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Starting again tonight after being tired and ill since early December. Couple of false starts already this year although one of those was due to an event at the end of Feb.
Ramp Test tonight which won't be pretty and back into SSB2 which officially I started on Tuesday :0)
Finished SSB2 back in December and the Tuesday V02 max sessions I enjoy more than others. Hopefully get outside for a decent ride most weekends too.
@whitestone thanks for all the info I’ve never really thought about things in that way before !
Great shout on the fuelling as well - normally just sip on water so I’m going to experiment with some snacks soon.
Did carter+3 last night and found it quite tough.. those 45 mins flat out efforts are hard! Completed it but had to dig deep in the middle
Did an outside workout via Garmin 530.
Works well although with 6minute threshold intervals I was expecting to have to manually start each interval but limited rest between them probably means they are all in the same "set".
Mind you I didn't pick a suitable route. More one I wanted to ride. Too many steep downhills.
Looks like all early season TTs will be cancelled following the government statement yesterday, at the minimum probably. (Don't think CTT have made an official statement yet, but hard to see how they can proceed). Reckon I'll park the powerbuild then.
Might look at zwift tbh. Sounds like a bit of a Ted-fest but we live in interesting times.
@Garry_Lager - realistically is there going to be any racing this year? They are talking about indefinite lockdown till a vaccine is ready and that is optimistically 18mo away. Just in week 6 of SSB1, guess I'll move onto SSB2 as I may as well do something but I am unsure whether I'll have the motivation to be rigourous with the thought there may well not be a cx season coming up!
I have been struggling with motivation now that stuff has been cancelled. Going to look to maintain fitness I think rather than try and push the envelope.
@Garry_Lager – realistically is there going to be any racing this year? They are talking about indefinite lockdown till a vaccine is ready and that is optimistically 18mo away. Just in week 6 of SSB1, guess I’ll move onto SSB2 as I may as well do something but I am unsure whether I’ll have the motivation to be rigourous with the thought there may well not be a cx season coming up!
No cyclocross season? These are truly the last days.
Indefinite lockdown sounds extreme - is anyone seriously suggesting that? Be like McCarthy's The Road.
It's what I saw on the BBC! Fingers crossed not.
Having missed my first event of the year due to breaking my collarbone it is now looking increasingly likely that my next event, The Dales Dive, at Easter will also be called off as well as a possible ITT of the HT550 in mid May. The Dales Divide is almost suited to gravel bikes but the HT is definitely MTB terrain so concerns about injury and unnecessary strain on health services do apply. The one year I actually plan out what I want to do and work towards it, look what happens ...
I’m currently halfway through Sustained Power Build Low Volume which will end with the recovery week in the week before Easter. I was then going to start on the Cross Country Marathon Speciality plan which just fits in the gap before the HT but not sure now - I might drop on to one of the maintenance plans and mix it up with some steady road rides. All depends on what sort of "lock down" we end up having.
On a slightly more positive note - I did a Ramp Test yesterday and saw my FTP rise by 12 Watts 👍 I'm now at 3.1W/kg, OK I might as well blow my own trumpet - 3.13W/kg😊 🎉 The downside is that the next set of workouts are going to be bloody tough!
Since starting up again with TR in October and actually following the plans all the way through my FTP has risen by just under 11%. I'd an initial target of 3W/kg and a long term goal of 3.5W/kg. According to TR's figures on their users (see this post on their forums - https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/the-bell-curve-of-cylists-how-fast-are-the-average-tr-users/5840/123 ) that would put me somewhere around the 95th percentile for my age group (60-80).
My limiter in the test seems to be oxygen uptake, I'm gasping and my vision's going blurred towards the end 😳 but there's still something, maybe a minute, left in my legs and my HR is nowhere near my maximum - I think it got to 164bpm yesterday whereas I know I can get it to mid 170s. So maybe a plan that targets VO2max and/or anaerobic is in order, my power curve is sadly lacking at the sprint end of things - my 5sec power is only 2.4 times my FTP for example. Might just be an age thing, the Morton analysis of power distribution seems to be based on young racers. I've mentioned Intervals.icu before. Looking at my (age specific) power distribution on there shows I'm in the 40% percentile range for my 5s & 60s power but 70% for 5mins, 50% for 20mins and 61% for FTP.
Where you looking to cane the HT550 (minimal sleep etc), and set a good time whitestone? Probably right to shelve that in the current climate. Going steady on it, OTOH, might be an option if you wanted to.
I've done a five day HT550 so was wanting to do a better time, you don't have to blast the technical sections to do so: less haste and more speed and all that. Better to be cautious and keep moving - you need to look at the end goal rather than the individual sections.
I'm not going to break Neil Beltchenko's time but comparing his riding and stopped times with mine there's a big difference - he stopped for a total of ten hours, I stopped for 42hrs! I think you can see where I can make up time 😉 Obviously minimal sleep comes at a price of lessened awareness and while in normal times that risk is acceptable it's less so at the mo.
My motivation has ebbed rapidly as the day has gone one. Can't even face doing the planned Pettit today!
The only reason I can see to do Pettit is to check cardiac drift since you need a long steady state workout. Otherwise it's just an old skool turbo session and BORING.
cancelled, nothing to train for, so might as well do more unstructured fun stuff
I've been trying out the TrainerRoad ride oustide function a bit in the nice weather. It's really good, the workout gets pushed to your Garmin and wven with my old edge 500 it works pretty well. SCreen is a bit small to see the required watts avoe your power reading but so long as you are familiar with what is expected it's no issue.
Nice to feel like I'm doing proper training and not wasting sunshine. Still with the weather chaning It's back indoors now.
However, I see that both the scottish and central CX leagues have already cancelled seasons so motivation is lacking as I expect all leagues may follow suit.
Question is what training strategy for a season that starts in 18 months!!!
Question is what training strategy for a season that starts in 18 months!!!
Either:
- take a break from structure
or
- take the time to work on something you usually wouldn't. I'm planning on working on sustained power so I can do some self-timed TTs in the autumn
Question is what training strategy for a season that starts in 18 months!!!
If you have a look at the TR forums https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/ there's lots of threads about this (and lots of variations). Quelle surprise!
I'm currently doing one of the speciality plans, Climbing Road Race, as the last times I did a winter's TR the weather had improved by the end of Build so I never got to do Speciality.
My thought is to have a go at the various plans I'd never normally do, probably the Low Volume which leaves plenty of time for outdoor rides at the weekends.
Surprisingly given my last post on this thread I did Pettit today. Mind you it makes up for Huxley+1 yesterday which required giving myself a good talking to to get through the last set!
I have increased to SSB Medium Volume. Almost at the end of Base 1 and then onto Base 2. I am using the time to build a strong base. Working from home has allowed me to do that but I also think I can do more volume when/if things get back to normal(ish).
I am also using the time to understand my training better and tracking in intervals.icu. Fitness had gone from 34 to 49 over the space of the last month. I have been better able to add volume and I have currently ridden 14 days in a row and still feeling pretty good. Some days this has just been a taku 30 mins spin but it all helps to build and maintain the base. It currently predicts that I will be at 59 fitness for the middle of June which is about 2 weeks before the Jennride was due to start. Cant see that going ahead but I am hopeful that restrictions would have been lifted enough so that I can consider a big day out to do something with the fitness I have trained.
I live just outside Derby so a 80 -100 mile mtb route around the solstice from my house is an option. Also the base fitness I am acquiring will stand me in good stead for future years.
I have also been doing Weeksys group rides on Zwift to maintain some non-structured fun and setting PBs in them for sprints and also being able to hold on to the power a lot longer (and the group) than previously possible.
As I have a zwift subscription at the moment as well when I do a TR workout I also run Zwift and I am working my way through the route badges.
I'm going to finish ssb2 (three more weeks left) and then think, but good suggestion to try something different in the plans. I am finding the structured plan good for sanity in lockdown as it marksthe weeks!!
Intervals.icu is great for data geeks. Not me honest, errm ...
I’ve been using intervals.icu for a while and it’s taken me a while to get my head around everything but read up on things and it starts to make sense. A good example is the fitness graph you allude to and "form".
On a couple of occasions my “form” has touched or dipped below the -30 level.
The first time was the Saturday before the Covid-19 lockdown started when I did a 80km MTB ride which was mostly into a headwind and riding through mud and felt really hard. Hard enough that I didn’t go for a ride on the Sunday. There’s another dip at -28 just after this which is when I did Washington+4 and Fish-2 on successive days, my comments for the latter begin “That was hard work!”
The second time was last weekend, on Saturday I did North Twin +2 in the morning and then went for a steady, mostly Z1, ride with my wife in the evening. On the Sunday I should have done Antelope+2 but felt tired so subbed it for Carter. It was only when I looked at the fitness graph that I noticed a few red pixels.
I’m certainly pushing things too much when my form gets to -30 but I haven’t yet worked out what is the lowest value I could maintain, -25 sort of feels right but might be a little on the conservative side.
My fitness has gone from 10 to 52 since last October (a bit of a break (sic) in Jan/Feb when I broke my collarbone) but it's not something I've specifically targeted, it's just a consequence of actually tracking what I'm doing. My FTP has gone from 241W to 266W and I'm now at 3.1W/kg, a long term goal is 3.5W/kg but it's not the sole focus of my training.
@ferrals - the real variety is in the Build and Speciality plans so I just look through them and pick one that I either like the look of or I think it will help with any weaknesses, of which there are many! I did Sustained Power Build last time but next time I do Build I'll probably do General Build as it targets the short explosive power a bit more.
From the TR blog and podcasts they recommend to match the speciality plan to the demands of your main event rather than go on what it's called or which group it's in. So for the JennRide, Climbing Road Race might be a better fit than Cross Country Marathon for example.
In a way the lockdown is an opportunity to actually focus on training in a manner similar to how pro riders can approach it. We've time to train hard and more importantly recover properly.
Yeh I have managed to keep it mostly in the optimal training area. If anything I could possibly add a bit more volume but I have a 6 year old and still working from home so still needs to be balanced. It is not doing the other stuff that has given me more time (after school clubs, beavers etc).
Whatever I do my fitness for Jennride this year will be a lot better. Last year I did some structured training doing zwift plans and when I look back my fitness was poor but I was also knackered as what I was doing wasn't beneficial. I think you overtook me a couple of times whitestone on the ride last year. It is a shame that the hard work wont pay off this year (but small issue in the greater scheme of things) but I believe that I am setting my base to a new level that I can maintain and grow for future years so has been good to get this opportunity
In a way the lockdown is an opportunity to actually focus on training in a manner similar to how pro riders can approach it. We’ve time to train hard and more importantly recover properly
Ha! speak for yourself! I have way less time than previously. Two adults both needing to work and a toddler needing looking after/entertaining/ 'educating' so not proving the most relaxing!
I'll have a look at intervals.icu as I do like data.
@ferrals - fair enough!
intervals.icu is one of the programs/sites that uses your Strava data so you'll need your rides/workouts to be logged there and be public.
@robbo1234biking - I think I remember you correctly, saw you heading over to Seathwaite on the Saturday and coming out of Coniston on the Sunday.
Forgot to say.
When choosing plans look at the power profiles of the intervals in each workout and try and match those to what you want to do. An example would be Bondcliff in Short Power Build - the description mentions "race starts" but a short power surge followed by a sustained effort is just what you want when faced with a short technical section on a climb. Something like the Criterium Speciality plan takes that further with lots of efforts interspersed with "not quite rests" so even though it's aimed at city centre road racing it's quite a good fit for the short repeated efforts needed in mountain biking.
Is there a "TrainerRoad For Dummies" guide anywhere? I've been doing Sufferfest daily since lockdown started here 45 days ago, and it's certainly been helping (FTP now 120% of what it was prior to start!) but I wonder if a proper plan might not be more effective. And reading things like "There’s another dip at -28 just after this which is when I did Washington+4 and Fish-2 on successive days" is pure gibberish to me 🙂
Aagh! typed a big long reply then got a "502 bad gateway" and lost it all.
Go to trainerroad.com and there's a lot there. This link *should* be public - https://www.trainerroad.com/app/career/bobw/calendar so you can see what a plan looks like. You won't be able to click through to the actual workouts, you have to be signed up to do that but you might be able to view the workouts I've already done.
The "Washington+4" bits are workout names in Trainerroad. The -28 refers to a metric in Training Peaks/intervals.icu that tracks fitness, fatigue and form. Form being the difference between fitness and fatigue and in my instance was at -28 which won't mean anything unless you can view the graph with it on and know that the theory behind it all says that -30 is the borderline of overtraining.
mogrimm - I have a free month of trainerroad I can give to you. It is actually very simple. You can use something called plan builder to input a few variable and answer questions about you and it will build a plan for you dependin on how much time you have available and your experience of interval training. I am happy to help but would recommend taking the month trail and doing Sweet Spot Base training plan (volume dependent on how much time you have available).
It really does make the training simple and beyond this you can geek out as much as you want.
I've got some freebies to give away too.
Done a couple of group workouts with a friend. Good motivator but not what I'd want to do everytime. Ramp Test would be a good one as a Group workout for me.
Reset mine to SSB1 although haven't actually done much of it. Loads and loads of Z2 on Zwift and some racing and the odd TR session. Plan is to start SSB2 and do Tuesdays session and probably the Saturday one and race or ride around that.
@mogrim - I *think* you can have a play with TR's plan builder without subscribing: https://www.trainerroad.com/plan-builder
It will let you put in a few parameters about goals/experience/time available and put together something for you to follow.
FWIW, I've been using TR for years and I still glaze over when people start naming the workouts or talking about their own metrics. I don't think an understanding of these is needed to have success.
I just did a ramp test, then selected Enduro training plan with an random August date as the end goal to work towards.
So far really impressed.
Much better than Zwift / Sufferfest etc for me personally.
Thanks for the replies, I'll take a look into it 🙂
Been using trainerroad for a while now using virtual power via an elite fluid wheel on turbo trainer. I can keep things fairly consistent as I have an old bike set up on it permanently in the shed meaning even if the power readings are way off they should be fairly consistent, session by session.
Curiosity is getting the better of me and I’d like to train using more accurate power measurements. My initial thoughts were to look at direct drive smart trainers but then I thought of a crank arm power meter from 4iiii, stages or Avio. This would be significantly cheaper than a new turbo trainer and given I’ve got ANT+ stick already I’m assuming the power readings would sync to trainerroad.
Does anyone use a similar set up and care to comment on the power meters I mentioned? Thanks.
I've a 4iiii power meter. Easy to setup/calibrate. I'm assuming it's consistent but I've nothing to compare it against! No need to get Ultegra just to match, the 105 works just as well and is cheaper!
Gave "lower" values, by about 20%, than virtual power so if you swap mid-plan then you'll need to retest to get things into alignment otherwise you'll be training at some weird level.
Since it's measuring closer to the power input there's less reliance on having the tyre pressures and turbo resistance exact for every session - I'll use the resistance adjustment to find the sweet spot for cadence as my FTP improves.
Cheers Whitestone, sounds promising. I’m not tempted by Zwift as TR gives me what I need, plus the shed has no WiFi to use my laptop, which I think Zwift needs, whereas TR doesn’t.
Another reason I’m keen on a power meter is the the fluid in the turbo warming up during a session and later efforts being easier (may also be due to me being warmed up, but I do think it’s an issue). With a powermeter this would be eradicated.
I went virtual power -> power meter (stages in my case) -> smart trainer and by far the most profound improvement was the power meter. Not least because I could use it outside too. The other main advantage was the trainer warm-up thing you mention - you can keep lots of things consistent in your set up but it’s pretty hard to keep the temperature the same.
As above, you’ll need to re-test. My FTP was 80w higher on the power meter.
Nice one - don’t we all love an FTP test!
Anyone used the Avio power meter? It’s by a long way the cheapest.
Stevious +1
I've just gone from power meter + dumb trainer to smart trainer and whilst the upgrade is nice I'm not sure it's necessary.
Hi folks,
I've been waiting and waiting until I'm 'ready' to start training again, but then noticed that Trainerroad offers 'traditional base' which is aimed at people coming back form injury. This would build nicely towards Sweetspot Base before doing alternating build/speciality blocks until my event next year.
Question though - is traditional base much better than just putting in lots of gentle hours outdoors? I don't want to be tied to the trainer or the rollers just as we come into summer. Should I just keep doing the hours and go straight into sweetspot base?
How much of the base plans could be usefully done outdoors with only a heartrate monitor?
Ta
(somebody on here very generously gave me a free trial which I've yet to use, saving it for when I'm ready to start in earnest!).
Unless 60-150mins of Z1/2 on a turbo appeals then I'd do the equivalent outdoors especially given the fine weather. I struggle with the 60min version of them TBH but am fine with 75 & 90min workouts that have multiple efforts and some variety.
You can send a TR workout to Garmin and Wahoo units for outdoor rides. There's a couple of posts on their Blog about outdoor workouts - https://blog.trainerroad.com/?s=outside
I wouldn't do continual Build-Speciality blocks - speciality plans are intended to be the last block before an event and are deliberately intense and have a long taper. The general TR recommendation is to do repeated Base-Build cycles. In the case of Sweet Spot Base, the first block is mostly getting you into the swing of things with various drills, the second part is where the fun starts so Base-Build really means SSB-Pt2 then Build and repeat. Only do a speciality when you are approaching your event.
Their full Sweet Spot Base, Build, Speciality sequence takes 26 weeks so worth taking that into consideration.
Even if you aren't signed up yet you can have a play around with TR's Plan Builder, you just can't save the results.
I'm currently doing a Speciality plan, well doing it badly more like, since previously I never got much past halfway through Build before summer arrived and I abandoned the turbo for outdoors. One of my events might happen in August so I've got a plan from Plan Builder for that then I'll do the Base-Build-repeat into the back end. I'll try some of the other Build plans that I'd normally shy away from just to see what they are like.
Ok good advice, it seems unrealistic to stick to a full year plan anyway, have an entire year to play with (aiming for Raid Pyrenean next summer).
Can do another few more weeks 'traditional' base then do a big block of basic HR sweetspot outdoors, have some nice long TT courses lined up.
A big appeal of Trainerroad is that it works well with my Kinetics trainer, can warm up and perform spin down callibration, so I could be a bit more accurate with my intervals.
bump, anyone want a free month? message me
Has anyone had much success with the low volume plan? I appreciate I won't build and maintain fitness the way I used to but I don't think I have time for the mid-volume, would rather end up doing more if I have time than skipping workouts I think
I have mainly done LV and upped my FTP 60W (225ish up to 284 at my peak this summer). I am about 10W down at the moment as I had a bit of an offseason but just starting up for next year now. I do do other rides outside of that (such as Zwift races etc) so that will contribute as well but the structure really brings on the gains for me.
As long as you have an accurate FTP you should improve/maintain the fitness you have got. I normally expect a decent bump in FTP when I restart TR in the autumn. My fitness drops after the summer til I decide to do something about it. Last year I bumped up about 10% on SSBLV.
I've only ever done the low volume plans (along with a mix of general riding and other sports). Looking at the plans the low volume has less workouts but they are either as hard or harder than the mid-volume equivalents.
The one and only time I've trained consistently in the last few years it was all low volume but I did SSB1, SSB2 General Build and MTB Marathon (Training for BCBR). My ftp went from 265 to 315.
I agree it also feels better to add on the odd extra ride than be constantly skipping sessions. It's not quite winter yet but I'll be SSB1 and then (perhaps) a few low intensity fasted rides in the morning as well.