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@stevious good call but it kind of makes sense. I don't need to eat a load on days that I am not riding. It is also in the Sufferfest document 'Eating to Suffer' and I have also been reading the Endurance Diet as well.
Got a paypal address for the £1.28 😉
Got a paypal address for the £1.28
I've got the coins right here. They're yours minus p&p (£5 for signed tracked delivery, obvs).
With plan builder if you don't put an event as a target (or put it a long way away) it cycles you through Base and Build. Make any events b or c and it won't target them also.
I think when I played with it anyway.
Usually do a few months of trainerroad around this time of year. Pondering giving the sufferfest a go instead this year and do the 14 day free trial. Wondering if it can be used offline as per trainerroad as my shed is too far from the house for a WiFi connection.
Shortbread I've got a free month code if you want to drop me a pm.
My ftp has gone up from 242 on 2nd Nov to 300 on 2nd Feb. So I know its working! That's on low volume training and no sleep!
right, im in, Hammers 8 as an A event, just feel i have long ride endurance that will suit, lets get found out, local cx series does not start until a week after this, so fitness will be carried through, happy with this, been top 2-5 depending on who turns up, want to push more to the front, always a local hero who wins, can i get closer?
did a good month of sufferfest Vo2 prior to the Hope MTB Marathon in September and got around in a decent time despite a huge crash and a smashed shoulder, so im ok with training,
time! ever an issue, work 25 hours, mid 1st year degree, so not a massive issue this year, work load is low, (old student), young family (9,7,5,3) so its also an exercise in time management which I've pissed away for a while, to be fair, i needed it
so low volume plan, lets not over reach, but fit other workouts/outdoors in, Monday i can do, uni is at 12, school run 9 so i can do an hour/hour half, in between, no issues, Wednesdays, looking at my rota going forward, yup, no issue, mostly clear, Fridays, which is generally the longer one at 1:30, hmmmm hit and miss,
should i sub in the longer Friday ride for earlier in the week when i know i can get it done, squeeze in a shorter one on tighter days,
off days, volumes volume for the first few weeks surely? as long as its not massive efforts?
ramp test a couple of days ago gave me 281w, that off maybe 10 rides in the last 6-10 weeks, 2x outdoor at pace, (Dalby Red 1:58 & Sherwood, touch under 0:40) - weight at 83kg (mrs on 12 weeks paid slimming world funded by work, i know slimming world is bullshit, however if she's eating better, it will knock on, so hoping for a few kg off at least)
plan builder says taylor -2 for tomorrow, that seems unfair 😆
I'd see how you get on with the workload before adding anything too big. The efforts get harder as you progress through the plan so even though you think you can handle things it's possible that you'll overdo things. No reason to step outside the plan unless you have specific reason to do so.
The Wednesday workouts are Sweet Spot, depends how you get on with that target zone, you could do Monday, Tuesday and Thursday if that fitted your rota.
Shortbread I’ve got a free month code if you want to drop me a pm.
PM sent - cheers.
Week two of SSB1 at the moment. Things dont seem as tricky as I remebmered, I seem to remember even things like carson (todays workout) being a bit of an effort. As it, I've completed this weeks workouts so far without issue and no real feeling in my legs afterwards. Wondering whether to bump things up by a few watts. Don't want to be training inefficiently and I guess upping the wattage won't be detrimental unless I can't complete workouts.
I'm picking TR back up after a January of no training and general self abuse.
I'm going to do SSB1 again - I did it before xmas and it real did improve my fitness.
But before I scheduled the 6 week block I thought I would dive back in and try a couple of workouts.
Tried a sprint workout called "Wynne" yesterday, it nearly killed me!
I like Wynne, I find it mentally more acheivale that some of the other high intensity workouts!
I think I found SSB1 not too bad but by the 4th and 5th week was glad I left the FTP where it was.
Adding notes to all workouts is very handy for future reference. I often struggle on the second set of V02max intervals and having that noted previously means it's just a bit mental work to get into the second set then it's plain sailing as I tend to be flying on the 3rd set, albeit on the edge of cracking but it's nearly over.
I broke my collarbone a month ago so have been totally indoors since then (well since I started back on the trainer after ten days or so), but given the weather and particularly the wind, I don't think I'm missing much. I did some steady endurance/tempo workouts at first then last week I sort of picked workouts that I liked the look of. Let's just say Broken Finger -2 is hard!
I've just started Sustained Power Build Low Volume, did Carpathian Peak yesterday and have Mount Goode tomorrow. Surprisingly my FTP didn't really suffer but Monday's Ramp test only saw a 4W increase since the end of SSBLV2.
+1 to adding notes to the workouts. I put things like how well I slept the night before and whether I ate during the workout.
@ferrals - I'd leave the FTP where it is for now, things do ramp up over time. I take it you are doing the Medium Volume plan if Carson is 2nd week - see how you feel after Tunnemah as over/unders will give the best indication of whether your FTP is correct, i.e. you should feel a burn during the overs and be able to recover (slowly) during the unders.
Did Disaster-1 on Sunday as weekend plans at BPW had been rained off by Dennis.
Getting towards the end of Specialty - XCM Mid Volume and the legs and lungs felt okay, but 3h20 was a long time to on the turbo. Even getting out of the saddle between the various blocks wasn't enough.
I don't know how people can do the unabridged 4h15 version!
cheers @whitestone, that was what was stopping me, I had a feeling it was a slow burn thing that builds up over time.
Put everything in the calendar up to early Oct cx season. Looking forward to starting to tck the weeks off and hopefully get backa bit of fitness ocmpared to the last couple of years.
I’m picking TR back up after a January of no training and general self abuse.
I’m going to do SSB1 again – I did it before xmas and it real did improve my fitness.
But before I scheduled the 6 week block I thought I would dive back in and try a couple of workouts.
Tried a sprint workout called “Wynne” yesterday, it nearly killed me!
Coming in cold to a VO2max turbo sesh is brutal - personally I can't do it, maybe as a younger man. But Wynne with your turbo legs underneath you is easy peasy, so you'll kill it as part of a structured block.
Been sat on my ringpiece the past month since cross finished, figure it doesn't hurt to sharpen the saw every once in a while. Getting back on it now for timetrial season, going to try and legit complete the powerbuild block, which I've always struggled to do with cycle commuting.
I’ve begun SSB1 again too. Found the first few workouts pretty tough compared to the last time I did this plan. This is after doing the ramp test which hopefully has given a better representation of my FTP. Legs have felt better on the last few workouts so maybe there’s a bit of turbo adaptation needed as well.
Did Disaster-1
animal 🙂
Heehee. Thanks @dirtyrider.
I did chuckle about the "turbotrainer of desperation" in FGF today. Definitely feeling that with 3 weeks until the main event.
Great to see so many people on here using TR. I've found it really helpful, though I'm looking forward to some unstructured, outdoor riding come May!
short update,
used plan builder end of jan and loaded in XC Marathon for like 12 weeks time, first up was some SSB LV2 workouts, not been outside, not had time, and quite frankly, its awful out there,
ramp test, then first 9 workouts, missed 1 (Clark), subbed one (Palisade, for a similar intensity ride up the AduZ), and did a 30 minute Darwin instead of 1hr earlier this week, just done Mary Austin -1 - tough, but nothing awful,
onto Sustained Power Build next, doesn't seem to be a recovery week at this point in the plan, just a ramp test scheduled on Monday/Tuesday
ramp test after Threshold work? will be interesting to see how it goes,
been eating better as a result of the mrs eating better, and tracking it with my fitness pal job, down approx 2kg, need to do some strength work as well
@dirtyrider - I started Sustained Power Build Low Volume last week. Only done two of the workouts so far - Carpathian Peak and Mount Goode - they feel a little harder than the workouts in Sweet Spot Base, most are fifteen minutes longer so you've a bit extra stress there.
Not sure why the Plan Builder hasn't put in a recovery week, I haven't used it myself yet as I'd sorted out what I wanted to do a couple of weeks before they released it. If you only started with it a couple of weeks ago then it might have decided that there was no point in a recovery week, that's assuming that you didn't tell the program that you'd actually started SSB X weeks previously.
I got myself a bluetooth HRM this week and Mount Goode was the first workout I used it. (I've an ANT+ HRM but it won't work with the iPad so I had to get another) I was interested in my aerobic coupling/cardiac drift, how your heart rate varies during intervals, anything over 6% seems to indicate that you aren't fit enough. Glad to say that my values were under 4% so it seems that I'm aerobically "adapted" but quite how I use that info I don't know.
Not sure why the Plan Builder hasn’t put in a recovery week,
found this under the week 5 notes
Coming into an FTP assessment fresh may seem requisite with regards to measuring improvement, but the fact of the matter is sometimes you'll carry a bit of fatigue into a reassessment workout. But don't worry since most of your workouts will be performed with some level of fatigue in your muscles since many workouts are performed with residual effects carried over from recent, previous training. Try to be fresh but don't sweat it if you're not 100% recovered from recent training stress.
so it seems as design, don't expect much, if any increase based on the last 4 weeks,
did 285w (Quarq) in September and 281w (Neo) January
Re. drift, always took it as 5% or less on a steady state Z2 workout would indicate your base is good...so perhaps ready to enter build phases depending on your periodisation.
@Haze - wasn't sure if it was 5% or 6%.
As I said I hadn't got a suitable HRM until last week so I'd already started my build phase. I'm going to do Boarstone, not sure if this link https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/20749-boarstone is public, today as a 2hr Z2 workout which should give a better idea.
This Training Peaks article https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/aerobic-endurance-and-decoupling/ describes aerobic decoupling but not really how to use that information other than:
When heart rate and pace or speed are coupled (less than 5% decoupling) for the goal duration then aerobic endurance fitness is considered to be optimal and you are ready to move on to the next stage of training-the build period.
suggesting it's something to target during the base phase only and then it's a case of maintenance. Maybe it's a matter of monitoring and noting whether it starts to rise which might indicate the onset of illness.
5%\6% neither here nor there for me really, if I’m around that figure then I consider it a fair indication.
But mostly it backs up what I probably feel anyway and adds the confidence that things are heading in the right direction.
I’ve not thought about using it as a possibly sign of illness but it’s something worth looking into maybe with HRV...could just as well use it as a sign of fatigue, need for recovery etc.
I did Boarstone today. My first "steady state" endurance ride since I've swapped out similar workouts for somewhat more varied ones.
At 15mins the app on the iPad froze. Had to quit it and resume the workout. Only did it the once. Annoyingly this meant that when the data was exported to Strava and Intervals.icu only the first fifteen minutes was exported. One of the reasons to do a workout like this was to figure out my aerobic decoupling on longer steady state rides in intervals.icu so I've had to work the values out by hand.
The average power values in either half of each "interval" were within a couple of Watts of each other (I'm on a dumb wheel-on trainer) so no great disparity to through things off.
Seven "intervals" with decoupling of: 4.7%; 0.16%; -0.17%; 0%; 0.33%; 0.5%; -2.39%. Yes there are two minus values and a zero in the series.
I don't think I need worry about being aerobically adapted! I've really no idea whether this is typical for me but I shouldn't be surprised that there's good coupling as I've the best part of fifty years' worth of activity, walking, running, climbing, biking that's basically been endurance zone based.
Does anyone run a smart turbo off their power meter on the bike? (power matching is the term wahoo uses). I can set this up OK on my kickr but erg mode is very different - using the turbo power erg mode is really precise, output is a flat line with no variance, but using my power meter (a bepro pedal) it's much more oscillatory around the target power and the erg mode feels more vague.
Not sure which I prefer - I like how the turbo erg mode is just take brain out and pedal, but dislike how it ramps up immediately on an interval which can be harsh on the legs. With the bike power meter it feels more natural but you need to concentrate to keep the power on target.
Prefer ERG personally, need to stay on top of your cadence and definitely helps to be spinning just above your target for the interval when it kicks in. I try to build up around 20 or 30 seconds before.
Can concentrate on form/drills a little bit too knowing that power is taken care of.
Never tried power matching but may have a gander when I get around to it, would be interesting to compare.
using the turbo power erg mode is really precise, output is a flat line with no variance, but using my power meter (a bepro pedal) it’s much more oscillatory around the target power
Wahoo artificially smooth your power readings in TR: https://www.smartbiketrainers.com/myth-smooth-power-lines-3490 - I think other smart trainers do as well.
I use power match and find that although I fluctuate around the target power it doesn't really affect the overall power of the interval. Sometimes it's a handful of watts out either way but nothing that's ever derailed a workout.
I chose to stick with it so that I didn't have to compensate in the difference in readings between my Stages and my turbo when using the bike IRL.
Thks Haze and Stevious - Are you on erg mode Stevious? My set up feels like something's not right in that respect on the power match, as I can drop the power quite a bit below target. If you slow your cadence on the turbo erg mode you instantly feel a big build up in resistance from the turbo to maintain target power.
Easiest thing would be to just use the turbo power but I have quite a discrepancy, 7 - 8%, so would be good to go off the bike power as that's what I'll be testing on.
Average the two out so you’re at +/-4% possibly? Then use the intensity to adjust as necessary
The sweet spot base burn definitely kicked in this weekend! Saturdays over-unders required a bit of concentration but were doable. Sundays tempo session was a real struggle and I did Leavitt +1 not +2 due to time constraints; admittedly I did it at 6am but I was expecting an easy-ish hr 15 of riding listening to podcasts but found it really mentally taxing and had to back pedal a couple fo times. Pleased I didnt up my FTP!!
@Garry-Lager I am on ERG mode. For the problem you're having it might work to put the bike in a lower gear to keep the flywheel inertia lower? I think that makes it easier for the powermatch to do its job.
If you keep having problems, the TR support team are really good.
@ferrals - I find the workouts that are similar to old school turbo sessions the hardest mentally, you really do need some distraction for them. I substituted similar workouts when I came to them in my recovery weeks so workouts like Baxter which are reasonable approximations of a rolling road ride with near constant switching of effort. I use sub threshold workouts, so sweet spot, temp and endurance, to work on my eating strategy, figuring out what works, what does and doesn't cause stomach upset, etc.
Over/unders are surprisingly taxing, but then they are meant to be.
Nothing like a ramp test on a Monday morning post half-term!
281w up to 289w
Onwards we go
@dirtyrider - nice one. 8W is decent step.
Bashful + 1 for me today.
That’s the first workout I’ve had to ease off. I was doing OK until the third interval in the last block then I decided to skip the next one though I did think about skipping all the remainder. I was able to complete the fifth so I skipped the sixth and did the final one. The actual efforts are doable, it’s the very short recoveries that get to me, 60/60 would be fine, 60/30 not so. Looking at my heart rate there’s a slow rise across the workout - low of 116bpm after the first block, 126bpm after the second. There’s similar rises across the blocks of intervals for my highest HR and from about midpoint in the second block I’d be at 95% of my MHR at the end of each interval.
It was only when loading up the workout on the desktop that I noticed that it had an intensity factor of 0.93 and is an anaerobic workout not VO2 max as I'd thought 😰 My last VO2 max workout was Spencer -2 which also has IF = 0.93 and my notes from that start with:
I think VO2 Max efforts are my weak spot, I found that hard.
So yes, confirmed that I do believe.
sick as a dog since Monday lunchtime so not done anything, so frustrating, 3rd time this year I've been ill, been relentless with it being either me the mrs or the kids
anyway,
CAMSUFFERS
gets you a month free Sufferfest if anyone wants a dabble
Does anyone use an android tablet or phone for their sessions? Trying to sort out a split screen display between TR and a racing vid on youtube, say, and can't figure out how to do it.
I thought you could only do split screens on PCs/Laptops? I looked into it for my iPad and it wasn't compatible. I just have TR on my phone and Youtube on tablet.
Plodding through SSB1, skipped yesterdays session as didnt have time but otherwise going quite smoothly. I have no desire to ride outside at the moment so am sticking to the plan largely pretty faithfully.
Long time lurker in this thread.. thought I’d get involved after being inspired by other posts.
Signed up to TR 31st Dec last year to help me get my legs up to speed and get some bike time for a upcoming sprint triathlon.
Previously mainly ridden on mountain bikes not road bikes and being quite time poor TR looked like a great way of getting in a 2 sessions a week around all the normal life stuff.
Not really measured FTP before, did the first ramp test and got 166... I was full of a cold at the time which didn’t help but I stared the base phase and stuck to the plan.
Next FTP test recorded a more accurate FTP of 191 which still isn’t massive but was certainly an ok level for me. The plans have been great so far, I really like the instructions about body positions, breathing and all that stuff because having never really ridden on the road for ages it’s all sensible instructions and helpful info.
Just completed the build phase and completed another ramp test, now sitting at a FTP of 205 which I was pleased about. Specialty phase is next up but overall TR is great for me.. just hope it translates to real life when I start on the real roads!
@rmprest - don't worry about the actual value of FTP, it's more important that you are training at the right level, workouts like Lamarck are a good indicator as are the over/under interval workouts. Some people find that VO2 max workouts are too hard/easy, these assume your VO2 max is 120% or so of your FTP but that might not be the case so you need to adjust them accordingly - if you start the last interval of a VO2 max workout thinking "I'm not sure I can do this" then that's the level you should be at.
I did Bashful +1 last Monday and it was the first workout I'd bailed on as I just couldn't recover in the short 30 second valleys. Yesterday I did Bashful +2 which is supposedly a little harder but I finished it OK with something in the tank.
One thing that's worth doing while on the trainer is practicing your fuelling strategy and finding out what foods and drinks work for you. For instance I can eat chocolate based snacks when doing endurance workouts but not once the intensity rises towards threshold - I then start to get gut rot or gastric distress as it's properly known.
If you are really a data geek then sign up to intervals.icu and let it pull in data. It gets data from Strava so you need to have a Strava account and let TR send the data to Strava and then allow intervals to pull it from there.
after last Mondays ramp test, like within 2/3 hours i felt ruined, fever, sore throat, lasted 4/5 days, still got the back end, come on 2020 give us a break!!
so an enforced week off, and playing catch up, picked back up with Carpathian Peak yesterday, tough, needed some motivational music to get me through the 3rd set, but did it, happy days, in the bank, tomorrow should be Mount Goode, but i don't think i have time to squeeze it in, might do Baxter -2, then Mount Goode on Thursday when i know i can get it done no distractions,
Avalanche Spire +1 Hmm, I'm normally OK with over/unders but this was pushing me a bit. It didn't help that I'd had a late lunch so had eaten a bit of quiche about half an hour before starting - after 45mins I nearly saw it again 😳 The last set was a case of digging in there and holding on.
One more workout (Galena +1) then it's recovery week 😊
Made time, did Mount Goode - that sucker is tough, cracked 6 minutes into interval 3 - paused for a minute and completed it
Winning
First workout failure on Galena +1 today 😰
Held power for the first two intervals OK but starting the last interval my legs just felt dead. Got seven minutes or so into the interval and had to back pedal which is the first time I've had to do that. Then did another minute and a half or so but just struggled so dropped down to the recovery target power for a minute then rather than completely quit I tried again but after a minute called it a day and just rode easily for five or six minutes to cool down.
Not sure what was going on as this is the type of effort that should suit me. There was just nothing in my legs and HR was way up. Sounds like my FTP is about right.