've done in about four years so it'll be interesting to see how it's progressing when I do another ramp test on Monday.
I've been doing quite a few of the workouts outdoors - reasonable for the steady state ones but not so much for the sprint/VO2max/Anaerobic intervals. We've a lot of hills around us so it's a case of looking at the workout and picking a hill to match.
Today's workout was Mount Goode: 3x15mins at just below FTP (98% or so). With snow falling this morning I settled on the hardtail. Good choice! The problem was I'd had to wait for a new chain to arrive (TBF to Hermes they delivered in the time slot they said they would) so it was 1430 before I got going.
There was lying slush for the top part of the climb. OK on the first rep but the top 200m was frozen by the second rep and by the third I was getting wheel slip by the time I was halfway up. So I cut the last rep short by two mins - I'd still got a hill to climb to get home so some more work to compensate.
My Garmin gave a temp of -1C which was probably about right.
Well that was fun.
Six weeks of low volume sweetspot training and my ramp test showed a drop in FTP of 7w 🤣
Did Bashful+1 today. The last time I tried this workout I had to skip two of the intervals in the last set, did the next one then had to skip another, that was with an FTP 7% lower than today. In fact it was so traumatic that I skipped the next two times it was scheduled!
This time I lowered the intensity a little (2%) after the first interval in the second set. This made things much more manageable.
I did bashful +2 last night. It’s certainly not for the faint hearted is it.
I’m on general build at the moment and ftp seems to be rising nicely. Just need a race to use it all in now!
Somewhat weirdly despite the naming convention Bashful+2 is easier than Bashful+1. 90/50 work-recovery ratio rather than 60:30 plus only five efforts per set. Just wait until you get to Kaiser+2!
Just had a look at kaiser +2 ! That’s a stumble off the bike sort of a work out
Evening All.
Thought I would drop-in to say Hi as I'm aiming to start a TR plan for the second time tomorrow.
I wonder is there any consensus on what the minimum duration of a plan should ideally be?
I see that TR automatically reverts to a 12 month duration when I enter a plan start date and then I have to manually adjust the end-date to something more appropriate (though I note it doesn't prompt me to check the end-date or offer any recommendation as to what would be an ideal length of time).
I don't have any particular event or objective in mind other than I want to be fit for road riding in the Summer and maybe seeing if I can match or better some of my Strava times on local hills etc.
In my initial plan build I input 4 months duration (Feb-May) but wonder if I should really extend this?
(I'm aiming to do 3-4 sessions a week if it makes a difference)
TR's plan builder defaults to 12 months duration if you don't enter an 'A' race for it to aim for. So if you want to use Plan Builder for a "limited" time then find something like a sportive or similar event and set that as your 'A' race - or just make something up.
TR's standard progression of Base, Build and Speciality comes to 28 weeks in length (12wks Base, 8 wks Build & 8wks Speciality). Plan Builder then, for want of a better phrase, mixes and matches those to build up to whatever length of time you have for training. So if you have longer then you'll get something like: Base; Build; Base; Build; Speciality. And so on.
There's one problem with following the above progression - Speciality should really only be used for "sharpening" your fitness in anticipation of an event/race. If you aren't aiming for anything then alternating between Build and Base would be the way to go. Base is in two parts, the first is really "Turbo 101" and is just to get you up speed (sic), so the above is now Base Pt2 - Build and repeat.
It may seem a bit boring repeating workouts, even several months apart, but it does let you compare them over time - hopefully you've improved.
There are several Build programmes, just choose one that you like the look of, maybe choose a different one second time round and so on. There are also the "Enthusiast" plans which can be used as "block" HIIT training if you want to try one of those.
The other problem with TR plans long term is there's no "ebb and flow" or long term periodisation. So while there is progression in terms of effort (TSS) from week to week there's no real off-season so you need to work that out yourself.
Excellent, that is really helpful, thanks Whitestone!
I'm quite happy to repeat workouts and am fairly used to interval training in principle so sounds like Base (2) + Build is indeed the way to go then.
Although most coaches for amatuers seem to be leaning towards no real "off" season. Also as they get older it's detrimental overall as it's harder to get back what you lose. TR/Joe Friel from memory are saying this.
I usually slow down end of October(and December is always busy with other stuff) so plan for this year is to drop into the traditional base plan for a couple of months and add in some intensity with Zwift races then start on SSBase in January.
IMO don't skip SSB1 there are gains to be made from the more sweetspot work.
Depends what you have been doing. I've just finished a shorter 2nd stint in SSB1 and expect to add more watts on the next ramp test again. There was a 4 week break from "training" between them but intensity was kept up still in smaller doses racing.
Did Bashful+2 today. A bit of a struggle and had to lower the intensity by a couple of percent for the last four intervals. Still ended up with an IF of 0.96 for an hour's workout! Either Avalanche Spire + 1 or a custom VO2max workout tomorrow.
@tomlevell - I wasn't meaning off-season as in do nothing, more like an extended recovery week just to let the batteries recharge as it were. So if your weekly TSS was in the 400 range then drop to 200 for a two to three or four weeks until you are ready to go again. Looking back at my Calendar I see a period of a lot of skipped workouts last August - I'd been on a training plan for ten months at that point and I think I just needed to chill for a bit. Didn't do that much harm since the next Ramp test after I picked things up again I got a 3% improvement. All a bit of a balancing act between work and recovery both short and long term.
Chickened out of riding outside today, I've been pushing workouts to outside recently but just couldn't be bothered today (mrs did brave it and came back perished!)
Did Galena+1. Fairly tough but at least I finished it this year, last year I bailed halfway through the final 20min interval. Got quite a few power PRs particularly 30min +.
Recovery week next week.
I haven't done much outdoor riding at all this year though if I'm totally honest its partly because I saved up for a nice road bike last year and in my head its very much a "summer" bike and I can't really bear to slog it through the winter muck and grit as spent ages saving up for it.
Started a 4 month TR plan last week and my "event" is a tilt at my Strava PB on a local climb at the end of May. I had no intention of actually doing it and was really using it purely as a placemarker but now I've input it it seems as good an objective as any, so that's now the objective.
Start of my plan hasn't been helped by getting an eye infection but I don't suppose that's any reason not to hit the turbo.
I’ve just started with trainer road - never really used a turbo before, or had any kind of structured cycle training. Just looking to up my fitness for mtb pretty much. I don’t plan to race or anything - just want to be a bit quicker up the hills mostly.
I’ve been using a dumb trainer and done the ramp test / erikson -1 sessions so far. The longer weekend session it suggests every week I’m skipping as out on my mountain bike having fun instead. Either 40k ish with around 300m of climbing or 25k ish with 800 metres of climbing recently (all from the door with no car / no gnar trails).
I’ve run the turbo with a Garmin speed sensor / cadence sensor and hr chest strap and it’s been ok. On the ramp test I found the cadence was mental high to hit the virtual power when it got over 260 ish - ran out of gears to slow it down with 50/11 as my highest. On erikson -1 this was less of an issue and my legs already seem to be finding going at higher rpm than normal easier.
Got another 2 sessions in this week - then my new smart turbo should arrive (Kickr Core).
If I change the turbo in my settings so TR knows I’ve got a smart trainer is it going to just let me continue with the plan where I’ve got to, or is it going to want me to do a ramp test and start over? Will be interesting to see if it’s been over or under estimating my power - hoping it’s the latter!
TR will let you continue the plan, but it will keep your FTP the same until you do a new ramp test. Personally, I would be looking to do a ramp test as soon as possible on your new Kickr Core, if virtual power has been overestimating then you are going to find the workouts too tough.
A different set of equipment, but when i moved from Saris Magnus measured power to Garmin Vector V3, I had to take a 6.5% drop in FTP. Demoralising!
I found erikson-1 bloody hard and had to turn the intensity down from 100 to 90% so maybe it has overestimated it (sad face)
Yeh do a new Ramp Test - use the next week or so just to get used to the structure. I lost 25w from my FTP overnight when I went from a wheel on trainer to a wheel off trainer!
Think my virtual ftp is only 238 to start with, so not a huge amount to lose!
You should really retest whenever you change equipment, well bike, turbo, power meter. I think I "lost" 15% going from virtual power to a proper power meter.
If you are doing Ericsson-1 then you're on a low volume plan so if you arrange your training days through the week you've got the weekend to play outside which is what I do.
Ericsson-1 shouldn't be "bloody hard" unless you've got your FTP totally wrong. Looking at the last time I did Ericsson (not done the -1 version, it may have been added to SSBLV1 recently, Mount Field used to be the first workout after the ramp test) my HR only just got into Z4 for less than a minute. Does your trainer have resistance levels that you can change or is the resistance purely down to how quickly you pedal and your gearing? 260W does seem very low for any turbo to be topping out.
Do you have a decent fan? I.e. one that really blasts air across you? It's very easy to overheat on a turbo.
If you want anyone to look at how you are coping with workouts then make your profile public, assuming you've no really personal data in there.
Edit: if you've not trained (properly) before then you may well see a significant increase in FTP at the end of SSBLV1 which can be as much about testing better and being used to riding on the turbo as actual fitness gains. Be warned! SSBLV2 is hard work and is mostly threshold (FTP) and above rather than sweet spot or endurance. TR themselves say that it's almost Build pt1.
Just checked and I’m on sweet spot base low volume 1.
Trainer at the moment is a cycleops mag+ that’s done the rounds of a few people - I can’t workout if the resistance adjustment is actually doing much.
On the ramp test I ended up in 50/11 in terms of gears and over 100 cadence to try and keep up with the virtual power target. The test actually says max cadence was 113 on trainer road that I can see - but Strava claims it was 133rpm. Can’t believe that Strava figure - my legs don’t go that fast.
As soon as the Kickr arrives I’ll re-run the ramp test one morning.
In terms of erikson-1 being hard I’d say it was the burn in the front of my thighs that hurt - aerobically I was feeling ok. I reckon it’s just the intensity I’m pushing at on the turbo is higher than I’d push myself out on the mtb or even road bike.
To work out if the adjustment is doing anything put your gears into something in the middle of the range and pedal constantly. Set the resistance to the lowest level. Have the TR app running. Now adjust the resistance to maximum but keep pedalling at the same rate, it should feel harder but TR will report the same power as it doesn't know you've changed things.
Something seems wrong TBH, 50/11 at almost any resistance should feel hard especially at a cadence of 100rpm. I've a magnetic dumb trainer and on level 2 I'd be pushing out over 1000W at 100rpm in 50/11, in fact even in sprints I don't remember getting to a bigger gear than 50/14 before I couldn't give any more. I've been doing VO2max workouts and at 150% of FTP (272W) so 400W, my wife complains that the furniture around the house is shaking!
SSBLV1 = Sweet Spot Base Low Volume 1 BTW, it's the only plan Ericsson-1 appears in.
Turbo work is hard work, you get zero rests which is unusual outdoors unless you are doing a TT, even then there's likely to be a little coasting for tight bends or the turn at a roundabout. In fact we probably rely on those micro rests a lot more than we'd like to admit. So you'll need a little time to get used to things. But if your FTP is right then in theory (and assuming trained) you should be able to hold the power levels in the intervals in Ericsson-1 for nearly 2hrs at a stretch.
It can also be useful in understanding RPE levels in terms of your power output, on a 1-10 scale 7-8 is the sort of effort you should be able to hold for an hour. It's not a bad check, I've done some workouts outdoors without a power meter using RPE and estimated power has been very close to what I'd do indoors even allowing for being on a fat bike or MTB.
Some of the workout instructions can be a bit event/bike specific so you'll learn to ignore those 😇 But the cadence ones can be useful. Also read the workout blurb to understand what that workout is trying to achieve.
Cool cheers - I think the 238 ftp is probably too high then as I found Erikson really hard on the legs. Will do a few more workouts on it this week and then when the Kickr turns up I’ll get it all setup then redo the ramp test on there. See where I end up then! Any kind of decent interval training will improve my fitness at the moment I reckon. Never had a proper plan - just tried to ride as much as I can whilst being a dad / working etc!