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Strava bashing out so called 'calibrated' TrainerRoad efforts of 34-40kmh
? Speed is fairly meaningless on a turbo. I've no idea what you mean by "calibrated" rides either.
Is a bit of a strange post! who cares what training people are doing - as we all know, the only time it counts competitively is between the whistle and the flag.
Jepson for me this morning, I found it hard as tired and pre-brekker, faltered in the third interval and only did 6 of the 8 minutes. Was also way too hot even with french windows open into the freezing pre-dawn. Fan ordered from argos already!
In general I find the trainerver
road warm-ups and warm downs to short so ahve been using work out creator to extend them as i do the work outs, published then as "[name] Longer warm up" or something like that if anyone else finds the same
Is indeed an odd post. TBH I find putting turbo rides on Strava a bit odd, but then I tend to think of Strava as more of a social tool for sharing rides, whereas some others do use the fitness/freshness thing to track their training.
What's that all about?
Well wheel speed is a function of power and the resistance offered by your trainer. Power is a much better measure as the resistance of your trainer isn't a well defined constant. Indeed some trainers have knobs to allow you to vary it, so you can get high wheel speeds for relatively low power. If you're training for riding on the road this is often a favourable set up as having a rapidly spinning flywheel gives the system more energy and more accurately simulates the mechanics of riding on the flat. It's silly to compare wheel speed indoors and outdoors. If anyone is getting an "ego boost" from a high wheel speed on a turbo, or if you think that some is, you're probably both being a bit stupid.
Ferrals, workout creator is brilliant, tweak pretty much everything!
I usually do my own custom workouts on TR but I decided to do Julius Ceaser last night. TSS of 60 odd and an IF of 0.87. I was expecting to feel pretty rough at the end but I was suprisingly chipper...in fact it didnt feel hard at all really.
I suspect I've got a fair bit fitter since my last test so I've booked in for a VO2/lactate test on Wednesday.
I'm hoping to see at least a 20w increase in FTP
TBH I find putting turbo rides on Strava a bit odd
I do this so I have all rides together, makes sense for me, dont want to pay for training peaks as well as TR just to keep everything logged in one place.
I actually find turbo estimated distances more brutal than real world distances. For real world riding I'd been working on 90-120km a week as being a good level depending on mtb v cx etc. 120km of largely turbo is beasting me!
My rides auto sync with strata. I do check out and comment occasionally on buddies turbo sessions too. A bit of rivalry going on about jobs come summer. Just a bit of fun. I find 2hrs on a turbo far harder than 2 hrs on the road for same average power.
I don't have a speed sensor on the turbo anymore now I've gone direct drive so I don't even get speed and distance. Time and TSS are the important numbers.
I suspect I've got a fair bit fitter since my last test so I've booked in for a VO2/lactate test on Wednesday.
Sounds fun 🙂 Where's that done?
You should be able to get them done at most uni's with decent sports dept. I had my last one done at Solent Uni in Southampton (can send you over details if you are local)
May check out Oxford and Reading and see what's done there, bit more local to me. Not too sure I'd want to know my VO2max though, or what benefit there would be. Not a number you can do a huge amount about. And if it came out as a crap number then I think I'd be quite demotivating!
You might be surprised, mine was better than I thought, and I was some way of maxing the HR during the test
Table 3: Results taken at V?O2max
Relative V?O2max (ml·kg·min-1) 65.4
Absolute V?O2max (L·min-1) 4.7
Max heart rate (b·min-1) 194
Work rate at V?O2max (W) 340
RER at V?O2max 1.15
That was summer 2 years ago, after coming back from a broken collar bone / 3 month lay off any serious training and about 3kg heavier than 'race' weight
Be very interesting to see how that's changed over a couple of years.
yes, plan to retest in July.
Having my first son kind of got in the way last summer 🙂
That's it, seen my a..e with the kickr. Been doing short power build and been thinking harder than should be, hadn't checked against stages for a while so changed bikes prior to Fang mountain. Kickr under reading by around 10% no wonder been hard.
Will have a mess with belt tension and calibrate again but think going to have to use the stages to control it in the future. I know the stages is ok as have compared it to my wife's and they are pretty much the same. Might be the push I needed to get a stages for the mtb 🙂
That's it, seen my a..e with the kickr.
Ouch! 10% easily pushes sweetspot over threshold.
Conversely I need a kickr up the arse tonight, tired and can't be bothered. On my own with the kids and they are both full of cold and finding it hard to settle so pretty sure I'm going to have an interrupted session anyway 🙁
Some advice / affirmation please:
I want to kick on and get a bit extra from my week, and am about to start XCO. Usually I'd do the Tuesday and Thursday workouts, then skip the longer weekend workout in favour of a club ride.
I'm thinking - specifically for this plan as the weekend workouts are akin to XCO race efforts in format - of bringing the weekend workout forward to replace Thursday's workout instead, so I get time / fast start long threshold intervals in the bank.
Thoughts?
If I'm feeling good I might also do the shorter Thursday workout Friday PM or Saturday AM and still the club ride on Sunday's.
Edit: Actually may do the Thurs workout (micro intervals) on Tuesday and Saturday workout (hard starts and long intervals) on Thursday would be better.
So Thursday on Tuesday, Saturday on Thursday, Tuesday on Friday or Tuesday on Saturday, then Sunday on Sunday? 🙂
Probably doesn't matter too much, whatever works best for you. They're all similar-ish TSS numbers.
Sure. I guess what I'm saying is that if I move the longer 90 min weekend interval into the week, then I'm being sure of getting a bit more XC specific turbo time into my week, e.g. 2.5 hours rather than than 2hrs.
Another Q: To get more time in I'm thinking of a "commuting" sim - say 30 mins of Kern 30 & Steele alternating fasted pre-breakfast. Is this damaging to the rest days or is it a case of trying it to see if I can cope?
More is better... until it's too much 🙂
Sounds like a reasonable approach. Those two are still fairly high intensity sessions though, intervals above threshold. I'd add something like Birch, bit longer duration, similar TSS, but less intense and fits in with the idea of it being an alternating hard/easy plan. I do something similar one day a week, and then have a complete rest on another day (usually Monday's and Friday's for me.)
mrblobby - MemberMore is better... until it's too much
This is my big issue, when is too much too much? I figure working 9-5 and doing the mid volume it's never going to be too much but i seem to live with constantly mildly aching legs.
I'm thinking about doing a bit of a work out shift this week, racing cross on Sunday so trying to deced on whether just to keep up the sweetspot base (week 4) or tapering with some high intesntiy intervals.
Booked in for a skinfold test on Weds to get a handle on body fat percentage too, should be interesting as I have no idea! But might mean a diet's in order 🙁
This is my big issue, when is too much too much?
Been tracking the parameters for CTL, ATL, and TSB in TrainingPeaks to try and figure this out a bit more scientifically as have struggled with this a bit in the past. Though that doesn't take into account stuff like work stress, lack of sleep, etc.
Less scientifically I try and compare similar sessions, looking at HR trends for same power intervals for indications of fatigue.
I don't think constantly aching legs is a problem.
But might mean a diet's in order
Aren't you about 60kg already?!
Yeah I am, that was kind of in jest, more meant I think I'm nice and lean but might be in for a shock! No idea what a good body fat percentage is for an amateur.
Are you just using the free training peaks software?
No, paying for TrainingPeaks (not too bad with the BC deal.) Just really starting to get to grips with all the values and how it all works. Seems like a good way of keeping track of it all. Also had some coaching with the plan for the past year and it's been very interesting to see how the workload has been managed.
Though TBH the thing that usually destroys my plan and recovery is poor sleep and picking up bugs (both due to our small kids). And usually keeping an eye on HR for power and taking things like RPE, ambient temp, how fatigued I should be feeling based on plan, and comparing it to recent similar sessions, gives me a pretty good indication of whether i all is ok.
Is it a good/bad idea to mix up a program program and general riding?
about to start my Fred Whitton training so looking at the Sustained Power Build - Low Volume. I'll do that on the Kickr but I'd like to get out and get some real miles in the leg, I assume it would really be an issue as long as I dont go mental?
How hard should 85-95% of FTP for 20min (x's 3) feel? Done 3 weeks of Sweet Spot base mid volume and did the above and found it easy, easy enough that I think I've got my FTP wrong.
Did the 8 minute FTP test (first ever) at the start of the 3 weeks and it came out at 250, did a couple of sessions and decided they were too easy so I've bumped it up to 260. During the 85-95% FTP for 20mins my heart rate was only going up to about 115, my max is 188ish.
Planning on just doing another FTP test tomorrow.
@Mrchrispy - I've been listening to the podcasts and they have mentioned lots of time that the weekend rides, especially Sundays, are really there to get more time in on the bike. You'd be fine doing the 2 weekday interval based sessions and then proper outside rides in over the weekend.
You've got to train outside for the Whitton as you need to get used to riding for 8 hours in the rain!
This is how I apporach it, weekday on turbo, weekend on real bike.
When it gets warmer and lighter I aim on roughly following the plans but outside on my commute, not sure how well that will go and it might be that wed and fri I commute and tuees nad thurs i do intervals on the turbo.
@mrblobby, realised that without a power meter on real bike training peaks is less useful. Think keeping an eye on HR is te best idea.
More is better... until it's too much
Each body is different, I've religously tapered for my 'A' events then got my best ever result going into Brighton Big Dog at the end of a 2 week training camp where week 1 was 750TSS and Week 2 was over 1,000TSS. While I won't be taking it to that extreme I will be doing more in my tapers from now on.
How hard should 85-95% of FTP for 20min (x's 3) feel
Like death would be preferable.
3 X 20 at that effort should feel hard but doable in the legs to start, with the third one bordering on the "I don't want to do this but I must" level, and I'd say feeling pretty much spent at then end.
I do the weekend on he bike thing - but I favour club rides whereby people are stronger than me and I get dragged into hard intervals and can't be lazy.
Anyone else find the middle sweetspot intervals more difficult or am I just weird? I generally seem to be in a world of pain from 20ish to 40ish minster and then seem to start to feel much better for the rest. Wondering if a couple of mine warmup and straight into intervals isn't helping.
I too have permanently achy legs...
Ftp test for me tomorrow night then, did do 7 mins at about 320 at the end of a session during the second week so think my first test was not the best
Using virtual power? Sounds like you might have knocked the resistance knob on the turbo!
Its a cyclops fluid 2, there is no resistance knob, just the knob to tighten the drum into the tyre. I always have that at 1.5 turns from the initial contact as in the instructions
Mount Alyeska tonight, surprisingly hard given that I stuck at that power level for 20 solid minutes during the FTP test.
ZOMG got myself a fan ZOMG what a difference.
95% ftp intervals today were a (cooling) breeze!
Haha I got a fan the other day too, can't believe how much difference it makes!
Huffaker for me this evening - found it ok, could hold the three minutes and keep it s bit, but you know the instructions at the beginning where it says you might feel angry? I thought they were joking, till my wife came in, said something innocuous and I totally irrationally lost the plot 😳 😆
Re-did the 8 minute test and got 260 which is what I was at before. Guess the sweet spot base is just not too hard. To be fair I'm comparing it to the time crunched plans, which use heart rate and is not trying to build a base
Maybe you have quite a flat power curve where anything above threshold gets hard quickly? You might be better off trying a 20 min test, might give a more workable value. 3 X 20 sweetspot should leave you feeling like you've had quite a hard session.
Or could be that the power curve just isn't very accurate for your turbo and falls off too steeply at around that sweetspot wheel speed. Can you get a real PM to check it?
ZOMG got myself a fan ZOMG what a difference.
95% ftp intervals today were a (cooling) breeze!
You really need to retest now 🙂
This might be useful - the Coggan test for this is in Trainerroad as a workout, I've done it:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling
This is me:
[i](/) Distinctly upsloping plot (again, esp. between 1 min and 5 min, but also somewhat between 5 min and functional threshold power): the classical time-trialist pattern, i.e., [b]weak in neuromuscular power[/b] and anaerobic capacity, but with a relatively high aerobic power and especially a high lactate threshold. While such athletes may improve their performance by working on their weaknesses, this may not necessarily be true if it results in a decline in their strength, which is sustainable power.
[/i]
The bold bit an issue; I'm very bad at powering up hills.
And, I include this as I have a minor drop between 5 & 20 mins on the profile although not as distinct as this shape, more an upside down tick yet I seem to be able to muster a last gasp finishing sprint:
[i](^) Sharply inverted-V pattern: an athlete characterized by both relatively high anaerobic capacity and aerobic ability, and thus well-suited for events such as the pursuit. Alternatively, a potential "all-rounder" who simply hasn't focused on raising their lactate threshold to its highest possible level.[/i]
And someone asked what sweetspot should feel like - see the table [url= http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-training-levels ]here[/url]
Sweet spot base pt 1 isn't all that "tough". The second part is a bit harder. One thing that I've noticed though is that my cadences this year a higher than last year for the same power which I'm hoping is indicative of great things to come....
Anyone with a direct drive turbo use something to hold the front wheel straight? Noticed a strong tendency for turning the bars to the left since going direct drive and doing away with the riser block.
Stop shoulder checking the competition 😀
Does the turbo have adjustable feet? maybe they aren't level or do you have a wonky floor?
No trouble on my kickr and I've put some fairly hard efforts in.