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I did think that so got the spirit level out, all looks to be level. Have got a fair old imbalance in L/R power and leg length, with the left being the weaker side, so probably down to that. Mildly concerned that riding in a wonky position is going to cause me bother at some point.
Stop shoulder checking the competition
If I did Zwift I'd be blaming that!
I don't like the front wheel fixed in place so have put a bit of smooth ply under the wheel, allows a degree of movement with less friction than just straight on to concrete. Whilst won't stop the bars turning might mean that the bars return central more naturally.
I also try and make sure I am not pulling on the bars during intervals, I loosened off the stem bolts for a while so if I put any pressure on them they creaked badly. The game was to keep them silent, sad but kept me amused.
Anyone with a direct drive turbo use something to hold the front wheel straight?
no, but its a pain in the arse pumping up a latex tube just to do a turbo session, forgot the other day and it was bobbing like a nodding dog throughout
Quite pleased, checked my taining calendar from this year and last on Strava and using a turbo and trainerroad this year I've doubled my hours on the bike in January 😀 admittedly its only 28hrs from 14 but still pleased.
Nice work ferrals!
I'm about 10% up this month in terms of TSS compared to last year, but then I had a good Jan last year. September to December though about 50% up on TSS.
A light week coming up though. Picked up the intensity a bit at the beginning of Jan and I'm now knackered, I guess that's job done 😉
latex tube just to do a turbo session
Latex tube on the turbo, bit extravagant that!
Hard-ish week for me this week, hard next and then a recovery week to end s.s. base two, at which point its a month before the start of the season. Two buildy weeks, a mixed build/speciality week and a taper. Then pretty intense racing through april. Cant wait for the season to start!
Cant wait for the season to start!
Know what you mean, though still got quite a while to go till the season starts here, aiming to hit some form around May. Though there is a local crit next weekend that I'm tempted to go have a play at. Might be good timing having put together a nice set of [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/143598-pal-5-x-breaks ]breakaway style efforts[/url] using the workout builder last night 🙂
Pettit (1hr our zone 2/3) for me today as in a taper week (end of SSbase pt1). How people are doing longer lower intensity sessions is beyond me. Hats off to anyone that manages 2 hours of that as after an hour I was bored and wondering if I had the right saddle...
I know what you mean - Pettit is about as much as I can stand of such steady state stuff on the turbo. I find Black is a better low intensity session, feels almost like a road ride in that the power level changes every couple of minutes.
I did Fang Mountain last night, 75 mins but it felt more like 45 as there weren't long blocks at one intensity.
Advice, please, for a TR noob!
I popped my TR cherry last night and, as recommended, started with an FTP test. Now, I've done FTP tests previously on Zwift and I hit ~275W so set this as the initial default for my first TR test.
All was going well during the warm-up period but at the start of the first 'all-out' 5 minute interval TR switched from ERG mode to 'slope' (the on-screen instructions mentioned this).
At this point, all resistance dropped and I had to spin like a hamster on speed to generate worthwhile wattage. In top gear (50x11), my cadence needed to be ~115 to hit 280W. My normal cadence is typically around 75 so this was very unnatural for me. I continued the session but my final FTP was 258 and I was absolutely knackered. Yes, I know that's supposed to happen 😳
I raised a support ticket with TR and they suggested I needed to up the resistance (not 'slope') when doing the 'all-out' segments and then reduce the resistance during the 'rest' periods. I've tried doing this when I'm riding and, frankly, it's a gonna be PITA trying to use a mouse and/or type on-screen with sweat dripping everywhere.
[b]Does anyone have a better solution? Does TR always drop out of ERG mode during all out efforts or is this just something it does during FTP tests?[/b]
For the record, I'm using a Tacx Vector Smart trainer (so full ANT+ FEC interaction with TR is possible) plus a Wahoo Blue SC speed/cadence sensor.
Also for the record, Zwift stays in ERG mode throughout an FTP test so I just get on flogging myself without worrying about technicalities...
I though tr said to use gears to increase resistance? I don't use an erg trainer but just going on what I've seen in past instructions?
Katadhin for me last night, really enjoyed it but right at the end my right knee started killing. A bit worried with lovecrossed on Sunday and 6 weeks till xc season. Nurofen and ice pack time!
^ Much stretching and foam roller on IT band
Can't say I had a problem with 'slope' mode when doing a FTP test on the kickr, just use gears, I'm in the middle of the block on the big ring at around 300w 90cadence. Sounds like it might be a setting on your turbo?
I quite like longer sessions on the turbo, I just watch Amazon prime...
I have yet another cold so another week written off 🙁
I have a Vector Smart too.
It has to switch out of Erg mode for the 8 minutes, otherwise the trainer would simply do the 'target' wattage for the 8 minutes, which means that your FTP estimate at the end would be exactly what it was at the start.
Unless you have a weird set-up (e.g. weird bike, weird tyre pressure, weird clamping force (calibrate with the Tacx app to check)), you should be fine. When in slope mode or whatever it's called, there is a manual resistance adjustment on the screen. Just crank that up until you get a sensible level of resistance. You don't need to put it back afterwards - the trainer will sort it out once it goes back into Erg mode. You shouldn't adjust it during the 8 minutes either - use the gears, you should certainly not need to be in 50x11 at 280W. On my last test I was pushing over 300W just fine and would have been on the big ring at the front, but high-middle at the back I think.
If that doesn't work then I suspect your unit is faulty. You can just have a play with the resistance in slope mode until you find a level that's sensible, and then probably never touch it again.
Also, if Zwift stays in Erg mode during an FTP test then it doesn't mean the same as when TR is in Erg mode. When TR is in Erg mode, it will vary the resistance as your cadence changes so that your wattage stays on target. If you pedal faster then the load gets lighter and the wattage stays the same.
I imagine Zwift sets the resistance (analogous to setting the gradient) like it would during normal riding, but doesn't change it during the test. If Zwift routinely used Erg mode the way that TR did, then you wouldn't really be able to race people as you'd all be putting out the same wattage whatever you did...!
adsh - Member^ Much stretching and foam roller on IT band
wrong side of knee, but been doing that anyway. found some killer knots on the bit of thigh that come down inside of knee which may be a contributing factor
TR must be on a sales drive 🙄 I've another free taster month to hand out to anyone that wants it. (need name and email to generate the referral)
Thanks for the response Gray.
I don't think there's anything wrong with my set up per se. Same bike, same tyre, same pressure etc as used for Tacx app calibration. I also calibrated in Zwift prior to the initial FTP then calibrated again in TR when I switched to TR.
In TR I just paired the Tacx and the cadence sensor (cos I didn't want to take it off the bike). I didn't change any other settings and only noticed the resistance setting in the bottom left corner once the FTP test had started. IIRC, the default was 60% but didn't change as I thought it may invalidate the test.
Anyway, I started in the big ring and about half way across the block, so by the time I had to ramp up the power I only had a couple of ratios to play with.
I'll do a little bit more playing around with the settings before doing another FTP at a more reasonable cadence
I imagine Zwift sets the resistance (analogous to setting the gradient) like it would during normal riding, but doesn't change it during the test. If Zwift routinely used Erg mode the way that TR did, then you wouldn't really be able to race people as you'd all be putting out the same wattage whatever you did...!
You may know this already but Zwift has specific workout modes and the behaviour is very different than just riding around the course. When just riding in ERG mode, the resistance is automatically ramped up/down to reflect virtual gradient. In workout mode, gradient is completely ignored and resistance is ramped up/down based on the workout profile
As a result of simply CBA'd due to the weather this weekend, I did Seneca Rocks yesterday and Hilltop today. Never done two hours on a turbo before but with the regularly changing effort levels in Hilltop it went by surprisingly quickly.
Another week of big sessions then a recovery week, though even that has a total TSS of 255!
A good day today. I'm on a rest week, so it was 3 X 20's at the low end of sweet spot. I decided - I'm new to TT's - to swap bikes and see how long I could stay down low for.
So, the first went well, I felt good and did the whole 20mins "down low". The second 20 was option low cadence with hill transitions so I did that and STILL felt good, so I decided to have a bash at a real TT negative split on the final 20. Granted im starting at 85% for 10mins, then ramped it to FTP for 7 mins, then from there to about 108% to the finish.
Obs my legs ached in a muscular way a bit at the end there, but it felt good and I know I could have gone harder and will with a race head on but 40 mins in position in a negative split is a good start.
2.5 hours of drudgery today with a slight hangover . Good times
I've not really posted on this thread as I've never had much to add/ask but thought I'd tap into what is clearly a huge pool of experience with online training:
I've started properly 'training' for the first time this winter - normally I consider my commute to/from work enough but it always drops in winter so I thought I'd give a more formalised training plan a go.
I initially played with Zwift but they initially didn't have training plans and when they did, there was nothing 'time crunched' so I have been using TrainerRoad which I think I like. I say think because it is hard to get an objective measure to date of how I'm doing (I think).
I did a formal max and submax test at the University of Birmingham (nearby) and was given an FTP of 270. I weigh 74kg. So I started the Low Volume Sweet Spot Base I and it starts with the 8 min test which gave me an FTP of 220. OK so I don't have a power meter but fed the site the full details about my cyclops fluid 2, have the right tyre at the right pressure so thought it would have been closer but... Anyway long story short, I'm now just about to start week 4 of sweet spot II. My FTP doesn't appear to have changed much but I did completely rebuild the turbo bike over christmas so wonder if that changed things enough to throw off the consistency. Given that I want to be able to measure performance and outcome I've decided to invest in a pwoermeter. I've navigated the myriad options to pick the one I want but now....which book?? Cognacs or Friels?
Anyone used both? Before I am irreversibly committed to buying the power meter (currently on backorder) should I rethink my plan to buy one?
Thanks!!!
I have no idea about a lot of what you're saying but from my limited experience , pick one method of measuring performance and stick to it. Don't adjust the turbo , don't use different ftp tests oh and get a fan 🙂
From my simplistic point of view, doesn't matter what your actual power is as long as it is a consistent measure. Which is why I have fallen out with my Kickr, now using a stages to control it, as I use the stages on the road and want it to be the same.
I haven't regretted getting a power meter but I did regret a year or two back getting a bit lost with too much info, I now just follow a relevant trainerroad program on the turbo and have a good feel of what I want to do on the road from these programs.
I would say pick one method and stick with it, I liked Friels but haven't read any other to any extent.
Edit: what he said ^
I find Friel a bit less complicated and a bit more "real life", and his periodisation principle works well for me.
Thanks Krypton. Yeah howsyourdad and rsvktm, I didn't initially have a fan - big mistake that was - I do now. I guess the consistency bit is the key and hence the decision to go for a proper powermeter rather than a computer guess.
I agree. I have no idea whether the FTP trainerroad assigns to me is accurate. However, as all the variables stay the same - the bike is permanently on the turbo, tyre same psi etc, same lump pedalling the thing - it enables comparisons to be made. Going by feel and perceived effort this has proved pretty accurate.
Exactly , the guess is based on the same variables . A powermeter would be nice though!
However, as all the variables stay the same
Depends on the turbo too. My old mag one use to "loosen up" significantly over the course of a session (mostly over the first 30 mins.) Could be two or three gears faster for a given power (based on a proper power meter.) If I was using virtual power I'd be going too hard at the beginning and too easy at the end. My current LeMond turbo using air resistance seems a lot more consistent.
Other benefit of a real PM is that it allows meaningful comparison with outdoor work.
Picked up a new one recently for the turbo bike as my hub one wouldn't work with a direct drive turbo. Got the PowerTap C1 in a sale for a little over 400 quid. Ok, still quite a bit of cash but they're no longer super expensive bits of kit.
Cognacs or Friels?
Assume you mean Coggan? 🙂
Both are worth getting. Friel's books are more around how to build training plans. The Allen and Coggan book is more about how to work with the data you get from a PM. Friel's is more accessible and probably the place to start. The other gets into the real detail of IF, NP, TSS etc and how to work with ATL, CTL and TSB as part of performance management.
Oops - yes, Coggan! The ability to run power both inside and outside is part of the drive to a powermeter.
After fun doing the 20 minute FTP test on Saturday I started a slightly reduced version of the 8 week low volume XC Olympic training plan. Kicked off today with Raymond, which was actually a quite nice 4x 5min 108% FTP intervals. Fairly comfortable which makes me wonder if I didn't try hard enough on the FTP test, but I'll keep it at this level for the next 6 weeks just for consistency.
Going to compress the plan slightly to use it as a buildup to the first of the Midlands XC races at Sherwood Pines which is in 6 weeks time. Will take the first 4 weeks and last 2 weeks of the plan. Then I'll just need to figure out what to do in the 5 week intervals between each race round.
5mins at 108% FTP should not feel "nice" 😆 I find any workout with an IF above 0.80 or so to be hard work, once the IF is 0.85 and above then it starts to be an effort to finish with good form, often it's a grit your teeth and hang in there.
If that was your first FTP test then it's quite likely you didn't try hard enough, early improvements in FTP are often due to becoming better at the test. You can always bump the FTP up in your profile. If the figure is close to what it should be then you'll get the benefit of each workout in the different zones but if it isn't then workouts like over-unders which fluctuate around your FTP will be somewhat pointless.
Edit: You said the 20min FTP test was "fun", was this your first such test and were you using Trainerroad's default 200W FTP level?
While not "nice" they shouldn't be too bad. You'd have done 20 mins at 105% so 5 min efforts at 108% shouldn't be too painful.
... though does depend on the individual. Two people with the same 20 min power are unlikely have the same 5 minute power. Is a bit of a problem with basing efforts of different duration on a percentage of a single value and not a more complete power profile.
5mins at 108% FTP should not feel "nice" I find any workout with an IF above 0.80 or so to be hard work, once the IF is 0.85 and above then it starts to be an effort to finish with good form, often it's a grit your teeth and hang in there.If that was your first FTP test then it's quite likely you didn't try hard enough, early improvements in FTP are often due to becoming better at the test. You can always bump the FTP up in your profile. If the figure is close to what it should be then you'll get the benefit of each workout in the different zones but if it isn't then workouts like over-unders which fluctuate around your FTP will be somewhat pointless.
Edit: You said the 20min FTP test was "fun", was this your first such test and were you using Trainerroad's default 200W FTP level?
Well, nice isn't exactly the right word. I know I've done a workout. I've never really done intervals of any form on a bike before, and coming from doing running intervals, where 5 minute ones are incredibly hard, it didn't feel like the same level of effort.
But then I guess that's the point behind training to power. To work at just the right level, not too easy, not too hard. I'm used to using heart rate for this when running, but I have trouble using heart rate on the bike as the perceived effort is lower.
You're probably right on the test level. I used the default of 200 and it's given me an FTP of 171. I'll see out these 6 weeks on this level, do the first race, have a recovery week and then do another test to re-baseline. It doesn't really matter at the moment getting it right, more just to bring some structure into my bike training given I can't run for the next six months.
Oh, and most importantly, I joined the STW TrainerRoad team.
The FTP tests are a bit odd in how they are presented, in order to maintain/attain the FTP level you need to ride the test, as Mrblobby says, at 105% probably a little higher to allow for variations in your power output. You can adjust the test (or any workout) by using the slider bar in the app. You can always retest in a week or two.
The problem with using HR for training on the bike is that it lags behind your power output so on short intervals you will have finished the interval before your heart rate reaches the target level.
The problem with using HR for training on the bike is that it lags behind your power output so on short intervals you will have finished the interval before your heart rate reaches the target level.
Yes, exactly. When running it's very easier to ramp your HR up and down really quickly, so power is much better suited to a bike.
The FTP tests are a bit odd in how they are presented, in order to maintain/attain the FTP level you need to ride the test, as Mrblobby says, at 105% probably a little higher
Thats what I do riding to 105% for the first half and riding the second as a negative splits as high as I think I can manage for 10, then 5 then 3 then 1 minutes hopefully on an ever increasing scale to death.
I have a couple of questions one and all. I'm coming to the end of my base training, low volume Trad base. Next is of course build. I think I'm going to go for short power build ,as i'll be racing #enduro most , one or two downhills and an 'all mountain' race. Anyhow, i'm thinking about doing mid volume. Is it based only on the time you have available or also your ability to recover/complete it? thanks!
I think it's just based on the time available though the IF drops as you go from low-mid-high in most of the plans which suggests that recovery time is also adjusted.
Trad base? Blimey! I looked at the trad plans and thought I'd struggle with the length and comparative monotony of them.
so perhaps it doesnt matter? like you dont get more out of a higher volumne?
yeah it seems like i have been doing base training since last summer. it is beginning to suck . last sundays 2.5 hours was shhhhhhhh ite
High volume trad base here building to a killer final 3 week block. Week 1 800 tss completed and now the cold/flu that's been doing the rounds is starting to strike 😥
Carpathian Peak for me tonight.
Pushed up the intensity by 2% for the last interval as I didn't feel the effort was quite enough. Whether that's because I've got fitter in the last couple of weeks since I did the FTP test but it might be that that test was my first 20min FTP test so I might not have got it quite right.
missed Tuesdays session due to knee issues, rode outside yesterday, Lamarck this evening for me.
Plotted out my next 6 weeks at lunch, finish off SS base in the next two weeks and then a mix of build and speciality for the following month till my first race.
Anyone fancy critiquing my plan for the build/specialit month(image below)? As much as possible I'll actually ride outside but focussing on mimic the plan with HR and percieved exertion - if I can find my HR monitor that is!
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http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af192/ferral_photo/Plan_zpsnv9g4isk.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Did Lamark last night, didnt find it too bad, was consistantly over my FTP during the intervals. I've upped my FTP from 307 to 310 accordingly (my average over the 4 was 312) no idea if changing by 3watts makes any appreciable differnece. Still after a rest week next week I'll be re testing, also going to up the resistance level on the trainer then.
also going to up the resistance level on the trainer then.
Do you need to? Have you run out of gears? Will change the properties of the turbo and could impact the test results. If you really need to change it I'd do it now and get a few rides in at the new setting before doing any testing.
Looks like a reasonable plan though. That for XC racing? Thing I'd want to add is to do some race pace intervals out on proper XC trails.